Goodbye Super Rugby, Hello PRO14

[Carter's Choice]

Yet you seem happy to absolve NZR of all blame and have laid all of it firmly at the feet of SARU, good job champ, guess this is why nobody really takes you that seriously

Another swing and a miss mate. I've been the harshest critic of NZR on the old PR forum. I would take them to task for literally every bad decision that I thought they made.

[Jambanja]

Yet you seem happy to absolve NZR of all blame and have laid all of it firmly at the feet of SARU, good job champ, guess this is why nobody really takes you that seriously

Another swing and a miss mate. I've been the harshest critic of NZR on the old PR forum. I would take them to task for literally every bad decision that I thought they made.

While you have most certainly been a harsh critic of NZR on international matters, you seem to blame all that ails Soup rugby squarely at the feet of SARU and have done for years, question was why you thought RA and NZR allowed SARU to treat them as their, how would you put this, prison cell playthings, for 26 years no less
Now they are leaving you seem certain that the gross incompetence that allowed this to happen, is going to suddenly disappear, just like that
So far they can’t even seem to agree on how many teams each country can put forward for the new comp, I wonder if they will be able to agree on scheduling times and avoid for instance, having more than one game at a time being aired on tv, because they can’t even get that right for the Mitre 10 cup, maybe SARU were in charge of scheduling in Soup rugby and NZR have a bit of catching up to do, they could always take a few tips from the NRL, they seem to have that side of things sorted, anyway I’m sure it’s going to be fine

[ACE]

And now we know NZR lied as well about the 12 December end date of the Rugby Championship.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/inter ... ampionship

[Carter's Choice]

While you have most certainly been a harsh critic of NZR on international matters, you seem to blame all that ails Soup rugby squarely at the feet of SARU and have done for years, question was why you thought RA and NZR allowed SARU to treat them as their, how would you put this, prison cell playthings, for 26 years no less
Now they are leaving you seem certain that the gross incompetence that allowed this to happen, is going to suddenly disappear, just like that

"Prison cell playthings" are your words, but if anything, NZR was too accommodating of the SARU. However in fairness lots of the issues only became apparent in hindsight - after changes had been made. The conference system, and flawed finals systems, sounded great in theory (more popular local derbies and more sustained interest in the finals games across all three nations) but in reality these changes destroyed the integrity of the entire tournament. The non-neutral referees initiative sounded reasonable in theory, but in practise the 20-1 penalty counts made South African games a farce. The inclusion of additional teams was exciting and interesting at the time of announcement, but ultimately resulted in a comp that was too big for its own good. As everyone has conceded, there isn't much anyone could do ab out 3am kickoffs but they became stale as the years turned to decades.

[Enzedder]

I won't miss the Saffers in Super Rugby as we virtually couldn't watch them anyway with their daft start times that only suited themselves.

Hopefully TRC can continue and it may be even better if the Saffers are not "close acquaintances" any more

[OomStruisbaai]

And now we know NZR lied as well about the 12 December end date of the Rugby Championship.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/inter ... ampionship

Mark Robinson is an arrogant Kunterbury doos. Good on SARU finally come to their senses and vokof from this cock swinging Kiwis.

[Jb1981]

When it’s official we need a countdown clock to SARU leaving.

[Gumboot]

I won't miss the Saffers in Super Rugby as we virtually couldn't watch them anyway with their daft start times that only suited themselves.

Hopefully TRC can continue and it may be even better if the Saffers are not "close acquaintances" any more

Yep.

I'd love to see a brand new more "localised" Super comp that includes one or two Japan based sides and at least 3 PI franchises.

[Jambanja]

I won't miss the Saffers in Super Rugby as we virtually couldn't watch them anyway with their daft start times that only suited themselves.

Hopefully TRC can continue and it may be even better if the Saffers are not "close acquaintances" any more

Yep.

I'd love to see a brand new more "localised" Super comp that includes one or two Japan based sides and at least 3 PI franchises.

Be careful what you wish for,
NZR have just announced their plans for SR Aotearoa 2021 and 2022
2021 will be the 5 sides playing each other twice with a one off final and then, if they agree to it a home and away series against the Aussie sides, which is great if the Aussies agree (travel restrictions permitting) .

2022 will see a minimum of 3 sides added, there will be the Hawaii Passifika side, Fiji Drua, the Western force and possibly even a South China Lions side based out of the Bay of Plenty, Australian sides apart from the WF decline to apply for the 2022 version

First thought is, if SR A is anything to go by, they're going to need bigger squads in 2021, because those games were brutal and NZR look to be doubling the workload, if the Aussies agree.

2022 is interesting as they're adding sides that are going to get hammered in the outset, unless they are going to waterdown the main franchises, which i can't see happening, so anyway, fun times ahead

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/a ... d=12369614

[OomStruisbaai]

You can add Cheetahs, Pumas and Griquas.

[ACE]

I won't miss the Saffers in Super Rugby as we virtually couldn't watch them anyway with their daft start times that only suited themselves.

Hopefully TRC can continue and it may be even better if the Saffers are not "close acquaintances" any more

Yep.

I'd love to see a brand new more "localised" Super comp that includes one or two Japan based sides and at least 3 PI franchises.

The only reason you want the Rugby Championship to continue is because it makes sense financially.

Personally I hope the Boks can find a way to join the 6-Nations. Then NZR can stick it out with their RA buddies. See how well that works out in the money stakes.

[Jb1981]

What are people’s thoughts on Kevin de Klerk’s concerns that a move to the the northern competition could weaken the Springboks?

I’m still a firm believer that Super Rugby's standards can't be replicated anywhere else.

"Our teams were exposed weekly to New Zealand and Australian opposition and it made us better. I'm not sure if the competition in Europe can quite match that.

And do people feel any concern the other way - i.e. NZ and Australian sides not playing South African opposition?

[average joe]

I don't get this time slot complaint from Kiwis and Aussies. It's not like our teams always played in prime time when they went over to play. Games in Oz was broadcasted early morning, games in NZ was mid morning and games in Arg was midnight. Fok I mean if you're a genuine rugby supporter and follow your team you'll ether make a plan to be awake at those times or you'll just set the recorder and watch it at a more suited time. I mean sure if you're a poofball or league fan you wont bother and would rather record the Kardashians, but we don't need those sorts anyhow.

[average joe]

What are people’s thoughts on Kevin de Klerk’s concerns that a move to the the northern competition could weaken the Springboks?

I’m still a firm believer that Super Rugby's standards can't be replicated anywhere else.

"Our teams were exposed weekly to New Zealand and Australian opposition and it made us better. I'm not sure if the competition in Europe can quite match that.

And do people feel any concern the other way - i.e. NZ and Australian sides not playing South African opposition?

Nah I reckon it plays to our traditional strengths. The Springboks plays best when they bring the power game. We've tried your helter skelter rugby and sucked ass (57/0). We're more about the set piece and direct aggressive intensity than running around like headless chickens. Up North in the mud we'll be able to focus more on refining your traditional game. And de Klerk is an old fokon dotard.

[Biffer]

Still waiting to understand Australia's level of success in Sr.

[Jambanja]

Still waiting to understand Australia's level of success in Sr.

You won't get an answer because it doesn't suit his narrative, although he did have this to say over at PR

Three Super Rugby titles in 26 seasons, no Bledisloe Cup series wins since 2003 and the Wallabies are currently ranked a pathetic 7th. Throw in a broke national union and a casual CEO on his L Plates, and yet you're here on this thread boasting about how well Australian Rugby is going. Pathetic

Seems somewhat at odds with what he's promoting here now that SARU are going north.

[Enzedder]

I won't miss the Saffers in Super Rugby as we virtually couldn't watch them anyway with their daft start times that only suited themselves.

Hopefully TRC can continue and it may be even better if the Saffers are not "close acquaintances" any more

Yep.

I'd love to see a brand new more "localised" Super comp that includes one or two Japan based sides and at least 3 PI franchises.

The only reason you want the Rugby Championship to continue is because it makes sense financially.

Personally I hope the Boks can find a way to join the 6-Nations. Then NZR can stick it out with their RA buddies. See how well that works out in the money stakes.

Not true - I love rugby and there is no better game than the Boks Vs All Blacks. This dumb conference system sucks hyena's balls and I would sacrifice all but our Boks games to see the end of that abortion.

[Jb1981]

Still waiting to understand Australia's level of success in Sr.

Australia:

- Titles: 4 (three teams)
- Runner up: 6
- Wooden Spoon (pre-conference): 2

South Africa:

- Titles: 3 (one team)
- Runner up: 8
- Wooden Spoon (pre-conference): 11

[average joe]

Yep.

I'd love to see a brand new more "localised" Super comp that includes one or two Japan based sides and at least 3 PI franchises.

The only reason you want the Rugby Championship to continue is because it makes sense financially.

Personally I hope the Boks can find a way to join the 6-Nations. Then NZR can stick it out with their RA buddies. See how well that works out in the money stakes.

Not true - I love rugby and there is no better game than the Boks Vs All Blacks. This dumb conference system sucks hyena's balls and I would sacrifice all but our Boks games to see the end of that abortion.

You cant have 18 teams spread across 4 countries and no conference system. We keep getting blamed for the expansion but it's the aussies that cried about more teams and more local derbies not us. We cant help they don't have a viable local comp. If we just sat back we would have had 5 NZ teams maybe even 6, 5 Aussie teams plus the fokon useless Sunwolves and 4 SA teams. Do you recon that's fair? Besides that, tell me why only us and the aussies had to cut a team. I mean it's not like the Blues was setting the comp alight. Why did the perennial bottom of the log bluessers get a free pass?

[Enzedder]

ou cant have 18 teams spread across 4 countries and no conference system.

Totally agree. I was dead set against the expansion; sorry - dilution; from Day 1.

14 teams was great

[Jb1981]

Besides that, tell me why only us and the aussies had to cut a team. I mean it's not like the Blues was setting the comp alight. Why did the perennial bottom of the log bluessers get a free pass?

The Blues have struggled in the NZ conference but have never come last on the overall ladder. Although, the do have a second to lay above the Sunwolves. Looking at bottom place across nations the numbers are:

South Africa: 14
Australia: 5
Japan: 3
NZ: 2

[average joe]

Being better than the Sunwolves is like being better than goatfuckingstan at 10 pin bowling.

[Jb1981]

Being better than the Sunwolves is like being better than goatfuckingstan at 10 pin bowling.

Perhaps, although Japan has had some notable, some may say miraculous, rugby successes.

I have updated the stats to discount the Sunwolves’ presence.

South Africa: 15
Australia: 6
NZ: 3

[‘tsek]

I fail to understand the amount of bleating on this thread. If SARU was the harbinger of all that is bad in SR, say yay! And get on with it.

There is so much of the jilted lover in the NZ clamoring in this thread and I think the potential change is scaring you. I have loved visiting NZ and have met some great people there, but I experienced it to be slightly insular. Must be the island thing. For so long all that has mattered is the All Blacks! (trade mark) and their success (deservedly) have given them special status. Problem is, times change and the cracks start to appear. You WILL lose more players to the North and they will progressively become younger. Your Shire mentality means you will continue to downplay this. SARU may have seen the future and could end up being the SH early adopters. Maybe not. Time will tell.

You had a great SR Autearoa, congratulations. But do that year in and year out and even AC/CC must admit that the circle-jerk will get overdone.

So goodbye and thank you for the good memories. Good luck with your made up PI and Chinese/Japanese whatever teams and reticent partners from across the Tasman who seem to be calling your bluff.

[assfly]

I fail to understand the amount of bleating on this thread. If SARU was the harbinger of all that is bad in SR, say yay! And get on with it.

There is so much of the jilted lover in the NZ clamoring in this thread and I think the potential change is scaring you. I have loved visiting NZ and have met some great people there, but I experienced it to be slightly insular. Must be the island thing. For so long all that has mattered is the All Blacks! (trade mark) and their success (deservedly) have given them special status. Problem is, times change and the cracks start to appear. You WILL lose more players to the North and they will progressively become younger. Your Shire mentality means you will continue to downplay this. SARU may have seen the future and could end up being the SH early adopters. Maybe not. Time will tell.

You had a great SR Autearoa, congratulations. But do that year in and year out and even AC/CC must admit that the circle-jerk will get overdone.

So goodbye and thank you for the good memories. Good luck with your made up PI and Chinese/Japanese whatever teams and reticent partners from across the Tasman who seem to be calling your bluff.

Agreed. They got what they wanted, so quit vokken moaning and start getting ready for their incestuous rugby tournament.

[Biffer]

Still waiting to understand Australia's level of success in Sr.

Australia:

- Titles: 4 (three teams)
- Runner up: 6
- Wooden Spoon (pre-conference): 2

South Africa:

- Titles: 3 (one team)
- Runner up: 8
- Wooden Spoon (pre-conference): 11

This is what I was trying to get AC to admit. He raved about South Africa being a failure on the pitch in SR. So is Australia.

SR is just a training mechanism for the kiwis.

[Enzedder]

No, we didn't. To get what we wanted we would be back to Super 14 and no Covid.

The expansion killed the goose as much as Covid did as it took away the desire to save it.

[average joe]

Being better than the Sunwolves is like being better than goatfuckingstan at 10 pin bowling.

Perhaps, although Japan has had some notable, some may say miraculous, rugby successes.

I have updated the stats to discount the Sunwolves’ presence.

South Africa: 15
Australia: 6
NZ: 3

If only the Sunwolves was a Japanese team and not the bastard son of a harbour whore full of expat cocks. Anyways your stats gives you an accurate reading I guess and you've made the right decision then by cutting us and making your bed with a great rugby nation. I would hope that you've kept the right partners to test your metal against and not cut the only country that gives you good competition. After all we consider you our greatest foe and we play to our best when we face you. I would hate for that to disappear and be forgotten.

[Jb1981]

I’m in Enzedder’s camp - the expansions and change of format spoiled what was a great competition. Looking for positives, perhaps less familiarity will rejuvenate the All Black vs. Springbok rivalry (not that it needs it). I suspect we won’t have a true feel of how things are going for a few years when the global scene is back to normal and we are over the novelty of the new competitions.

[Carter's Choice]

Still waiting to understand Australia's level of success in Sr.

What does that have to do with anything?

I made the point that South Africa was a failure at SR. Using any criteria imaginable, this statement is 100% correct. They were useless at Super Rugby. An epic failure.

Now you seem determined to bring Australian Rugby into the discussion. I'm not sure why, but that's what you seem desperate to do. I am happy for you to make any statements about Australian Rugby that you'd like, but that won't change that fact that the departing South Africans were failures at Super Rugby level. Hopefully easy rugby will be more to their standard.

[Carter's Choice]

Still waiting to understand Australia's level of success in Sr.

You won't get an answer because it doesn't suit his narrative, although he did have this to say over at PR

Three Super Rugby titles in 26 seasons, no Bledisloe Cup series wins since 2003 and the Wallabies are currently ranked a pathetic 7th. Throw in a broke national union and a casual CEO on his L Plates, and yet you're here on this thread boasting about how well Australian Rugby is going. Pathetic

Seems somewhat at odds with what he's promoting here now that SARU are going north.

Not sure why you're copy and pasting comments made on other Rugby forums. Or what relevance this comment has to South Africa failing terribly in Super Rugby?

[assfly]

I'm not sure if you've noticed CC, but the Saffa fans don't care how badly we performed, and nobody is disputing our record.

[Carter's Choice]

I'm not sure if you've noticed CC, but the Saffa fans don't care how badly we performed, and nobody is disputing our record.

Their record is a matter of fact.

Anyway, I hope the new Pro 18 works out well for South Africa and the Celtic Nations (plus Italy). It was never South Africa's fault that their timezones are what they are. It would have potentially made more sense if they'd joined this league years ago, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[average joe]

I’m in Enzedder’s camp - the expansions and change of format spoiled what was a great competition. Looking for positives, perhaps less familiarity will rejuvenate the All Black vs. Springbok rivalry (not that it needs it). I suspect we won’t have a true feel of how things are going for a few years when the global scene is back to normal and we are over the novelty of the new competitions.

I'm also in that camp, only I believe it was the Aussies who ruined it. You've hardly started on your new comp and the Aussies are already demanding more teams than they're good for. Soon they'll demand including some bazaar "Asian" team full of reject players from all over and then sticking you with the burden.

[Jambanja]

I’m in Enzedder’s camp - the expansions and change of format spoiled what was a great competition. Looking for positives, perhaps less familiarity will rejuvenate the All Black vs. Springbok rivalry (not that it needs it). I suspect we won’t have a true feel of how things are going for a few years when the global scene is back to normal and we are over the novelty of the new competitions.

I'm also in that camp, only I believe it was the Aussies who ruined it. You've hardly started on your new comp and the Aussies are already demanding more teams than they're good for. Soon they'll demand including some bazaar "Asian" team full of reject players from all over and then sticking you with the burden.

I think you’ll find that NZR are way ahead of you there Joe


NZR have just announced their plans for SR Aotearoa 2021 and 2022
2021 will be the 5 sides playing each other twice with a one off final and then, if they agree to it a home and away series against the Aussie sides, which is great if the Aussies agree (travel restrictions permitting) .

2022 will see a minimum of 3 sides added, there will be the Hawaii Passifika side, Fiji Drua, the Western force and possibly even a South China Lions side based out of the Bay of Plenty, Australian sides apart from the WF decline to apply for the 2022 version

[average joe]

I'm not sure if you've noticed CC, but the Saffa fans don't care how badly we performed, and nobody is disputing our record.

No point arguing with him, he's an Aussie who supports the AB's and Crusaders because his nation teams cant beat them.

[Mr. White]

I think it is good for Sa rugby as it will give SARU yet another golden opportunity to completely fuck up the future of the CC and butcher the opportunity to stop the exodus of our players north.

If they don't fuck it up, the CC could be reignited and we can draw on one player pool!

Also, not surprising to see AC trolling the saffas - I feel sorry for the Aussies, as they will have to put up with all his trolling once we are gone.

[handyman]

Nothing that I can do about it, so I'm excited to watch the new PRO18. Also, will be good to see if some of our teams can qualify for the European Rugby Champions Cup, going up against the best of Europe.

Bring it ON!

[assfly]

Nothing that I can do about it, so I'm excited to watch the new PRO18. Also, will be good to see if some of our teams can qualify for the European Rugby Champions Cup, going up against the best of Europe.

Bring it ON!

Pro16, from my understanding.

[Chilli]

I'm not sure if you've noticed CC, but the Saffa fans don't care how badly we performed, and nobody is disputing our record.

Their record is a matter of fact.

Anyway, I hope the new Pro 18 works out well for South Africa and the Celtic Nations (plus Italy). It was never South Africa's fault that their timezones are what they are. It would have potentially made more sense if they'd joined this league years ago, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Why does this bother you so much?