Kicking off in Israel

[C69]

Fucking savages

[Slick]

Fucking savages

Yup, I'm afraid that's pretty much where I am now. Fuck Israel.

[C69]

Fucking savages

Yup, I'm afraid that's pretty much where I am now. Fuck Israel.

Both sides are utterly disgusting.
But by fuck this is deliberate and just punishment

[Hugo]

https://x.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1795041573224206368

A dollar short and a day late.

[laurent]

https://x.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1795041573224206368

A dollar short and a day late.

He and the government have attacked relentlessly any one demonstrating against the Israeli actions.

[fishfoodie]

Fucking savages

Yup, I'm afraid that's pretty much where I am now. Fuck Israel.

Both sides are utterly disgusting.
But by fuck this is deliberate and just punishment

The difference is one side claims to be a Nation state, with Laws & Treaties, while we all know the other, "side" are terrorists; but what we all knew was coming is now upon us; it's impossible to distinguish between two sets of terrorists & murderers.

[Slick]

Yup, I'm afraid that's pretty much where I am now. Fuck Israel.

Both sides are utterly disgusting.
But by fuck this is deliberate and just punishment

The difference is one side claims to be a Nation state, with Laws & Treaties, while we all know the other, "side" are terrorists; but what we all knew was coming is now upon us; it's impossible to distinguish between two sets of terrorists & murderers.

That’s what I can’t get my head around, all I’ve heard all day is various Israelis saying “how can you compare us, we are the democracy” etc. Well fucking act like one

Edit: although that then immediately makes you think of the USA’s actions after 9/11. We all knew it would give the green light to others to do what the fuck they want, and here we are

[fishfoodie]

Both sides are utterly disgusting.
But by fuck this is deliberate and just punishment

The difference is one side claims to be a Nation state, with Laws & Treaties, while we all know the other, "side" are terrorists; but what we all knew was coming is now upon us; it's impossible to distinguish between two sets of terrorists & murderers.

That’s what I can’t get my head around, all I’ve heard all day is various Israelis saying “how can you compare us, we are the democracy” etc. Well fucking act like one

Edit: although that then immediately makes you think of the USA’s actions after 9/11. We all knew it would give the green light to others to do what the fuck they want, and here we are

The US did in public view, what they & Israel did more privately before.

Israel didn't need to carry out a ground war beyond the first week or so, it was just to prop up Bibi's image as the hard man, who Israel needed to protect them.

Israel could have just did, as it did after Munich, & throughout the entire history of the Country, & just sent out Mossad assassins to kill their enemies, thru targeted assassination !

That isn't nearly as useful if you're a Politician whose presided over the greatest lapse in security. Bibi needed big, he needed a state of war so he could tell people to rally around, & he needed to placate the settlers.

[Uncle fester]

And if you wanted to be even more depressed, the disgusting murder of a teenage boy has been used to justify a wave of terror against multiple villages, most of whom couldn't have had anything to do with the original crime.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-69052857

[epwc]

Nice to see some politicians doing the right thing:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aza-policy

[Uncle fester]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... dApp_Other

And she's supposed to be one of the sensible Republicans.

[fishfoodie]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... dApp_Other

And she's supposed to be one of the sensible Republicans.

She also wants to be Vice-President, & then President

[Slick]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... dApp_Other

And she's supposed to be one of the sensible Republicans.

She also wants to be Vice-President, & then President

Yup, has now said she will vote for Trump.

[C69]

Hopefully Benny Gantz recent actions will bring some sense to Israel and eventually lead to Bibi going to trial.

[Hugo]

Writing on a bomb. These people are so classy aren't they?

[geordie_6]

Biden has set out a three phase proposal to end the war in Gaza. Link included below but its from a live BBC blog so could end up buried.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-u ... a-69081352

PHASE ONE

It would begin with a six-week ceasefire, during which the IDF would withdraw from populated areas of Gaza
Hamas would release "a number" of hostages - including women, the elderly and the wounded - in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Some remains of dead Israeli hostages would be returned to their families
Palestinian civilians would return to their homes in all areas of Gaza
Humanitarian assistance would "surge", with 600 trucks a day entering the strip, and hundreds of thousands of temporary housing units sent by the international community

During that six week period, negotiations mediated by the US and Qatar would continue. If successful, the next part of the plan would begin.

PHASE TWO

Release of all remaining living hostages, including male soldiers
Full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza
The ceasefire would be upgraded to the "cessation of hostilities permanently"

PHASE THREE

Any final remains of Israeli hostages in Gaza would be returned
A "major reconstruction plan" for Gaza would commence, including US and international assistance to rebuild homes, schools and hospitals

[C69]

Biden has set out a three phase proposal to end the war in Gaza. Link included below but its from a live BBC blog so could end up buried.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-u ... a-69081352

PHASE ONE

It would begin with a six-week ceasefire, during which the IDF would withdraw from populated areas of Gaza
Hamas would release "a number" of hostages - including women, the elderly and the wounded - in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Some remains of dead Israeli hostages would be returned to their families
Palestinian civilians would return to their homes in all areas of Gaza
Humanitarian assistance would "surge", with 600 trucks a day entering the strip, and hundreds of thousands of temporary housing units sent by the international community

During that six week period, negotiations mediated by the US and Qatar would continue. If successful, the next part of the plan would begin.

PHASE TWO

Release of all remaining living hostages, including male soldiers
Full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza
The ceasefire would be upgraded to the "cessation of hostilities permanently"

PHASE THREE

Any final remains of Israeli hostages in Gaza would be returned
A "major reconstruction plan" for Gaza would commence, including US and international assistance to rebuild homes, schools and hospitals

Removal of troops from Gaza and the West Bank?

[Uncle fester]

Biden has set out a three phase proposal to end the war in Gaza. Link included below but its from a live BBC blog so could end up buried.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-u ... a-69081352

PHASE ONE

It would begin with a six-week ceasefire, during which the IDF would withdraw from populated areas of Gaza
Hamas would release "a number" of hostages - including women, the elderly and the wounded - in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Some remains of dead Israeli hostages would be returned to their families
Palestinian civilians would return to their homes in all areas of Gaza
Humanitarian assistance would "surge", with 600 trucks a day entering the strip, and hundreds of thousands of temporary housing units sent by the international community

During that six week period, negotiations mediated by the US and Qatar would continue. If successful, the next part of the plan would begin.

PHASE TWO

Release of all remaining living hostages, including male soldiers
Full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza
The ceasefire would be upgraded to the "cessation of hostilities permanently"

PHASE THREE

Any final remains of Israeli hostages in Gaza would be returned
A "major reconstruction plan" for Gaza would commence, including US and international assistance to rebuild homes, schools and hospitals

Removal of troops from Gaza and the West Bank?

Don't be silly now. Israel will insist on the entire West bank as "reparations".

[C69]

It would be time for the USA to stop all support for Israel and let them fend for them self if they refuse Biden's plan and Hamas agree with it.
Israel close to shooting them self in the foot time and time again.

[fishfoodie]

It would be time for the USA to stop all support for Israel and let them fend for them self if they refuse Biden's plan and Hamas agree with it.
Israel close to shooting them self in the foot time and time again.

Not going to happen in an Election year.

[Flockwitt]

Did you not see the GOP motion to force Biden to ship weapons to Israel immediately without condition? You know, the same people who started the witch hunt of university deans that were too soft on anti-semite protests. It's going to be a cold day in hell before the US heads down that route.

[fishfoodie]

Did you not see the GOP motion to force Biden to ship weapons to Israel immediately without condition? You know, the same people who started the witch hunt of university deans that were too soft on anti-semite protests. It's going to be a cold day in hell before the US heads down that route.

The same GOP morons who think the Ukrainian President is a Nazi .... yes, the Jewish one, that they refuse to support with arms.

So the lesson to all Jews is, if you want the support if the GOP; move to Israel !, because they don't give a fuck about you otherwise.

[C69]

My point is Israel only exist a state if it is an American satellite.
It sucks at the teat if it has the milk withdrawn it is is basket case.

[Enzedder]

My point is Israel only exist a state if it is an American satellite.
It sucks at the teat if it has the milk withdrawn it is is basket case.

Isn't it sad that they are forced to do that to survive? You know what would happen if they didn't have that support - it would rival the holocaust.

[C69]

My point is Israel only exist a state if it is an American satellite.
It sucks at the teat if it has the milk withdrawn it is is basket case.

Isn't it sad that they are forced to do that to survive? You know what would happen if they didn't have that support - it would rival the holocaust.

It's a defacto an American theocracy.
That's why in the end they need to take heed and not have Bibi being a big man.
Without America they are bully that will be squashed without very big brother to punish their enemies.
A little satellite state formed recently that can't survive with a Superpower being their sugar daddy.
Yet Bibi thinks he is da bomb...

[Guy Smiley]

My point is Israel only exist a state if it is an American satellite.
It sucks at the teat if it has the milk withdrawn it is is basket case.

Isn't it sad that they are forced to do that to survive? You know what would happen if they didn't have that support - it would rival the holocaust.

For most of my life, I would have been somewhere right behind you with this stance. Key stories from the ME over the years along with the memory of the Munich Olympics killings and the daring raid into Entebbe served to solidify my support for the Israelis and their right to flourish.

This conflict has turned my perspective on its head. I had misgivings from the beginning regarding the background to October 7th... we all got the sensational headlines regarding the raid by Hamas forces and the resulting deaths and there is no doubt in my mind regarding the barbaric nature of the action, I have no sympathy for the actions or policies of Hamas. What we didn't get in the flood of outrage was the stories relating to the ongoing murder of Palestinian civilians going back years and the shock at the taking of hostages left no room for talk about the casual imprisonment of Palestinians without trial or charge in their thousands.

I do have concerns for the Palestinians themselves though. We talk about Israel's right to survive and defend itself but that comes at the cost of those Palestinian lives uprooted violently from their homeland where they lived and flourished long before the creation of the nation of Israel.

Don't they also have the same right to survive? Don't they have the same right to flourish on their land?

When you talk about rivalling the holocaust, a shocking episode in human history that rightly casts a chilling shadow... shouldn't we pause and consider the current actions of Israel as beginning to be that rival?

When we look at the ongoing offensive in Gaza and the justifications offered up by Netanyahu why don't we also look at the increasing brutality carried out by settlers in the West Bank with tacit support from the IDF?

These are not actions driven by the need for self defense. These are the actions of a blood thirsty murderer hell bent on vengeance and the stealing of land.

[Enzedder]

So many Israelis are against what is going on. I can support Israel's right to exist and still abhor and protest against what is going on in Gaza.

And yes, I can support the people of Gaza as well.

As usual, it isn't populations of countries going to war, it's leaders.

[Guy Smiley]

So many Israelis are against what is going on. I can support Israel's right to exist and still abhor and protest against what is going on in Gaza.

And yes, I can support the people of Gaza as well.

As usual, it isn't populations of countries going to war, it's leaders.

Yup... the usual assortment of angry older men directing younger men in the act of killing each other and the innocent in proximity.

[C69]

Interesting piece in Haaretz about who the fuck will Govern Palestine when this shit storm is over?
And how the fuck can it be left to Bibi to have any say who runs Palestine? Peace is not going to be possible without a2 state solution.
what hope and aspirations have to millions of dispossessed refugees got?
Imagine how many young men and women have seen thie homes, thier hospitals and the familiy and friends shot and killed like fish in a barrel.
From the rubble willspew forth thousands of desperate citizens ready to die so the IDF doesn't do this again.
Imho the desruction of the infrastructure of Gaza is going to be a massive issue for decades and Bibi will have helped to radicalize a whole generation.

Analysis | In Laying Out Israel-Hamas Deal, Biden Posed Critical Questions for Gaza's 'Day After'
Netanyahu will have to decide who will manage the Gaza Strip at the first stage of the deal. If he continues to shun the Palestinian Authority, Hamas will fill the vacuum

While Israeli officials were anxiously awaiting the response of "war ministers" Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotritch to the outline presented by U.S. President Joe Biden Saturday evening, Hamas hastened to draft a diplomatic response designed to shrug off all responsibility for the possible failure of the negotiations, after the president's direct appeal urging the group to accept the proposal.

The official statement issued by Hamas said it "reaffirms its readiness to positively engage and cooperate with any proposal based on the foundation of a permanent cease-fire, complete withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, reconstruction, the return of displaced people to their homes and the completion of a genuine prisoner exchange deal."

In a shift from statements released earlier, including the day the proposal was released, there is no outright refusal to conduct negotiations before all fighting ceases. However, this was not the first time Hamas had agreed to phased proposals.

Biden deal was coordinated with Israel; U.S. fears backlash by Netanyahu far-right allies
Biden's proposal offers hope to hostage families – but falls short of Netanyahu's promises
Tens of thousands protest ruling coalition, demand hostage deal following U.S. proposal
However, even if the road map presented by Biden is based on an Israeli proposal, as the president claims, it nevertheless faces significant obstacles even if – and it's a big if – Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu can defuse the political bombs his coalition partners are preparing for him.

The first obstacle has to do with the administration of the Gaza Strip during the first cease-fire, conceived of as lasting around six weeks, with an option for extension. During this period, displaced residents of Gaza will be able to return to their homes in the northern Strip and also to most parts of Rafah.

How, and by whom, will the Strip be governed during this period, when the Israeli military is supposed to withdraw from populated areas and deploy along the border between Israel and Gaza? Who will be responsible for taking delivery of aid shipments, for escorting and guarding convoys? Most importantly, who will transport the food and medicines from the storage sites to the neighborhood distribution centers? Israel continues to rule out any role in the Strip for the Palestinian Authority, much less controlling its civil administration.

The practical conclusion is that Hamas will assume this responsibility and that it may do so because under the road map, the first cease-fire will already be in effect and the IDF will not be able to remain in population centers and prevent the organization's civilian activities.

In the second phase, also lasting about six weeks, during which the IDF is supposed to withdraw completely from the Strip, without an agreed-upon Palestinian force to assume responsibility, a situation that the government has pledged to avoid at all costs is liable to take root in which Hamas returns to take full control of Gaza.

In the third phase, during which the remains of the last Israeli hostages are to be returned – the living hostages are to be released during the first and second phases – the Strip's reconstruction will begin. There is still no outline specifying the nature of the reconstruction, how it will be funded, and, above all, the nature of the government that will rule the territory.

In theory, Hamas has no reason to oppose the outline, which appears to put it on the fast track to return to power. It "only" needs to see to adequate American guarantees to ensure that Israel complies with the terms of the agreement, adheres to the cease-fire, and withdraws its forces. Moreover, from Hamas' perspective, if the proposal overcomes all the obstacles, the resultant situation will be similar to that which prevailed after every previous military operation that began with massive, destructive airstrikes and ended with cease-fire arrangements and reconstruction plans.

President Biden is well aware of the dire situation, and he doesn't need a speech by Netanyahu in the U.S. Congress to grasp its significance. It can be inferred that Biden's decision to publicize the proposal aims not only to broker a deal for the release of hostages – an issue that seems to concern the American president more than the Israeli government – but also to prompt Israel to urgently develop a plan for managing Gaza at each stage of the proposal. As Biden said, "The time has come for this war to end and for the day after to begin."

Open gallery view
U.S. President Joe Biden presenting his proposal for a hostage deal, in the White House, on Friday.Credit: Evan Vucci / AP
"The day after" is the "grand plan" the U.S. administration is pursuing, which includes normalization with Saudi Arabia and a declarative advancement of the two-state solution. The Biden administration, having repeatedly stated it does not believe Israel can topple Hamas, likely concludes that not only Israel needs to start cutting its losses, but Washington also needs to focus on global strategic issues.

These include building a Middle Eastern axis against Iran, countering China's increasing involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, addressing the global threat of the war in Ukraine – which has led the administration to cautiously allow the use of U.S. weapons against Russian targets – and achieving a significant diplomatic success before the presidential elections.

The intolerable absurdity, as viewed from Washington, is that Biden and his global agenda find themselves shackled by the whims of Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, as much as by Netanyahu.

Without a realistic plan for "the day after," the new proposal for releasing hostages and establishing a cease-fire is unlikely to succeed. This implies that the U.S. administration cannot rely on the intentions and capabilities of the Israeli government, which has already demonstrated its ineffectiveness.

The U.S. would need to complement this effort by changing its policy towards the Palestinian Authority, recognizing it as the legitimate entity for governing Gaza, and making this a condition and integral part of the negotiations between Hamas and Israel, mediated by other states.

Such a move would require the active participation of Qatar, Egypt, and other Arab states to pressure Hamas into accepting the Palestinian Authority's involvement and to ensure President Mahmoud Abbas prepares his professional teams to start work.

An American move of this kind doesn't guarantee Israel will quickly open Gaza's gates to Palestinian Authority officials, but would greatly limit Israel's maneuvering space against it, assuming Israel does not intend to become the permanent occupying force in Gaza. This would place Israel on a dangerous collision course with the U.S. and the international community, which is no longer hesitant to impose sanctions on Israel.

[epwc]

From the rubble willspew forth thousands of desperate citizens ready to die so the IDF doesn't do this again.
Imho the desruction of the infrastructure of Gaza is going to be a massive issue for decades and Bibi will have helped to radicalize a whole generation.

You’d have to be a complete total fuckwit to think otherwise

[fishfoodie]

Interesting piece in Haaretz about who the fuck will Govern Palestine when this shit storm is over?
And how the fuck can it be left to Bibi to have any say who runs Palestine?

He already has done !

It was his blockades, & marginalization of Fatah that enabled Hamas to take over Gaza. Bibi thought this was great, because he doesn't give a shit about Gaza, but he does care about the West Bank, & by weakening Fatah he makes it easier to continue the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

It's an action replay of NI in the late 60s; the Nationalist Politicians who wanted equal rights but thru peaceful means, were ignored by the Unionists & Westminster, & eventually people got fed up by lack of progress, so the men of violence stepped forward, because people saw that peaceful means weren't working.

[sefton]

I see the IDF have made an unfortunate mistake and bombed women and children again.

[C69]

I see the IDF have made an unfortunate mistake and bombed women and children again.

Actually this time I believe that they knew that women as children would be killed but it was a price worth paying to kill a few terrorists.

[Sandstorm]

I see the IDF have made an unfortunate mistake and bombed women and children again.

Actually this time I believe that they knew that women as children would be killed but it was a price worth paying to kill a few terrorists.

Savages.

[Uncle fester]

I see the IDF have made an unfortunate mistake and bombed women and children again.

It's one of the most densely populated places on the planet and it is even more so since northern Gaza was cleared.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... prov=sfla1

Civilian deaths from bombs are a feature, not an aberration.

[bogbunny]

Four Israeli hostages kidnapped by Hamas from the Nova music festival during the group’s 7 October attacks have been rescued, Israel’s army has announced.

Those rescued are Noa Argamani, 25, Almog Meir Jan, 21, Andri Kozlov, 27, and Shlomi Ziv, 40, the Israel Defense Forces said.

They were rescued in a joint “complex” daytime operation, conducted with Israel Securities Authority and Israel Police, from two separate locations in Nuseirat, central Gaza, the IDF said.

They are in good medical condition and have been transferred to the 'Sheba' Tel-HaShomer Medical Center for further medical examinations, the IDF said.

The security forces will continue to make every effort to bring the hostages home.

[Uncle fester]

Four Israeli hostages kidnapped by Hamas from the Nova music festival during the group’s 7 October attacks have been rescued, Israel’s army has announced.

[Calculon]

She's probably the most well known of the hostages that were kidnapped by Hamas



https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/other/no ... r-BB1nR74U

[Guy Smiley]

Benny Gantz splits from Bibi's coalition

Israeli minister Benny Gantz announced in a speech on Sunday his party's withdrawal from the emergency government formed after the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel.

Why it matters: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition, which still holds a 64-member majority in the Knesset, won't fall apart but it will likely be destabilized. Gantz's exit is also likely to exacerbate the political crisis in Israel as the war in Gaza continues and as hostage and ceasefire negotiations are ongoing.

Gantz, who was a member of Netanyahu's war cabinet for eight months, is seen by the Biden administration and many other Western and Arab governments as a moderate. His departure is likely to increase U.S. and international pressure on Netanyahu.
With Gantz's withdrawal, Netanyahu's government will be dominated even more by the ultranationalist ministers Itamar Ben Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who will likely increase pressure on the prime minister to take an even more hardline approach to the war in Gaza, take steps against the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and escalate attacks against Hezbollah in Lebanon.

The intrigue: Gantz was supposed to announce his departure on Saturday but postponed it due to the operation to rescue four Israeli hostages who were held by Hamas in Gaza.

Gantz knew in advance about the operation but told his staff not to change the plans for the announcement until the operation was over in order not to risk raising suspicion among Hamas commanders.
On Saturday night, Netanyahu issued a statement calling on Gantz to stay in the government, but Gantz's aides made clear there was no change in plans other than a temporary postponement.

On Sunday, shortly before Gantz's statement, Netanyahu announced he is convening a meeting of the war cabinet and a meeting of the security cabinet for Sunday evening. Gantz and other cabinet members from his party said they won't attend.

State of play: Shortly before Gantz's statement, the commander of the Israel Defense Forces Gaza division, Brig. General Avi Rosenfeld, announced his resignation.

He is the first IDF combat commander to resign since Oct. 7.
In his letter of resignation, he wrote that he failed in his mission to protect the Israeli civilians in the towns and villages along the border with Gaza.

[Uncle fester]

Four Israeli hostages kidnapped by Hamas from the Nova music festival during the group’s 7 October attacks have been rescued, Israel’s army has announced.

Less good is the scores of civilians who were killed during the operation.