The one and only UK 2024 election thread - July 4

[_Os_]

I like the idea. Perhaps not the National Service bit but spending 12 weekends working in the community. Other countries can do it so why not UK?
Of course needs thought through more with the devil loitering about in the details but I think it has some merit.

It was common in Communist countries for workers to be forced to work without any form of compensation (however it was done in each system) for a day or two each month, so the workers could show their commitment to socialism or some garbage. Still to this day it harms the idea of volunteering/NGOs/charity/civil society in some eastern European countries. I doubt the right wing newspapers would've been keen if Corbyn proposed this.

If people want to volunteer they can, if people want to join the military they can. If neither is happening, it's because the conditions are shit and it's not worth it. My guess is that if young people aren't interested in volunteering it's for similar reasons to sports clubs shrinking. The economy has gone to shit and especially so for young people, which makes it difficult maintaining what amounts to an additional unpaid job. Even things like the minimal cost of travel to the de facto unpaid job starts becoming an issue. Someone isn't going to be inclined to give anything up if they have nothing to spare.

The Tory's want indentured labourers to fill all the structural holes in the state and private sector they've created. Crazy how often the NHS has been mentioned in connection to this manifesto pledge. Unskilled people with no experience who are unpaid and forced to do the job, are going to be a burden they're not going to fix the NHS. It's all completely mad, the UK is a developed country with high levels of tax, there shouldn't actually be any need for a volunteering sector or food banks or any of the rest of it.

[_Os_]

More National Sevice details emerge, only those who have done their bit will be able to work in the public sector. Would you like to know more?

(I'm not the first person to make this connection)

It’s looking more bonkers with every passing minute, now there’s the suggestion that they’ll fine the parents of 18 yr olds who don’t take up this wonderful offer of mandatory volunteering. You’d almost think this policy was made up on Saturday and written on the back of a packets of fags.

Fining the parents of adults?
UTTER LOONS

They've unintentionally committed themselves to a new manifesto pledge. That a new legal principle should be created whereby the parents of adults can be held responsible for the actions of their adult children, and punished in their stead.

[_Os_]

It was common in Communist countries for workers to be forced to work without any form of compensation (however it was done in each system) for a day or two each month, so the workers could show their commitment to socialism or some garbage. Still to this day it harms the idea of volunteering/NGOs/charity/civil society in some eastern European countries. I doubt the right wing newspapers would've been keen if Corbyn proposed this.

If anyone is interested, these quotes are from the "The ABC of Communism" published by the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1922. "Communist Saturdays" was when people were forced to work without any form of compensation. It was different in each country, from memory post-WW2 in Hungary students and young people were forced into factories, other places it was urban youth onto collective farms, other places it was able bodied adults, other places it was workers rocking up to their place of work on the weekend:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bukhar ... munism.pdf

We dedicate it to the Party which commands an
army of a million men, dwells in the trenches,
administers a vast realm, carts wood on Communist
Saturdays, makes ready for the resurrection day
of mankind.

The communists, the workers' vanguard, gave a striking
example of the new, comradely discipline when they instituted the so-called Communist Saturdays, when they worked
voluntarily and gratuitously, increasing the productivity of
labour far beyond the ordinary.
Comrade Lenin spoke of the Communist Saturdays as " the great
initiative." The Moscow railwaymen were the first among the communists to organise Communist Saturdays, and from the very outset
there was a notable increase in the productivity of their Jabour. On
the Alexander Railway, 5 turners in 4 hours made 80 cylinders (218 %
more than the ordinary production) ; 20 labourers, in 4 hours, assembled 600 poods of scrap iron and 70 carriage springs each weighing
8l poods (300 % more than the ordinary production). This was the
beginning. Thereupon Petrograd adopted the Communist Saturdays,
and organised them on the grand scale.
From Petrograd and Moscow, the Communist Saturdays made
their way int.o the provinces, and non-members of the party began
to work in the same way. The initiative of the Moscow railwaymen
was so effective because they were the pioneers of a new discipline.

A beginning has already been made in the
assignment of tens of thousands of dcsyatinas of soviet
land to various workshops, institutions, and enterprise
which aim at the purposive and organised transfer of town
workers to the soviet farms ; by the creation of market
gardens for individual factories and workshops ; by Communist Saturdays in which urban workers visit neighbouring
villages to help in agricultural labours

[C69]

It’s looking more bonkers with every passing minute, now there’s the suggestion that they’ll fine the parents of 18 yr olds who don’t take up this wonderful offer of mandatory volunteering. You’d almost think this policy was made up on Saturday and written on the back of a packets of fags.

Fining the parents of adults?
UTTER LOONS

They've unintentionally committed themselves to a new manifesto pledge. That a new legal principle should be created whereby the parents of adults can be held responsible for the actions of their adult children, and punished in their stead.

If only Mrs Thatcher at the time was accountable for her son

[tabascoboy]

Outgoing Tory MP suspended for backing Reform to take her seat

As we mentioned earlier, the Conservative MP for Telford, Lucy Allan, had publicly backed the Reform UK candidate in her constituency.

Ms Allan confirmed last year that she would not attempt to retain her seat. Now, the Conservatives have confirmed she has been suspended from the party.

A spokesperson said: "Lucy Allan has been suspended from the Party with immediate effect.

"The people of Telford now have the chance to vote for a dedicated and hardworking new candidate who will put Telford first.

"A vote for Reform is a vote for Keir Starmer."

However, Ms Allan claims she quit. She said: "I have resigned from the Conservative Party to support Alan Adams to be Telford's next MP. "I have known Alan for many years and he is genuinely the best person for the job. I want the best for Telford and I can't just let the Labour candidate have a walkover."

[I like neeps]

I like the idea. Perhaps not the National Service bit but spending 12 weekends working in the community. Other countries can do it so why not UK?
Of course needs thought through more with the devil loitering about in the details but I think it has some merit.

It was common in Communist countries for workers to be forced to work without any form of compensation (however it was done in each system) for a day or two each month, so the workers could show their commitment to socialism or some garbage. Still to this day it harms the idea of volunteering/NGOs/charity/civil society in some eastern European countries. I doubt the right wing newspapers would've been keen if Corbyn proposed this.

If people want to volunteer they can, if people want to join the military they can. If neither is happening, it's because the conditions are shit and it's not worth it. My guess is that if young people aren't interested in volunteering it's for similar reasons to sports clubs shrinking. The economy has gone to shit and especially so for young people, which makes it difficult maintaining what amounts to an additional unpaid job. Even things like the minimal cost of travel to the de facto unpaid job starts becoming an issue. Someone isn't going to be inclined to give anything up if they have nothing to spare.

The Tory's want indentured labourers to fill all the structural holes in the state and private sector they've created. Crazy how often the NHS has been mentioned in connection to this manifesto pledge. Unskilled people with no experience who are unpaid and forced to do the job, are going to be a burden they're not going to fix the NHS. It's all completely mad, the UK is a developed country with high levels of tax, there shouldn't actually be any need for a volunteering sector or food banks or any of the rest of it.

They have forced labour under the guise of volunteering for one day a month in Rwanda. I commend Rishi's commitment to if you can't send anyone to Rwanda bring some Rwanda to Britain.

It just seems mad, a social credit system where people who volunteer get some perks isn't the worst idea ever. Volunteering for the police or NHS just seems mad, the beauracracy of giving under funded services a load of teenagers without skills needed in those services is stupid. But volunteering for loneliness prevention would be good for the UK. Healthwise you'd save a lot of money and have a bit of a nicer place.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Fine idea because Service guarantees Citizenship!

[Sandstorm]

Fine idea because Service guarantees Citizenship!

Would you like to know more ?

[fishfoodie]

Fine idea because Service guarantees Citizenship!

Would you like to know more ?

Is there a nice snappy uniform ?

Can I goosestep ?

[TheNatalShark]

Offer first year salary for recruits £70k with passable living conditions.

[_Os_]

Day Six

Tories pledge a new "quadruple pension lock". I haven't looked into the details and have no real wish to. Looks like more money shovelled at pensioners via a tax break.

Sitting Tory MP endorses the Reform candidate for her own seat. Crazy.

Farage isn't a candidate and isn't the leader of a party, but he's definitely campaigning. Wants this election to be about immigration.

In some places the Tory campaign is running out of money. This Tory MP is the guy who went after Rayner without being able to say what law she broke, his majority is three figures, basically he is gone. His defence of state enforced volunteering includes the claim that the Tories are about the "community and the collective", he does not understand that the state forcing the individual to do something isn't what the Tories claim to be about.

Mercer having to defend the Tory mess of an election campaign, not actually campaigning but trying to explain what the fuck is happening in this Tory campaign. Looks like a broken man.

[tabascoboy]

They're making a big deal of this despite the fact that the recent tax liability is due to their own policy

The big policy pledge of the day is the from the Conservatives - to increase the income pensioners can receive before they are taxed.

The idea is to stop a situation where the basic state pension would be liable for income tax.

It’s worth highlighting that it was Rishi Sunak and the Conservatives who froze income tax thresholds. That has set up the situation where the state pension is set to be higher than the tax free sum pensioners can earn.

Day Six

Tories pledge a new "quadruple pension lock". I haven't looked into the details and have no real wish to. Looks like more money shovelled at pensioners via a tax break.

Sitting Tory MP endorses the Reform candidate for her own seat. Crazy.

Farage isn't a candidate and isn't the leader of a party, but he's definitely campaigning. Wants this election to be about immigration.

In some places the Tory campaign is running out of money. This Tory MP is the guy who went after Rayner without being able to say what law she broke, his majority is three figures, basically he is gone. His defence of state enforced volunteering includes the claim that the Tories are about the "community and the collective", he does not understand that the state forcing the individual to do something isn't what the Tories claim to be about.

Mercer having to defend the Tory mess of an election campaign, not actually campaigning but trying to explain what the fuck is happening in this Tory campaign. Looks like a broken man.

[C69]

Mercer did indeed look like a broken man

[Hal Jordan]

Why in God's name do election strategists think that trying to prove that the Party leader is an ordinary person is a good idea?

We've had Sunak failing to dribble a football and Davey falling off a paddleboard, why do they do it? Just stand in front of a podium, outline your manifesto and fuck off to the War Room or whatever you call it.

No doubt Starmer will shortly appear a canning factory, ostensibly operating some bit of machinery, only to be accidentally covered in unlimited rice pudding when it malfunctions.

[Paddington Bear]

There’s also something a little patronising about the suggestion that the whole country is totally obsessed with football. Just lean in to who you actually are

[petej]

Why in God's name do election strategists think that trying to prove that the Party leader is an ordinary person is a good idea?

We've had Sunak failing to dribble a football and Davey falling off a paddleboard, why do they do it? Just stand in front of a podium, outline your manifesto and fuck off to the War Room or whatever you call it.

No doubt Starmer will shortly appear a canning factory, ostensibly operating some bit of machinery, only to be accidentally covered in unlimited rice pudding when it malfunctions.

Falling of a paddleboard is pretty normal for anybody. Think my 5 year old is genuinely better at football than sunak. Why don't they pick a physical activity they are good at.

[sockwithaticket]

According to the author of the recent Starmer biography, apparently Starmer is legitimately a big football fan. Unfortunately for him, we've all seen far too many politicians obviously feigning interest, so the assumption will be that he is too.

An awful lot of voters are low information.

There's a pollster who does the rounds a bit, forget his name, but a tall fella with dark hair, who says one thing that consistently comes up in focus groups is that people think Starmer's title is hereditary and that he's really posh. Hence why we keep hearing 'son of toolmaker' ad nauseum.

[sockwithaticket]

Why in God's name do election strategists think that trying to prove that the Party leader is an ordinary person is a good idea?

We've had Sunak failing to dribble a football and Davey falling off a paddleboard, why do they do it? Just stand in front of a podium, outline your manifesto and fuck off to the War Room or whatever you call it.

No doubt Starmer will shortly appear a canning factory, ostensibly operating some bit of machinery, only to be accidentally covered in unlimited rice pudding when it malfunctions.

Falling of a paddleboard is pretty normal for anybody. Think my 5 year old is genuinely better at football than sunak. Why don't they pick a physical activity they are good at.

Sneering at the poors would probably go over worse than being shit at footie tbf.

[Hal Jordan]

To be fair, we've seen Sunak failing at non-athletic pursuits such as fueling a pauper's car he borrowed and using a credit card, so why not see him in his natural place of last boy to get picked for the team at breaktime?

[petej]

To be fair, we've seen Sunak failing at non-athletic pursuits such as fueling a pauper's car he borrowed and using a credit card, so why not see him in his natural place of last boy to get picked for the team at breaktime?

The true privilege of always failing upwards.

[I like neeps]

According to the author of the recent Starmer biography, apparently Starmer is legitimately a big football fan. Unfortunately for him, we've all seen far too many politicians obviously feigning interest, so the assumption will be that he is too.

An awful lot of voters are low information.

There's a pollster who does the rounds a bit, forget his name, but a tall fella with dark hair, who says one thing that consistently comes up in focus groups is that people think Starmer's title is hereditary and that he's really posh. Hence why we keep hearing 'son of toolmaker' ad nauseum.

It is because Starmer is so buttoned up where he has genuine passion for football (plays it weekly with his friends from childhood I believe) it just sounds perfunctory like Cameron or Prince William.

Compare with even Gordon Brown:
https://x.com/ScotlandSky/status/179371 ... Bb7kw&s=19

You'd never see Starmer speak with this much passion. Do think to be fair it's easier to sound passionate about Raith than Arsenal too.

I also don't think it's bad to see politicians flail at something. Everyone falls off paddle boards and who needs to look good at football. See also, eating bacon sandwiches.

[epwc]

This'd be good

https://x.com/CountBinface/status/1795204242489086383

The Count vs the Cunt

[Paddington Bear]

Brown has a lot more confidence out of office. It’s always easier to do this stuff when you’re not under the microscope

[Hal Jordan]

I won't be happy until I see a politician standing proudly next to a beer pump, having pulled a pint that is 80% head.

[_Os_]

I've come up with some Os pledges:

1. Tax breaks for the under 35s, abolishing the lower minimum wage for young people bringing it inline with other adults (this is a real Labour pledge), abolishing NIMBYs. This will be called "the triple lock".
2. State enforced volunteering for the over 60s. Every weekend they will be sent to the fruit farms, the hospitality industry, the haulage industry, the border force and will work for nothing or lose their state pension. They are too anti-social and racist, in their own bubble, and have only taken their whole lives and never given back. This will be called "Brexit Saturdays".

[I like neeps]

Brown has a lot more confidence out of office. It’s always easier to do this stuff when you’re not under the microscope

Very true as well.

[I like neeps]

https://x.com/thhamilton/status/1795460 ... e8pPQ&s=19

The telegraph has to be the most insane newspaper in Britain by some way these days.

[Insane_Homer]

Will Kermitler's big idea to stop the immigrants be to rejoining the EU?

[_Os_]

https://x.com/thhamilton/status/1795460 ... e8pPQ&s=19

The telegraph has to be the most insane newspaper in Britain by some way these days.

It's been full on swivel eyed loony for years, more far gone than the Mail or Express now. Brexit cooked Tory brains.

The national service thing has been some ride. What we've discovered so far: a lot of people are confused about when people become adults and how the law works (punishing their parents, that moron thinking children were in full time salaried employment during Covid), a lot of people don't care/know/realise those they wish to target sacrificed crucial years of their education during Covid so the old wouldn't die.

[petej]

https://x.com/thhamilton/status/1795460 ... e8pPQ&s=19

The telegraph has to be the most insane newspaper in Britain by some way these days.

That is insane. That age group was at very low risk from covid so benefited least from lockdown unlike the elderly, those in poor health and/or overweight.

[Hal Jordan]

As an aside, Greater Manchester Police have announced no further action is to be taken against Angela Rayner.

Dan Hodges is having the anger wank of a lifetime as we speak.

[sockwithaticket]

As an aside, Greater Manchester Police have announced no further action is to be taken against Angela Rayner.

Dan Hodges is having the anger wank of a lifetime as we speak.

What a surprise.

If I were Rayner I'd demand that the two slimeballs responsible for leaning on the police over this non-issue (Richard Holden and James Daly) publicly apologise.

[Lobby]

As an aside, Greater Manchester Police have announced no further action is to be taken against Angela Rayner.

Dan Hodges is having the anger wank of a lifetime as we speak.

Its not quite as simple as that. Although GMP have said they are taking no further action, they also said this was because "matters involving council tax and personal tax do not fall into the jurisdiction of policing" (although quite why it took dozens of police investigators this long to realise that none of the allegations made against her fell under their jurisdiction is a mystery) and that they had passed information to the local Council and HMRC.

The local Council has also now confirmed no case for action (we always knew this would be the result of the electoral register allegations as they have to be brought within a year of any offence).

So its now up to HMRC to decide if she was potentially liable for Capital Gains Tax of around £1500. I'd be very surprised if there is any real tax issue.

Presumably Dan Hodges is even now in contact with his Tory handlers to work out what his response should be.

[Tichtheid]

"It is understood that HMRC also looked into the issue at the request of Rayner, and have confirmed there is no capital gains tax liability, meaning no action will be taken."

[Lobby]

The Guardian's politics blog has commented on the Rayner case going nowhere:

This is the second time a police inquiry into Labour launched at the behest of the Tories has gone nowhere.

In the so-called beergate affair, Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner were accused of breaking lockdown rules after Starmer was photographed drinking beer in an office with Labour staff when they had a takeaway meal while working late during the local election campaign in 2021. Starmer and Rayner said they would resign if they were found to have done anything wrong. An inquiry by Durham police concluded that they hadn’t.

The allegations received extensive coverage, particularly in the Daily Mail, and the Conservative MP Richard Holden was particularly prominent in demanding a full investigation. He was later promoted and appointed Conservative party chair.

James Daly, the current deputy chair, was instrumental in persuading Greater Manchester police to carry out a full inquiry into the various allegations about Rayner. These allegations, also reported endlessly by the Mail, were prompted by revelations about Rayner’s living arrangements when she bought her first house published in a biography by Lord Ashcroft, who is a former Tory deputy chair. When Greater Manchester police initially decided the complaints weren’t worth investigating, Daly complained.

The Tories pushed the the beergate story when Boris Johnson was under pressure over Partygate, and they clearly wanted to imply equivalance; that lockdown rules were being ignored by people from all parties.

But the police inquiry into Partygate did lead to action. Some 83 people were fined, including Boris Johnson, the then PM, and Rishi Sunak, the then chancellor.

As they point out, lots of sound and fury from the Tory press, but no charges for either Starmer or Rayner, in contrast to Sunak, who was fined by the Met Police for his lawbreaking. Its worth remembering as well that the Tories were quite happy for Zahawi to be appointed as the Chancellor at the same time that he was negotiating a deal with HMRC over his £4m tax bill for unpaid taxes.

[Insane_Homer]

Thoughts and prayers with Dan Hodges at this difficult time

[C69]

The polls are crazy ATM.
Sky has Labour with a 27% lead and the Telegraph has Labour with a 12% lead.
The Lib Dems and Labour are basically tacitly calling for anyone but the Tories now and are not even bothering to campaign where they may be the third Party.
Only a few more days left to decide the candidates now.

[sturginho]

The Torygraph has a poll which flatters the Tories? Well colour me shocked!

[SaintK]

Thoughts and prayers with Dan Hodges at this difficult time

not a peep out of him!

[Lobby]

The JLP poll quoted by the Torygraph is very much an outlier. All the other polls are pretty consistent with Labour on about 45% and the Tories around 23%, and that doesn't seem to have shifted much at all since the campaign started.