The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[topofthemoon]

I am so pleased I have renewed our season tickets.

I think I am beginning to agree with Big D that Everitt was given an extension too soon.

I just don't see what the big rush was.

9th in the league and 3rd in the mini league/shield thing when 2 of the wins are practically a given just doesn't cut it.

Two more years of him as HC.

Think you'll finish 10th in the end. Ospreys will be 100% in it to get the BP win v Cardiff and sneak into the playoffs.

[I like neeps]

Everitt isn't the man but how many times do we need to see the majority of the same players put in the same limp performances in big games for Edinburgh?

[Big D]

Not his best work in the second half but Finn played his part in Bath getting to the final.

[KingBlairhorn]

I’m not sure where I stand right now. On one hand that was a very disjointed back line Edinburgh had to pick and it’s unsurprising it looked poor both offensively and defensively with so many second line players or players out of position.

On the other hand, the whole team looked like they had no idea what to do and no discernible game plan. Very latter-day Danny Wilson.

With all that in mind, I do always have a nagging suspicion we are all a bit delusional. What exactly is it we have seen over the last 10+ years that makes us think a Scottish team be it international or club is anything but wildly average. Scottish rugby as a whole had one high point since professionalism; Glasgow winning the pro12. Other than that our teams have either been shit or average. We have no track record in European competition, no history of success to speak of in the six nations and Glasgow have never won another title despite being playoff contenders almost every year. Our teams and our players maybe just aren’t that good. I’ve said it before and been shot down, but how much evidence do we need before we all come to the same conclusion?

[Tichtheid]

I’m not sure where I stand right now. On one hand that was a very disjointed back line Edinburgh had to pick and it’s unsurprising it looked poor both offensively and defensively with so many second line players or players out of position.

On the other hand, the whole team looked like they had no idea what to do and no discernible game plan. Very latter-day Danny Wilson.

With all that in mind, I do always have a nagging suspicion we are all a bit delusional. What exactly is it we have seen over the last 10+ years that makes us think a Scottish team be it international or club is anything but wildly average. Scottish rugby as a whole had one high point since professionalism; Glasgow winning the pro12. Other than that our teams have either been shit or average. We have no track record in European competition, no history of success to speak of in the six nations and Glasgow have never won another title despite being playoff contenders almost every year. Our teams and our players maybe just aren’t that good. I’ve said it before and been shot down, but how much evidence do we need before we all come to the same conclusion?

Collectively Edinburgh are rubbish, but Schoeman is a potential Lion, Ashman is a decent hooker, Nel has long been an international level tighthead. Skinner has won GP and European Cup winners medals, Gilchrist is a decent international lock, Watson is a Lion, Ritchie is not O'Mahony but he is good and played reasonably well today, no one is going to tell me Bill Mata hasn't been one of the best 8s in the league over the years.
Price was excellent when he started with Edinburgh, but his form has dropped.
Healy started off decent but Edinburgh is a sink hole for 10s and he's gone the same way. We should have stuck with Blair Kinghorn but I won't deny he's in a much much better situation now and good luck to him. Our midfield has gone down the drain and Dwayne can't do it all on his own. With Graham, Boff, Goose and Paterson out we are not int he greatest of shapes in the back three

Look at what Ulster are doing just now, going toe to toe with Munster in Thomond in a must-win for both teams. We cuffed Ulster earlier in the season - they changed coach

[Slick]

I’m not sure where I stand right now. On one hand that was a very disjointed back line Edinburgh had to pick and it’s unsurprising it looked poor both offensively and defensively with so many second line players or players out of position.

On the other hand, the whole team looked like they had no idea what to do and no discernible game plan. Very latter-day Danny Wilson.

With all that in mind, I do always have a nagging suspicion we are all a bit delusional. What exactly is it we have seen over the last 10+ years that makes us think a Scottish team be it international or club is anything but wildly average. Scottish rugby as a whole had one high point since professionalism; Glasgow winning the pro12. Other than that our teams have either been shit or average. We have no track record in European competition, no history of success to speak of in the six nations and Glasgow have never won another title despite being playoff contenders almost every year. Our teams and our players maybe just aren’t that good. I’ve said it before and been shot down, but how much evidence do we need before we all come to the same conclusion?

I can’t help but think there are just too many players in their comfort zone. As Tichtheid said, there are a lot of very good players but collectively it isn’t working. I’m all for Scottish players moving to a different league in the middle of their careers to rediscover something that seems to get lost if they hang around at the pro clubs too long

[Big D]

I’m not sure where I stand right now. On one hand that was a very disjointed back line Edinburgh had to pick and it’s unsurprising it looked poor both offensively and defensively with so many second line players or players out of position.

On the other hand, the whole team looked like they had no idea what to do and no discernible game plan. Very latter-day Danny Wilson.

With all that in mind, I do always have a nagging suspicion we are all a bit delusional. What exactly is it we have seen over the last 10+ years that makes us think a Scottish team be it international or club is anything but wildly average. Scottish rugby as a whole had one high point since professionalism; Glasgow winning the pro12. Other than that our teams have either been shit or average. We have no track record in European competition, no history of success to speak of in the six nations and Glasgow have never won another title despite being playoff contenders almost every year. Our teams and our players maybe just aren’t that good. I’ve said it before and been shot down, but how much evidence do we need before we all come to the same conclusion?

I honestly don't think it is much to ask for a side to have a clear gameplan and identity. Edinburgh under Everitt don't have that.

Even really shite teams can have that.

[I like neeps]

I’m not sure where I stand right now. On one hand that was a very disjointed back line Edinburgh had to pick and it’s unsurprising it looked poor both offensively and defensively with so many second line players or players out of position.

On the other hand, the whole team looked like they had no idea what to do and no discernible game plan. Very latter-day Danny Wilson.

With all that in mind, I do always have a nagging suspicion we are all a bit delusional. What exactly is it we have seen over the last 10+ years that makes us think a Scottish team be it international or club is anything but wildly average. Scottish rugby as a whole had one high point since professionalism; Glasgow winning the pro12. Other than that our teams have either been shit or average. We have no track record in European competition, no history of success to speak of in the six nations and Glasgow have never won another title despite being playoff contenders almost every year. Our teams and our players maybe just aren’t that good. I’ve said it before and been shot down, but how much evidence do we need before we all come to the same conclusion?

Collectively Edinburgh are rubbish, but Schoeman is a potential Lion, Ashman is a decent hooker, Nel has long been an international level tighthead. Skinner has won GP and European Cup winners medals, Gilchrist is a decent international lock, Watson is a Lion, Ritchie is not O'Mahony but he is good and played reasonably well today, no one is going to tell me Bill Mata hasn't been one of the best 8s in the league over the years.
Price was excellent when he started with Edinburgh, but his form has dropped.
Healy started off decent but Edinburgh is a sink hole for 10s and he's gone the same way. We should have stuck with Blair Kinghorn but I won't deny he's in a much much better situation now and good luck to him. Our midfield has gone down the drain and Dwayne can't do it all on his own. With Graham, Boff, Goose and Paterson out we are not int he greatest of shapes in the back three

Look at what Ulster are doing just now, going toe to toe with Munster in Thomond in a must-win for both teams. We cuffed Ulster earlier in the season - they changed coach

Doesn't matter the coach the collective always lets Edinburgh down.

I understand a bit why none of them did ever move but I really think Ritchie, Watson and Gilchrist have been wanted elsewhere but have never left and that's a problem. Kinghorn was the same treading water, changing position, then got a move to a more demanding club and seems to be the player he could never be at Edinburgh. It's a shame Bradbury is coming back I think as he's a weekly quality starter in England (apparently) but was only ever inconsistent at Edinburgh.

Cockerill was right, a comfortable environment where we house internationals or ex internationals who struggle to get contracts elsewhere.

[Big D]

I’m not sure where I stand right now. On one hand that was a very disjointed back line Edinburgh had to pick and it’s unsurprising it looked poor both offensively and defensively with so many second line players or players out of position.

On the other hand, the whole team looked like they had no idea what to do and no discernible game plan. Very latter-day Danny Wilson.

With all that in mind, I do always have a nagging suspicion we are all a bit delusional. What exactly is it we have seen over the last 10+ years that makes us think a Scottish team be it international or club is anything but wildly average. Scottish rugby as a whole had one high point since professionalism; Glasgow winning the pro12. Other than that our teams have either been shit or average. We have no track record in European competition, no history of success to speak of in the six nations and Glasgow have never won another title despite being playoff contenders almost every year. Our teams and our players maybe just aren’t that good. I’ve said it before and been shot down, but how much evidence do we need before we all come to the same conclusion?

Collectively Edinburgh are rubbish, but Schoeman is a potential Lion, Ashman is a decent hooker, Nel has long been an international level tighthead. Skinner has won GP and European Cup winners medals, Gilchrist is a decent international lock, Watson is a Lion, Ritchie is not O'Mahony but he is good and played reasonably well today, no one is going to tell me Bill Mata hasn't been one of the best 8s in the league over the years.
Price was excellent when he started with Edinburgh, but his form has dropped.
Healy started off decent but Edinburgh is a sink hole for 10s and he's gone the same way. We should have stuck with Blair Kinghorn but I won't deny he's in a much much better situation now and good luck to him. Our midfield has gone down the drain and Dwayne can't do it all on his own. With Graham, Boff, Goose and Paterson out we are not int he greatest of shapes in the back three

Look at what Ulster are doing just now, going toe to toe with Munster in Thomond in a must-win for both teams. We cuffed Ulster earlier in the season - they changed coach

Doesn't matter the coach the collective always lets Edinburgh down.

I understand a bit why none of them did ever move but I really think Ritchie, Watson and Gilchrist have been wanted elsewhere but have never left and that's a problem. Kinghorn was the same treading water, changing position, then got a move to a more demanding club and seems to be the player he could never be at Edinburgh. It's a shame Bradbury is coming back I think as he's a weekly quality starter in England (apparently) but was only ever inconsistent at Edinburgh.

Cockerill was right, a comfortable environment where we house internationals or ex internationals who struggle to get contracts elsewhere.

Gilchrist was an odd one. IIRC he was pretty much all but signed to Toulon then had a bad arm break.

[Slick]

I’m not sure where I stand right now. On one hand that was a very disjointed back line Edinburgh had to pick and it’s unsurprising it looked poor both offensively and defensively with so many second line players or players out of position.

On the other hand, the whole team looked like they had no idea what to do and no discernible game plan. Very latter-day Danny Wilson.

With all that in mind, I do always have a nagging suspicion we are all a bit delusional. What exactly is it we have seen over the last 10+ years that makes us think a Scottish team be it international or club is anything but wildly average. Scottish rugby as a whole had one high point since professionalism; Glasgow winning the pro12. Other than that our teams have either been shit or average. We have no track record in European competition, no history of success to speak of in the six nations and Glasgow have never won another title despite being playoff contenders almost every year. Our teams and our players maybe just aren’t that good. I’ve said it before and been shot down, but how much evidence do we need before we all come to the same conclusion?

Collectively Edinburgh are rubbish, but Schoeman is a potential Lion, Ashman is a decent hooker, Nel has long been an international level tighthead. Skinner has won GP and European Cup winners medals, Gilchrist is a decent international lock, Watson is a Lion, Ritchie is not O'Mahony but he is good and played reasonably well today, no one is going to tell me Bill Mata hasn't been one of the best 8s in the league over the years.
Price was excellent when he started with Edinburgh, but his form has dropped.
Healy started off decent but Edinburgh is a sink hole for 10s and he's gone the same way. We should have stuck with Blair Kinghorn but I won't deny he's in a much much better situation now and good luck to him. Our midfield has gone down the drain and Dwayne can't do it all on his own. With Graham, Boff, Goose and Paterson out we are not int he greatest of shapes in the back three

Look at what Ulster are doing just now, going toe to toe with Munster in Thomond in a must-win for both teams. We cuffed Ulster earlier in the season - they changed coach

I have to say that sticking with Kinghorn at 10 would have been precisely the wrong thing to do. He was treading water at 15 and moving him to a position he isn’t suited for didn’t work except in a few flashes.

He’s gone to Toulouse and is now keeping out the most consistent 15 in world rugby, along with Keenan, out of the team and has suddenly come into the rugby public consciousness way beyond Scotland for the first time.

With the possible exception of J Grey, I can’t think of a top Scottish player who has gone to another country and not become a better player.

[Biffer]

Collectively Edinburgh are rubbish, but Schoeman is a potential Lion, Ashman is a decent hooker, Nel has long been an international level tighthead. Skinner has won GP and European Cup winners medals, Gilchrist is a decent international lock, Watson is a Lion, Ritchie is not O'Mahony but he is good and played reasonably well today, no one is going to tell me Bill Mata hasn't been one of the best 8s in the league over the years.
Price was excellent when he started with Edinburgh, but his form has dropped.
Healy started off decent but Edinburgh is a sink hole for 10s and he's gone the same way. We should have stuck with Blair Kinghorn but I won't deny he's in a much much better situation now and good luck to him. Our midfield has gone down the drain and Dwayne can't do it all on his own. With Graham, Boff, Goose and Paterson out we are not int he greatest of shapes in the back three

Look at what Ulster are doing just now, going toe to toe with Munster in Thomond in a must-win for both teams. We cuffed Ulster earlier in the season - they changed coach

Doesn't matter the coach the collective always lets Edinburgh down.

I understand a bit why none of them did ever move but I really think Ritchie, Watson and Gilchrist have been wanted elsewhere but have never left and that's a problem. Kinghorn was the same treading water, changing position, then got a move to a more demanding club and seems to be the player he could never be at Edinburgh. It's a shame Bradbury is coming back I think as he's a weekly quality starter in England (apparently) but was only ever inconsistent at Edinburgh.

Cockerill was right, a comfortable environment where we house internationals or ex internationals who struggle to get contracts elsewhere.

Gilchrist was an odd one. IIRC he was pretty much all but signed to Toulon then had a bad arm break.

His arm break was bad but then it wouldn’t heal. Needed a bone graft. Think that’s what put Toulon off in the end. Very unlucky for the big fella.

Ritchie is 27 so that big contract somewhere could come next time.

Guy I think should be looking to move to improve and get more rugby is Crosbie

[Dogbert]

I’m not sure where I stand right now. On one hand that was a very disjointed back line Edinburgh had to pick and it’s unsurprising it looked poor both offensively and defensively with so many second line players or players out of position.

On the other hand, the whole team looked like they had no idea what to do and no discernible game plan. Very latter-day Danny Wilson.

With all that in mind, I do always have a nagging suspicion we are all a bit delusional. What exactly is it we have seen over the last 10+ years that makes us think a Scottish team be it international or club is anything but wildly average. Scottish rugby as a whole had one high point since professionalism; Glasgow winning the pro12. Other than that our teams have either been shit or average. We have no track record in European competition, no history of success to speak of in the six nations and Glasgow have never won another title despite being playoff contenders almost every year. Our teams and our players maybe just aren’t that good. I’ve said it before and been shot down, but how much evidence do we need before we all come to the same conclusion?

Collectively Edinburgh are rubbish, but Schoeman is a potential Lion, Ashman is a decent hooker, Nel has long been an international level tighthead. Skinner has won GP and European Cup winners medals, Gilchrist is a decent international lock, Watson is a Lion, Ritchie is not O'Mahony but he is good and played reasonably well today, no one is going to tell me Bill Mata hasn't been one of the best 8s in the league over the years.
Price was excellent when he started with Edinburgh, but his form has dropped.
Healy started off decent but Edinburgh is a sink hole for 10s and he's gone the same way. We should have stuck with Blair Kinghorn but I won't deny he's in a much much better situation now and good luck to him. Our midfield has gone down the drain and Dwayne can't do it all on his own. With Graham, Boff, Goose and Paterson out we are not int he greatest of shapes in the back three

Look at what Ulster are doing just now, going toe to toe with Munster in Thomond in a must-win for both teams. We cuffed Ulster earlier in the season - they changed coach

I have to say that sticking with Kinghorn at 10 would have been precisely the wrong thing to do. He was treading water at 15 and moving him to a position he isn’t suited for didn’t work except in a few flashes.

He’s gone to Toulouse and is now keeping out the most consistent 15 in world rugby, along with Keenan, out of the team and has suddenly come into the rugby public consciousness way beyond Scotland for the first time.

With the possible exception of J Grey, I can’t think of a top Scottish player who has gone to another country and not become a better player.

Would that be the Jonny Gray with Pro 12 winners medal / English Premier winners medal & European Rugby Champions Cup winners medal

[Slick]

Collectively Edinburgh are rubbish, but Schoeman is a potential Lion, Ashman is a decent hooker, Nel has long been an international level tighthead. Skinner has won GP and European Cup winners medals, Gilchrist is a decent international lock, Watson is a Lion, Ritchie is not O'Mahony but he is good and played reasonably well today, no one is going to tell me Bill Mata hasn't been one of the best 8s in the league over the years.
Price was excellent when he started with Edinburgh, but his form has dropped.
Healy started off decent but Edinburgh is a sink hole for 10s and he's gone the same way. We should have stuck with Blair Kinghorn but I won't deny he's in a much much better situation now and good luck to him. Our midfield has gone down the drain and Dwayne can't do it all on his own. With Graham, Boff, Goose and Paterson out we are not int he greatest of shapes in the back three

Look at what Ulster are doing just now, going toe to toe with Munster in Thomond in a must-win for both teams. We cuffed Ulster earlier in the season - they changed coach

I have to say that sticking with Kinghorn at 10 would have been precisely the wrong thing to do. He was treading water at 15 and moving him to a position he isn’t suited for didn’t work except in a few flashes.

He’s gone to Toulouse and is now keeping out the most consistent 15 in world rugby, along with Keenan, out of the team and has suddenly come into the rugby public consciousness way beyond Scotland for the first time.

With the possible exception of J Grey, I can’t think of a top Scottish player who has gone to another country and not become a better player.

Would that be the Jonny Gray with Pro 12 winners medal / English Premier winners medal & European Rugby Champions Cup winners medal

Yes. Do you think he became a better player when he went down south?

[Dogbert]

I have to say that sticking with Kinghorn at 10 would have been precisely the wrong thing to do. He was treading water at 15 and moving him to a position he isn’t suited for didn’t work except in a few flashes.

He’s gone to Toulouse and is now keeping out the most consistent 15 in world rugby, along with Keenan, out of the team and has suddenly come into the rugby public consciousness way beyond Scotland for the first time.

With the possible exception of J Grey, I can’t think of a top Scottish player who has gone to another country and not become a better player.

Would that be the Jonny Gray with Pro 12 winners medal / English Premier winners medal & European Rugby Champions Cup winners medal

Yes. Do you think he became a better player when he went down south?

Yes , he won more trophies than in a Glasgow , and was in a European Cup winning team , and that is the pinnacle in the European club game.

The improvements may have been less pronounced than others, but he started at a higher level than most , but he did improve.

Lets face it , in the pro era he probably has more silverware than any other Scottish player ( he's also a decent guy without the ego the size of a planet )

I would have him back at Scotstoun in a heartbeat.

[I like neeps]

Doesn't matter the coach the collective always lets Edinburgh down.

I understand a bit why none of them did ever move but I really think Ritchie, Watson and Gilchrist have been wanted elsewhere but have never left and that's a problem. Kinghorn was the same treading water, changing position, then got a move to a more demanding club and seems to be the player he could never be at Edinburgh. It's a shame Bradbury is coming back I think as he's a weekly quality starter in England (apparently) but was only ever inconsistent at Edinburgh.

Cockerill was right, a comfortable environment where we house internationals or ex internationals who struggle to get contracts elsewhere.

Gilchrist was an odd one. IIRC he was pretty much all but signed to Toulon then had a bad arm break.

His arm break was bad but then it wouldn’t heal. Needed a bone graft. Think that’s what put Toulon off in the end. Very unlucky for the big fella.

Ritchie is 27 so that big contract somewhere could come next time.

Guy I think should be looking to move to improve and get more rugby is Crosbie

Agree about Crosbie. Would love to see him in France.

Ritchie is 27 but is on some insanely long contract that will give him maybe one big deal when he's at a time in his career he's not going to improve much.

I get why with a young family he didn't move, I get Gilchrist failed a medical over a decade ago now. And I get why ultimately the SRU give nice contracts to players who declare for Scotland so they don't get a cap and then struggle with their next club.

But what it's created for Edinburgh is a comfortable environment. Where they lose big games and too often don't even show up.

I think it's illustrative that Kinghorn felt no pressure for his spot at Edinburgh. Arguably, the one position Edinburgh had and have elite players is back three. Townsend moved him to 10 because he wasn't getting close to Hogg (on the decline as well). He should have had club coaches in his ear going we have Argentina's first choice 15, we have a Lion and we have an inform Darcy Graham and oh by way you could usurp Hogg whose hardly in Townsend's good books. Why did he get to a point he felt comfortable? It's actually quite frustrating to see that he's finally put it all together at Toulouse under the threat of competition when he had it at Edinburgh in theory. But too often there's no competition, the same players play, the youngsters aren't brought through, it's all stale.

[Tichtheid]

Kinghorn is playing better at Toulouse than he was earlier in the season at Edinburgh and oftentimes a change will bring that on. He's not playing better than I've seen him though, I still think Toulouse don't really know what they've got yet. I've watched every game he's played with Toulouse and they aren't using him at first receiver during the game, where he can be devastating. Some of his passing has been outstanding so far, he has that long flat hard pass across the defence that gives so much space to players on the outside, there have been at least three try assists which have come directly from that pass of his.
I'd also put forward the proposition that Toulouse would take upwards of thirty points off Edinburgh in the first half, how bad it got would depend on how much Toulouse cared. A good player is going to thrive in that environment so it should come as no surprise that Kinghorn is doing so, I've always thought he was every bit as good as the players they already have there and they way ST play suits Kinghorn down to the ground - their back three are never/seldom under the pressure that other teams are


However, I'm against the idea of asset-stripping Edinburgh's best players and sending them out to more successful clubs, I don't see that as a viable route to improvement for the team

[Slick]

Would that be the Jonny Gray with Pro 12 winners medal / English Premier winners medal & European Rugby Champions Cup winners medal

Yes. Do you think he became a better player when he went down south?

Yes , he won more trophies than in a Glasgow , and was in a European Cup winning team , and that is the pinnacle in the European club game.

The improvements may have been less pronounced than others, but he started at a higher level than most , but he did improve.

Lets face it , in the pro era he probably has more silverware than any other Scottish player ( he's also a decent guy without the ego the size of a planet )

I would have him back at Scotstoun in a heartbeat.

I think you are missing my point, I'm not bagging him, I'm saying he didn't improve much from an already high level whereas other players have had a significant improvement.

[Slick]

Kinghorn is playing better at Toulouse than he was earlier in the season at Edinburgh and oftentimes a change will bring that on. He's not playing better than I've seen him though, I still think Toulouse don't really know what they've got yet. I've watched every game he's played with Toulouse and they aren't using him at first receiver during the game, where he can be devastating. Some of his passing has been outstanding so far, he has that long flat hard pass across the defence that gives so much space to players on the outside, there have been at least three try assists which have come directly from that pass of his.
I'd also put forward the proposition that Toulouse would take upwards of thirty points off Edinburgh in the first half, how bad it got would depend on how much Toulouse cared. A good player is going to thrive in that environment so it should come as no surprise that Kinghorn is doing so, I've always thought he was every bit as good as the players they already have there and they way ST play suits Kinghorn down to the ground - their back three are never/seldom under the pressure that other teams are


However, I'm against the idea of asset-stripping Edinburgh's best players and sending them out to more successful clubs, I don't see that as a viable route to improvement for the team

Yeah, that's obviously the issue. Could you argue that established players moving on frees up space for upcoming talent? Maybe, but it's not a strong argument I don't think. In saying that, a lot of the players we are talking about burst on to the scene and were brilliant for a few seasons before plateauing.

As I've said before, I come at this from a "what's best for Scotland" angle, rather than the clubs.

[I like neeps]

Kinghorn is playing better at Toulouse than he was earlier in the season at Edinburgh and oftentimes a change will bring that on. He's not playing better than I've seen him though, I still think Toulouse don't really know what they've got yet. I've watched every game he's played with Toulouse and they aren't using him at first receiver during the game, where he can be devastating. Some of his passing has been outstanding so far, he has that long flat hard pass across the defence that gives so much space to players on the outside, there have been at least three try assists which have come directly from that pass of his.
I'd also put forward the proposition that Toulouse would take upwards of thirty points off Edinburgh in the first half, how bad it got would depend on how much Toulouse cared. A good player is going to thrive in that environment so it should come as no surprise that Kinghorn is doing so, I've always thought he was every bit as good as the players they already have there and they way ST play suits Kinghorn down to the ground - their back three are never/seldom under the pressure that other teams are


However, I'm against the idea of asset-stripping Edinburgh's best players and sending them out to more successful clubs, I don't see that as a viable route to improvement for the team

Yeah, that's obviously the issue. Could you argue that established players moving on frees up space for upcoming talent? Maybe, but it's not a strong argument I don't think. In saying that, a lot of the players we are talking about burst on to the scene and were brilliant for a few seasons before plateauing.

As I've said before, I come at this from a "what's best for Scotland" angle, rather than the clubs.

I don't see how Edinburgh benefit from the same players letting them down in the same way in the same games though.

What's needed in every successful club is churn and youth development. You need players to be motivated day in and day out and ultimately you need consequences for crap performances in big games.

[Tichtheid]

Kinghorn is playing better at Toulouse than he was earlier in the season at Edinburgh and oftentimes a change will bring that on. He's not playing better than I've seen him though, I still think Toulouse don't really know what they've got yet. I've watched every game he's played with Toulouse and they aren't using him at first receiver during the game, where he can be devastating. Some of his passing has been outstanding so far, he has that long flat hard pass across the defence that gives so much space to players on the outside, there have been at least three try assists which have come directly from that pass of his.
I'd also put forward the proposition that Toulouse would take upwards of thirty points off Edinburgh in the first half, how bad it got would depend on how much Toulouse cared. A good player is going to thrive in that environment so it should come as no surprise that Kinghorn is doing so, I've always thought he was every bit as good as the players they already have there and they way ST play suits Kinghorn down to the ground - their back three are never/seldom under the pressure that other teams are


However, I'm against the idea of asset-stripping Edinburgh's best players and sending them out to more successful clubs, I don't see that as a viable route to improvement for the team

Yeah, that's obviously the issue. Could you argue that established players moving on frees up space for upcoming talent? Maybe, but it's not a strong argument I don't think. In saying that, a lot of the players we are talking about burst on to the scene and were brilliant for a few seasons before plateauing.

As I've said before, I come at this from a "what's best for Scotland" angle, rather than the clubs.

I don't see how Edinburgh benefit from the same players letting them down in the same way in the same games though.

What's needed in every successful club is churn and youth development. You need players to be motivated day in and day out and ultimately you need consequences for crap performances in big games.

The Leinsters, Munsters, Crusaders, Exeters, Saracens, Leicesters, Toulouses etc have always had a strong core of players who spend a long time at these clubs, bar the likes of Dan Carter leaving towards the end of his career to stuff his pension portfolio and Sexton spending a year in Paris, these are not clubs you move on from.
Bringing on youth is very important, but the Scottish clubs are kind of hamstrung in having only the two sides, we have to do things a bit differently. We need a Super Six type of competition and allow it to bed in fully.

It would be lunacy to get shot of Crosbie - the thing that has made Leinster in particular so successful is the ability to replace like for like. I don't think Watson is playing at the level he was before the Lions tour and I'd been keen to have Crosbie as our starting 7 from now on.

[I like neeps]

Yeah, that's obviously the issue. Could you argue that established players moving on frees up space for upcoming talent? Maybe, but it's not a strong argument I don't think. In saying that, a lot of the players we are talking about burst on to the scene and were brilliant for a few seasons before plateauing.

As I've said before, I come at this from a "what's best for Scotland" angle, rather than the clubs.

I don't see how Edinburgh benefit from the same players letting them down in the same way in the same games though.

What's needed in every successful club is churn and youth development. You need players to be motivated day in and day out and ultimately you need consequences for crap performances in big games.

The Leinsters, Munsters, Crusaders, Exeters, Saracens, Leicesters, Toulouses etc have always had a strong core of players who spend a long time at these clubs, bar the likes of Dan Carter leaving towards the end of his career to stuff his pension portfolio and Sexton spending a year in Paris, these are not clubs you move on from.
Bringing on youth is very important, but the Scottish clubs are kind of hamstrung in having only the two sides, we have to do things a bit differently. We need a Super Six type of competition and allow it to bed in fully.

It would be lunacy to get shot of Crosbie - the thing that has made Leinster in particular so successful is the ability to replace like for like. I don't think Watson is playing at the level he was before the Lions tour and I'd been keen to have Crosbie as our starting 7 from now on.

Leinster and Munster are unique cases because their players can't leave. They also have excellent academies so the players do have constant competition from young, hungry youngsters who get chances (as the firsts so rarely play). And they have a top up of elite internationals every once in a while.

Sarries cheated but even so, they always brought in new players and they had a culture driven by Farrell of constant focus and high standards. Jim Hamilton speaking about Farrell is illuminating. Edinburgh clearly don't have that. Sarries do also bring in really good players yearly so you can't sit still when you get bored of Farrell etc.

The Crusaders with McCaw and company potentially underperfomed considering their team but still. Richie McCaw Kieran Read aren't taking things easy ever. It's not really worthwhile comparing that Crusaders team with this Edinburgh.

Edinburgh should be compared to Glasgow. And Glasgow's Scotland stars generally did leave when they got the contract offers. There was churn, there were youngsters, there was never the holding pen of internationals who put in the same performances every year that Edinburgh have created.

What is disappointing is that Cockers did recognise it but was never brave enough to then drop some of those players because he was never really too interested in youth development either.

[Tichtheid]

I don't see how Edinburgh benefit from the same players letting them down in the same way in the same games though.

What's needed in every successful club is churn and youth development. You need players to be motivated day in and day out and ultimately you need consequences for crap performances in big games.

The Leinsters, Munsters, Crusaders, Exeters, Saracens, Leicesters, Toulouses etc have always had a strong core of players who spend a long time at these clubs, bar the likes of Dan Carter leaving towards the end of his career to stuff his pension portfolio and Sexton spending a year in Paris, these are not clubs you move on from.
Bringing on youth is very important, but the Scottish clubs are kind of hamstrung in having only the two sides, we have to do things a bit differently. We need a Super Six type of competition and allow it to bed in fully.

It would be lunacy to get shot of Crosbie - the thing that has made Leinster in particular so successful is the ability to replace like for like. I don't think Watson is playing at the level he was before the Lions tour and I'd been keen to have Crosbie as our starting 7 from now on.

Leinster and Munster are unique cases because their players can't leave. They also have excellent academies so the players do have constant competition from young, hungry youngsters who get chances (as the firsts so rarely play). And they have a top up of elite internationals every once in a while.

Sarries cheated but even so, they always brought in new players and they had a culture driven by Farrell of constant focus and high standards. Jim Hamilton speaking about Farrell is illuminating. Edinburgh clearly don't have that. Sarries do also bring in really good players yearly so you can't sit still when you get bored of Farrell etc.

The Crusaders with McCaw and company potentially underperfomed considering their team but still. Richie McCaw Kieran Read aren't taking things easy ever. It's not really worthwhile comparing that Crusaders team with this Edinburgh.

Edinburgh should be compared to Glasgow. And Glasgow's Scotland stars generally did leave when they got the contract offers. There was churn, there were youngsters, there was never the holding pen of internationals who put in the same performances every year that Edinburgh have created.

What is disappointing is that Cockers did recognise it but was never brave enough to then drop some of those players because he was never really too interested in youth development either.

I don't particularly agree with the first part of your response as it doesn't matter that players can't leave Munster or Leinster, that wasn't the point being made, the point was that they have players who spend a lot of time at successful clubs, for whatever reason.

Anyway, speaking of Glasgow - Glasgow have had the Gray brother leave and have developed Cummings. There may be another one or two locks/blindsides on the way up now, but other than that they have bought in players to that position. Finn has never really been replaced, I like Duncan Weir but he is no Finn. Hastings was developed at school in England and then started his pro career at Bath. Hoggy's replacement was Glenn Bryce another player I liked but he was no Hoggy. Matawalu also placed fullback. Since then Josh McKay is the incumbent with Ollie Smith injured. I'd argue that Hoggy's replacement hasn't been brought up through the club, though that is unfair on Smith, but that is pro sport, injuries are part of it and he's not playing regularly. Going back, DTH and Seymour weren't Glasgow born and bred and their replacements aren't really either.

Fraser Brown* and George Turner both started at Edinburgh, Johnny Mathews was in his mid twenties before moving to Edinburgh to play for Boroughmuir.
Of their starting backrow of Darge, Fagerson and Dempsey, only Fagerson is a Glasgow laddie, if everyone was fit for a knockout game, Vailanu would be number 20 on the team sheet.

Big Staff has been one of my players of the season, but Huw Jones and Sione Tuiplulotu are the starters for the big games when fit.

Zander is the one, though. He came after, not immediately, but he walked into Euan Murray's shoes. I don't think Glasgow have a great record of replacing the churn with youth, or even that there is a churn at all, there is a turnover of players who leave though going elsewhere and retirement.

This is not a dig at Glasgow, it really isn't.


*I'm stretching the point with Fraser Brown for effect.

[Tichtheid]

I'm trying to think of Edinburgh players who left to successful terms elsewhere and I have to go quite far back. Simon Taylor's replacement was probably Ally Hogg, who in turn was replaced by Dave Denton and then Magnus Bradbury, though Nasi Manu would have been first choice at 8 in Maggie's early days, then Big Bill.

Mike Blair -> Wee Greeg -> Sam H-C, he could have been a real player imo, if he had been at a club that forced him to work on the weak parts of his game. Unfortunately I see Chico in the same light.

That's about it, there must be others.



I agree that the culture at Edinburgh is poor, big fish in a tiny puddle, but it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater for our best players to move on. I'd rather we left no stone unturned in trying to get these players to perform consistently - the pack against Munster were very good but the backs were clueless. Last season our backs were a very exciting watch but our defence was shocking.

Do we have a full-time sports psychologists? Do we have the best specialist coaches available to us, from the scrum to kick-off receivers, to attack, defence and how to approach either side of the breakdown? We need someone from he top to drive that and I'm not sure Everitt is it. Okay he's only been here a year and the injuries that have occurred have let us have a look at Paterson and Henry, both of whom appear to have something about them.
The A team have shown that McVie and Douglas will be good but for me it has also shown that Scott should have more minutes under his belt

[KingBlairhorn]

The Leinsters, Munsters, Crusaders, Exeters, Saracens, Leicesters, Toulouses etc have always had a strong core of players who spend a long time at these clubs, bar the likes of Dan Carter leaving towards the end of his career to stuff his pension portfolio and Sexton spending a year in Paris, these are not clubs you move on from.
Bringing on youth is very important, but the Scottish clubs are kind of hamstrung in having only the two sides, we have to do things a bit differently. We need a Super Six type of competition and allow it to bed in fully.

It would be lunacy to get shot of Crosbie - the thing that has made Leinster in particular so successful is the ability to replace like for like. I don't think Watson is playing at the level he was before the Lions tour and I'd been keen to have Crosbie as our starting 7 from now on.

Leinster and Munster are unique cases because their players can't leave. They also have excellent academies so the players do have constant competition from young, hungry youngsters who get chances (as the firsts so rarely play). And they have a top up of elite internationals every once in a while.

Sarries cheated but even so, they always brought in new players and they had a culture driven by Farrell of constant focus and high standards. Jim Hamilton speaking about Farrell is illuminating. Edinburgh clearly don't have that. Sarries do also bring in really good players yearly so you can't sit still when you get bored of Farrell etc.

The Crusaders with McCaw and company potentially underperfomed considering their team but still. Richie McCaw Kieran Read aren't taking things easy ever. It's not really worthwhile comparing that Crusaders team with this Edinburgh.

Edinburgh should be compared to Glasgow. And Glasgow's Scotland stars generally did leave when they got the contract offers. There was churn, there were youngsters, there was never the holding pen of internationals who put in the same performances every year that Edinburgh have created.

What is disappointing is that Cockers did recognise it but was never brave enough to then drop some of those players because he was never really too interested in youth development either.

I don't particularly agree with the first part of your response as it doesn't matter that players can't leave Munster or Leinster, that wasn't the point being made, the point was that they have players who spend a lot of time at successful clubs, for whatever reason.

Anyway, speaking of Glasgow - Glasgow have had the Gray brother leave and have developed Cummings. There may be another one or two locks/blindsides on the way up now, but other than that they have bought in players to that position. Finn has never really been replaced, I like Duncan Weir but he is no Finn. Hastings was developed at school in England and then started his pro career at Bath. Hoggy's replacement was Glenn Bryce another player I liked but he was no Hoggy. Matawalu also placed fullback. Since then Josh McKay is the incumbent with Ollie Smith injured. I'd argue that Hoggy's replacement hasn't been brought up through the club, though that is unfair on Smith, but that is pro sport, injuries are part of it and he's not playing regularly. Going back, DTH and Seymour weren't Glasgow born and bred and their replacements aren't really either.

Fraser Brown* and George Turner both started at Edinburgh, Johnny Mathews was in his mid twenties before moving to Edinburgh to play for Boroughmuir.
Of their starting backrow of Darge, Fagerson and Dempsey, only Fagerson is a Glasgow laddie, if everyone was fit for a knockout game, Vailanu would be number 20 on the team sheet.

Big Staff has been one of my players of the season, but Huw Jones and Sione Tuiplulotu are the starters for the big games when fit.

Zander is the one, though. He came after, not immediately, but he walked into Euan Murray's shoes. I don't think Glasgow have a great record of replacing the churn with youth, or even that there is a churn at all, there is a turnover of players who leave though going elsewhere and retirement.

This is not a dig at Glasgow, it really isn't.


*I'm stretching the point with Fraser Brown for effect.

Off the top of my head the respective performance in terms of top-level (i.e. have, will or do play for Scotland) development in the last decade looks something like this:

Edinburgh Forwards (6): Crosbie, Hunter-Hill, Richie, Bradbury, Hodgson, Darge
Edinburgh backs (7): Graham, Farndale, Hoyland, Kinghorn, Rowe (bit debatable tbf as he only played once), Matt Currie, Harry Paterson

Glasgow forwards (8): Cummings, Z Fagerson, M Fagerson, D-arcy Rae, Gregor Brown, Alex Samuel, Max Williamson, Euan Ferrie
Edinburgh backs (5): McDowall, George Horne, Thompson, Ollie Smith, Rufus McLean (I know, but he was/is a good player)

So overall pretty even and averaging around 1 per season.

I'm not sure what my point is exactly, but one a season at each pro team is pretty poor. How many does the Irish rugby system produce per season?

[I like neeps]

I'm trying to think of Edinburgh players who left to successful terms elsewhere and I have to go quite far back. Simon Taylor's replacement was probably Ally Hogg, who in turn was replaced by Dave Denton and then Magnus Bradbury, though Nasi Manu would have been first choice at 8 in Maggie's early days, then Big Bill.

Mike Blair -> Wee Greeg -> Sam H-C, he could have been a real player imo, if he had been at a club that forced him to work on the weak parts of his game. Unfortunately I see Chico in the same light.

That's about it, there must be others.



I agree that the culture at Edinburgh is poor, big fish in a tiny puddle, but it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater for our best players to move on. I'd rather we left no stone unturned in trying to get these players to perform consistently - the pack against Munster were very good but the backs were clueless. Last season our backs were a very exciting watch but our defence was shocking.

Do we have a full-time sports psychologists? Do we have the best specialist coaches available to us, from the scrum to kick-off receivers, to attack, defence and how to approach either side of the breakdown? We need someone from he top to drive that and I'm not sure Everitt is it. Okay he's only been here a year and the injuries that have occurred have let us have a look at Paterson and Henry, both of whom appear to have something about them.
The A team have shown that McVie and Douglas will be good but for me it has also shown that Scott should have more minutes under his belt

You have to develop young players and have churn. Sadly it's not so clean as having the next one waiting in the wings.
I appreciate that he left Scottish rugby but Russell - Hastings is a rare good example of forward planning.

Edinburgh's problem is as much the best players generally don't leave, but the players they sign are in a SRU holding pen.

Steele, Velacott, Price, Healy, Lang, Bennett, Duhan are all here for Scotland rather than the club, the SRU couldn't risk them not having a contract. Hard to develop a great culture when you have guys there because the union wants them there and not the club. Add Mosese to that for next year. Signing for Scotland, assigned to Edinburgh.

Skinner, Ashman, Bradbury - why couldn't we let them stay with really good prem clubs? Why did they have to come here? I have high hopes for Ashman but it's not like those three are the missing link. I think a young guy who needs to prove himself weekly could do that job and they could and would have better coaching elsewhere. So I don't really get the logic.

Glasgow rarely have anyone they rely on starting there as a SRU get this guy a contract. Funnily enough Hastings will be one next year.

[Tichtheid]

I'm trying to think of Edinburgh players who left to successful terms elsewhere and I have to go quite far back. Simon Taylor's replacement was probably Ally Hogg, who in turn was replaced by Dave Denton and then Magnus Bradbury, though Nasi Manu would have been first choice at 8 in Maggie's early days, then Big Bill.

Mike Blair -> Wee Greeg -> Sam H-C, he could have been a real player imo, if he had been at a club that forced him to work on the weak parts of his game. Unfortunately I see Chico in the same light.

That's about it, there must be others.



I agree that the culture at Edinburgh is poor, big fish in a tiny puddle, but it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater for our best players to move on. I'd rather we left no stone unturned in trying to get these players to perform consistently - the pack against Munster were very good but the backs were clueless. Last season our backs were a very exciting watch but our defence was shocking.

Do we have a full-time sports psychologists? Do we have the best specialist coaches available to us, from the scrum to kick-off receivers, to attack, defence and how to approach either side of the breakdown? We need someone from he top to drive that and I'm not sure Everitt is it. Okay he's only been here a year and the injuries that have occurred have let us have a look at Paterson and Henry, both of whom appear to have something about them.
The A team have shown that McVie and Douglas will be good but for me it has also shown that Scott should have more minutes under his belt

You have to develop young players and have churn. Sadly it's not so clean as having the next one waiting in the wings.
I appreciate that he left Scottish rugby but Russell - Hastings is a rare good example of forward planning.

Edinburgh's problem is as much the best players generally don't leave, but the players they sign are in a SRU holding pen.

Steele, Velacott, Price, Healy, Lang, Bennett, Duhan are all here for Scotland rather than the club, the SRU couldn't risk them not having a contract. Hard to develop a great culture when you have guys there because the union wants them there and not the club. Add Mosese to that for next year. Signing for Scotland, assigned to Edinburgh.

Skinner, Ashman, Bradbury - why couldn't we let them stay with really good prem clubs? Why did they have to come here? I have high hopes for Ashman but it's not like those three are the missing link. I think a young guy who needs to prove himself weekly could do that job and they could and would have better coaching elsewhere. So I don't really get the logic.

Glasgow rarely have anyone they rely on starting there as a SRU get this guy a contract. Funnily enough Hastings will be one next year.

Bhatti, Dell, Rowe, Hastings, R Gray, Weir, Kennedy, they’re all in similar situations to those Edinburgh players you mention.

Duhan came back to the club that rescued his career and I’m very glad he did. Bennett was shunted over because Toonie didn’t rate his defence, but fair play to Townsend he gave him another shot at Scotland due to his Edinburgh form.

Maitland was signed for Scotland but went to Glasgow, Strauss was the same, Kebble too. We’re apparently waiting for Tom Jordan to qualify for Scotland, though his wasn’t a project signing.

[Biffer]

Leinster and Munster are unique cases because their players can't leave. They also have excellent academies so the players do have constant competition from young, hungry youngsters who get chances (as the firsts so rarely play). And they have a top up of elite internationals every once in a while.

Sarries cheated but even so, they always brought in new players and they had a culture driven by Farrell of constant focus and high standards. Jim Hamilton speaking about Farrell is illuminating. Edinburgh clearly don't have that. Sarries do also bring in really good players yearly so you can't sit still when you get bored of Farrell etc.

The Crusaders with McCaw and company potentially underperfomed considering their team but still. Richie McCaw Kieran Read aren't taking things easy ever. It's not really worthwhile comparing that Crusaders team with this Edinburgh.

Edinburgh should be compared to Glasgow. And Glasgow's Scotland stars generally did leave when they got the contract offers. There was churn, there were youngsters, there was never the holding pen of internationals who put in the same performances every year that Edinburgh have created.

What is disappointing is that Cockers did recognise it but was never brave enough to then drop some of those players because he was never really too interested in youth development either.

I don't particularly agree with the first part of your response as it doesn't matter that players can't leave Munster or Leinster, that wasn't the point being made, the point was that they have players who spend a lot of time at successful clubs, for whatever reason.

Anyway, speaking of Glasgow - Glasgow have had the Gray brother leave and have developed Cummings. There may be another one or two locks/blindsides on the way up now, but other than that they have bought in players to that position. Finn has never really been replaced, I like Duncan Weir but he is no Finn. Hastings was developed at school in England and then started his pro career at Bath. Hoggy's replacement was Glenn Bryce another player I liked but he was no Hoggy. Matawalu also placed fullback. Since then Josh McKay is the incumbent with Ollie Smith injured. I'd argue that Hoggy's replacement hasn't been brought up through the club, though that is unfair on Smith, but that is pro sport, injuries are part of it and he's not playing regularly. Going back, DTH and Seymour weren't Glasgow born and bred and their replacements aren't really either.

Fraser Brown* and George Turner both started at Edinburgh, Johnny Mathews was in his mid twenties before moving to Edinburgh to play for Boroughmuir.
Of their starting backrow of Darge, Fagerson and Dempsey, only Fagerson is a Glasgow laddie, if everyone was fit for a knockout game, Vailanu would be number 20 on the team sheet.

Big Staff has been one of my players of the season, but Huw Jones and Sione Tuiplulotu are the starters for the big games when fit.

Zander is the one, though. He came after, not immediately, but he walked into Euan Murray's shoes. I don't think Glasgow have a great record of replacing the churn with youth, or even that there is a churn at all, there is a turnover of players who leave though going elsewhere and retirement.

This is not a dig at Glasgow, it really isn't.


*I'm stretching the point with Fraser Brown for effect.

Off the top of my head the respective performance in terms of top-level (i.e. have, will or do play for Scotland) development in the last decade looks something like this:

Edinburgh Forwards (6): Crosbie, Hunter-Hill, Richie, Bradbury, Hodgson, Darge
Edinburgh backs (7): Graham, Farndale, Hoyland, Kinghorn, Rowe (bit debatable tbf as he only played once), Matt Currie, Harry Paterson

Glasgow forwards (8): Cummings, Z Fagerson, M Fagerson, D-arcy Rae, Gregor Brown, Alex Samuel, Max Williamson, Euan Ferrie
Edinburgh backs (5): McDowall, George Horne, Thompson, Ollie Smith, Rufus McLean (I know, but he was/is a good player)

So overall pretty even and averaging around 1 per season.

I'm not sure what my point is exactly, but one a season at each pro team is pretty poor. How many does the Irish rugby system produce per season?

I think you’re a bit short there. Edinburgh should include Hodgson, Harrison, Dodd, Boyle and Muncaster in the forwards, Sweeney and Henry in the backs. And we can debate whether Darge should be in the Edinburgh or Glasgow list. Big hopes for the Blyth Lafferty boys as well. Glasgow should include Sykes and Bhatti, and probably some others I’ve forgotten.

[Slick]

I've no idea what's going on here... can someone explain

[Biffer]

I've no idea what's going on here... can someone explain

Not very sure myself tbh

[charltom]

50

[Slick]

50

Cheers

[SomersetJock]

I’ve just seen a comment on Facebook claiming that the SRU are paying 50% of Finn Russell’s contract at Bath.

Even during an election month this one takes the prize for biggest amount of nonsense written !

[Tichtheid]

Stuart Hogg is being linked with Montpellier as a medical joker signing. Midi Olympique has the story and they are often correct.

[Biffer]

Blimey, of the four URC quarter finals, two of them have Scottish referees.

Has someone in ref HQ in Dublin had some kind of episode?

[Slick]

Blimey, of the four URC quarter finals, two of them have Scottish referees.

Has someone in ref HQ in Dublin had some kind of episode?

Is one of them Holly?

[Slick]

Stuart Hogg is being linked with Montpellier as a medical joker signing. Midi Olympique has the story and they are often correct.

Will be interesting to see how much of the "broken body" stuff was bullshit....

From his point of view getting away can only be a good thing, I wish him luck

[Biffer]

Blimey, of the four URC quarter finals, two of them have Scottish referees.

Has someone in ref HQ in Dublin had some kind of episode?

Is one of them Holly?

Yes, she's reffing Munster v Ospreys. Understandably as she's one of the best.

Mike Adamson off to South Africa for the Bulls v Benetton.

[Slick]

Blimey, of the four URC quarter finals, two of them have Scottish referees.

Has someone in ref HQ in Dublin had some kind of episode?

Is one of them Holly?

Yes, she's reffing Munster v Ospreys. Understandably as she's one of the best.

Mike Adamson off to South Africa for the Bulls v Benetton.

That's absolutely superb, really pleased for her. And well done to the URC.

[Biffer]

Is one of them Holly?

Yes, she's reffing Munster v Ospreys. Understandably as she's one of the best.

Mike Adamson off to South Africa for the Bulls v Benetton.

That's absolutely superb, really pleased for her. And well done to the URC.

She should be in line for a 6Ns game next year tbh.

[robmatic]

Yes, she's reffing Munster v Ospreys. Understandably as she's one of the best.

Mike Adamson off to South Africa for the Bulls v Benetton.

That's absolutely superb, really pleased for her. And well done to the URC.

She should be in line for a 6Ns game next year tbh.

If Mike Adamson can, she certainly should.