The Scottish Politics Thread

[Slick]

Would you be in a position to say that governance and the sate of society is palpably worse in Scotland than the rest of the UK?

There was an article in the Graun today about life expectancy in Scotland, but that is definitely tied to deprivation.

I can say that things here in South East England have become definitely worse over the last 14 years in almost every respect and we live in a bit of a bubble in Brighton - there is widespread corruption in Westminster, the NHS is falling apart, schools are running food banks for parents even here in affluent middle class hippiedom. I could go on.

I think the UK on the whole has been on a progressively downhill ride for a couple of decades, but the biggest problem I have with the SNP is that despite all their claims to the contrary, they have done nothing to address that slide in Scotland. They parrot stuff like free prescriptions and further education but it's mostly just wind, because 98% of prescriptions in England are free and further education is funded by selling off Uni places to fee paying foreign students, meaning less and less places for Scottish kids.

They have managed to absolutely destroy the police and the criminal justice system and are close to doing the same to the NHS and education, but they always seem more intent on their own pet projects than actually doing anything to benefit the majority of Scots. The bottle return scheme, ferries, GRR, Hate Crime bill, drugs death statistics, minimum pricing for alcohol, climate targets, cancellation of all major infrastructure project like hospitals and road. I could go on but everything they touch they break or it turns to shite and costs us 100s of millions. Christ, we even got a £120 million bill for a malicious prosecution of football club officials which I know for a fact was politically motivated.

What really grinds my gears is that they refuse to be held accountable for anything, and think they are morally and intellectually superior, yet we have had the Salmond debacle, Branchform, Mackay, Matheson, Covid accountability issues and a host of other scandals, now including the First Ministers brother in law charged with dealing drugs and abducting a lad who died trying to escape. How often do we have to see a senior SNP politician lying and prevaricating on TV.

Yousaf himself seems entirely focused on issues outwith his remit, like Gaza, and anyone that disagrees with him he immediately brands an islamophobe or right wing. It's pathetic.

I actually support the idea of independence, but there is not a cat in hells chance that these morons could make a success of it and they seem incapable of producing a credible policy on it other than constantly spouting the sort of Braveheart pish we see on the party political broadcasts.

I'd take issue with the FM's brother in law being used as a stick to beat the SG with, but other than that "I hear you" as they say.

Having said that, I think HS2 dwarfs any other infrastructure project in the UK in terms of pounds wasted. There is still a lot of accounting to be done regarding the pandemic and who made billions out of it - I see your Salmond, Mackay et al and raise you any number of Tory sex scandals, "procurement" deals and all manner of shady goings on.

On Yousaf and his approach to opposition, he hasn't yet sought to criminalise it, the Tories have. You can walk down the street here and see and smell drug taking openly, the police do not have the resources to do anything about it. Same with burglaries and assaults. Homelessness is rising in South East England, it came down under Labour, but the state of the economy under the Tories has brought it back, aggressive begging is the norm here now.

There are no NHS dentists to be had, primary schools are running fund raisers for text books and jotters.

This is not a "Westmonster is worse" post, despite appearances, I'm just trying to say that things are shite here too, in the most affluent area of the UK, let alone elsewhere.

The thing with this is that the Tories are going to get absolutely annihilated at the next election and severely punished for what they have done. The SNP have been so successful at dividing the country that they are going to get a gentle slap on the wrist in comparison, that’s what leaves me with a bit of despair about where the country is and where it is going.

I’ve genuinely been thinking of options to leave which is a massive reversal from when we moved up 8 years ago when, to me, the difference between Scotland and England were markedly in favour of life up here.

[Tichtheid]

The thing with this is that the Tories are going to get absolutely annihilated at the next election and severely punished for what they have done. The SNP have been so successful at dividing the country that they are going to get a gentle slap on the wrist in comparison, that’s what leaves me with a bit of despair about where the country is and where it is going.

I’ve genuinely been thinking of options to leave which is a massive reversal from when we moved up 8 years ago when, to me, the difference between Scotland and England were markedly in favour of life up here.

Every friend I've spoken to here has said that they are envious of us moving back to Scotland and would do the same in an instant if the circumstances were right.

I think the grass is always greener etc

England is just as divided as Scotland - look at the Telegraph, Express and the Mail, the current government are running a pre-election campaign based on division.

[Slick]

The thing with this is that the Tories are going to get absolutely annihilated at the next election and severely punished for what they have done. The SNP have been so successful at dividing the country that they are going to get a gentle slap on the wrist in comparison, that’s what leaves me with a bit of despair about where the country is and where it is going.

I’ve genuinely been thinking of options to leave which is a massive reversal from when we moved up 8 years ago when, to me, the difference between Scotland and England were markedly in favour of life up here.

Every friend I've spoken to here has said that they are envious of us moving back to Scotland and would do the same in an instant if the circumstances were right.

I think the grass is always greener etc

England is just as divided as Scotland - look at the Telegraph, Express and the Mail, the current government are running a pre-election campaign based on division.

On your first point I’d say that until you live here you just don’t understand how divisive and frustrating it is. But In fairness, I’d say that I also acknowledge I’m feeling particularly pissed off at the moment and on balance would much rather be up here.

The 2nd point doesn’t make sense given the polling figures I’ve already mentioned. I genuinely think you will be surprised when you move up

[Tichtheid]

The thing with this is that the Tories are going to get absolutely annihilated at the next election and severely punished for what they have done. The SNP have been so successful at dividing the country that they are going to get a gentle slap on the wrist in comparison, that’s what leaves me with a bit of despair about where the country is and where it is going.

I’ve genuinely been thinking of options to leave which is a massive reversal from when we moved up 8 years ago when, to me, the difference between Scotland and England were markedly in favour of life up here.

Every friend I've spoken to here has said that they are envious of us moving back to Scotland and would do the same in an instant if the circumstances were right.

I think the grass is always greener etc

England is just as divided as Scotland - look at the Telegraph, Express and the Mail, the current government are running a pre-election campaign based on division.

On your first point I’d say that until you live here you just don’t understand how divisive and frustrating it is. But In fairness, I’d say that I also acknowledge I’m feeling particularly pissed off at the moment and on balance would much rather be up here.

The 2nd point doesn’t make sense given the polling figures I’ve already mentioned. I genuinely think you will be surprised when you move up

I've been up and down a lot in recent years and because this was the goal I've been keeping tabs on what is happening. I don't expect to be taken by surprise too much, the train prices are extortionate though.

Can I ask what you mean wrt "The 2nd point"?

[Blackmac]

I think the UK on the whole has been on a progressively downhill ride for a couple of decades, but the biggest problem I have with the SNP is that despite all their claims to the contrary, they have done nothing to address that slide in Scotland. They parrot stuff like free prescriptions and further education but it's mostly just wind, because 98% of prescriptions in England are free and further education is funded by selling off Uni places to fee paying foreign students, meaning less and less places for Scottish kids.

They have managed to absolutely destroy the police and the criminal justice system and are close to doing the same to the NHS and education, but they always seem more intent on their own pet projects than actually doing anything to benefit the majority of Scots. The bottle return scheme, ferries, GRR, Hate Crime bill, drugs death statistics, minimum pricing for alcohol, climate targets, cancellation of all major infrastructure project like hospitals and road. I could go on but everything they touch they break or it turns to shite and costs us 100s of millions. Christ, we even got a £120 million bill for a malicious prosecution of football club officials which I know for a fact was politically motivated.

What really grinds my gears is that they refuse to be held accountable for anything, and think they are morally and intellectually superior, yet we have had the Salmond debacle, Branchform, Mackay, Matheson, Covid accountability issues and a host of other scandals, now including the First Ministers brother in law charged with dealing drugs and abducting a lad who died trying to escape. How often do we have to see a senior SNP politician lying and prevaricating on TV.

Yousaf himself seems entirely focused on issues outwith his remit, like Gaza, and anyone that disagrees with him he immediately brands an islamophobe or right wing. It's pathetic.

I actually support the idea of independence, but there is not a cat in hells chance that these morons could make a success of it and they seem incapable of producing a credible policy on it other than constantly spouting the sort of Braveheart pish we see on the party political broadcasts.

I'd take issue with the FM's brother in law being used as a stick to beat the SG with, but other than that "I hear you" as they say.

Having said that, I think HS2 dwarfs any other infrastructure project in the UK in terms of pounds wasted. There is still a lot of accounting to be done regarding the pandemic and who made billions out of it - I see your Salmond, Mackay et al and raise you any number of Tory sex scandals, "procurement" deals and all manner of shady goings on.

On Yousaf and his approach to opposition, he hasn't yet sought to criminalise it, the Tories have. You can walk down the street here and see and smell drug taking openly, the police do not have the resources to do anything about it. Same with burglaries and assaults. Homelessness is rising in South East England, it came down under Labour, but the state of the economy under the Tories has brought it back, aggressive begging is the norm here now.

There are no NHS dentists to be had, primary schools are running fund raisers for text books and jotters.

This is not a "Westmonster is worse" post, despite appearances, I'm just trying to say that things are shite here too, in the most affluent area of the UK, let alone elsewhere.

The thing with this is that the Tories are going to get absolutely annihilated at the next election and severely punished for what they have done. The SNP have been so successful at dividing the country that they are going to get a gentle slap on the wrist in comparison, that’s what leaves me with a bit of despair about where the country is and where it is going.

I’ve genuinely been thinking of options to leave which is a massive reversal from when we moved up 8 years ago when, to me, the difference between Scotland and England were markedly in favour of life up here.

This is exactly my problem. No matter how incompetent they feel they know they will always get the votes of the independence at all costs type. I think that is what has fed their lack of accountability.

I'm pretty much in the camp of those that despise all modern day politicians and agree that I doubt labour will do much better.

[Big D]

So is the FM:
a - Correct and the community notes and a KC wrong?
b - Simply mistaken?
c - Knows he's wrong but doubling down until this is forgotten?
d - Knowingly misleading people hoping to play to "IT'S THE TOARIES FAULT" gallery?

Thread on the FOI request here:

[Tichtheid]

I wonder what would happen if Westminster contacted Holyrood and said, "We're extending the pardons to Northern Ireland even though their legal system is not the exact same as in England and Wales. We'd like to include Scotland. How can we work together to ensure justice for those wrongly convicted and all of their families?"

Then Holyrood comes back and says, "Great idea, we'd love to work together on this, it's really important that these people see justice, let's get together and get this sorted, it will have to go through Scotland's judicial system, but that shouldn't be a problem."

I'm sure some would still find a reason to be roarin and greetin about it

[Big D]

I wonder what would happen if Westminster contacted Holyrood and said, "We're extending the pardons to Northern Ireland even though their legal system is not the exact same as in England and Wales. We'd like to include Scotland. How can we work together to ensure justice for those wrongly convicted and all of their families?"

Then Holyrood comes back and says, "Great idea, we'd love to work together on this, it's really important that these people see justice, let's get together and get this sorted, it will have to go through Scotland's judicial system, but that shouldn't be a problem."

I'm sure some would still find a reason to be roarin and greetin about it

Or we could just get on with it and do the necessary to get people justice as an example of how our separate legal system and devolved government can act quickly to right wrongs.

Collaboration is always good. But when both sides are entrenched in hating each other then no matter what path was taken there'd be complaints whether not doing enough or over reach.

This is in no way an endorsement of WM and that bunch of shysters. I just want the SG to get on with it rather than moaning.

[Tichtheid]

I wonder what would happen if Westminster contacted Holyrood and said, "We're extending the pardons to Northern Ireland even though their legal system is not the exact same as in England and Wales. We'd like to include Scotland. How can we work together to ensure justice for those wrongly convicted and all of their families?"

Then Holyrood comes back and says, "Great idea, we'd love to work together on this, it's really important that these people see justice, let's get together and get this sorted, it will have to go through Scotland's judicial system, but that shouldn't be a problem."

I'm sure some would still find a reason to be roarin and greetin about it

Or we could just get on with it and do the necessary to get people justice as an example of how our separate legal system and devolved government can act quickly to right wrongs.

Collaboration is always good. But when both sides are entrenched in hating each other then no matter what path was taken there'd be complaints whether not doing enough or over reach.

This is in no way an endorsement of WM and that bunch of shysters. I just want the SG to get on with it rather than moaning.

Which is exactly what will happen, the rest of it is just noise and excuses to point at one direction or another

[Big D]

I wonder what would happen if Westminster contacted Holyrood and said, "We're extending the pardons to Northern Ireland even though their legal system is not the exact same as in England and Wales. We'd like to include Scotland. How can we work together to ensure justice for those wrongly convicted and all of their families?"

Then Holyrood comes back and says, "Great idea, we'd love to work together on this, it's really important that these people see justice, let's get together and get this sorted, it will have to go through Scotland's judicial system, but that shouldn't be a problem."

I'm sure some would still find a reason to be roarin and greetin about it

Or we could just get on with it and do the necessary to get people justice as an example of how our separate legal system and devolved government can act quickly to right wrongs.

Collaboration is always good. But when both sides are entrenched in hating each other then no matter what path was taken there'd be complaints whether not doing enough or over reach.

This is in no way an endorsement of WM and that bunch of shysters. I just want the SG to get on with it rather than moaning.

Which is exactly what will happen, the rest of it is just noise and excuses to point at one direction or another

It is just unnecessary IMO from the FM. Especially when he personally has known about Horizon for so long and the Lord Advocate in January said they didn't want the legislation extended as they were favour of individual appeals rather than a legislative approach.

Many KC's on twitter seem to agree with thr LAs preferred approach which makes the FMs rage seem all the more strange given the LA sits in his cabinet even if Independently.

Giving people the clear route to appeal with the necessary legal aid would be a good start. This may be in the works haven't been able to find mention of it.

[Paddington Bear]

Northern Irish law is much more similar to English law than Scots is. Plus they have a non-functional devolved settlement and fewer powers in any case. Not to mention the SNP’s usual uproar were Westminster to legislate for them.

On leaving etc, I was very taken aback to take two phone calls within a week a month or so ago, the first from some of my family who were very much in the ‘we’ve gone and we’re never coming back’ camp who asked if they could stay at mine whilst house hunting in the Home Counties (30 years in Scotland), and another from an English mate and his once heavily Scottish nationalist gf who are heading back to London ‘totally fucking fed up’. The plural of anecdote is not anecdata of course. Both countries have got worse recently, in one it looks like the party primarily responsible could be dealt the worse blow they have ever received. In the other it would be a shock if they didn’t win a plurality of votes.

[Blackmac]

Or we could just get on with it and do the necessary to get people justice as an example of how our separate legal system and devolved government can act quickly to right wrongs.

Collaboration is always good. But when both sides are entrenched in hating each other then no matter what path was taken there'd be complaints whether not doing enough or over reach.

This is in no way an endorsement of WM and that bunch of shysters. I just want the SG to get on with it rather than moaning.

Which is exactly what will happen, the rest of it is just noise and excuses to point at one direction or another

It is just unnecessary IMO from the FM. Especially when he personally has known about Horizon for so long and the Lord Advocate in January said they didn't want the legislation extended as they were favour of individual appeals rather than a legislative approach.

Many KC's on twitter seem to agree with thr LAs preferred approach which makes the FMs rage seem all the more strange given the LA sits in his cabinet even if Independently.

Giving people the clear route to appeal with the necessary legal aid would be a good start. This may be in the works haven't been able to find mention of it.

I haven't heard on dissenting voice from anyone with any real knowledge of the legal system, criticise the need for Scotland have separate legislation. This is just pathetic from Yousaf.

I also see he has been caught out lying about the Murrell situation. Claimed he had no prior knowledge, yet Police Scotland have just stated they have SG two days notice of the arrest. Which I actually find extraordinary.

[Big D]

So have the SNP or the Greens ended the Bute House Agreement? All seems a bit chaotic at the moment.

If it is the Greens, do the co-leaders go as the members have voted against their opinion?

If it is the SNP is this the FM trying to win over a few dissenting members of the party?

[Big D]

SNP have dumped the Greens according to Lorna Slater. No doubt there'll be some mud slinging at some point.

Quite the about turn from the FM after he spoke positively about the BHA yesterday.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

So have the SNP or the Greens ended the Bute House Agreement? All seems a bit chaotic at the moment.

If it is the Greens, do the co-leaders go as the members have voted against their opinion?

If it is the SNP is this the FM trying to win over a few dissenting members of the party?

Did Patrick Harvie not already say he would step down if the Greens walked out? Not sure what Slater has said.

I imagine the Greens' logic would be that they can't stand by when climate-change targets have been abandoned.

The SNP probably realise the Greens are now toxic to a lot of voters, so Humza wants to do something to shore up the voter base as support is dropping (according to the polls).

[Big D]

I think ultimately it is the right thing for the SNP as a party. The timing looks a bit weak but that will pass.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

SNP have dumped the Greens according to Lorna Slater. No doubt there'll be some mud slinging at some point.

Quite the about turn from the FM after he spoke positively about the BHA yesterday.

Slater's statement suggests Humza was told to dump the Greens by elements of his own party. The fact that he did as he was told shows pretty weak leadership.

[robmatic]

Did Patrick Harvie not already say he would step down if the Greens walked out? Not sure what Slater has said.

I imagine the Greens' logic would be that they can't stand by when climate-change targets have been abandoned.

The SNP probably realise the Greens are now toxic to a lot of voters, so Humza wants to do something to shore up the voter base as support is dropping (according to the polls).

Seems unlike the Scottish Greens to actually prioritise an environmental issue.

[Slick]

I think ultimately it is the right thing for the SNP as a party. The timing looks a bit weak but that will pass.

Well, it will be interesting to see how it plays out at the next Holyrood elections. A lot of indy minded folk will put the SNP/Greens as their 1st/2nd vote so if Green supporters choosing them as their first vote now back another party on the 2nd vote it could have a real impact on the number of indy MSP's

[Tichtheid]

I think ultimately it is the right thing for the SNP as a party. The timing looks a bit weak but that will pass.

Well, it will be interesting to see how it plays out at the next Holyrood elections. A lot of indy minded folk will put the SNP/Greens as their 1st/2nd vote so if Green supporters choosing them as their first vote now back another party on the 2nd vote it could have a real impact on the number of indy MSP's

The next Holyrood election is two years away, there is a lot of politics to flow under the bridge before then. I think a lot will depend on how well Labour do in their first year to eighteen months in Westminster. If Starmer is viewed to have done really well it will impact heavily on the SNP vote

[Slick]

I think ultimately it is the right thing for the SNP as a party. The timing looks a bit weak but that will pass.

Well, it will be interesting to see how it plays out at the next Holyrood elections. A lot of indy minded folk will put the SNP/Greens as their 1st/2nd vote so if Green supporters choosing them as their first vote now back another party on the 2nd vote it could have a real impact on the number of indy MSP's

The next Holyrood election is two years away, there is a lot of politics to flow under the bridge before then. I think a lot will depend on how well Labour do in their first year to eighteen months in Westminster. If Starmer is viewed to have done really well it will impact heavily on the SNP vote

Well yes, but this was being pushed hard by the Greens membership, against the wishes of Harvie and Slater, so I'm not sure it is something that is going to be forgiven easily or quickly.

[Slick]

That was a truly awful performance by Humza at FMQ. Pretty much exactly the same answer to every question and somehow managing to bring every answer, which were all Scotland specific, back to the “Tory’s in Westminster”

Also now answering questions on climate without seeming to realise that his government just dropped their commitments. Extraordinarily

Seeing MSP’s like Ivan McKee and Fergus Ewing just glowering at him speak a thousand words.

[Slick]

That was a truly awful performance by Humza at FMQ. Pretty much exactly the same answer to every question and somehow managing to bring every answer, which were all Scotland specific, back to the “Tory’s in Westminster”

Also now answering questions on climate without seeming to realise that his government just dropped their commitments. Extraordinary

Seeing MSP’s like Ivan McKee and Fergus Ewing just glowering at him speak a thousand words.

[Slick]

That was a truly awful performance by Humza at FMQ. Pretty much exactly the same answer to every question and somehow managing to bring every answer, which were all Scotland specific, back to the “Tory’s in Westminster”

Also now answering questions on climate without seeming to realise that his government just dropped their commitments. Extraordinary

Seeing MSP’s like Ivan McKee and Fergus Ewing just glowering at him speak a thousand words.

[Slick]

No idea what I’ve done here

[tc27]

No confidence vote on Humza now likely and he's going to need the SG to cooperate.

[Big D]

No idea what I’ve done here

You know what they say. "If it is worth saying, post it twice and quote post it"!

[Slick]

No idea what I’ve done here

You know what they say. "If it is worth saying, post it twice and quote post it"!

It was an excellent post to be fair.

[tc27]

Scottish Greens are joining no confidence vote against Humza so he needs Ash Regan or he's done.

Lots of pundits expect him to resign.

[Slick]

Scottish Greens are joining no confidence vote against Humza so he needs Ash Regan or he's done.

Lots of pundits expect him to resign.

I’m not sure he’s the resigning type

[Biffer]

Scottish Greens are joining no confidence vote against Humza so he needs Ash Regan or he's done.

Lots of pundits expect him to resign.

I’m not sure he’s the resigning type

He’s absolutely not. He’s of that West of Scotland political class that used to be entirely in the Labour Party. Only concerned with power and patronage, not policy.

[Blackmac]

Scottish Greens are joining no confidence vote against Humza so he needs Ash Regan or he's done.

Lots of pundits expect him to resign.

Jesus, sums what a slippery, self serving shower of cnuts politicians are.

[Blackmac]

Scottish Greens are joining no confidence vote against Humza so he needs Ash Regan or he's done.

Lots of pundits expect him to resign.

I’m not sure he’s the resigning type

Ash Regan is going to make him eat a whole pile of shite to get her backing. I have absolutely no doubt he will park whatever credibility he still has and eat it with gusto to hold on.

[Blackmac]

Christine Graham was an absolute picture behind Yousaf at FMQ. Total disdain.

[Slick]

Well, he says he’s not going.

I thought it was the Conservatives calling for the no confidence motion, not sure it’s a great idea for Labour to be leading on it

[Big D]

Well, he says he’s not going.

I thought it was the Conservatives calling for the no confidence motion, not sure it’s a great idea for Labour to be leading on it

I think they should. Push for an election near the time of a GE and push the narrative that a clean break is needed and Labour can provide the necessary leadership*.

*whether they can remains to be seen.

[Slick]

Well, he says he’s not going.

I thought it was the Conservatives calling for the no confidence motion, not sure it’s a great idea for Labour to be leading on it

I think they should. Push for an election near the time of a GE and push the narrative that a clean break is needed and Labour can provide the necessary leadership*.

*whether they can remains to be seen.

Was thinking more along the lines of those ex SNP who have moved over to Labour might get the hump at the politics of it all.

[Slick]

Salmond at it again.

He can’t really believe that many people have the stomach for more Indy stuff at the moment, so presumably all this business about wanting to push again to vote for Humza is just about getting more of the hardcore over to Alba

[Big D]

Salmond at it again.

He can’t really believe that many people have the stomach for more Indy stuff at the moment, so presumably all this business about wanting to push again to vote for Humza is just about getting more of the hardcore over to Alba

There's also the angle that for Salmond there is probably an element of wanting to see off Humza who was Sturgeons hand picked successor.

Rumours that Humza is now considering quitting.

[vball]

Rumours that Humza is now considering quitting.

Even The National say he is thinking of going .... so he must be going.
So after Nicoliar and Useless, who next? Perhaps Kate Forbes ... might be good to some sternness from the Wee Frees.