The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Blackmac]

Fuck it, I'm calling for his head.

I'm done with Townsend.

He has the best generation of players we've had in the professional era.

He's under achieved with them. If Cotter had had the last eight years, we would have won the six nations.

Not sure it's easy to coach stupidity and panic out of players. Absolutely sick of seeing this crowd implode under the slightest of pressure.

Gatland coached it out of the Welsh. In less time than Townshende has had. Let's not forget get how shite they were in the nineties

I spent a career and most of a lifetime working out people's characters, and what I see in a lot of these Scotland players are mentally soft lads. Most of them are only international players by the benefit of being born with the equivalent of the Scottish rugby silver spoon in their mouths. I'm 55 FFS and I look at the likes of Ritchie, Gilchrist. Fagerson etc and see just soft gym monkeys, nothing more. Lads I really wouldn't trust to back me up in a tough situation. I look at a lot of the Welsh lads and I see something completely different.

[topofthemoon]

Not calling for the coaches head or anything but some of this lies squarely on his shoulders.

6/2 bench then waits 70min before using them.

Horne starting which has failed. Steyn continues to be a defensive liability.

We continually give away silly penalties and aren't scoring 60-80 minutes

Fuck it, I'm calling for his head.

I'm done with Townsend.

He has the best generation of players we've had in the professional era.

He's under achieved with them. If Cotter had had the last eight years, we would have won the six nations.

Might be our best generation of players but we've not gone into a Six Nations with anything more than the 3rd or 4th best squad.

Our ceiling was winning the first 4 this year then losing to Ireland in the final round. Or not blowing a big lead v Wales in 2021, then finding some composure to hold on to the draw with Ireland but losing the game to France.

I've come to the conclusion that without some massive slices of luck, no coach is taking us to a title. Which is not to say we shouldn't try some something different but the reality is hitting that some big one off results may be as good as it gets.

[Biffer]

Not calling for the coaches head or anything but some of this lies squarely on his shoulders.

6/2 bench then waits 70min before using them.

Horne starting which has failed. Steyn continues to be a defensive liability.

We continually give away silly penalties and aren't scoring 60-80 minutes

Fuck it, I'm calling for his head.

I'm done with Townsend.

He has the best generation of players we've had in the professional era.

He's under achieved with them. If Cotter had had the last eight years, we would have won the six nations.

Might be our best generation of players but we've not gone into a Six Nations with anything more than the 3rd or 4th best squad.

Our ceiling was winning the first 4 this year then losing to Ireland in the final round. Or not blowing a big lead v Wales in 2021, then finding some composure to hold on to the draw with Ireland but losing the game to France.

I've come to the conclusion that without some massive slices of luck, no coach is taking us to a title. Which is not to say we shouldn't try some something different but the reality is hitting that some big one off results may be as good as it gets.

But that’s kind of the point. Townsend has always taken us to the bottom end of the bracket of acceptable performance. He’s never taken us to the top end of that bracket.

At the end of every six nations, and every World Cup, we’ve come away saying that it was within the bounds of what we would have expected, but at the lower end of it. When did we last come out of a tournament thinking we got ourselves towards the top end of what we might have achieved? Never.

[TheNatalShark]

Having been on the tOonIE ooT bus since the loss to the USA, I honestly just still don't see any material change between now and then. Seemingly every year the new revolution with one of new attack coach, stingy defense, new weapon, etc... and it's just much of the same as the team forgets whatever they were good at last year. We just have a higher talent pools where Tonks isn't being drafted in at fullback. Don't see Townsend leaving before end of next 6 nations.

[Slick]

Fuck it, I'm calling for his head.

I'm done with Townsend.

He has the best generation of players we've had in the professional era.

He's under achieved with them. If Cotter had had the last eight years, we would have won the six nations.

Might be our best generation of players but we've not gone into a Six Nations with anything more than the 3rd or 4th best squad.

Our ceiling was winning the first 4 this year then losing to Ireland in the final round. Or not blowing a big lead v Wales in 2021, then finding some composure to hold on to the draw with Ireland but losing the game to France.

I've come to the conclusion that without some massive slices of luck, no coach is taking us to a title. Which is not to say we shouldn't try some something different but the reality is hitting that some big one off results may be as good as it gets.

But that’s kind of the point. Townsend has always taken us to the bottom end of the bracket of acceptable performance. He’s never taken us to the top end of that bracket.

At the end of every six nations, and every World Cup, we’ve come away saying that it was within the bounds of what we would have expected, but at the lower end of it. When did we last come out of a tournament thinking we got ourselves towards the top end of what we might have achieved? Never.

This is all true

[ASMO]

Honestly i wouldnt be all that down, if anything Scotland is overachieving based on resources.

Only 2 Professional teams

Only just lost to France because of a highly dodgy decision.

Beat England (again)

Beat Wales away

Could beat Ireland who were shown to be vulnerabvle today by England (the team you already beat comfortably)

I would call that not too bad a return.

[clydecloggie]

I firmly believe Italy will win a Six Nations title before we do.

That's all.

[Big D]

I guess it comes down to whether GT/SRU see him as HC at the next WC. If not he should go now.

We look relatively devoid of invention across the team outwith a few plays or Finn kick passing it.

[Biffer]

I guess it comes down to whether GT/SRU see him as HC at the next WC. If not he should go now.

We look relatively devoid of invention across the team outwith a few plays or Finn kick passing it.

Two years left on his contract. A bit of me wonders if he might jump, given he was very much Dodson’s choice, and with Dodson gone there may be a new regime looking for a new direction.

[dpedin]

Guys - for Scotland to win a 6Ns trophy then a lot of stars need to align all at the same time. We have a very small player pool based around only 2 pro clubs and those who qualify and play elsewhere. We dont get an opportunity therefore to develop and look after players and the team the way say Ireland, France or England do - first call on many of our players outside Scotland is their club who pay their wages ie White going back to France last week. We develop players from a very, very small playing base at school level and many leave the game once they hit late teens-early twenties. Scotland is and always will be a football dominated country and getting youngsters to play rugby instead of football and an increasingly number of other sports is very difficult. Against that background most of our managers, like Townsend, have a pretty bare cupboard to pick from and once we pick up a few injuries in key positions are left scrambling around for cover ie TH prop, FB this year. Occasionally we have a core group of excellent players and suddenly we expect to win every game and the 6Ns whereas reality is we have perhaps snuck into the top 4 or 5 in the world. Trying to find the top class players with the skills, pace, physiques and the mental hardness and aggression we want is difficult - watching the u20s I am not sure there are 3 or 4 big 6'4" solid units coming through to play in the back row in 2-3 years time as England, France or indeed Italy have. Sure we can do everything we can to develop the players we have and build the mental hardness others glibly talk about but the reality is Townsend and other coaches inherit what they have to pick from. I for one would be delighted to see a bigger version of a Finlay Calder or a Gary Armstrong type emerge from the u20s and provide the edge and leadership we all want but they are rare beasts. In the interim Townsend is doing probably doing as well as any other manager could do with the crop of players we have. Had the referee call for the try in the last minute of the French game gone the other way and if Horne's try yesterday not been disallowed then perhaps things might be different today but they are the narrowest of calls in todays pro game and both went against us.

[C T]

Oddly not too sad about yesterday's result.

It was a good, close contest. Italy played well and they won. That's sport.

It's the France result that really sticks with me. Not even the no try decision, don't get me wrong, that was ridiculous. I've not watched it back, but I suspect a couple passes and we were in for a guaranteed, no questions asked try. Really should have beaten that French team in Murrayfield.

[Big D]

The lack on invention has also been un Toony like. We have one pattern and that's it. Dalziel hasn't come up with anything clever in the forwards other than catch and drive or off the top. It feels very stale.

England and Wales have shown some plan post world cup whereas in not what our is.

[Biffer]

Guys - for Scotland to win a 6Ns trophy then a lot of stars need to align all at the same time. We have a very small player pool based around only 2 pro clubs and those who qualify and play elsewhere. We dont get an opportunity therefore to develop and look after players and the team the way say Ireland, France or England do - first call on many of our players outside Scotland is their club who pay their wages ie White going back to France last week. We develop players from a very, very small playing base at school level and many leave the game once they hit late teens-early twenties. Scotland is and always will be a football dominated country and getting youngsters to play rugby instead of football and an increasingly number of other sports is very difficult. Against that background most of our managers, like Townsend, have a pretty bare cupboard to pick from and once we pick up a few injuries in key positions are left scrambling around for cover ie TH prop, FB this year. Occasionally we have a core group of excellent players and suddenly we expect to win every game and the 6Ns whereas reality is we have perhaps snuck into the top 4 or 5 in the world. Trying to find the top class players with the skills, pace, physiques and the mental hardness and aggression we want is difficult - watching the u20s I am not sure there are 3 or 4 big 6'4" solid units coming through to play in the back row in 2-3 years time as England, France or indeed Italy have. Sure we can do everything we can to develop the players we have and build the mental hardness others glibly talk about but the reality is Townsend and other coaches inherit what they have to pick from. I for one would be delighted to see a bigger version of a Finlay Calder or a Gary Armstrong type emerge from the u20s and provide the edge and leadership we all want but they are rare beasts. In the interim Townsend is doing probably doing as well as any other manager could do with the crop of players we have. Had the referee call for the try in the last minute of the French game gone the other way and if Horne's try yesterday not been disallowed then perhaps things might be different today but they are the narrowest of calls in todays pro game and both went against us.

The stars aligned this year, with England beating Ireland we just didn’t take advantage by winning two eminently winnable games and letting wales get back up when we knocked them down. It would not have needed stars to align for us to have been on 18 points now, heading to Dublin on the top of the table. Now, yes we would be massive underdogs in that game, but we’d be in it in the last week - and we have a good enough team to be in that position.

That’s where we should be. This campaign is a failure.

[vball]

Nightmare scenario .... we get it together to beat Ireland and then find England beat France and win 6Nations.

[Dogbert]

Nightmare scenario .... we get it together to beat Ireland and then find England beat France and win 6Nations.

In that scenario , we still win the Triple Crown

[vball]

Nightmare scenario .... we get it together to beat Ireland and then find England beat France and win 6Nations.

In that scenario , we still win the Triple Crown

Good call !!

[westport]

Squad update
Ahead of the Ireland match, Glen Young, Hamish Watson and Jamie Bhatti are out of the squad.
Ally Miller has been called up with Alex Samuel and Max Williamson training with the squad.

[Blackmac]

Squad update
Ahead of the Ireland match, Glen Young, Hamish Watson and Jamie Bhatti are out of the squad.
Ally Miller has been called up with Alex Samuel and Max Williamson training with the squad.

Feel sorry for Watson. Seems to have absolutely dropped out of the reckoning which I struggle to understand because I feel that Darge and Ritchie have been completely ineffective for a lot of the campaign.

[Wylie Coyote]

Squad update
Ahead of the Ireland match, Glen Young, Hamish Watson and Jamie Bhatti are out of the squad.
Ally Miller has been called up with Alex Samuel and Max Williamson training with the squad.

Feel sorry for Watson. Seems to have absolutely dropped out of the reckoning which I struggle to understand because I feel that Darge and Ritchie have been completely ineffective for a lot of the campaign.

Watson doesn’t seem in great shape as far as I have seen for Edinburgh. However I watched Aki & Van Der Flier turnover balls on the deck v a very physical English pack and it occurred to me that I don’t recall Darge managing to win a ball on the deck all 6N. I may have missed it but given the generational talent he is claimed to be by some it’s not clear to me why he’d be more likely to make the lions over VDF, Underhill, Morgan/Refell who have all have v big moments this 6N. I’d like to see a big performance from him vs Ireland, not yet another one where Scottish forwards are blown off the ball by the Irish and we fail to win a single turnover all game.

It all comes down to the pack for me, Ireland clearly see our pack as a bunch of pansies, and in previous games we’ve confirmed that by failing to defend any Irish possession 5m from our line and failing to convert any 5m possession of our own. You can set your clock to the fact that Ireland will always, ALWAYS, convert those opportunities vs us, and we will NEVER convert them vs them. Somehow or other, our pack need to find a whole other level of controlled, DISCIPLINED rage to compete. I would frankly be utterly befuddled if they do as it would show a side to them that none of them have shown for club or country.

Selection wise White for Horne, McDowall for Redpath, Redpath on the bench. Rowe for Steyn. Might consider bringing back WP Nel on the bench too.

I predict a repeat of the RWC game. I love this team, such talented players who can play truly beautiful stuff. The problem is fundamentally, too many of them are soft, the slightest pressure and they collapse. Ireland are made of grit, I see precious little of that in our side.

[topofthemoon]

Squad update
Ahead of the Ireland match, Glen Young, Hamish Watson and Jamie Bhatti are out of the squad.
Ally Miller has been called up with Alex Samuel and Max Williamson training with the squad.

Feel sorry for Watson. Seems to have absolutely dropped out of the reckoning which I struggle to understand because I feel that Darge and Ritchie have been completely ineffective for a lot of the campaign.

Watson doesn’t seem in great shape as far as I have seen for Edinburgh. However I watched Aki & Van Der Flier turnover balls on the deck v a very physical English pack and it occurred to me that I don’t recall Dargue managing to win a ball on the deck all 6N. I may have missed it but given the generational talent he is claimed to be by some it’s not clear to me why he’d be more likely to make the lions over VDF, Underhill, Morgan/Refell who have all have v big moments this 6N. I’d like to see a big performance from him vs Ireland, not yet another one where Scottish forwards are blown off the ball by the Irish and we fail to win a single turnover all game.

It all comes down to the pack for me, Ireland clearly see our pack as a bunch of pansies, and in previous games we’ve confirmed that by failing to defend any Irish possession 5m from our line and failing to convert any 5m possession of our own. You can set your clock to the fact that Ireland will always, ALWAYS, convert those opportunities vs us, and we will NEVER convert them vs them. Somehow or other, our pack need to find a whole other level of controlled, DISCIPLINED rage to compete. I would frankly be utterly befuddled if they do as it would show a side to them that none of them have shown for club or country.

Selection wise White for Horne, McDowall for Redpath, Redpath on the bench. Rowe for Steyn. Might consider bringing back WP Nel on the bench too.

I predict a repeat of the RWC game. I love this team, such talented players who can play truly beautiful stuff. The problem is fundamentally, too many of them are soft, the slightest pressure and they collapse. Ireland are made of grit, I see precious little of that in our side.

Darge has the same number of turnovers (2) as Aki in the tournament and more than van der Flier (1). Stats don't appear to include steals on penalty advantage as Darge had at least 2 of those v France in addition to a penalty won (plus a penalty won v Italy).

The only players with more are Alldritt (3), Lucchesi (4), Underhill (4) and Reffell (8). The Welsh 7 has been the clear standout this year with career best form - although I'd say he's been pretty fortunate at times with some refs not seeing hands on the ground on multiple occasions, particularly against Scotland!

[inactionman]

Feel sorry for Watson. Seems to have absolutely dropped out of the reckoning which I struggle to understand because I feel that Darge and Ritchie have been completely ineffective for a lot of the campaign.

Watson doesn’t seem in great shape as far as I have seen for Edinburgh. However I watched Aki & Van Der Flier turnover balls on the deck v a very physical English pack and it occurred to me that I don’t recall Dargue managing to win a ball on the deck all 6N. I may have missed it but given the generational talent he is claimed to be by some it’s not clear to me why he’d be more likely to make the lions over VDF, Underhill, Morgan/Refell who have all have v big moments this 6N. I’d like to see a big performance from him vs Ireland, not yet another one where Scottish forwards are blown off the ball by the Irish and we fail to win a single turnover all game.

It all comes down to the pack for me, Ireland clearly see our pack as a bunch of pansies, and in previous games we’ve confirmed that by failing to defend any Irish possession 5m from our line and failing to convert any 5m possession of our own. You can set your clock to the fact that Ireland will always, ALWAYS, convert those opportunities vs us, and we will NEVER convert them vs them. Somehow or other, our pack need to find a whole other level of controlled, DISCIPLINED rage to compete. I would frankly be utterly befuddled if they do as it would show a side to them that none of them have shown for club or country.

Selection wise White for Horne, McDowall for Redpath, Redpath on the bench. Rowe for Steyn. Might consider bringing back WP Nel on the bench too.

I predict a repeat of the RWC game. I love this team, such talented players who can play truly beautiful stuff. The problem is fundamentally, too many of them are soft, the slightest pressure and they collapse. Ireland are made of grit, I see precious little of that in our side.

Darge has the same number of turnovers (2) as Aki in the tournament and more than van der Flier (1). Stats don't appear to include steals on penalty advantage as Darge had at least 2 of those v France in addition to a penalty won (plus a penalty won v Italy).

The only players with more are Alldritt (3), Lucchesi (4), Underhill (4) and Reffell (8). The Welsh 7 has been the clear standout this year with career best form - although I'd say he's been pretty fortunate at times with some refs not seeing hands on the ground on multiple occasions, particularly against Scotland!

Just on Reffell - I've seen him a fair few times for Leicester and thought he got away with murder, but in his defence he was so quick into position and over the ball that I think refs tended to give a lot more leeway. It's not always necessarily the physicality.

[Slick]

Squad update
Ahead of the Ireland match, Glen Young, Hamish Watson and Jamie Bhatti are out of the squad.
Ally Miller has been called up with Alex Samuel and Max Williamson training with the squad.

Feel sorry for Watson. Seems to have absolutely dropped out of the reckoning which I struggle to understand because I feel that Darge and Ritchie have been completely ineffective for a lot of the campaign.

Watson doesn’t seem in great shape as far as I have seen for Edinburgh. However I watched Aki & Van Der Flier turnover balls on the deck v a very physical English pack and it occurred to me that I don’t recall Dargue managing to win a ball on the deck all 6N. I may have missed it but given the generational talent he is claimed to be by some it’s not clear to me why he’d be more likely to make the lions over VDF, Underhill, Morgan/Refell who have all have v big moments this 6N. I’d like to see a big performance from him vs Ireland, not yet another one where Scottish forwards are blown off the ball by the Irish and we fail to win a single turnover all game.

It all comes down to the pack for me, Ireland clearly see our pack as a bunch of pansies, and in previous games we’ve confirmed that by failing to defend any Irish possession 5m from our line and failing to convert any 5m possession of our own. You can set your clock to the fact that Ireland will always, ALWAYS, convert those opportunities vs us, and we will NEVER convert them vs them. Somehow or other, our pack need to find a whole other level of controlled, DISCIPLINED rage to compete. I would frankly be utterly befuddled if they do as it would show a side to them that none of them have shown for club or country.

Selection wise White for Horne, McDowall for Redpath, Redpath on the bench. Rowe for Steyn. Might consider bringing back WP Nel on the bench too.

I predict a repeat of the RWC game. I love this team, such talented players who can play truly beautiful stuff. The problem is fundamentally, too many of them are soft, the slightest pressure and they collapse. Ireland are made of grit, I see precious little of that in our side.

I think this is a good post.

I think we have to be honest with ourselves, we talk about an incredible generation of players but really it's only a couple of individuals. Our pack is very average when compared to others and you don't win anything with an average pack. In a combined pack from Saturday I'd say only Fagerson stood out for us, I'd take both Italian 2nd rows and all their back row. I think we massively over rate our back row and agree that Darge is good, but he's not the generational talent some will have us believe.

In the backs there is a massive drop off from White, who again is good, but nothing amazing. I wouldn't swap our 10,12,13 for anyone's and it's there that I think we probably do have outstanding Scottish players.

The back 3 is a massive issue for me, they were absolutely awful on Saturday, out of position constantly and defensively no where near the required standard. We can probably afford to have one of those on the pitch and it's got to be Duhan. I think BK is just too much of a luxury if Duhan or Steyn is playing, he was quiet against England without doing too much wrong I guess, but on Saturday he was all over the place and his magic offloads cost us a lot. I'd be starting with Smith or Paterson (I know, one game, but let him play) - they might not have the individual brilliance but are much more reliable elsewhere whilst still bringing something pretty special in attack. That's probably a bit harsh on BK as we all just want him to be the superstar he can be, but we can't play those three, or even Duhan + BK, and expect to winning big games, imo.

[Jock42]

I thought Watson had a couple of very good games for Edinburgh recently, I'd have had him in over Darge this weekend. Not sure the point in bringing in Miller unless they've been told they're just there to train with squad.

Agree back 3 were anonymous, not sure what the answer is here without dropping all 3 though.

[Slick]

I thought Watson had a couple of very good games for Edinburgh recently, I'd have had him in over Darge this weekend. Not sure the point in bringing in Miller unless they've been told they're just there to train with squad.

Agree back 3 were anonymous, not sure what the answer is here without dropping all 3 though.

I think Darcy makes a big difference when he is playing, mops up a lot of mistakes and bad placements from others.

[Big D]

I thought Watson had a couple of very good games for Edinburgh recently, I'd have had him in over Darge this weekend. Not sure the point in bringing in Miller unless they've been told they're just there to train with squad.

Agree back 3 were anonymous, not sure what the answer is here without dropping all 3 though.

Townsend and Horne can create a game plan that isn't "fuck it" Finn or Duhan will do something if the structure off the wee pass of 12 doesn't work.. The number of big 6N games we have won because of Duhan basically "doing something" is ridiculous and masking a lot of creative failures IMO. But for two genuinely world class finishes out of any structure we could be 0-4 (I do accept we could equally be 4-0 too).

They apparently see Kinghorn as an international 10 yet how many times have they used a second receiver? How often do we actually create space for the back 3 in attack?

There were too many defensive break downs for the Italian tries. Off the chips I am not sure who was at fault. It looks like the system on the first one was for Horne and Kinghorn to split the pitch or Kinghorn to stay very wide. Either Horne hasn't got across quick enough or Kinghorn is too wide. At the point the ball is kicked, Horne is in the backfield two defenders in and Kinghorn isn't even in the picture.

The second one is strange too. Kinghorn comes into the line to fill a 10 yard gap between Jones and Steyn and line up on Vintcent who would have had a gaping hole to wander through. There is no sweeper as Horn is marking the blind side 2 rucks before. Not sure if this is a system or player fault or both.

The whole team needs to be better, but despite my complaints of Steyns defence, any more than one back 3 change is window dressing IMO. The bigger issues are the structures inside and up front.

We are looking very stale at a time there should be some vibrancy.

[topofthemoon]

Watson doesn’t seem in great shape as far as I have seen for Edinburgh. However I watched Aki & Van Der Flier turnover balls on the deck v a very physical English pack and it occurred to me that I don’t recall Dargue managing to win a ball on the deck all 6N. I may have missed it but given the generational talent he is claimed to be by some it’s not clear to me why he’d be more likely to make the lions over VDF, Underhill, Morgan/Refell who have all have v big moments this 6N. I’d like to see a big performance from him vs Ireland, not yet another one where Scottish forwards are blown off the ball by the Irish and we fail to win a single turnover all game.

It all comes down to the pack for me, Ireland clearly see our pack as a bunch of pansies, and in previous games we’ve confirmed that by failing to defend any Irish possession 5m from our line and failing to convert any 5m possession of our own. You can set your clock to the fact that Ireland will always, ALWAYS, convert those opportunities vs us, and we will NEVER convert them vs them. Somehow or other, our pack need to find a whole other level of controlled, DISCIPLINED rage to compete. I would frankly be utterly befuddled if they do as it would show a side to them that none of them have shown for club or country.

Selection wise White for Horne, McDowall for Redpath, Redpath on the bench. Rowe for Steyn. Might consider bringing back WP Nel on the bench too.

I predict a repeat of the RWC game. I love this team, such talented players who can play truly beautiful stuff. The problem is fundamentally, too many of them are soft, the slightest pressure and they collapse. Ireland are made of grit, I see precious little of that in our side.

Darge has the same number of turnovers (2) as Aki in the tournament and more than van der Flier (1). Stats don't appear to include steals on penalty advantage as Darge had at least 2 of those v France in addition to a penalty won (plus a penalty won v Italy).

The only players with more are Alldritt (3), Lucchesi (4), Underhill (4) and Reffell (8). The Welsh 7 has been the clear standout this year with career best form - although I'd say he's been pretty fortunate at times with some refs not seeing hands on the ground on multiple occasions, particularly against Scotland!

Just on Reffell - I've seen him a fair few times for Leicester and thought he got away with murder, but in his defence he was so quick into position and over the ball that I think refs tended to give a lot more leeway. It's not always necessarily the physicality.

His positioning is outstanding and he's definitely creating the kind of picture refs seem to reward. Don't know if it's good fortune or smart play but quite often the hand he supports himself on is on the far side from the ref's position so much harder to see.

[Big D]

Reffell is getting on the right side of the ref then playing to the ref. Pretty ideal no.7 play.

[KingBlairhorn]

The lack of posting here I think speaks volumes to how we are all feeling right now, both about the last game and the next game.

[Jock42]

The lack of posting here I think speaks volumes to how we are all feeling right now, both about the last game and the next game.

I was always expecting a loss with this match. I did, however, expect them to still be in real contention. Italy thoroughly deserved their win but it should have been out of their reach but for a 2nd half collapse. I've previously defended the 2nd halves v Wales and France games due to reffing decisions (or blindspots), particularly v France where they managed to get back in it and score. There's now a definitive pattern of 2nd half collapses which need addressed. Use of bench has been very poor too. I've not been as vociferous as previously about changing coaches but I've been on the toony out train for a couple of years now but they need a change. A triple crown maybe buys him time for me but I'd not defend him if he got that and went.

[Tichtheid]

Yeah I was so disappointed in the performance last Saturday, especially after starting so well, that I've deleted the recording and only watched the "highlights" once a couple of days ago.

I said elsewhere that something I picked up from those highlights is that for Italy's first try our systems were brutally exposed. Their scrum half acted as first receiver off the lineout and kicked into space that he knew was going to be there because our fullback was defending in the three-quarter line. That is something the Italian analysts had obviously seen in their prep. The very same thing happened for Lynagh's try, there was space for him to run on to because our fullback was defending with the centres. That is not individual player error, that is a defensive system being out-thought before the game started.

Defence is Tandy's remit.

Schoeman was also very much at fault for the try being chalked off, all he had to do was hold his line and not deviate off it and he would've been fine whilst still creating a barrier to the tackle, he didn't have to knock the man over.

That score would have probably put us out of sight

[Tichtheid]

Summer Tour Fixture List (kick-off times and broadcast information still to be confirmed):

Saturday 6 July: Canada v Scotland, TD Place, Ottawa

Friday 12 July: USA v Scotland, Audi Field, Washington DC

Saturday 20 July: Chile v Scotland, Estadio Nacional, Santiago

Saturday 27 July: Uruguay v Scotland, Estadio Charrúa, Montevideo

[KingBlairhorn]

Yeah I was so disappointed in the performance last Saturday, especially after starting so well, that I've deleted the recording and only watched the "highlights" once a couple of days ago.

I said elsewhere that something I picked up from those highlights is that for Italy's first try our systems were brutally exposed. Their scrum half acted as first receiver off the lineout and kicked into space that he knew was going to be there because our fullback was defending in the three-quarter line. That is something the Italian analysts had obviously seen in their prep. The very same thing happened for Lynagh's try, there was space for him to run on to because our fullback was defending with the centres. That is not individual player error, that is a defensive system being out-thought before the game started.

Defence is Tandy's remit.

Schoeman was also very much at fault for the try being chalked off, all he had to do was hold his line and not deviate off it and he would've been fine whilst still creating a barrier to the tackle, he didn't have to knock the man over.

That score would have probably put us out of sight

I suppose so, but equally the exact line he ran with the exact same outcome happens all the time with no consequence so it seems harsh to say he was 'at fault'.

[Biffer]

Yeah I was so disappointed in the performance last Saturday, especially after starting so well, that I've deleted the recording and only watched the "highlights" once a couple of days ago.

I said elsewhere that something I picked up from those highlights is that for Italy's first try our systems were brutally exposed. Their scrum half acted as first receiver off the lineout and kicked into space that he knew was going to be there because our fullback was defending in the three-quarter line. That is something the Italian analysts had obviously seen in their prep. The very same thing happened for Lynagh's try, there was space for him to run on to because our fullback was defending with the centres. That is not individual player error, that is a defensive system being out-thought before the game started.

Defence is Tandy's remit.

Schoeman was also very much at fault for the try being chalked off, all he had to do was hold his line and not deviate off it and he would've been fine whilst still creating a barrier to the tackle, he didn't have to knock the man over.

That score would have probably put us out of sight

I suppose so, but equally the exact line he ran with the exact same outcome happens all the time with no consequence so it seems harsh to say he was 'at fault'.

Yeah, half or Irelands tries over the last ten years would have been chalked off if that was applied consistently

[KingBlairhorn]

The lack of posting here I think speaks volumes to how we are all feeling right now, both about the last game and the next game.

I was always expecting a loss with this match. I did, however, expect them to still be in real contention. Italy thoroughly deserved their win but it should have been out of their reach but for a 2nd half collapse. I've previously defended the 2nd halves v Wales and France games due to reffing decisions (or blindspots), particularly v France where they managed to get back in it and score. There's now a definitive pattern of 2nd half collapses which need addressed. Use of bench has been very poor too. I've not been as vociferous as previously about changing coaches but I've been on the toony out train for a couple of years now but they need a change. A triple crown maybe buys him time for me but I'd not defend him if he got that and went.

Who would we want? It's probably a bit early for Clarke Laidlaw from the 'Canes so it's going to have to be a foreign coach. Who is high enough profile/successful enough but would also come to us? Looking at successful club coaches, Cullen will be lined up for the Ireland job (and wouldn't leave Leinster for us anyway), Rowntree will be looking for a big English job, none of the coaches working at English clubs excite me (assuming Exeter and Saracens are out), Lancaster wouldn't leave Racing for us and will harbour England ambitions, Bortolami will be looking at the Italy job, Rob Penney probably holding out for a pop at the NZ job. I struggle to see who, at the top end, we could conceivably get, and I certainly don't want to see Glasgow lose their coach to Scotland.

[topofthemoon]

Match preview part 1 for Ireland v Scotland:

- trying to avoid 10 in a row;
- scoreboard dominance;
- previous history with referee, Matthew Carley.

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... aviva-run/

[Slick]

Yeah I was so disappointed in the performance last Saturday, especially after starting so well, that I've deleted the recording and only watched the "highlights" once a couple of days ago.

I said elsewhere that something I picked up from those highlights is that for Italy's first try our systems were brutally exposed. Their scrum half acted as first receiver off the lineout and kicked into space that he knew was going to be there because our fullback was defending in the three-quarter line. That is something the Italian analysts had obviously seen in their prep. The very same thing happened for Lynagh's try, there was space for him to run on to because our fullback was defending with the centres. That is not individual player error, that is a defensive system being out-thought before the game started.

Defence is Tandy's remit.

Schoeman was also very much at fault for the try being chalked off, all he had to do was hold his line and not deviate off it and he would've been fine whilst still creating a barrier to the tackle, he didn't have to knock the man over.

That score would have probably put us out of sight

I don't think you can say that with any authority to be honest. I don't recall us defending like that before, so it would mean a completely different system for the Italy game which doesn't seem right. I'm not necessarily blaming one individual as all 3, particularly VDM and BK, have a quite well documented tendency to drift out of position and lose concentration. What the issue with those 3 playing together is that none of them have the guile, seemingly, to dig themselves out of the hole they create. Hogg was brilliant at marshalling the defence, Darcy is great at covering and seeing what is happening, Ollie Smith just doesn't get dragged about like that. Ben White is also a brilliant defensive reader and was missed clearing up.

When Paterson started against France he had Finn dropping back all the time to help him, that didn't seem to be the case on Saturday, I guess because they didn't think they needed it.

[Slick]

The lack of posting here I think speaks volumes to how we are all feeling right now, both about the last game and the next game.

I was always expecting a loss with this match. I did, however, expect them to still be in real contention. Italy thoroughly deserved their win but it should have been out of their reach but for a 2nd half collapse. I've previously defended the 2nd halves v Wales and France games due to reffing decisions (or blindspots), particularly v France where they managed to get back in it and score. There's now a definitive pattern of 2nd half collapses which need addressed. Use of bench has been very poor too. I've not been as vociferous as previously about changing coaches but I've been on the toony out train for a couple of years now but they need a change. A triple crown maybe buys him time for me but I'd not defend him if he got that and went.

Who would we want? It's probably a bit early for Clarke Laidlaw from the 'Canes so it's going to have to be a foreign coach. Who is high enough profile/successful enough but would also come to us? Looking at successful club coaches, Cullen will be lined up for the Ireland job (and wouldn't leave Leinster for us anyway), Rowntree will be looking for a big English job, none of the coaches working at English clubs excite me (assuming Exeter and Saracens are out), Lancaster wouldn't leave Racing for us and will harbour England ambitions, Bortolami will be looking at the Italy job, Rob Penney probably holding out for a pop at the NZ job. I struggle to see who, at the top end, we could conceivably get, and I certainly don't want to see Glasgow lose their coach to Scotland.

ROG?

[KingBlairhorn]

I was always expecting a loss with this match. I did, however, expect them to still be in real contention. Italy thoroughly deserved their win but it should have been out of their reach but for a 2nd half collapse. I've previously defended the 2nd halves v Wales and France games due to reffing decisions (or blindspots), particularly v France where they managed to get back in it and score. There's now a definitive pattern of 2nd half collapses which need addressed. Use of bench has been very poor too. I've not been as vociferous as previously about changing coaches but I've been on the toony out train for a couple of years now but they need a change. A triple crown maybe buys him time for me but I'd not defend him if he got that and went.

Who would we want? It's probably a bit early for Clarke Laidlaw from the 'Canes so it's going to have to be a foreign coach. Who is high enough profile/successful enough but would also come to us? Looking at successful club coaches, Cullen will be lined up for the Ireland job (and wouldn't leave Leinster for us anyway), Rowntree will be looking for a big English job, none of the coaches working at English clubs excite me (assuming Exeter and Saracens are out), Lancaster wouldn't leave Racing for us and will harbour England ambitions, Bortolami will be looking at the Italy job, Rob Penney probably holding out for a pop at the NZ job. I struggle to see who, at the top end, we could conceivably get, and I certainly don't want to see Glasgow lose their coach to Scotland.

ROG?

He turned down England in the summer there so I'd very much doubt it. I can't imagine we can pay what England do, and the chances of England competing to win things in any given year is higher. Now that Sexton is gone from Ireland maybe he'd be interested in that gig?

[SaintK]

Who would we want? It's probably a bit early for Clarke Laidlaw from the 'Canes so it's going to have to be a foreign coach. Who is high enough profile/successful enough but would also come to us? Looking at successful club coaches, Cullen will be lined up for the Ireland job (and wouldn't leave Leinster for us anyway), Rowntree will be looking for a big English job, none of the coaches working at English clubs excite me (assuming Exeter and Saracens are out), Lancaster wouldn't leave Racing for us and will harbour England ambitions, Bortolami will be looking at the Italy job, Rob Penney probably holding out for a pop at the NZ job. I struggle to see who, at the top end, we could conceivably get, and I certainly don't want to see Glasgow lose their coach to Scotland.

ROG?

He turned down England in the summer there so I'd very much doubt it. I can't imagine we can pay what England do, and the chances of England competing to win things in any given year is higher. Now that Sexton is gone from Ireland maybe he'd be interested in that gig?

Appreciate that there are only 2 pro teams in Scotland but why aren't there any other Scottish coaches available out there?

[Tichtheid]

Yeah I was so disappointed in the performance last Saturday, especially after starting so well, that I've deleted the recording and only watched the "highlights" once a couple of days ago.

I said elsewhere that something I picked up from those highlights is that for Italy's first try our systems were brutally exposed. Their scrum half acted as first receiver off the lineout and kicked into space that he knew was going to be there because our fullback was defending in the three-quarter line. That is something the Italian analysts had obviously seen in their prep. The very same thing happened for Lynagh's try, there was space for him to run on to because our fullback was defending with the centres. That is not individual player error, that is a defensive system being out-thought before the game started.

Defence is Tandy's remit.

Schoeman was also very much at fault for the try being chalked off, all he had to do was hold his line and not deviate off it and he would've been fine whilst still creating a barrier to the tackle, he didn't have to knock the man over.

That score would have probably put us out of sight

I don't think you can say that with any authority to be honest. I don't recall us defending like that before, so it would mean a completely different system for the Italy game which doesn't seem right. I'm not necessarily blaming one individual as all 3, particularly VDM and BK, have a quite well documented tendency to drift out of position and lose concentration. What the issue with those 3 playing together is that none of them have the guile, seemingly, to dig themselves out of the hole they create. Hogg was brilliant at marshalling the defence, Darcy is great at covering and seeing what is happening, Ollie Smith just doesn't get dragged about like that. Ben White is also a brilliant defensive reader and was missed clearing up.

When Paterson started against France he had Finn dropping back all the time to help him, that didn't seem to be the case on Saturday, I guess because they didn't think they needed it.

The Italian attack off that lineout for their first try was novel, the scrum half played first receiver off the lineout maul and kicked it to a very specific area for his runners to chase - that didn't just happen out of thin air. Horne was sweeping across but the kick was so good he didn't have much of a chance against the two Italian runners who knew exactly where to be.

The Lynagh try looks similar to me in that it looked like Garbisi timed it perfectly, because I think the first one was a very well executed plan I also think he knew where the space would be from that attack, he only needed to glance up to see if it was on. No one stepped out to create a dogleg in the Scottish defence, the numbers were matched up but Garbisi knew how to unlock it

On Schoeman, if he hadn't knocked his man over he would have been okay.