The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[I like neeps]

The issue just is that there's so few opportunities for top Scots to go abroad now so we're in a position most Scottish developed internationals are in Scotland. And they we sign up the non Scottish developed internationals e.g. Skinner, Healy is their Scottish cap makes it harder to get contracts.

There just isn't the case for having NSQs who aren't saying Bofelli level world class when we don't lose internationals and struggle to develop them as we have no pathway.

Is it a lack of opportunity or lack of SRU/player willingness to let the player leave SRU control? Same thing I suppose.

If the sole aim of Edinburgh and Glasgow is to provide players for Scotland then sure. But there isn't the strength in depth in some positions from only Scottish qualified (and affordable) players. I also don't agree that it needs to be absolute top class players that are brought in to help improve things in certain positions although it clearly helps when they are that good.

Decent quality NSQs who improve the side are better signings than the likes of McBurney, especially when they can act as good mentors to the younger players. I still think Edinburgh (and Currie) would have benefitted a good NSQ centre rather than resigning Lang for example. Shiel would have benefitted from a decent quality mentor but that time has been and gone.

Good NSQs who can contribute could and should be a part of the development of SQ players where the right opportunity arises.

I really hope that's not the case. I want both teams (well, Glasgow) to be great club sides in their own right, and challenge for trophies. Glasgow's Pro12 win is still the highlight in Scottish rugby of the last decade for me, and I'm hoping for a repeat this season. The Scotland team is important, but especially after yet another nothing RWC and 6N campaign, I'm increasingly seeing Glasgow as the team that's the most important to me.

It is the case as the SRU run the teams which wouldn't be financially viable without the SRU.

And agreed Glasgow's 2012 win was a real highlight, as was 17/18(?) semi final Vs Ulster (less so the final). But that's because it was the only time in the last what 20 years a Scottish team has won anything. A Scotland six nations win would be everyone's highlight.

[clydecloggie]

Is it a lack of opportunity or lack of SRU/player willingness to let the player leave SRU control? Same thing I suppose.

If the sole aim of Edinburgh and Glasgow is to provide players for Scotland then sure. But there isn't the strength in depth in some positions from only Scottish qualified (and affordable) players. I also don't agree that it needs to be absolute top class players that are brought in to help improve things in certain positions although it clearly helps when they are that good.

Decent quality NSQs who improve the side are better signings than the likes of McBurney, especially when they can act as good mentors to the younger players. I still think Edinburgh (and Currie) would have benefitted a good NSQ centre rather than resigning Lang for example. Shiel would have benefitted from a decent quality mentor but that time has been and gone.

Good NSQs who can contribute could and should be a part of the development of SQ players where the right opportunity arises.

I really hope that's not the case. I want both teams (well, Glasgow) to be great club sides in their own right, and challenge for trophies. Glasgow's Pro12 win is still the highlight in Scottish rugby of the last decade for me, and I'm hoping for a repeat this season. The Scotland team is important, but especially after yet another nothing RWC and 6N campaign, I'm increasingly seeing Glasgow as the team that's the most important to me.

It is the case as the SRU run the teams which wouldn't be financially viable without the SRU.

And agreed Glasgow's 2012 win was a real highlight, as was 17/18(?) semi final Vs Ulster (less so the final). But that's because it was the only time in the last what 20 years a Scottish team has won anything. A Scotland six nations win would be everyone's highlight.

For sure, but that has not happened. And given that this year represented probably the best opportunity for one and they bombed completely...I'd say 'domestic' success for Glasgow (or, at a stretch, Edinburgh) is the highest actually achievable honour for Scottish rugby so let's go for it. If that requires getting a Jordie Barrett or other world-class NSQ, so be it.

[Tichtheid]

I think our best chance of six nations success is in the odd numbered years - three home fixtures with Ireland and Wales at Murrayfield. We've won in Twickenham and Paris isn't the huge mountain for us it used to be.

[Tichtheid]

Former Edinburgh coach Cockerill blasts Scottish Rugby

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/former-e ... ixCb90cljj

[I like neeps]

I really hope that's not the case. I want both teams (well, Glasgow) to be great club sides in their own right, and challenge for trophies. Glasgow's Pro12 win is still the highlight in Scottish rugby of the last decade for me, and I'm hoping for a repeat this season. The Scotland team is important, but especially after yet another nothing RWC and 6N campaign, I'm increasingly seeing Glasgow as the team that's the most important to me.

It is the case as the SRU run the teams which wouldn't be financially viable without the SRU.

And agreed Glasgow's 2012 win was a real highlight, as was 17/18(?) semi final Vs Ulster (less so the final). But that's because it was the only time in the last what 20 years a Scottish team has won anything. A Scotland six nations win would be everyone's highlight.

For sure, but that has not happened. And given that this year represented probably the best opportunity for one and they bombed completely...I'd say 'domestic' success for Glasgow (or, at a stretch, Edinburgh) is the highest actually achievable honour for Scottish rugby so let's go for it. If that requires getting a Jordie Barrett or other world-class NSQ, so be it.

The issue with that premise is that pro teams require a full Murrayfield on international windows to pay for the pro teams. So yes great stock the team full of NSQ superstars and when Scotland are dreadful because they don't have any players the NSQs are unaffordable as the public aren't spending £80 to watch Argentina horse the national team and then what?

[dpedin]

Former Edinburgh coach Cockerill blasts Scottish Rugby

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/former-e ... ixCb90cljj

No great surprise from Cockerill, everyone elses fault apart from his own. Still sore after being given the boot from Embra. However on his main point about physical development of u20 then I am not sure if it is what the SRU do with them or the lack of raw material coming through the system. My son's school team, who reached finals of School comp and played at Murrayfield finals, had a number of good players in the system but after school the majority went off to University and gradually got lost to the system. They chose their Uni on basis of academic criteria not rugby requirements. Of those who remained in the system many got injured and drifted away from rugby. My mates son who is in u18 squad was doing well then inured himself badly, same injury as Glasgow pro had, but was well looked after and had same surgeon, facilities, etc as pro had. Hopefully he will be fully fit soon. Starting with small numbers and a high attrition rate means not many actually get to the top whereas in England they have huge numbers coming through the system and can cope with the attrition. Given our heavy reliance on private schooling system then I am not sure the SRU can do much about this.

[Tichtheid]

Former Edinburgh coach Cockerill blasts Scottish Rugby

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/former-e ... ixCb90cljj

No great surprise from Cockerill, everyone elses fault apart from his own. Still sore after being given the boot from Embra. However on his main point about physical development of u20 then I am not sure if it is what the SRU do with them or the lack of raw material coming through the system. My son's school team, who reached finals of School comp and played at Murrayfield finals, had a number of good players in the system but after school the majority went off to University and gradually got lost to the system. They chose their Uni on basis of academic criteria not rugby requirements. Of those who remained in the system many got injured and drifted away from rugby. My mates son who is in u18 squad was doing well then inured himself badly, same injury as Glasgow pro had, but was well looked after and had same surgeon, facilities, etc as pro had. Hopefully he will be fully fit soon. Starting with small numbers and a high attrition rate means not many actually get to the top whereas in England they have huge numbers coming through the system and can cope with the attrition. Given our heavy reliance on private schooling system then I am not sure the SRU can do much about this.

To keep beating a particular drum, the U20s looked like they were better prepared this year, if still a fair way behind some huge teams, but this was the lads' first time in the S6 and now that's been scrapped

[robmatic]

It is the case as the SRU run the teams which wouldn't be financially viable without the SRU.

And agreed Glasgow's 2012 win was a real highlight, as was 17/18(?) semi final Vs Ulster (less so the final). But that's because it was the only time in the last what 20 years a Scottish team has won anything. A Scotland six nations win would be everyone's highlight.

For sure, but that has not happened. And given that this year represented probably the best opportunity for one and they bombed completely...I'd say 'domestic' success for Glasgow (or, at a stretch, Edinburgh) is the highest actually achievable honour for Scottish rugby so let's go for it. If that requires getting a Jordie Barrett or other world-class NSQ, so be it.

The issue with that premise is that pro teams require a full Murrayfield on international windows to pay for the pro teams. So yes great stock the team full of NSQ superstars and when Scotland are dreadful because they don't have any players the NSQs are unaffordable as the public aren't spending £80 to watch Argentina horse the national team and then what?

Literally nobody on this thread is arguing for pro teams stocked full of NSQ players.

[robmatic]

Former Edinburgh coach Cockerill blasts Scottish Rugby

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/former-e ... ixCb90cljj

No great surprise from Cockerill, everyone elses fault apart from his own. Still sore after being given the boot from Embra. However on his main point about physical development of u20 then I am not sure if it is what the SRU do with them or the lack of raw material coming through the system. My son's school team, who reached finals of School comp and played at Murrayfield finals, had a number of good players in the system but after school the majority went off to University and gradually got lost to the system. They chose their Uni on basis of academic criteria not rugby requirements. Of those who remained in the system many got injured and drifted away from rugby. My mates son who is in u18 squad was doing well then inured himself badly, same injury as Glasgow pro had, but was well looked after and had same surgeon, facilities, etc as pro had. Hopefully he will be fully fit soon. Starting with small numbers and a high attrition rate means not many actually get to the top whereas in England they have huge numbers coming through the system and can cope with the attrition. Given our heavy reliance on private schooling system then I am not sure the SRU can do much about this.

I don't think he's necessarily wrong about those failings of the SRU though. Lots of people fail sideways in the organisation.

[clydecloggie]

For sure, but that has not happened. And given that this year represented probably the best opportunity for one and they bombed completely...I'd say 'domestic' success for Glasgow (or, at a stretch, Edinburgh) is the highest actually achievable honour for Scottish rugby so let's go for it. If that requires getting a Jordie Barrett or other world-class NSQ, so be it.

The issue with that premise is that pro teams require a full Murrayfield on international windows to pay for the pro teams. So yes great stock the team full of NSQ superstars and when Scotland are dreadful because they don't have any players the NSQs are unaffordable as the public aren't spending £80 to watch Argentina horse the national team and then what?

Literally nobody on this thread is arguing for pro teams stocked full of NSQ players.

Certainly not me. I think setting Glasgow up to win URC finals is entirely compatible with selling out Murrayfield on our way to another mid-table 6N finish. The idea that the URC teams are simply development clubs for future Scotland national team glory including 6N trophies seems utterly daft to me, given Scotland's track record in 6N and RWC - which hasn't changed even with a generation of players miles above our usual standard. But those same players were / are good enough to win Pro12/14/URC trophies or at least make it to the final, again based on (Glasgow's) track record.

[topofthemoon]

A wee look at the URC run-in. Glasgow and Edinburgh's remaining fixtures - and their previous records against the same opponents; what the targets might be for maximising finishing positions; and some possible permutations for the playoffs.

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/news/ ... edinburgh/

[Tichtheid]

Embra to play Cardiff

Shoemann, Ashman, Nel, Skinner, Gilchrist (C), Ritchie, Watson, Crosbie
Price, Healy, vdM, Lang, Currie, Boff, Goosen

Cherry, Venter, Sebastian, Sykes, Mata, Vellacott, Bennett, Dean

[Dogbert]

Glasgow Team up for Zebre

Strong backline - but the pack is very much not the first team - but a good few of the pack could do with a rest.

Great to see Grant Stewart back and straight onto the bench - and that's a pretty strong bench to bring on.

Glasgow really need a 5 pointer here

Stafford starting again - he must have played more minutes than anyone else.

McKay back too - he probably has been the Glasgow's best player this year

1 Allan Dell (10)
2 Gregor Hiddleston (7)
3 Lucio Sordoni (30)
4 Sintu Manjezi (22)
5 Max Williamson (13)
6 Ally Miller (28)
7 Thomas Gordon (74)
8 Henco Venter (15)
9 Jamie Dobie (61)
10 Ross Thompson (47)
11 Kyle Rowe (14)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (48)
13 Stafford McDowall (75)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (71)
15 Josh McKay (43)

Replacements
16 Grant Stewart (48)
17 Nathan McBeth (37)
18 Zander Fagerson (142)
19 Scott Cummings (119)
20 Euan Ferrie (14)
21 Gregor Brown (16)
22 George Horne (112)
23 Tom Jordan (43)

[Biffer]

Embra to play Cardiff

Shoemann, Ashman, Nel, Skinner, Gilchrist (C), Ritchie, Watson, Crosbie
Price, Healy, vdM, Lang, Currie, Boff, Goosen

Cherry, Venter, Sebastian, Sykes, Mata, Vellacott, Bennett, Dean

Great to see Boff back, looks a strong team. A win definitely required if we're to make the top eight.

[topofthemoon]

Match preview for Zebre v Glasgow:

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/news/ ... head-head/

[KingBlairhorn]

Embra to play Cardiff

Shoemann, Ashman, Nel, Skinner, Gilchrist (C), Ritchie, Watson, Crosbie
Price, Healy, vdM, Lang, Currie, Boff, Goosen

Cherry, Venter, Sebastian, Sykes, Mata, Vellacott, Bennett, Dean

Great to see Boff back, looks a strong team. A win definitely required if we're to make the top eight.

Agreed, should be expecting a 5 point win really with that team against Cardiff.

[KingBlairhorn]

Glasgow Team up for Zebre

Strong backline - but the pack is very much not the first team - but a good few of the pack could do with a rest.

Great to see Grant Stewart back and straight onto the bench - and that's a pretty strong bench to bring on.

Glasgow really need a 5 pointer here

Stafford starting again - he must have played more minutes than anyone else.

McKay back too - he probably has been the Glasgow's best player this year

1 Allan Dell (10)
2 Gregor Hiddleston (7)
3 Lucio Sordoni (30)
4 Sintu Manjezi (22)
5 Max Williamson (13)
6 Ally Miller (28)
7 Thomas Gordon (74)
8 Henco Venter (15)
9 Jamie Dobie (61)
10 Ross Thompson (47)
11 Kyle Rowe (14)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (48)
13 Stafford McDowall (75)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (71)
15 Josh McKay (43)

Replacements
16 Grant Stewart (48)
17 Nathan McBeth (37)
18 Zander Fagerson (142)
19 Scott Cummings (119)
20 Euan Ferrie (14)
21 Gregor Brown (16)
22 George Horne (112)
23 Tom Jordan (43)

Would have preferred to have walker in for this one rather than him getting skelped in a behind closed doors kick-about with Georgia.

Otherwise, as long as it doesn’t backfire, a bit of rotation/rest is always welcome for the front line players.

[Big D]

Embra to play Cardiff

Shoemann, Ashman, Nel, Skinner, Gilchrist (C), Ritchie, Watson, Crosbie
Price, Healy, vdM, Lang, Currie, Boff, Goosen

Cherry, Venter, Sebastian, Sykes, Mata, Vellacott, Bennett, Dean

Great to see Boff back, looks a strong team. A win definitely required if we're to make the top eight.

That's pretty close to full noise. No excuses.

[fishfoodie]

My Dog Rugby on BBC Alba, this is "End of Days" stuff

[topofthemoon]

[Jock42]

Embra to play Cardiff

Shoemann, Ashman, Nel, Skinner, Gilchrist (C), Ritchie, Watson, Crosbie
Price, Healy, vdM, Lang, Currie, Boff, Goosen

Cherry, Venter, Sebastian, Sykes, Mata, Vellacott, Bennett, Dean

Interesting he's gone for Goosen at 15 and Boff on the wing. He's been good there but I just assumed Boff would slot back in there. Either way it's good to have another back 3 option available. BP needed.

[Slick]

Amen. Good piece

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... SApp_Other

[topofthemoon]

Match preview for Cardiff v Edinburgh:

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... urc-clash/

[Slick]

I think Healy might be a bit thick

[Tichtheid]

Embra up to 7th, but I think we'll be back to ninth by the end of the night - Leinster have put out another piss weak team against the Stormers and Connacht are at the Dragons

The lack of BPs is killing us.

[Biffer]

7th time this season Edinburgh have scored three tries. Have to wonder if having Kinghorn, Boffeli and Graham fit all season would have provided a few vital bonus points.

Some of the teams around us have very difficult run ins, so hopefully we can still get top eight, but I'm still looking at that home game v Bennetton.

[Tichtheid]

7th time this season Edinburgh have scored three tries. Have to wonder if having Kinghorn, Boffeli and Graham fit all season would have provided a few vital bonus points.

Some of the teams around us have very difficult run ins, so hopefully we can still get top eight, but I'm still looking at that home game v Bennetton.

The guys who have come in in the back three have played well, Paterson especially but also Jake Henry and Goosen is showing the form he was signed for.

I think it's more fundamental than who is in the shirt in those positions

[Biffer]

7th time this season Edinburgh have scored three tries. Have to wonder if having Kinghorn, Boffeli and Graham fit all season would have provided a few vital bonus points.

Some of the teams around us have very difficult run ins, so hopefully we can still get top eight, but I'm still looking at that home game v Bennetton.

The guys who have come in in the back three have played well, Paterson especially but also Jake Henry and Goosen is showing the form he was signed for.

I think it's more fundamental than who is in the shirt in those positions

They have, but we've had Dean starting on the wing a few times and no back three cover on the bench a few times on top of that. It's not a slight on the personnel, it's that we were left a man short when we took the money for BK, and we didn't replace him.

Can you imagine the howling from Glasgow if something similar hapenwd to them? If they got a huge offer for Zander F and didn't replace him for the season?

[topofthemoon]

7th time this season Edinburgh have scored three tries. Have to wonder if having Kinghorn, Boffeli and Graham fit all season would have provided a few vital bonus points.

Some of the teams around us have very difficult run ins, so hopefully we can still get top eight, but I'm still looking at that home game v Bennetton.

The guys who have come in in the back three have played well, Paterson especially but also Jake Henry and Goosen is showing the form he was signed for.

I think it's more fundamental than who is in the shirt in those positions

They have, but we've had Dean starting on the wing a few times and no back three cover on the bench a few times on top of that. It's not a slight on the personnel, it's that we were left a man short when we took the money for BK, and we didn't replace him.

Can you imagine the howling from Glasgow if something similar hapenwd to them? If they got a huge offer for Zander F and didn't replace him for the season?

7 back 3 players would probably have been seen as plenty cover, they've just been hellishly unlucky with injuries. The injured list has actually been pretty short most of the season but very focused in one area - eg 5 out of 8 injured players were back 3s for the game v Scarlets where they started Currie on the wing.

Collectively, Edinburgh's wings and fulls backs have missed 72 games this season - average of 10 each, compared to average of 3 each for the rest of the squad.

Not recalling Savala from his loan to take some game time at 10 surprised me a bit more but they've been happy to run Healy out for every minute available.

[clydecloggie]

Stormers demolish Leinster, so Glasgow top of the URC standings by 4 points. A good tour of SA needed but a big chance here to secure home advantage all the way to the final.

[topofthemoon]

What Glasgow require to mathematically secure:

Top 8 - done;

Top 4 - 3 points;

Top 2 - 10 points (incl. 2 wins);

Top spot - 12 points*

*11 pts (including 2 wins) could be enough if points difference remains better than Leinster (currently Gla +183; Lei +133).

[clydecloggie]

What Glasgow require to mathematically secure:

Top 8 - done;

Top 4 - 3 points;

Top 2 - 10 points (incl. 2 wins);

Top spot - 12 points*

*11 pts (including 2 wins) could be enough if points difference remains better than Leinster (currently Gla +183; Lei +133).

This is on the assumption Leinster will take 15 points from their last 3 games? Not a given, with their remaining fixtures.

[topofthemoon]

What Glasgow require to mathematically secure:

Top 8 - done;

Top 4 - 3 points;

Top 2 - 10 points (incl. 2 wins);

Top spot - 12 points*

*11 pts (including 2 wins) could be enough if points difference remains better than Leinster (currently Gla +183; Lei +133).

This is on the assumption Leinster will take 15 points from their last 3 games? Not a given, with their remaining fixtures.

Yeah this is to mathematically secure the position, no matter what the rest of the league does.

I think Munster will set the bar at 68 points, it's just a question of whether Leinster's European focus continues to distract them.

I'd suggest their 2 home games will almost certainly be 5-pointers. If they go full noise up to the Kingspan they would expect to win. If they know they need the BP it would be a surprise if they didn't get it.

If Leinster did slip up though, even by missing out on 1 BP, then 10 points could be enough for Glasgow if they retain their advantage in points difference over Leinster (they would already be ahead of Munster on number of wins).

[Tichtheid]

Edinburgh’s league campaign so far in a few numbers

10 The number of league wins, equal third with Bulls and Munster
3 The number of bonus points gained, equal last with Dragons.
7 The number of times Edinburgh have scored 3 tries.
9 The number of our position in the league table.

147 The number of points scored by Ben Healy to make him top points scorer in the league, 33 ahead of his nearest rival Johann Goosen of the Bulls.

[KingBlairhorn]

So Glasgow is 12 points from Bulls and Lions away plus Zebre at home. Not impossible but tbh I don’t think they’ll do it.


As to who makes the playoffs from 5th to 9th, it’s a tougher guess to make.

Edinburgh are home to Zebre, home to Munster and away to Benetton. I would guess at 6 to 8 points from that.

Stormers are away at Dragons, away at Connacht and home against the Lions. 10 to 12 points for them is my guess.

Connacht are away to Munster, home to Stormers and away to Leinster. 4 to 6 points.

Ulster are away to Scarletts, home to Leinster and away to Munster. 6 to 8 points.

Benetton are away sharks and bulls and home against Edinburgh. 5 to 7 points.

So my guess is stormers are the banker to get into the playoffs from the 5 teams in 5th to 9th, especially as they already have the most points. Connacht are the least likely to make it, followed by Benetton. Edinburgh are in a good position. Achieve ‘par’ and they will be in the playofffs.

Final log:
5th Stormers
Ulster
Edinburgh
Benetton
9th Connacht

[Yr Alban]

Saw a rumour on Twitter today that the SRU have tied up Tuipulotu the younger. For Edinburgh. Which would certainly give the derbies an edge!

[KingBlairhorn]

Saw a rumour on Twitter today that the SRU have tied up Tuipulotu the younger. For Edinburgh. Which would certainly give the derbies an edge!

Hopefully he is better than his participations stats (one sub appearance this year) in super rugby suggest.

[Tichtheid]

Adam McBurney is joining Connacht for next season. Good luck to him, I thought he played well whenever called on for Edinburgh.

That moves Paddy Harrison up to third choice with young Jerry Blyth-Lafferty in fourth spot

[Biffer]

Adam McBurney is joining Connacht for next season. Good luck to him, I thought he played well whenever called on for Edinburgh.

That moves Paddy Harrison up to third choice with young Jerry Blyth-Lafferty in fourth spot

Good stuff, hope it stays that way and we don’t have some bullshit about bringing in experienced cover.

[robmatic]

Adam McBurney is joining Connacht for next season. Good luck to him, I thought he played well whenever called on for Edinburgh.

That moves Paddy Harrison up to third choice with young Jerry Blyth-Lafferty in fourth spot

He's a decent enough player, McBurney, but Harrison is probably ready for more regular action now and I think he has a very high ceiling if he continues to progress. He seems to have bulked up a bit from what I've seen of him this season and presumably he has been working on his throwing, which was a weakness before.