6 Nations round 5 - France v England

[npradmin]

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Teams TBA

[Uncle fester]

Should be a good game.
Both teams returning to form.

[Uncle fester]

[Sandstorm]

20:00 kick off on Saturday. 2 more Test matches during the afternoon.
My poor liver.

[Marylandolorian]

Should be an other cracking weekend

France will have the same team that played Wales

[Paddington Bear]

Bit of an acid test this one. France missing some key men and have been average at best all tour ament. Going away there is never easy, but if we really have properly turned the corner, and have any hope of a decent summer/autumn, we need to win this one.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't think we need to win, but we do need to show a continued attempt to play alongside a sensible shape. Losing Feyi-Wabso will hurt, we cannot likely replicate turning a defence and yak yards like that

Interesting as what worked in large part against Ireland was the power aspect to our game, and does it remain the case that France alongside SA are just two sides we fall short of on the power front and with that removed we've back to struggling

[Ovals]

Bit of an acid test this one. France missing some key men and have been average at best all tour ament. Going away there is never easy, but if we really have properly turned the corner, and have any hope of a decent summer/autumn, we need to win this one.

I think the performance is more important than the result in France. We shouldn't expect progress to be completely linear but I'd hope that we can show that we've definitely moved in the right direction. Losing Wabosi is a huge loss - probably unrealistic to bring in a new face there, who hasn't got experience of the defensive system - so it'll likely be Daly again.

Should be an interesting contest.

[Slick]

Bit of an acid test this one. France missing some key men and have been average at best all tour ament. Going away there is never easy, but if we really have properly turned the corner, and have any hope of a decent summer/autumn, we need to win this one.

I think the performance is more important than the result in France. We shouldn't expect progress to be completely linear but I'd hope that we can show that we've definitely moved in the right direction. Losing Wabosi is a huge loss - probably unrealistic to bring in a new face there, who hasn't got experience of the defensive system - so it'll likely be Daly again.

Should be an interesting contest.

Amazing that the guy who has played a handful of pro games and no one had heard of 6 months ago is already a huge loss. I agree by the way

[Ovals]

I don't think we need to win, but we do need to show a continued attempt to play alongside a sensible shape. Losing Feyi-Wabso will hurt, we cannot likely replicate turning a defence and yak yards like that

Interesting as what worked in large part against Ireland was the power aspect to our game, and does it remain the case that France alongside SA are just two sides we fall short of on the power front and with that removed we've back to struggling

Yep - France pose a very different set of problems than Ireland. However, their win in Wales eventually came down to overpowering them in the last 15 - with the Welsh subs unable to cope. England should be able to manage that period better - they are stronger and fitter than the Welsh side with bigger units on the bench (but a shame CCS isn't available).

Managing the French threats out wide, will be a challenge !!

[Ovals]

Bit of an acid test this one. France missing some key men and have been average at best all tour ament. Going away there is never easy, but if we really have properly turned the corner, and have any hope of a decent summer/autumn, we need to win this one.

I think the performance is more important than the result in France. We shouldn't expect progress to be completely linear but I'd hope that we can show that we've definitely moved in the right direction. Losing Wabosi is a huge loss - probably unrealistic to bring in a new face there, who hasn't got experience of the defensive system - so it'll likely be Daly again.

Should be an interesting contest.

Amazing that the guy who has played a handful of pro games and no one had heard of 6 months ago is already a huge loss. I agree by the way

He wouldn't be such a loss if we'd got one of our other quick wingers involved (rather than Daly).

[inactionman]

I've had restless nights with images going through my mind of Steward on the wing.

Is Roebuck still in the training squad? As above, I recognise that we can't just be dumping debutants into Test matches like these, so can't see him getting the nod.

[JM2K6]

Aye, if his loss meant a chance for Roebuck or Murley or whoever then we would be excited to see what happens.

Anyway have to agree that performance and intent matters the most here. It's a tricky one but I do believe our traditional kicking game will just invite France to throw massive mutants at us, which is not what we want, and a faster game will stress them more. But it's entirely possible that bombing their back 3 and preventing them getting any momentum might actually work, so if we do kick it more and it's successful then all I ask is that we seek to use the ball with intent once we have the territory and possession.

France will be a huge challenge and as long as we're obviously trying to build on the Ireland performance then that's great. We are likely to lose because despite their piss poor form, this France side playing somewhere near their best is better than this England side playing somewhere near their best.

[Sandstorm]

Daly going to mark Penoud? Poor bastard....

[Slick]

It happens so often in the 6N that a team that pulls out an incredible performance against the odds one week seem utterly drained for the week after. But this French side could easily implode as well. Interesting game.

[Ovals]

It happens so often in the 6N that a team that pulls out an incredible performance against the odds one week seem utterly drained for the week after. But this French side could easily implode as well. Interesting game.

If we can get our kicking right - and really execute our rush defence well - I could see the French players getting very frustrated. We'll also need to keep our discipline - absolute minimum penalties.

[petej]

I've had restless nights with images going through my mind of Steward on the wing.

Is Roebuck still in the training squad? As above, I recognise that we can't just be dumping debutants into Test matches like these, so can't see him getting the nod.

I would be happier with Steward than daly

[Lobby]

I don't think we need to win, but we do need to show a continued attempt to play alongside a sensible shape. Losing Feyi-Wabso will hurt, we cannot likely replicate turning a defence and yak yards like that

Interesting as what worked in large part against Ireland was the power aspect to our game, and does it remain the case that France alongside SA are just two sides we fall short of on the power front and with that removed we've back to struggling

Yep - France pose a very different set of problems than Ireland. However, their win in Wales eventually came down to overpowering them in the last 15 - with the Welsh subs unable to cope. England should be able to manage that period better - they are stronger and fitter than the Welsh side with bigger units on the bench (but a shame CCS isn't available).

Managing the French threats out wide, will be a challenge !!

France also had surprising defensive issues in the 1st half with Ramos performing his best Garbajosa tribute act when called on to tackle anyone. France's answer to this was to keep Wales pinned down in their own 22 for almost all of the 2nd half, a strategy that Wales seemed all too complicit in.

If we can keep the likes of Genge, Chessum and Martin charging at Ramos for more than just the first 40 minutes, we might have a chance.

[laurent]

The team

[Marylandolorian]

Yep - France pose a very different set of problems than Ireland. However, their win in Wales eventually came down to overpowering them in the last 15 - with the Welsh subs unable to cope. England should be able to manage that period better - they are stronger and fitter than the Welsh side with bigger units on the bench (but a shame CCS isn't available).

Managing the French threats out wide, will be a challenge !!

France also had surprising defensive issues in the 1st half with Ramos performing his best Garbajosa tribute act when called on to tackle anyone. France's answer to this was to keep Wales pinned down in their own 22 for almost all of the 2nd half, a strategy that Wales seemed all too complicit in.

If we can keep the likes of Genge, Chessum and Martin charging at Ramos for more than just the first 40 minutes, we might have a chance.

Yep, France’s two main weaknesses are Ramos defense plus Bielle-Biarrey (11) and Penaud on high balls.

[ASMO]

England side to face France...

15. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
14. Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 7 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 61 caps)
12. Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
11. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 68 caps)
10. George Ford (Sale Sharks, 95 caps) – vice captain
9. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
1. Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 61 caps) – vice captain
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 89 caps) – captain
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 111 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 80 caps) – vice captain
5. George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 11 caps)
6. Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 34 caps)
8. Ben Earl (Saracens, 29 caps)

Replacements: 16. Theo Dan (Saracens, 11 caps) 17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 92 caps) 18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 37 caps) 19. Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps) 20. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 16 caps) 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 100 caps) 22. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 31 caps) 23. Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 59 caps)


Daly....fucking DALY!!!!!...and Tuilagi

[Ovals]

England side to face France...

15. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
14. Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 7 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 61 caps)
12. Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
11. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 68 caps)
10. George Ford (Sale Sharks, 95 caps) – vice captain
9. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
1. Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 61 caps) – vice captain
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 89 caps) – captain
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 111 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 80 caps) – vice captain
5. George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 11 caps)
6. Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 34 caps)
8. Ben Earl (Saracens, 29 caps)

Replacements: 16. Theo Dan (Saracens, 11 caps) 17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 92 caps) 18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 37 caps) 19. Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps) 20. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 16 caps) 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 100 caps) 22. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 31 caps) 23. Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 59 caps)


Daly....fucking DALY!!!!!...and Tuilagi

We really need to get beyond Daly, Care and Tuilagi. Hopefully this will be the last we see of them.

[inactionman]

England side to face France...

15. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
14. Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 7 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 61 caps)
12. Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
11. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 68 caps)
10. George Ford (Sale Sharks, 95 caps) – vice captain
9. Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
1. Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 61 caps) – vice captain
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 89 caps) – captain
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 111 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 80 caps) – vice captain
5. George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 11 caps)
6. Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 34 caps)
8. Ben Earl (Saracens, 29 caps)

Replacements: 16. Theo Dan (Saracens, 11 caps) 17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 92 caps) 18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 37 caps) 19. Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps) 20. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 16 caps) 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 100 caps) 22. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 31 caps) 23. Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 59 caps)


Daly....fucking DALY!!!!!...and Tuilagi

We really need to get beyond Daly, Care and Tuilagi. Hopefully this will be the last we see of them.

I suppose one of the additional benefits of Chessum at 6 is we can have 2 back rows on the bench as he can drop into Lock if needed.

Ben Earl has been mint but I think some of the faster running rugby would be in Dombrandt's sweet spot as well.

[el capitan]

Yeah, Daly and Tuilagi just feels underwhelming. I know much has been made of the change in intent, but for me a lot of the difference as the tournament has gone on is selection getting a better mix of the raw ingredients. We've managed to get a bit more in terms of big slabs of meat in the engine room, genuine carrier options who can dent the line, and some actual pace in the backs/wider channels. Those two just feel so stale and boring.

[Plim]

Right, life in my hands, I’m going to make a case for Daly.

He’s not a top speed winger, but he’s quick enough. And big enough. His defence is at least adequate.

And he does have a powerful boot on him for long distance pens. Yes, he missed the one against Ireland (though easily got the distance) but let’s be honest, those kicks are 50/50s and the threat of a punt from halfway is a decent worry for the other side.

He’s also experienced.

If England can continue a decent power display, linkage between forwards and backs and liveliness in attack I can see that Daly might prove a useful inclusion on the wing.

England will lose, I’m more or less sure of that. But a good, well coordinated showing will be enough.

[Ovals]

Right, life in my hands, I’m going to make a case for Daly.

He’s not a top speed winger, but he’s quick enough. And big enough. His defence is at least adequate.

And he does have a powerful boot on him for long distance pens. Yes, he missed the one against Ireland (though easily got the distance) but let’s be honest, those kicks are 50/50s and the threat of a punt from halfway is a decent worry for the other side.

He’s also experienced.

If England can continue a decent power display, linkage between forwards and backs and liveliness in attack I can see that Daly might prove a useful inclusion on the wing.

England will lose, I’m more or less sure of that. But a good, well coordinated showing will be enough.

He's also the only one with real experience of the systems we've been using - there was no way they were going to bring in someone new. Bit surprised that Tuilagi is on the bench though - would have preferred another winger.

[geordie_6]

Right, life in my hands, I’m going to make a case for Daly.

He’s not a top speed winger, but he’s quick enough. And big enough. His defence is at least adequate.

And he does have a powerful boot on him for long distance pens. Yes, he missed the one against Ireland (though easily got the distance) but let’s be honest, those kicks are 50/50s and the threat of a punt from halfway is a decent worry for the other side.

He’s also experienced.

If England can continue a decent power display, linkage between forwards and backs and liveliness in attack I can see that Daly might prove a useful inclusion on the wing.

England will lose, I’m more or less sure of that. But a good, well coordinated showing will be enough.

He's also the only one with real experience of the systems we've been using - there was no way they were going to bring in someone new. Bit surprised that Tuilagi is on the bench though - would have preferred another winger.

Part me genuinely wonders if Tuliagi is, in part, a 'farewell" cap. He's looking likely to be off to France/Japan, meaning this would be the last available England game.

Would be a ludicrous selection process ofc...

[sockwithaticket]

It's entirely possible that he might have an explosive 15 - 20 minutes off the bench left in him at this point.

[JM2K6]

Someone has suggested he's replacing the carrying that CCS was doing, which isn't a bad shout.

Daly has looked incredibly slow the few times we've seen him in space, seems to have struggled with the defensive system, and has made some stupid errors. But he's chased kicks well.

[Paddington Bear]

It happens so often in the 6N that a team that pulls out an incredible performance against the odds one week seem utterly drained for the week after. But this French side could easily implode as well. Interesting game.

Yeah this is the real question, if Borthwick has turned a corner that was not a cup final. We’ve bigged up our fitness and improvement, time to see it in action. Not concerned if we lose to some Penaud magic, but we do need to put them under proper pressure. Last Saturday didn’t feel like a fluke but we’ll see

[Paddington Bear]

Last game of the 6N, 8 week camp, Borthwick was always going to pick Daly who’s been in camp the whole time and knows the system. Likely the last time we’ll see Tuilagi in an England shirt. Not been the force he was but my god he’s given us some good memories and has poured everything into the shirt.

[Slick]

Right, life in my hands, I’m going to make a case for Daly.

He’s not a top speed winger, but he’s quick enough. And big enough. His defence is at least adequate.

And he does have a powerful boot on him for long distance pens. Yes, he missed the one against Ireland (though easily got the distance) but let’s be honest, those kicks are 50/50s and the threat of a punt from halfway is a decent worry for the other side.

He’s also experienced.

If England can continue a decent power display, linkage between forwards and backs and liveliness in attack I can see that Daly might prove a useful inclusion on the wing.

England will lose, I’m more or less sure of that. But a good, well coordinated showing will be enough.

He's also the only one with real experience of the systems we've been using - there was no way they were going to bring in someone new. Bit surprised that Tuilagi is on the bench though - would have preferred another winger.

Part me genuinely wonders if Tuliagi is, in part, a 'farewell" cap. He's looking likely to be off to France/Japan, meaning this would be the last available England game.

Would be a ludicrous selection process ofc...

That was certainly the suggestion in The Times yesterday. Find it hard to believe really.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Last game of the 6N, 8 week camp, Borthwick was always going to pick Daly who’s been in camp the whole time and knows the system. Likely the last time we’ll see Tuilagi in an England shirt. Not been the force he was but my god he’s given us some good memories and has poured everything into the shirt.

But it's not like the squad has been foisted on Borthwick, he's picking from what he wanted.

[SaintK]

France by 9

[Lobby]

Its a great shame that France have finally realised that Le Garrec is their best back up to Dupont. As he showed against Wales, a France with him at 9 is much more dangerous than one with Lucu.

[Hal Jordan]

I looked it up, Daly hasn't successfully slotted a Long Range Big Bertha since 2021 for England. It's not something anyone should be afraid of.

[Plim]

I looked it up, Daly hasn't successfully slotted a Long Range Big Bertha since 2021 for England. It's not something anyone should be afraid of.

How many attempts? And when and where?

He was reasonably close against Ireland: a little less pull on the kick and over that distance he'd have scored. Fine margins.

[Hal Jordan]

No idea, but the fact remains he hasn't managed it in the occasions he's had the chance in 3 years, and no one e is afraid if any of his other characteristics at this stage. Whatever pace he had is gone, he's still clever but that's not good enough for Test rugby by itself.

For this match I see why he's picked, but going forward him and Care definitely need to be gone.

[Plim]

No idea, but the fact remains he hasn't managed it in the occasions he's had the chance in 3 years, and no one e is afraid if any of his other characteristics at this stage. Whatever pace he had is gone, he's still clever but that's not good enough for Test rugby by itself.

For this match I see why he's picked, but going forward him and Care definitely need to be gone.

Agreed. One or two others need ash canning too.

I would fucking love it if Daly went out with a try and a 50m pen in an away win against France though.

The win is probably wishful thinking. But a last hurrah for Daly is quite possible. He’s done decent service. Unlike my boiler.

[Paddington Bear]

IIRC his test kicking % hovers at around 50%, which from this distances he kicks from is pretty good. One more would be nice