Stop voting for fucking Tories

[I like neeps]

A lot is made (truthfully) of Harry Cole et al being client journalists of the Tories. As we’re on the cusp of a change of government it is worth remembering that their Labour counterparts exist too. Goodall being one of them

Goodall, James O' Brien, etc.

The interesting point will be how they behave when Labour are in power and don't really achieve anything. How they spin that.

Especially O'Brien. Constantly furious, without ever advancing any solutions.

A lot of the complaints O'brien has boils down to outright corruption and absence of any competence which dont really require complex solutions. The difficult one for O'brien and Labour is brexit and I expect he will still be anti brexit. I do think there are some simple things for business that Labour can do to ease trade without upsetting anyone bar the full on brexit loonies as the Tories really have tied themselves up in knots by trying to appease.

I think the difficulty is yes (a) keeping a stance on Brexit and (b) he has a huge ego and loves the sound of his own voice during every monologue. Just want to see what he does without his critical monologues aimed at the Tories. His ego won't handle it well. He's fairly unique in being a firebrand in that respect, the other Starmer journos Goodall/Dunt/Behr are the bores who again don't have any ambition for change in people's circumstances. It's very much we want our twee country will silly institutions back and grr if anyone doesn't play the game as it's always been played.

[Tichtheid]

A lot is made (truthfully) of Harry Cole et al being client journalists of the Tories. As we’re on the cusp of a change of government it is worth remembering that their Labour counterparts exist too. Goodall being one of them

Goodall, James O' Brien, etc.

The interesting point will be how they behave when Labour are in power and don't really achieve anything. How they spin that.

Especially O'Brien. Constantly furious, without ever advancing any solutions.

If you know a way to make an alcoholic quit, I'm sure you'll find an eager & attentive audience ??

You can't force someone who believed in the Brexit bullshit to wipe the scales from their eyes & acknowledge they were duped; they have to work it out in their own. The problem is that it's bloody difficult to get anyone to admit a mistake, & the bigger the mistake, the harder it gets !

How does Labour, delicately, point out that voters were gullible fools when they voted for Brexit, & that they now urgently need to internalize that, & recognize the mistake, & start to reverse it ASAP ?

.
.
.

There's no simple way to reverse such an immense fuckup, you just have to wait for people to work it out for themselves, or for them to die off, & the demographic to shift.

In June last year there was an article that stated that since the Brexit vote 4m people had died and they were mostly leavers - presumably/hopefully it wasn't as crude as "they were old and so leavers", I don't know, but also 5m had come of voting age, again homely more substantial than, "they are young and so retainers" - those numbers will both have increased by now.

I read something the other day along the same lines, that there is now a clear majority in favour of Remain/Rejoin.

Unfortunately I can't see it happening soon though I'd love to be wrong.

[Paddington Bear]

I sincerely hope they do continue to hold the government to account and if the incoming Labour cabinet try to implement a lunatic policy like Brexit then the likes of O'Brien don't let it go, if Labour continually enrich friends at the taxpayer's expense then I expect and hope they make as much noise as possible. If there is corruption then I hope it will be exposed, if there is playing to the extreme of their base then I hope that is called out - but what would be the "Lefty" equivalent of the Rwanda bill and fighting the poor instead of poverty look like? Re-nationalising the railways and water? Re-opening post office branches, huge increase in funding for the NHS, re-introducing checks and balances on the markets and separation of the casino from domestic banking?
Or are we talking little red books and five year plans?

The model for Starmer’s Britain is Khan’s London.
Don’t worry this isn’t a ‘muslamic ray guns 15 minute city’ post.

What I mean is that they’ll do very little, posture a lot and funnel money to centre-left quangos. Will it be better than this? Sure I’d say so. But they’ll fail to achieve anything meaningful or even try and grasp half the issues.

Exactly this.

And in London that's about fine as it's a city full of young, rentes/bomaders, huge poverty/working classes despite the tropes, who rely on public transport, and hate what the Tories have become.

It's not fine in the rest of the country. Starmer/Khan's total vacuum of policy leads us straight to Prime Minister Farage or Badenoch.

I think there’s an underestimation of this:
New Labour ended in foreign policy failure and the GFC
Coalition austerity ended in foreign policy failure and Brexit
Post Brexit Conservatism is ending with the country clearly in decline and not a lot of money in the coffers.

So once Starmer fails to deliver with fairly bog standard social democracy, and the Tories are reduced to a small rump, what next? I don’t see it being centrist euophilia, I think we’ll see something much more radical

[ASMO]

Goodall, James O' Brien, etc.

The interesting point will be how they behave when Labour are in power and don't really achieve anything. How they spin that.

Especially O'Brien. Constantly furious, without ever advancing any solutions.

If you know a way to make an alcoholic quit, I'm sure you'll find an eager & attentive audience ??

You can't force someone who believed in the Brexit bullshit to wipe the scales from their eyes & acknowledge they were duped; they have to work it out in their own. The problem is that it's bloody difficult to get anyone to admit a mistake, & the bigger the mistake, the harder it gets !

How does Labour, delicately, point out that voters were gullible fools when they voted for Brexit, & that they now urgently need to internalize that, & recognize the mistake, & start to reverse it ASAP ?

.
.
.

There's no simple way to reverse such an immense fuckup, you just have to wait for people to work it out for themselves, or for them to die off, & the demographic to shift.

In June last year there was an article that stated that since the Brexit vote 4m people had died and they were mostly leavers - presumably/hopefully it wasn't as crude as "they were old and so leavers", I don't know, but also 5m had come of voting age, again homely more substantial than, "they are young and so retainers" - those numbers will both have increased by now.

I read something the other day along the same lines, that there is now a clear majority in favour of Remain/Rejoin.

Unfortunately I can't see it happening soon though I'd love to be wrong.

The issue is however, even if there was another vote to rejoin, would the EU want us?

[dpedin]

The model for Starmer’s Britain is Khan’s London.
Don’t worry this isn’t a ‘muslamic ray guns 15 minute city’ post.

What I mean is that they’ll do very little, posture a lot and funnel money to centre-left quangos. Will it be better than this? Sure I’d say so. But they’ll fail to achieve anything meaningful or even try and grasp half the issues.

Exactly this.

And in London that's about fine as it's a city full of young, rentes/bomaders, huge poverty/working classes despite the tropes, who rely on public transport, and hate what the Tories have become.

It's not fine in the rest of the country. Starmer/Khan's total vacuum of policy leads us straight to Prime Minister Farage or Badenoch.

I think there’s an underestimation of this:
New Labour ended in foreign policy failure and the GFC
Coalition austerity ended in foreign policy failure and Brexit
Post Brexit Conservatism is ending with the country clearly in decline and not a lot of money in the coffers.

So once Starmer fails to deliver with fairly bog standard social democracy, and the Tories are reduced to a small rump, what next? I don’t see it being centrist euophilia, I think we’ll see something much more radical

After the shower of fuckwits, crooks and sexual deviants we have had in this Gov then anything competent from Labour will be a relief! I suspect it will be a bit like when Biden replaced Trump in US in that everyone will just be relieved we dont have a crook running the country - the likes of Johnson, Truss and Sunak will live long in the memory for their incompetence. lies and general fuckwittery. All Labour have to do is set up a proper, speedy and transparent investigation into the PPE contracts scandal and bring a few of the Tory twats to court and that will satisfy many. Couple this with the investigation into Houchen and the Tory corruption will be in the limelight. Since Brexit many have forgotten what it is like to have normal gov in the UK, I would be happy to revert back to quiet, boring, semi-competent politicians trying to do their best for their constituents. and the country.

[I like neeps]

The model for Starmer’s Britain is Khan’s London.
Don’t worry this isn’t a ‘muslamic ray guns 15 minute city’ post.

What I mean is that they’ll do very little, posture a lot and funnel money to centre-left quangos. Will it be better than this? Sure I’d say so. But they’ll fail to achieve anything meaningful or even try and grasp half the issues.

Exactly this.

And in London that's about fine as it's a city full of young, rentes/bomaders, huge poverty/working classes despite the tropes, who rely on public transport, and hate what the Tories have become.

It's not fine in the rest of the country. Starmer/Khan's total vacuum of policy leads us straight to Prime Minister Farage or Badenoch.

I think there’s an underestimation of this:
New Labour ended in foreign policy failure and the GFC
Coalition austerity ended in foreign policy failure and Brexit
Post Brexit Conservatism is ending with the country clearly in decline and not a lot of money in the coffers.

So once Starmer fails to deliver with fairly bog standard social democracy, and the Tories are reduced to a small rump, what next? I don’t see it being centrist euophilia, I think we’ll see something much more radical

Yes agree on the radical point, and as the UK's newspapers and talking heads are mostly right wing and increasingly mad I just think that's why it's Farage/Badenoch type.

It's what happens across Europe, social democrats are replaced generally by the right wing "fringe".

The reality of centrism is that there's general improvement and not wholesale change. Which is great! Apart from when people want/think they need wholesale change. And as the economy shrinks (I get GDP goes up .1% but everything is getting more expensive and worse generally) people aren't in the mood for competent managerialism.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

If you know a way to make an alcoholic quit, I'm sure you'll find an eager & attentive audience ??

You can't force someone who believed in the Brexit bullshit to wipe the scales from their eyes & acknowledge they were duped; they have to work it out in their own. The problem is that it's bloody difficult to get anyone to admit a mistake, & the bigger the mistake, the harder it gets !

How does Labour, delicately, point out that voters were gullible fools when they voted for Brexit, & that they now urgently need to internalize that, & recognize the mistake, & start to reverse it ASAP ?

.
.
.

There's no simple way to reverse such an immense fuckup, you just have to wait for people to work it out for themselves, or for them to die off, & the demographic to shift.

In June last year there was an article that stated that since the Brexit vote 4m people had died and they were mostly leavers - presumably/hopefully it wasn't as crude as "they were old and so leavers", I don't know, but also 5m had come of voting age, again homely more substantial than, "they are young and so retainers" - those numbers will both have increased by now.

I read something the other day along the same lines, that there is now a clear majority in favour of Remain/Rejoin.

Unfortunately I can't see it happening soon though I'd love to be wrong.

The issue is however, even if there was another vote to rejoin, would the EU want us?

Yes, but not on the back of a slim referendum win with one or more major parties being against leading to flip flopping in position. If we want in they'd want a certain confidence they're not just wasting a lot of time and money, and that looks quite some time off.

Still, it took Farage decades to write billions a week off the value of Britain, if it takes decades to get back it takes decades.

[Tichtheid]

If you know a way to make an alcoholic quit, I'm sure you'll find an eager & attentive audience ??

You can't force someone who believed in the Brexit bullshit to wipe the scales from their eyes & acknowledge they were duped; they have to work it out in their own. The problem is that it's bloody difficult to get anyone to admit a mistake, & the bigger the mistake, the harder it gets !

How does Labour, delicately, point out that voters were gullible fools when they voted for Brexit, & that they now urgently need to internalize that, & recognize the mistake, & start to reverse it ASAP ?

.
.
.

There's no simple way to reverse such an immense fuckup, you just have to wait for people to work it out for themselves, or for them to die off, & the demographic to shift.

In June last year there was an article that stated that since the Brexit vote 4m people had died and they were mostly leavers - presumably/hopefully it wasn't as crude as "they were old and so leavers", I don't know, but also 5m had come of voting age, again homely more substantial than, "they are young and so retainers" - those numbers will both have increased by now.

I read something the other day along the same lines, that there is now a clear majority in favour of Remain/Rejoin.

Unfortunately I can't see it happening soon though I'd love to be wrong.

The issue is however, even if there was another vote to rejoin, would the EU want us?

I think they would, but they would rightly seek assurances that we weren't wasting their time, so there wouldn't be the exceptionalist terms such as the rebate and we'd probably need to commit to adopting the Euro - just like any other applicant would.

I think it will be a long time before that is a palatable option for the UK electorate, in the meantime there could closer links such as those the EEA countries have but of course that comes without a vote in directing policy.

They really did salt the earth behind them in the Brexit vote

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't think the EU would push for the €, or at least if they did they'd simply be saying we don't want you back (for now), because that's just the stuff of fantasy getting that past anything like the current electorate, I might not vote for that (I might, it's just far from certain in advance) and I'm still livid about Brexit. The rebate, well maybe, but I don't actually care about the rebate in isolation. The point of the rebate was Britain wasn't going to get the same farm subsidies as certain other nations, so if CAP reform can be looked at (or indeed the wider funding model) you don't need a rebate as such. There would of course be problems with bad actors presenting the rebate and wider terms in manners which sit at odds with reality, that would be a problem, but the rebate isn't possibly something to be too worried about in practical terms.

[dpedin]

In June last year there was an article that stated that since the Brexit vote 4m people had died and they were mostly leavers - presumably/hopefully it wasn't as crude as "they were old and so leavers", I don't know, but also 5m had come of voting age, again homely more substantial than, "they are young and so retainers" - those numbers will both have increased by now.

I read something the other day along the same lines, that there is now a clear majority in favour of Remain/Rejoin.

Unfortunately I can't see it happening soon though I'd love to be wrong.

The issue is however, even if there was another vote to rejoin, would the EU want us?

I think they would, but they would rightly seek assurances that we weren't wasting their time, so there wouldn't be the exceptionalist terms such as the rebate and we'd probably need to commit to adopting the Euro - just like any other applicant would.

I think it will be a long time before that is a palatable option for the UK electorate, in the meantime there could closer links such as those the EEA countries have but of course that comes without a vote in directing policy.

They really did salt the earth behind them in the Brexit vote

Let's start with joining the Single Market and the Customs Union or revised versions of both that would allow freer movement of goods, services and people. This would at least stop the huge self harm we are doing to ourselves economically and present a pathway to some form of full membership sometime in the future. Given the huge levels of legal immigration we have at the moment then I don't think anyone will notice the impact of FoM of people, indeed many would welcome it in both directions. We need to do something before we implement all the daft and disruptive barriers to trade and movement at the borders due to be implemented later this year having been delayed on numerous occasions.

[Paddington Bear]

Exactly this.

And in London that's about fine as it's a city full of young, rentes/bomaders, huge poverty/working classes despite the tropes, who rely on public transport, and hate what the Tories have become.

It's not fine in the rest of the country. Starmer/Khan's total vacuum of policy leads us straight to Prime Minister Farage or Badenoch.

I think there’s an underestimation of this:
New Labour ended in foreign policy failure and the GFC
Coalition austerity ended in foreign policy failure and Brexit
Post Brexit Conservatism is ending with the country clearly in decline and not a lot of money in the coffers.

So once Starmer fails to deliver with fairly bog standard social democracy, and the Tories are reduced to a small rump, what next? I don’t see it being centrist euophilia, I think we’ll see something much more radical

After the shower of fuckwits, crooks and sexual deviants we have had in this Gov then anything competent from Labour will be a relief! I suspect it will be a bit like when Biden replaced Trump in US in that everyone will just be relieved we dont have a crook running the country - the likes of Johnson, Truss and Sunak will live long in the memory for their incompetence. lies and general fuckwittery. All Labour have to do is set up a proper, speedy and transparent investigation into the PPE contracts scandal and bring a few of the Tory twats to court and that will satisfy many. Couple this with the investigation into Houchen and the Tory corruption will be in the limelight. Since Brexit many have forgotten what it is like to have normal gov in the UK, I would be happy to revert back to quiet, boring, semi-competent politicians trying to do their best for their constituents. and the country.

You are assuming that they are competent, and I am saying that if Khan’s mayoralty is anything to go by they are not

[dpedin]

I think there’s an underestimation of this:
New Labour ended in foreign policy failure and the GFC
Coalition austerity ended in foreign policy failure and Brexit
Post Brexit Conservatism is ending with the country clearly in decline and not a lot of money in the coffers.

So once Starmer fails to deliver with fairly bog standard social democracy, and the Tories are reduced to a small rump, what next? I don’t see it being centrist euophilia, I think we’ll see something much more radical

After the shower of fuckwits, crooks and sexual deviants we have had in this Gov then anything competent from Labour will be a relief! I suspect it will be a bit like when Biden replaced Trump in US in that everyone will just be relieved we dont have a crook running the country - the likes of Johnson, Truss and Sunak will live long in the memory for their incompetence. lies and general fuckwittery. All Labour have to do is set up a proper, speedy and transparent investigation into the PPE contracts scandal and bring a few of the Tory twats to court and that will satisfy many. Couple this with the investigation into Houchen and the Tory corruption will be in the limelight. Since Brexit many have forgotten what it is like to have normal gov in the UK, I would be happy to revert back to quiet, boring, semi-competent politicians trying to do their best for their constituents. and the country.

You are assuming that they are competent, and I am saying that if Khan’s mayoralty is anything to go by they are not

In the Land of the Blind the one eyed man is king!

[petej]

I've drawn to the conclusion that politicians main skillsets are bullshitting and sucking up to people (particularly senior politicians). This is made worse by a political structure that leads to two main parties. People who are good at making things work probably have the polar opposite personalities - a low tolerance of bullshit and little interest in sucking up to people.

[fishfoodie]

I don't think the EU would push for the €, or at least if they did they'd simply be saying we don't want you back (for now), because that's just the stuff of fantasy getting that past anything like the current electorate, I might not vote for that (I might, it's just far from certain in advance) and I'm still livid about Brexit. The rebate, well maybe, but I don't actually care about the rebate in isolation. The point of the rebate was Britain wasn't going to get the same farm subsidies as certain other nations, so if CAP reform can be looked at (or indeed the wider funding model) you don't need a rebate as such. There would of course be problems with bad actors presenting the rebate and wider terms in manners which sit at odds with reality, that would be a problem, but the rebate isn't possibly something to be too worried about in practical terms.

I think the EU would have to !

First, there was real resentment of the exceptions that the UK had carved for themselves, & these all bubbled back up again during Brexit, & the new entrant Countries would absolutely block attempts for the UK to reset the clock back to their prior position.

Second, & much more importantly, the EU won't accept a UK application if they aren't convinced that there won't be another Referendum to leave in a decade or so, & the UK can't provide any Political guarantees that are worth a damn, because of the way your Democracy is structured, so the best hope the EU have of making another Brexit unpalatable is to lock you in thru the Euro.

[SaintK]

I think there’s an underestimation of this:
New Labour ended in foreign policy failure and the GFC
Coalition austerity ended in foreign policy failure and Brexit
Post Brexit Conservatism is ending with the country clearly in decline and not a lot of money in the coffers.

So once Starmer fails to deliver with fairly bog standard social democracy, and the Tories are reduced to a small rump, what next? I don’t see it being centrist euophilia, I think we’ll see something much more radical

After the shower of fuckwits, crooks and sexual deviants we have had in this Gov then anything competent from Labour will be a relief! I suspect it will be a bit like when Biden replaced Trump in US in that everyone will just be relieved we dont have a crook running the country - the likes of Johnson, Truss and Sunak will live long in the memory for their incompetence. lies and general fuckwittery. All Labour have to do is set up a proper, speedy and transparent investigation into the PPE contracts scandal and bring a few of the Tory twats to court and that will satisfy many. Couple this with the investigation into Houchen and the Tory corruption will be in the limelight. Since Brexit many have forgotten what it is like to have normal gov in the UK, I would be happy to revert back to quiet, boring, semi-competent politicians trying to do their best for their constituents. and the country.

You are assuming that they are competent, and I am saying that if Khan’s mayoralty is anything to go by they are not

You wait and see what competence is all about if the Trumpist, anti-immigrant, half-wit Tory candidate Susan Hall gets in

[Paddington Bear]

Angela van den Bogerd up at the Post Office inquiry this morning. Very clearly perjured herself previously

[epwc]

You wait and see what competence is all about if the Trumpist, anti-immigrant, half-wit Tory candidate Susan Hall gets in

She's very special. I can't believe that's the best the Tories could offer.

[epwc]

I don't think the EU would push for the €, or at least if they did they'd simply be saying we don't want you back (for now), because that's just the stuff of fantasy getting that past anything like the current electorate, I might not vote for that (I might, it's just far from certain in advance) and I'm still livid about Brexit. The rebate, well maybe, but I don't actually care about the rebate in isolation. The point of the rebate was Britain wasn't going to get the same farm subsidies as certain other nations, so if CAP reform can be looked at (or indeed the wider funding model) you don't need a rebate as such. There would of course be problems with bad actors presenting the rebate and wider terms in manners which sit at odds with reality, that would be a problem, but the rebate isn't possibly something to be too worried about in practical terms.

I think the EU would have to !

First, there was real resentment of the exceptions that the UK had carved for themselves, & these all bubbled back up again during Brexit, & the new entrant Countries would absolutely block attempts for the UK to reset the clock back to their prior position.

Second, & much more importantly, the EU won't accept a UK application if they aren't convinced that there won't be another Referendum to leave in a decade or so, & the UK can't provide any Political guarantees that are worth a damn, because of the way your Democracy is structured, so the best hope the EU have of making another Brexit unpalatable is to lock you in thru the Euro.

Right now the value of the pound has led to huge numbers of UK companies being bought by foreign competitors. I'd welcome a return to the EC and the adoption of the Euro.

We need more integration not less.

[petej]

I don't like the focus on trying to get back into the EU over moving away from fucked past the post.

[Hal Jordan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68874822

Have we done the two lads being arrested on charges of being a succulent Chinese spy yet?

Also three people in Germany, including an aide to the AfD party (far right arseholes).

[Slick]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68874822

Have we done the two lads being arrested on charges of being a succulent Chinese spy yet?

Also three people in Germany, including an aide to the AfD party (far right arseholes).

A fine George Watson's boy indeed!

[Biffer]

Laurence fox is fairly well described by the judge in his libel trial



“An unfastidiousness about objective factuality” is a tremendous phrase.

[Camroc2]

I don't think the EU would push for the €, or at least if they did they'd simply be saying we don't want you back (for now), because that's just the stuff of fantasy getting that past anything like the current electorate, I might not vote for that (I might, it's just far from certain in advance) and I'm still livid about Brexit. The rebate, well maybe, but I don't actually care about the rebate in isolation. The point of the rebate was Britain wasn't going to get the same farm subsidies as certain other nations, so if CAP reform can be looked at (or indeed the wider funding model) you don't need a rebate as such. There would of course be problems with bad actors presenting the rebate and wider terms in manners which sit at odds with reality, that would be a problem, but the rebate isn't possibly something to be too worried about in practical terms.

It is EU policy that all new entrants must commit to joining the Euro when the country's economy allows it.

There won't be any opt outs for the UK.

[Biffer]

I don't think the EU would push for the €, or at least if they did they'd simply be saying we don't want you back (for now), because that's just the stuff of fantasy getting that past anything like the current electorate, I might not vote for that (I might, it's just far from certain in advance) and I'm still livid about Brexit. The rebate, well maybe, but I don't actually care about the rebate in isolation. The point of the rebate was Britain wasn't going to get the same farm subsidies as certain other nations, so if CAP reform can be looked at (or indeed the wider funding model) you don't need a rebate as such. There would of course be problems with bad actors presenting the rebate and wider terms in manners which sit at odds with reality, that would be a problem, but the rebate isn't possibly something to be too worried about in practical terms.

It is EU policy that all new entrants must commit to joining the Euro when the country's economy allows it.

There won't be any opt outs for the UK.

It is, however the EU has a very pragmatic approach to its own rules when it wants to.

[Camroc2]

I don't think the EU would push for the €, or at least if they did they'd simply be saying we don't want you back (for now), because that's just the stuff of fantasy getting that past anything like the current electorate, I might not vote for that (I might, it's just far from certain in advance) and I'm still livid about Brexit. The rebate, well maybe, but I don't actually care about the rebate in isolation. The point of the rebate was Britain wasn't going to get the same farm subsidies as certain other nations, so if CAP reform can be looked at (or indeed the wider funding model) you don't need a rebate as such. There would of course be problems with bad actors presenting the rebate and wider terms in manners which sit at odds with reality, that would be a problem, but the rebate isn't possibly something to be too worried about in practical terms.

It is EU policy that all new entrants must commit to joining the Euro when the country's economy allows it.

There won't be any opt outs for the UK.

It is, however the EU has a very pragmatic approach to its own rules when it wants to.

New entrants need to be approved by all existing members.

A couple of years ago you had a UK minister threatening Ireland with starvation.

Think about it.

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat ... 8-Dec2018/

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't think the EU would push for the €, or at least if they did they'd simply be saying we don't want you back (for now), because that's just the stuff of fantasy getting that past anything like the current electorate, I might not vote for that (I might, it's just far from certain in advance) and I'm still livid about Brexit. The rebate, well maybe, but I don't actually care about the rebate in isolation. The point of the rebate was Britain wasn't going to get the same farm subsidies as certain other nations, so if CAP reform can be looked at (or indeed the wider funding model) you don't need a rebate as such. There would of course be problems with bad actors presenting the rebate and wider terms in manners which sit at odds with reality, that would be a problem, but the rebate isn't possibly something to be too worried about in practical terms.

It is EU policy that all new entrants must commit to joining the Euro when the country's economy allows it.

There won't be any opt outs for the UK.

A choice they're perfectly entitled to make. It simply means the UK wouldn't return to the SM or as a net contributor, at least I would consider it shits over any chance of selling the deal at a UK domestic level, we're a ways off being able to sell rejoining on the terms we once had (and this isn't a hope those terms should be made more favourable still, I don't think they should be). But campaigning to rejoin without the rebate and moving to the € looks dead in the water before it even starts as a prospect to sell to voters.

I'd think it odd if the EU didn't want the UK back on the terms it once had. I can see they'd not want us rejoining only to leave or even threaten to leave. But for all it'd be an odd call to my way of thinking we couldn't say we'd be blame free given the 2016 vote, that could just be it now, for my lifetime anyway

Maybe we do get a big shift in UK political thinking across huge swathes of the electorate, I'd probably welcome much of such shift in national thinking. It just seems vanishingly unlikely

[Insane_Homer]

Re-joining the EU would most likely require another referendum.

If the vote is to re-join and then it's stated that we'd have to adopt the Euro to do so, we could simple claim that we knew what they were voting for.

[Biffer]

It is EU policy that all new entrants must commit to joining the Euro when the country's economy allows it.

There won't be any opt outs for the UK.

It is, however the EU has a very pragmatic approach to its own rules when it wants to.

New entrants need to be approved by all existing members.

A couple of years ago you had a UK minister threatening Ireland with starvation.

Think about it.

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat ... 8-Dec2018/

I know. It’s a typically arrogant British attitude that we’d just be allowed back in, because hey, who wouldn’t want us? We’re British after all. Thirty years minimum.

[SaintK]

Thick as mince!!!!

[TB63]

[SaintK]

[Tichtheid]

The Tories’ poisonous anti-culture politics has crushed the arts. Bring on election night
Polly Toynbee

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ght-labour

[Biffer]

The Tories’ poisonous anti-culture politics has crushed the arts. Bring on election night
Polly Toynbee

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ght-labour

And these absolute bellends don't realise how important arts and culture is to regeneration. Look at Manchester - a significant part of its redevelopment ahs been based around art and culture. The creative sector is heavily tied in to the digital and media industry, Art attracts tourism, investment in arts and culture centres provide hubs around which other economic activity happens, and artists are generally surviving on low pay so they play a massive part in bringing neglected areas up because that's where they can afford to live - they make places 'cool' and tend to be very involved in local organisations when they live somewhere, and foster a growing sense of community.

[epwc]

Or how much of our economy is driven by culture

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The Tories’ poisonous anti-culture politics has crushed the arts. Bring on election night
Polly Toynbee

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ght-labour

And these absolute bellends don't realise how important arts and culture is to regeneration. Look at Manchester - a significant part of its redevelopment ahs been based around art and culture. The creative sector is heavily tied in to the digital and media industry, Art attracts tourism, investment in arts and culture centres provide hubs around which other economic activity happens, and artists are generally surviving on low pay so they play a massive part in bringing neglected areas up because that's where they can afford to live - they make places 'cool' and tend to be very involved in local organisations when they live somewhere, and foster a growing sense of community.

You can barely get them to show a flicker of interest if you show them how it links into a place like Dundee with genuine software profits to be had. If it's not lining their own pocket or in some way raising their profile or the profile of a stupid culture war they're not interested

[Ymx]

There is only one Boris



Good god

[robmatic]

The Tories’ poisonous anti-culture politics has crushed the arts. Bring on election night
Polly Toynbee

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ght-labour

And these absolute bellends don't realise how important arts and culture is to regeneration. Look at Manchester - a significant part of its redevelopment ahs been based around art and culture. The creative sector is heavily tied in to the digital and media industry, Art attracts tourism, investment in arts and culture centres provide hubs around which other economic activity happens, and artists are generally surviving on low pay so they play a massive part in bringing neglected areas up because that's where they can afford to live - they make places 'cool' and tend to be very involved in local organisations when they live somewhere, and foster a growing sense of community.

They similarly hate the BBC despite it being a pretty strong source of soft power around the world.

[epwc]

The BBC hate is just mental, universally admired pretty much everywhere (but here)

[fishfoodie]

Should have waited till before PMQs to announce !

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nhs-crisis

Next week is going to be brutal for the head boy; this & the locals might force him to call an election just to avoid being unseated.

[Tichtheid]

Should have waited till before PMQs to announce !

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nhs-crisis

Next week is going to be brutal for the head boy; this & the locals might force him to call an election just to avoid being unseated.

Shirley no one would want to lead the Tories into the next election and be tarred with what is sure to be a terrible result for them? I think Sunak is safe for now (ha ha, Sunak autocorrected to Sunk just now)