Calculon wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:35 amOh FFS, it literally takes three seconds to do an internet search that comes up with hundreds of results. If you were interested in reading about the increase in antisemitism in your own country, you would have done so. The fact that you dismiss it as not a "real issue" says it all.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 12:30 am
No, that's not what I meant, only an idiot would think that if I oppose crimes against one section of the world populace I support crimes against another - that should not be a difficult thing to understand.
I'm very open to reading about that very specific number, so please provide the source, I am not doubting it before reading it, I'm really not.
For the record, if there was one incident of hate crime on a march and at the next one there was 12, that would count as a 1100% increase
.SpoilerShowwith 533 hate incidents – including 19 physical assaults – recorded from 7 October to 20 October, in increase of 651% compared with the same period last year.
Of the incidents, 31 were attacks on Jewish property. Three-quarters were online, including threats; 35 were at schools and 45 at universities.
The Union of Jewish Students said some young people had stopped wearing items that may identify them as being Jewish, while others had received death threats and virulent antisemitic abuse
This was in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas atrocities, even before the invasion of Gaza that is now used as an excuse.
The fact that 90% of Jews are too scared to go into London when these marches are taking place will also no doubt be dismissed as them being irrational. Instead, everyone has to support ceasefire to stop a fake genocide against a population of whom 70% support Hamas. Otherwise they are bad people.
Unfortunately for those posters who don't believe Israel has a right to exist, the rise in antisemitism in the West has brought home to many Jews the importance of having their own State, meaing more financial support and more people considering making aliyah
Kicking off in Israel
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Usually yep
Calculon wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:35 amOh FFS, it literally takes three seconds to do an internet search that comes up with hundreds of results. If you were interested in reading about the increase in antisemitism in your own country, you would have done so. The fact that you dismiss it as not a "real issue" says it all.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 12:30 am
No, that's not what I meant, only an idiot would think that if I oppose crimes against one section of the world populace I support crimes against another - that should not be a difficult thing to understand.
I'm very open to reading about that very specific number, so please provide the source, I am not doubting it before reading it, I'm really not.
For the record, if there was one incident of hate crime on a march and at the next one there was 12, that would count as a 1100% increase
.SpoilerShowwith 533 hate incidents – including 19 physical assaults – recorded from 7 October to 20 October, in increase of 651% compared with the same period last year.
Of the incidents, 31 were attacks on Jewish property. Three-quarters were online, including threats; 35 were at schools and 45 at universities.
The Union of Jewish Students said some young people had stopped wearing items that may identify them as being Jewish, while others had received death threats and virulent antisemitic abuse
This was in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas atrocities, even before the invasion of Gaza that is now used as an excuse.
The fact that 90% of Jews are too scared to go into London when these marches are taking place will also no doubt be dismissed as them being irrational. Instead, everyone has to support ceasefire to stop a fake genocide against a population of whom 70% support Hamas. Otherwise they are bad people.
Unfortunately for those posters who don't believe Israel has a right to exist, the rise in antisemitism in the West has brought home to many Jews the importance of having their own State, meaing more financial support and more people considering making aliyah
You’re making stuff up again. Not one person here has questioned Israel’s right to exist. Earlier in this thread I talked about how horrific it is that a Jewish school in north London does live shooter drills, American style, and how the kids are told to not wear anything that identifies them as Jewish, including school bags.
Having said that, I think it takes a very specific mindset to deflect from the very real famine in Gaza and the tens of thousands and counting who have been killed there and focus on some comparatively low level incidents on marches and online threats.
No one in London is living in a tented refugee camp in their own country, having seen family members killed or had to leave them behind under rubble.
Last edited by Tichtheid on Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
I’m sorry for calling you a pikey. I won’t do it again.
You are a filthy bogan scrote.
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See, it is possible to heap vulgar abuse on somebody who richly deserves it without making invidious generalisations on whole groups of people
Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:11 amCalculon wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:35 amOh FFS, it literally takes three seconds to do an internet search that comes up with hundreds of results. If you were interested in reading about the increase in antisemitism in your own country, you would have done so. The fact that you dismiss it as not a "real issue" says it all.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 12:30 am
No, that's not what I meant, only an idiot would think that if I oppose crimes against one section of the world populace I support crimes against another - that should not be a difficult thing to understand.
I'm very open to reading about that very specific number, so please provide the source, I am not doubting it before reading it, I'm really not.
For the record, if there was one incident of hate crime on a march and at the next one there was 12, that would count as a 1100% increase
.SpoilerShowwith 533 hate incidents – including 19 physical assaults – recorded from 7 October to 20 October, in increase of 651% compared with the same period last year.
Of the incidents, 31 were attacks on Jewish property. Three-quarters were online, including threats; 35 were at schools and 45 at universities.
The Union of Jewish Students said some young people had stopped wearing items that may identify them as being Jewish, while others had received death threats and virulent antisemitic abuse
This was in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas atrocities, even before the invasion of Gaza that is now used as an excuse.
The fact that 90% of Jews are too scared to go into London when these marches are taking place will also no doubt be dismissed as them being irrational. Instead, everyone has to support ceasefire to stop a fake genocide against a population of whom 70% support Hamas. Otherwise they are bad people.
Unfortunately for those posters who don't believe Israel has a right to exist, the rise in antisemitism in the West has brought home to many Jews the importance of having their own State, meaing more financial support and more people considering making aliyah
You now fully well that a Muslim majority state means the end of Israel and the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the region. Just like what happened to the Jews that were ethnically cleansed from Muslim countries before, and whose descendants now form the largest Jewish ethnic group in IsraelUncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:29 amAgreed. The "they've been fighting for millennia" brigade ignore the fact that this isn't purely a religious conflict. It's also a Western style colonisation/land grab conflict.
I've come around to the view that the two state solution won't work because Israel will never let it work. That leaves a one state rainbow nation solution as the remaining option.
Sure that means no more "Jewish state for a Jewish people" but like the Protestants in NI, they had their chance and fücked it up
cant be arsed to spend time looking through this thread but as well as uncle festers "no more Jewish state, they had their chance and fücked it up" these came up with a quick searchHugo wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:10 amGuy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:41 amNo-one has said that. No-one in here is anywhere near close to that view.
You.
Have.
No.
Credibility.
He doesn't act in good faith. Its all strawmen & gaslighting.
Nevermind the "fake genocide" in Gaza will none of the antisemites on the bored spare a thought for all the Jews in London?
I just can't take him seriously, like you said, 0 credibility.
and from another posterAm I anti-Israel? 100%. I do not acknowledge the right for an illegal state to exist any more than I acknowledge Russia's ownership of the Crimea, Germany's ownership of the Sudentenland (or any other "Liebensraum").
They have shown us over the last ...fucking forever..they are a blood thirsty murderous people who can all just fuck off.
Palistinain people have every single right to attack, hate and fuck up as many israelies as possible.
White supremacist Zionist, aparthied loving pricks need to be removed from this earth, en mass..
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Cherry picking lines and phrases with no context is stock in trade for you Calculon.
No credibility.
No credibility.
This is just plain stupid.Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 6:20 pm Cherry picking lines and phrases with no context is stock in trade for you Calculon.
No credibility.
The context was built in to each and every post, and which all are on this very thread.
What a ground breakingly moronic post.
Let’s just put these together, as some are struggling to connect.
Calculon wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 1:49 pmcant be arsed to spend time looking through this thread but as well as uncle festers "no more Jewish state, they had their chance and fücked it up" these came up with a quick searchHugo wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:10 amGuy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:41 am
No-one has said that. No-one in here is anywhere near close to that view.
You.
Have.
No.
Credibility.
He doesn't act in good faith. Its all strawmen & gaslighting.
Nevermind the "fake genocide" in Gaza will none of the antisemites on the bored spare a thought for all the Jews in London?
I just can't take him seriously, like you said, 0 credibility.
and from another posterAm I anti-Israel? 100%. I do not acknowledge the right for an illegal state to exist any more than I acknowledge Russia's ownership of the Crimea, Germany's ownership of the Sudentenland (or any other "Liebensraum").
They have shown us over the last ...fucking forever..they are a blood thirsty murderous people who can all just fuck off.
Palistinain people have every single right to attack, hate and fuck up as many israelies as possible.
White supremacist Zionist, aparthied loving pricks need to be removed from this earth, en mass..
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Hey, how's the racism thing working out for you, moron?
Fair enough, calculon did unearth two posts, one from last October from Torque, who hasn't posted for months now. I can follow his reasoning but I don't agree with it. The full context of his post was that he was talking about setting up the Israeli state was bound to end up with what is happening now.
The second was from Refry from early last December, and, well, Refry. He hasn't posted for months now either.
I'll leave it for Fester to respond himself.
As for this
Get tae fuck ya prick.
The second was from Refry from early last December, and, well, Refry. He hasn't posted for months now either.
I'll leave it for Fester to respond himself.
As for this
Get tae fuck ya prick.
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Cherry picked as usual and ignores the context of the Lemonhead post we were all responding to.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:27 pm Fair enough, calculon did unearth two posts, one from last October from Torque, who hasn't posted for months now. I can follow his reasoning but I don't agree with it. The full context of his post was that he was talking about setting up the Israeli state was bound to end up with what is happening now.
The second was from Refry from early last December, and, well, Refry. He hasn't posted for months now either.
I'll leave it for Fester to respond himself.
As for this
Get tae fuck ya prick.
Of course they have a right to exist but I'm coming around to the view that they've fücked their chance.
Bigger question is "should they be shielded from the consequences of their increasingly unhinged actions?"
Your angry posting is fricken hilariousTichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:27 pm Fair enough, calculon did unearth two posts, one from last October from Torque, who hasn't posted for months now. I can follow his reasoning but I don't agree with it. The full context of his post was that he was talking about setting up the Israeli state was bound to end up with what is happening now.
The second was from Refry from early last December, and, well, Refry. He hasn't posted for months now either.
I'll leave it for Fester to respond himself.
As for this
Get tae fuck ya prick.
Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:19 pmYour angry posting is fricken hilariousTichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:27 pm Fair enough, calculon did unearth two posts, one from last October from Torque, who hasn't posted for months now. I can follow his reasoning but I don't agree with it. The full context of his post was that he was talking about setting up the Israeli state was bound to end up with what is happening now.
The second was from Refry from early last December, and, well, Refry. He hasn't posted for months now either.
I'll leave it for Fester to respond himself.
As for this
Get tae fuck ya prick.
Your inability to read a mood is quite sad for a grown man.
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What do you expect? He's a moron who makes race based jokes. He'll eventually go full MAGA, that's how the process goes with these clowns.
To be fair, you do have a lot of form as a fucking stupid ringpiece.
Also, you've done it again. I already said that I exaggerated for effect in that post.
Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:29 pm What do you expect? He's a moron who makes race based jokes. He'll eventually go full MAGA, that's how the process goes with these clowns.
"jokes"
True colours more like.
Anyway, as diverting as this is, I'll go back to posting on topic from now on.
However, before I do, I checked to see if I was "defending Hamas' numbers" in that post, this is what I actually wrote in there - the link to it is there via the arrow if it needs checking
After your desperation to lie about the data scientist report and say it hinged on a single factor of linearity.
We got you there in the end, indeed.
Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:05 pmAfter your desperation to lie about the data scientist report and say it hinged on a single factor of linearity.
We got you there in the end, indeed.
I see what you are trying to do, it's not at all clever.
The definition of an internet troll is someone who posts in a desperate attempt to provoke a reaction, it's dishonest and I don't have the inclination to engage with it.
If you've got something to say on the topic, then say it.
Well, apparently a thirds of the number of deaths have discrepancies in the data.
Additionally - Some 15,000 are sourced from “reliable media sources”
FDD article
Additionally - Some 15,000 are sourced from “reliable media sources”
Britain’s statistics watchdog to examine Hamas’s Gaza death toll figures
MP says more care should have been taken in accepting reports as terrorist group admits it has ‘incomplete data’ on a third of deaths
Camilla Turner,
SUNDAY POLITICAL EDITOR
20 April 2024 • 5:10pm
110
Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis, Gaza
The British statistics watchdog is examining fresh claims that death toll figures from Hamas cannot be trusted.
The UK Statistics Authority is assessing whether casualty data provided by the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza should be relied on.
Now Sir Michael Ellis KC, the former attorney general, has written to the UK Statistics Authority to alert it to an admission by Hamas that it has “incomplete data” on a third of Gazan deaths.
He cautioned that these figures could not be trusted – particularly given the recent acknowledgement by Hamas that 11,371 of the fatalities it has claimed to date have only partial records.
This makes up roughly a third of the deaths it has recorded since the start of the Israel-Gaza war.
In a statistical report published on April 6, the Hamas-run health ministry said it considered an individual record to be incomplete if it was missing any one of these key data points: identity number, full name, date of birth or date of death.
‘Reports should not be automatically accepted’
Sir Michael told The Sunday Telegraph: “Any casualty of war is a tragedy. But it is important to recognise that Hamas is a vicious terrorist organisation and their reports should not be automatically accepted and repeated as the unquestioned truth.
“Several academics have already pointed out that the statistics are unreliable. Now Hamas itself has questioned the accuracy of their own casualty figures meaning they may have been overestimated by more than a third. I look forward to hearing from the UK stats authority with its professional assessment of this matter.”
According to the Hamas-run health ministry, more than 33,000 Palestinians have been killed and 76,000 have been wounded in Gaza during the current conflict. The terrorist group’s figures do not differentiate between civilians and combatants.
Israel has said it killed some 13,000 Hamas members in Gaza fighting, in addition to 1,000 killed inside Israel in the aftermath of the terror group’s Oct 7 invasion and massacre.
Israel insists it is only bombing military targets in Gaza and says it goes to great lengths to minimise civilian casualties. It has defended its air campaign as a legitimate response to Hamas’s attack on its civilians.
‘More care should have been taken’
Andrew Percy, a Conservative MP, said: “For months now, civil society, the BBC and politicians on all sides have parroted the figures from Hamas as if they are fact.
“Despite many of us warning that these figures are highly questionable and pointing to Hamas’s previous misuse and lies and casualty figures in the conflict.
“The fact that even Hamas are now accepting that their figures are inflated shows why more care should have been taken by politicians, the media and others.”
Hamas’s admission on the inaccuracy of its casualty data was highlighted by Foundation for Defence of Democracies (FDD), a Washington think-tank.
David Adesnik, director of research at FDD, said: “It is important to recognise that Hamas is deeply invested in shaping the narrative that emerges from Gaza, particularly regarding the number of casualties in the war.”
FDD article
Prior to its admissions of incomplete data, the health ministry asserted that the information in more than 15,000 fatality records had stemmed from “reliable media sources.” However, the ministry never identified the sources in question and Gaza has no independent media.
So what's that, 10 to 15k of civilian casualties after more than 6 moths of fighting in one of the most densely populated areas of the world and with an enemy that uses it's own people as human shields, in fact they actively encourage their "martyrdom"
The yanks killed more than 100 000 Japanese in one night of bombing but I don't remember anyone accusing them of a genocide
The yanks killed more than 100 000 Japanese in one night of bombing but I don't remember anyone accusing them of a genocide
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There's a wonderful disconnect in this thinking, though obviously nobody will ever be able to make Calculon see it.Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:22 am So what's that, 10 to 15k of civilian casualties after more than 6 moths of fighting in one of the most densely populated areas of the world and with an enemy that uses it's own people as human shields, in fact they actively encourage their "martyrdom"
The yanks killed more than 100 000 Japanese in one night of bombing but I don't remember anyone accusing them of a genocide
Hypothetically, should that bring the death tally to 21k or as low as 17k, with 13k Hamas killed, that would make it the lowest civilian casualty ratio ever. < 8k civilians.
Even at (32k) 13k and 19k, it was low.
Let’s see what the UKSA find. On top of the previous data scientist who discredited the numbers.
Even at (32k) 13k and 19k, it was low.
Let’s see what the UKSA find. On top of the previous data scientist who discredited the numbers.
Remarkable, well done IDF! Hopefully, the armed forces of other Western countries can learn from them how to minimize civilian casualtiesYmx wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:31 am Hypothetically, should that bring the death tally to 21k or as low as 17k, with 13k Hamas killed, that would make it the lowest civilian casualty ratio ever. < 8k civilians.
Even at (32k) 13k and 19k, it was low.
Let’s see what the UKSA find. On top of the previous data scientist who discredited the numbers.
Oh wait , the FDD is run by a pro Israel person
Ignore absolutely everything. Even the bits sourced from elsewhere. (/th)
Mark Dubowitz (born 11 September 1968) is a South African-born Canadian-American attorney and former venture capitalist, currently serving as CEO of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a non-profit think-tank and lobbying institute part of the Israel lobby in the United States, that advocates for hawkish foreign policy.[1][2][3][4] He is a proponent of sanctions against Iran[5] and was a leading critic of the Iran nuclear agreement, officially called the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.
good point, the figures from Hamas are the reliable ones
great logic hereTilly Orifice wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:54 am
if you accept that Israeli strikes are causing thousands of civilian casualties, then it's in the interests of Hamas to be seen to be reporting what's happening reliably.
And it's in Israel's interest to lie.
You two are very tedious. Absolutely no one is saying that, as you know.Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:45 am good point, the figures from Hamas are the reliable ones
great logic hereTilly Orifice wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:54 am
if you accept that Israeli strikes are causing thousands of civilian casualties, then it's in the interests of Hamas to be seen to be reporting what's happening reliably.
And it's in Israel's interest to lie.
Everyone is laughing at you blindly believing everything coming coming out of Israel
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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The thing is, you see, that based on video evidence, eyewitness testimony, and common sense, I find it completely credible that the death toll has been massive. And so it's true that Hamas wouldn't need to lie about it. Res ipsa loquitur.Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:45 am good point, the figures from Hamas are the reliable ones
great logic hereTilly Orifice wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:54 am
if you accept that Israeli strikes are causing thousands of civilian casualties, then it's in the interests of Hamas to be seen to be reporting what's happening reliably.
And it's in Israel's interest to lie.
You're entitled to believe the figures are exaggerated, but given the obvious scale of the devastation you would more evidence than, "the figures come from Hamas and they're terrorists". What is your estimation of the death toll? How did you arrive at that figure? What evidence do you have that the Ministry of Health figures are inaccurate?
I was under he impression that historically the data was considered accurate even by the Israelis.
Can you post why exactly you feel the data is incorrect .
Other than ...but Hamas
Last edited by C69 on Sun Apr 21, 2024 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's been quite covered?
Really?
I have no opinion either the way.
Feel free to educate everyone.
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