The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[clydecloggie]

Interesting words from Franco Smith at Glasgow airport - talking about getting rid of the fear of disappointment, now reaping the rewards and saying it should be a watershed moment for his players.

[Biffer]

Duhan can win games on his own, Steyn can't simple as that.

Wrt other Edinburgh players, I've noticed the Scotland maul going to shit when Gilchrist gets subbed, I don't know enough about the technical aspects of that to understand why. Ashman vs Matthews is down to Ashman being 24 and Matthews will be 31 in a few weeks. Darcy will be in again when fit, again, he's a match winner. Schoeman is obviously first pick at LH.

Apart from that, I don't see any Edinburgh players threatening the starting XV.

[Tichtheid]

Duhan can win games on his own, Steyn can't simple as that.

Wrt other Edinburgh players, I've noticed the Scotland maul going to shit when Gilchrist gets subbed, I don't know enough about the technical aspects of that to understand why. Ashman vs Matthews is down to Ashman being 24 and Matthews will be 31 in a few weeks. Darcy will be in again when fit, again, he's a match winner. Schoeman is obviously first pick at LH.

Apart from that, I don't see any Edinburgh players threatening the starting XV.

The pack in general goes better with Gilchrist in it.

From recent form in the games they've played my current Scotland backrow would Fagerson, Ritchie and Dempsey (with a nod to Christie who did really well when called upon). I know it's sacrilege to say so, but I've yet to be won over by Darge at international level and as he's a young East Lothian laddie I'm really rooting for him.

Two years ago Edinburgh finished above Glasgow in the league and had won the 1872 Cup. There is no doubting where the two sides stand right now in terms of merit - one the league champion, the other has just had yet another damp squib disappointment of a season, showing no bottle in the process. 10th place. 10th. We were lucky the Welsh sides were so shite this year and that we scraped a 80th minute drop goal win against Connacht in Edinburgh.

Glasgow's playing staff was very similar two years ago to the current roster, even the coaching staff is very similar with two differences - Pete Horne and of course Franco Smith.

To me that shows what you can achieve with the right people at the top

[I like neeps]

Edinburgh's problem runs deeper than just coaching though. It's a squad that is as Cockerill said it is, a waiting room for the internationals. Doesn't matter how they play for their club - once you've been picked for Scotland you get picked for Scotland regardless of your Edinburgh performances.

Or, the club the players who Scotland have capped and need to find a team for when their club contract renewed. Just hard to build a culture when you aren't there for club rugby.

Hard to replicate Glasgow's culture and attitude when it doesn't really matter how you perform for your club. There's never any consequences for underperformance.

Must be really weird in Scotland camp at the minute, half aren't there as they're busy celebrating. I hope Townsend is absolutely beating them, a weak Edinburgh is the handbrake on Scottish rugby.

[weegie01]

I made this point some time ago on the Glasgow forum.

A player I know who moved from Edinburgh to Glasgow described the difference as Edinburgh being a business whose business is rugby, while Glasgow is rugby club that plays rugby professionally.

[Tichtheid]

Edinburgh's problem runs deeper than just coaching though. It's a squad that is as Cockerill said it is, a waiting room for the internationals. Doesn't matter how they play for their club - once you've been picked for Scotland you get picked for Scotland regardless of your Edinburgh performances.

Or, the club the players who Scotland have capped and need to find a team for when their club contract renewed. Just hard to build a culture when you aren't there for club rugby.

Hard to replicate Glasgow's culture and attitude when it doesn't really matter how you perform for your club. There's never any consequences for underperformance.

Must be really weird in Scotland camp at the minute, half aren't there as they're busy celebrating. I hope Townsend is absolutely beating them, a weak Edinburgh is the handbrake on Scottish rugby.

That all applies to Glasgow too, we've done this conversation before.

Cockerill wasn't the right coach at Edinburgh, nor at any other coaching position he's been in, he's a bitter wee man who had a pop at his old employers after getting the Spanish archer.

[Jock42]

I don't buy that argument from Cockerill. It reads like an excuse because he couldn't achieve any better with them. There is also almost always more Glasgow than Edinburgh players selected and I doubt anybody could really find much fault if an Edinburgh player is selected above their Glasgow counterpart.

As for Ashman v Matthews I'm sure I read a stat a couple of weeks ago that had Ashman then Cherry with the 2 best lineout percentages.

[Tichtheid]

I don't buy that argument from Cockerill. It reads like an excuse because he couldn't achieve any better with them. There is also almost always more Glasgow than Edinburgh players selected and I doubt anybody could really find much fault if an Edinburgh player is selected above their Glasgow counterpart.

As for Ashman v Matthews I'm sure I read a stat a couple of weeks ago that had Ashman then Cherry with the 2 best lineout percentages.

Part of his diatribe was that when he was with Edinburgh Nel and Fagerson were the best tighthead props and they still are.

Atonio, Malherbe, Koch, Furlong, Old King Cole etc have been first choice for their countries for far longer than Fagerson and they have much greater resources than Scotland

He talks shite

[Tichtheid]

I made this point some time ago on the Glasgow forum.

A player I know who moved from Edinburgh to Glasgow described the difference as Edinburgh being a business whose business is rugby, while Glasgow is rugby club that plays rugby professionally.

I wonder where the difference comes from? Was it there back in the Hughenden days? Did it start with Sean Lineen or before that? There certainly seems to be a different culture at the two clubs. Some have said it's the proximity to Murrayfield that hampers Edinburgh, if it was just that then Leinster would be permanently shite like we are.

It might be that in Edinburgh's case but it must be something else as well, I really don't like naming players as scapegoats but this one time I'll do it, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has all the talent in the world, he was a long way off perfect but he had a good rugby brain and pace to burn. He had an unreliable pass and he still had an erratic pass the last time I saw him play, four years after leaving Edinburgh - that is a learned skill, it's not innate like pace. He obviously had no desire to build that skill and no one made him do it.
Saint K has mentioned that his mate was brought in as Edinburgh's first ever specialist throwing coach for the hookers, that was under Cockerill. I remember Nasi Manu being shocked that Edinburgh didn't have sports psychologists preparing the players - was that lack of professionalism just at Edinburgh or was it at Glasgow too?

I don't believe in Ley lines, I don't believe it's something peculiar to the geography or in the water, I don't believe it's the weather. There is something man-made that has brought Glasgow's success whilst Edinburgh has languished in shitedom and the culture, or tone is always set at the top.

[I like neeps]

Edinburgh's problem runs deeper than just coaching though. It's a squad that is as Cockerill said it is, a waiting room for the internationals. Doesn't matter how they play for their club - once you've been picked for Scotland you get picked for Scotland regardless of your Edinburgh performances.

Or, the club the players who Scotland have capped and need to find a team for when their club contract renewed. Just hard to build a culture when you aren't there for club rugby.

Hard to replicate Glasgow's culture and attitude when it doesn't really matter how you perform for your club. There's never any consequences for underperformance.

Must be really weird in Scotland camp at the minute, half aren't there as they're busy celebrating. I hope Townsend is absolutely beating them, a weak Edinburgh is the handbrake on Scottish rugby.

That all applies to Glasgow too, we've done this conversation before.

Cockerill wasn't the right coach at Edinburgh, nor at any other coaching position he's been in, he's a bitter wee man who had a pop at his old employers after getting the Spanish archer.

He said it in his first year on the job when he did quite well. That Heineken Quarter vs Munster being Edinburgh's high water mark over the last decade. And we all sang his praises.

Oh and in that time Glasgow have reached 4 finals, won 2, and whose only bad patch was after the SRU re-arranged deck chairs giving them Danny Wilson.

[KingBlairhorn]

I made this point some time ago on the Glasgow forum.

A player I know who moved from Edinburgh to Glasgow described the difference as Edinburgh being a business whose business is rugby, while Glasgow is rugby club that plays rugby professionally.

I wonder where the difference comes from? Was it there back in the Hughenden days? Did it start with Sean Lineen or before that? There certainly seems to be a different culture at the two clubs. Some have said it's the proximity to Murrayfield that hampers Edinburgh, if it was just that then Leinster would be permanently shite like we are.

It might be that in Edinburgh's case but it must be something else as well, I really don't like naming players as scapegoats but this one time I'll do it, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has all the talent in the world, he was a long way off perfect but he had a good rugby brain and pace to burn. He had an unreliable pass and he still had an erratic pass the last time I saw him play, four years after leaving Edinburgh - that is a learned skill, it's not innate like pace. He obviously had no desire to build that skill and no one made him do it.
Saint K has mentioned that his mate was brought in as Edinburgh's first ever specialist throwing coach for the hookers, that was under Cockerill. I remember Nasi Manu being shocked that Edinburgh didn't have sports psychologists preparing the players - was that lack of professionalism just at Edinburgh or was it at Glasgow too?

I don't believe in Ley lines, I don't believe it's something peculiar to the geography or in the water, I don't believe it's the weather. There is something man-made that has brought Glasgow's success whilst Edinburgh has languished in shitedom and the culture, or tone is always set at the top.

Let's not forget that it used to be Glasgow that were the perennial underachievers, they went from 11th (of 12) in the Pro12 in 2011 to league winners in 2015 with two semis and a final in between. The turnaround is very possible, but as you say it is man-made and needs the right people.

[Tichtheid]

Edinburgh's problem runs deeper than just coaching though. It's a squad that is as Cockerill said it is, a waiting room for the internationals. Doesn't matter how they play for their club - once you've been picked for Scotland you get picked for Scotland regardless of your Edinburgh performances.

If memory serves me, Bhatti wasn't getting picked for Scotland whilst he was an Edinburgh player because Schoeman and Sutherland were playing better. Rambo was always worth his position in the Scotland jersey on the back of Edinburgh performances as well as his Scotland form. Nel was Nel. Gilchrist is underrated by Scotland fans. Skinner isn't a starter for the international team these days
Watson has been dropped, as has Bradbury, Ritchie and Crosbie. Ritchie deservedly regained his place, the captaincy obviously affected him and Crosbie will be back too.

We haven't had a starting scrum half for Scotland since Wee Greeg or Mike Blair, nor a fly half* or centre for a long time. Mark Bennett deserved his second chance but isn't getting picked now due to his form - all of this is in direct contradiction to what Cockerill said.
Graham is a special player who is well worth his place. Duhan is possibly the one player who gets in to the Scotland lineup despite his club form, but given Cockerill was the one that rescued his career, I'm sure even he would make the exception for him


*Kinghorn was never Scotland's starting fly half, he was keeping the jersey warm whilst Toonie and Finn sorted out their differences. Healy gets picked as the top points scorer in the league, but he's not going to start when Finn is fit, nor after Jordan qualifies.

[SaintK]

I don't buy that argument from Cockerill. It reads like an excuse because he couldn't achieve any better with them. There is also almost always more Glasgow than Edinburgh players selected and I doubt anybody could really find much fault if an Edinburgh player is selected above their Glasgow counterpart.

As for Ashman v Matthews I'm sure I read a stat a couple of weeks ago that had Ashman then Cherry with the 2 best lineout percentages.

Part of his diatribe was that when he was with Edinburgh Nel and Fagerson were the best tighthead props and they still are.

Atonio, Malherbe, Koch, Furlong, Old King Cole etc have been first choice for their countries for far longer than Fagerson and they have much greater resources than Scotland

He talks shite

Talking of Scottish props! Not sure if this further up thread?

ProD2-bound Oyonnax have signed Scotland prop Oli Kebble from Glasgow Warriors on a two-year deal, as reported by RugbyPass.
The 32-year-old brought his seven-year stay with Glasgow to a close on Saturday by winning the United Rugby Championship in his native South Africa against the Bulls.

[Tichtheid]

I don't buy that argument from Cockerill. It reads like an excuse because he couldn't achieve any better with them. There is also almost always more Glasgow than Edinburgh players selected and I doubt anybody could really find much fault if an Edinburgh player is selected above their Glasgow counterpart.

As for Ashman v Matthews I'm sure I read a stat a couple of weeks ago that had Ashman then Cherry with the 2 best lineout percentages.

Part of his diatribe was that when he was with Edinburgh Nel and Fagerson were the best tighthead props and they still are.

Atonio, Malherbe, Koch, Furlong, Old King Cole etc have been first choice for their countries for far longer than Fagerson and they have much greater resources than Scotland

He talks shite

Talking of Scottish props! Not sure if this further up thread?

ProD2-bound Oyonnax have signed Scotland prop Oli Kebble from Glasgow Warriors on a two-year deal, as reported by RugbyPass.
The 32-year-old brought his seven-year stay with Glasgow to a close on Saturday by winning the United Rugby Championship in his native South Africa against the Bulls.

I think it's only just been announced.

Breast of Duck to him, he's a Glasgow centurion and now league winner, as well as being a Scottish international.

[Biffer]

The SRU could do a similar thing in Edinburgh that the IRFU have done around Dublin by engaging fully with the private schools (could do the same in Glasgow).

But the clubs would scream and vote people out until they got what they wanted, whatever the fuck that is.

[SaintK]

I made this point some time ago on the Glasgow forum.

A player I know who moved from Edinburgh to Glasgow described the difference as Edinburgh being a business whose business is rugby, while Glasgow is rugby club that plays rugby professionally.

I wonder where the difference comes from? Was it there back in the Hughenden days? Did it start with Sean Lineen or before that? There certainly seems to be a different culture at the two clubs. Some have said it's the proximity to Murrayfield that hampers Edinburgh, if it was just that then Leinster would be permanently shite like we are.

It might be that in Edinburgh's case but it must be something else as well, I really don't like naming players as scapegoats but this one time I'll do it, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has all the talent in the world, he was a long way off perfect but he had a good rugby brain and pace to burn. He had an unreliable pass and he still had an erratic pass the last time I saw him play, four years after leaving Edinburgh - that is a learned skill, it's not innate like pace. He obviously had no desire to build that skill and no one made him do it.
Saint K has mentioned that his mate was brought in as Edinburgh's first ever specialist throwing coach for the hookers, that was under Cockerill. I remember Nasi Manu being shocked that Edinburgh didn't have sports psychologists preparing the players - was that lack of professionalism just at Edinburgh or was it at Glasgow too?

I don't believe in Ley lines, I don't believe it's something peculiar to the geography or in the water, I don't believe it's the weather. There is something man-made that has brought Glasgow's success whilst Edinburgh has languished in shitedom and the culture, or tone is always set at the top.

My mate is still working with all the Scottish hookers when they are in camp and also Glasgow
Not sure why he doesn’t go into Edinburgh anymore

[Tichtheid]

I made this point some time ago on the Glasgow forum.

A player I know who moved from Edinburgh to Glasgow described the difference as Edinburgh being a business whose business is rugby, while Glasgow is rugby club that plays rugby professionally.

I wonder where the difference comes from? Was it there back in the Hughenden days? Did it start with Sean Lineen or before that? There certainly seems to be a different culture at the two clubs. Some have said it's the proximity to Murrayfield that hampers Edinburgh, if it was just that then Leinster would be permanently shite like we are.

It might be that in Edinburgh's case but it must be something else as well, I really don't like naming players as scapegoats but this one time I'll do it, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has all the talent in the world, he was a long way off perfect but he had a good rugby brain and pace to burn. He had an unreliable pass and he still had an erratic pass the last time I saw him play, four years after leaving Edinburgh - that is a learned skill, it's not innate like pace. He obviously had no desire to build that skill and no one made him do it.
Saint K has mentioned that his mate was brought in as Edinburgh's first ever specialist throwing coach for the hookers, that was under Cockerill. I remember Nasi Manu being shocked that Edinburgh didn't have sports psychologists preparing the players - was that lack of professionalism just at Edinburgh or was it at Glasgow too?

I don't believe in Ley lines, I don't believe it's something peculiar to the geography or in the water, I don't believe it's the weather. There is something man-made that has brought Glasgow's success whilst Edinburgh has languished in shitedom and the culture, or tone is always set at the top.

My mate is still working with all the Scottish hookers when they are in camp and also Glasgow
Not sure why he doesn’t go into Edinburgh anymore

Edinburgh's lineout was actually ranked 2nd in the league, with the same percentage success as the top-placed Bulls.

His work there was obviously done

[Big D]

I made this point some time ago on the Glasgow forum.

A player I know who moved from Edinburgh to Glasgow described the difference as Edinburgh being a business whose business is rugby, while Glasgow is rugby club that plays rugby professionally.

I wonder where the difference comes from? Was it there back in the Hughenden days? Did it start with Sean Lineen or before that? There certainly seems to be a different culture at the two clubs. Some have said it's the proximity to Murrayfield that hampers Edinburgh, if it was just that then Leinster would be permanently shite like we are.

It might be that in Edinburgh's case but it must be something else as well, I really don't like naming players as scapegoats but this one time I'll do it, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has all the talent in the world, he was a long way off perfect but he had a good rugby brain and pace to burn. He had an unreliable pass and he still had an erratic pass the last time I saw him play, four years after leaving Edinburgh - that is a learned skill, it's not innate like pace. He obviously had no desire to build that skill and no one made him do it.
Saint K has mentioned that his mate was brought in as Edinburgh's first ever specialist throwing coach for the hookers, that was under Cockerill. I remember Nasi Manu being shocked that Edinburgh didn't have sports psychologists preparing the players - was that lack of professionalism just at Edinburgh or was it at Glasgow too?

I don't believe in Ley lines, I don't believe it's something peculiar to the geography or in the water, I don't believe it's the weather. There is something man-made that has brought Glasgow's success whilst Edinburgh has languished in shitedom and the culture, or tone is always set at the top.

I think playing in Murrayfield was an issue. In building an identity and culture having their own ground/facilities is important.

They also suffer from appointing poor head coaches.
Cockerill turned the ship around but was never the one to take it forward as his way works for about 12 months before players get fucked off, Blair clearly came to the conclusion that head coach wasn't for him and it showed, and Everitt got an extension from what I can tell for not being a clown show.

Culture comes from the top down and bringing people with you. Edinburgh don't have that. If the key people aren't on message then some of them may need to be moved on. It has gone on too long.

[Biffer]

Cockerill was never the guy to take things on, but a lot of what he identified was shocking. Players driving from one end of the ground to the other, SRU staff wandering in and out of the Edinburgh offices without a care in the world, etc.

[I like neeps]

Cockerill was never the guy to take things on, but a lot of what he identified was shocking. Players driving from one end of the ground to the other, SRU staff wandering in and out of the Edinburgh offices without a care in the world, etc.

He was exactly right, Edinburgh was far too comfortable and the players were too comfortable. He then had the squad doing well (Heineken Cup Quarter albeit an easier group) and 1st in that half league split thing.

Then his personal failings of being a prick showed up as ever and that somehow absolved the players and his correct diagnosis of the situation was thrown out.

The culture at Edinburgh is rotten, and it's rotten because it doesn't matter. The big names will continue to get big contracts and continue to get picked for Edinburgh and continue to get picked for Scotland. And on the other side guys who aren't really good enough for Scotland, aren't really in high demand from other clubs continuing to get contracts despite not really performing well.

[Biffer]

Cockerill was never the guy to take things on, but a lot of what he identified was shocking. Players driving from one end of the ground to the other, SRU staff wandering in and out of the Edinburgh offices without a care in the world, etc.

He was exactly right, Edinburgh was far too comfortable and the players were too comfortable. He then had the squad doing well (Heineken Cup Quarter albeit an easier group) and 1st in that half league split thing.

Then his personal failings of being a prick showed up as ever and that somehow absolved the players and his correct diagnosis of the situation was thrown out.

The culture at Edinburgh is rotten, and it's rotten because it doesn't matter. The big names will continue to get big contracts and continue to get picked for Edinburgh and continue to get picked for Scotland. And on the other side guys who aren't really good enough for Scotland, aren't really in high demand from other clubs continuing to get contracts despite not really performing well.

He was also absolutely the wrong man to be in charge during lockdown. Wouldn’t have changed anything and with all the other pressures on people at that time his regime completely fell apart.

[Jock42]

I take it theirs still no update on broadcast details for the summer tour yet?

[I like neeps]

Cockerill was never the guy to take things on, but a lot of what he identified was shocking. Players driving from one end of the ground to the other, SRU staff wandering in and out of the Edinburgh offices without a care in the world, etc.

He was exactly right, Edinburgh was far too comfortable and the players were too comfortable. He then had the squad doing well (Heineken Cup Quarter albeit an easier group) and 1st in that half league split thing.

Then his personal failings of being a prick showed up as ever and that somehow absolved the players and his correct diagnosis of the situation was thrown out.

The culture at Edinburgh is rotten, and it's rotten because it doesn't matter. The big names will continue to get big contracts and continue to get picked for Edinburgh and continue to get picked for Scotland. And on the other side guys who aren't really good enough for Scotland, aren't really in high demand from other clubs continuing to get contracts despite not really performing well.

He was also absolutely the wrong man to be in charge during lockdown. Wouldn’t have changed anything and with all the other pressures on people at that time his regime completely fell apart.

I do kind of agree. Forget who Edinburgh beat but the game prelockdown was as well as I've seen Edinburgh battle.

Being with Cockerill in COVID controlled training would be absolutely joyless. Doesn't have the emotional maturity to deal with that at all.

[GrahamWa]

I take it theirs still no update on broadcast details for the summer tour yet?

I can see it defaulting to Rugby Pass TV same as the Japan v England game as none of the normal players want it at the price being offered to them. Unless Premier are going to pull a rabbit out the hat with a deal. There are very little clashes with our kick off times so pretty strange,

Saturday 6 July: Canada v Scotland TD Place, Ottawa, kick-off: 10pm UK time, 5pm local time
Friday 12 July: USA v Scotland, Audi Field, Washington DC, kick-off: 11.30pm UK time, 6.30pm local time
Saturday 20 July: Chile v Scotland, Estadio Nacional, Santiago, kick-off: 8pm UK time. 3pm local time
Saturday 27 July: Uruguay v Glasgow/Edinburgh select, Estadio Charrúa, Montevideo, kick-off: 8pm UK time, 4pm local time

https://www.autumn-internationals.co.uk/summer-2024/

[Jock42]

I take it theirs still no update on broadcast details for the summer tour yet?

I can see it defaulting to Rugby Pass TV same as the Japan v England game as none of the normal players want it at the price being offered to them. Unless Premier are going to pull a rabbit out the hat with a deal. There are very little clashes with our kick off times so pretty strange,

Saturday 6 July: Canada v Scotland TD Place, Ottawa, kick-off: 10pm UK time, 5pm local time
Friday 12 July: USA v Scotland, Audi Field, Washington DC, kick-off: 11.30pm UK time, 6.30pm local time
Saturday 20 July: Chile v Scotland, Estadio Nacional, Santiago, kick-off: 8pm UK time. 3pm local time
Saturday 27 July: Uruguay v Glasgow/Edinburgh select, Estadio Charrúa, Montevideo, kick-off: 8pm UK time, 4pm local time

https://www.autumn-internationals.co.uk/summer-2024/

I'd probably prefer premier but would be fine with rugbypass. As long as I can watch them.

[Tichtheid]

Cockerill was never the guy to take things on, but a lot of what he identified was shocking. Players driving from one end of the ground to the other, SRU staff wandering in and out of the Edinburgh offices without a care in the world, etc.

He was exactly right, Edinburgh was far too comfortable and the players were too comfortable. He then had the squad doing well (Heineken Cup Quarter albeit an easier group) and 1st in that half league split thing.

Then his personal failings of being a prick showed up as ever and that somehow absolved the players and his correct diagnosis of the situation was thrown out.

The culture at Edinburgh is rotten, and it's rotten because it doesn't matter. The big names will continue to get big contracts and continue to get picked for Edinburgh and continue to get picked for Scotland. And on the other side guys who aren't really good enough for Scotland, aren't really in high demand from other clubs continuing to get contracts despite not really performing well.

I think that's a massive exaggeration. The repeated refrain I recall from the season just gone is "we'd have lost that last year" after a win.

We lost two home games in the league, one to Treviso and one to Munster. Those were definitely two games that got away and we should really have won them. Away from home we lost in Dublin, twice in South Africa and one in Glasgow before the unacceptable capitulation away to Benetton at the end of the season. That's poor but it's not a reflection of a "rotten" culture, a rotten culture was Cockerill publicly humiliating players in front of their peers on a Monday morning.

From the URC team stats our defence is mid table mediocre (8th, Glasgow 3rd, Cardiff's is best), our discipline is 9th (Glasgow's is 10th). We had the second best lineout after the Bulls and our scrum was 4th, Glasgow's 5th.

For the kicking game overall Edinburgh came 7th, more on that in a minute, but we topped the penalties scored, 2nd in drop goals and 4th in kicks retained.
What moved us to 7th in the kicking stats was reflected in the attack stats where we came 10th, scoring 47 tries (12th on that stat) compared to top team Glasgow on 80. We were 10th in conversions because we had so few attempts.

We lost Boffelli for large parts of the season, plus Graham, Paterson, Henry, Goosen and of course Kinghorn. We had Matt Currie and Chris Dean playing on the wings.

Who are the underperforming players getting picked for Scotland? Lang isn't getting picked, nor Bennett, Vellacott or even Price now.

We signed players who were out of contract elsewhere but Glasgow took on many of that ilk too - Dell, Rowe, Gray, Sutherland, Berghan, Bhatti etc, they also let Cole Forbes go after a making him a derisory offer and he's just won a Super Rugby title with Auckland.
That is not a pop at Glasgow, despite appearances, I'm trying to make the point that bringing players to Scotland is not necessarily the reason for failure or success.

We spent a great deal of time during the season without our best attacking players, that much is obvious, but what worries me is that we didn't see many patterns emerging that looked like breaking down defences. The 11 wins mean nothing unless we score try bonus points in both victory and defeat.

My overall impression is that we still haven't found the right head coach and support staff for whoever that may be.

[Monk]

Cockerill was never the guy to take things on, but a lot of what he identified was shocking. Players driving from one end of the ground to the other, SRU staff wandering in and out of the Edinburgh offices without a care in the world, etc.

you cannot be serious

[Biffer]

Cockerill was never the guy to take things on, but a lot of what he identified was shocking. Players driving from one end of the ground to the other, SRU staff wandering in and out of the Edinburgh offices without a care in the world, etc.

you cannot be serious

Referenced in here

https://www.unitedrugby.com/latest/excl ... t-im-doing

[Yr Alban]

I think Glasgow definitely kicked on and established their own identity after they adopted Scotstoun as their permanent home in 2012. Edinburgh have only had theirs for a couple of years, and I think are at an earlier stage in their development as a result.

Despite a couple of really disappointing results (Benetton home and away the key here), Edinburgh won 11 of 18 matches in the season just gone, which should easily have been enough to make the playoffs. Only the teams in 5th place and up won more; the Ospreys finished 8th with only 10 wins. The issue, as we all know, was not collecting enough BPs. How many games did they score 3 tries in? However, before condemning them too much, you have to take into account the loss of Darcy Graham and Boffelli to injury and Kinghorn to Toulouse. That’s a whole lot of try-scoring expertise not available.

I guess the point I’m making is that although Edinburgh’s season was certainly disappointing, add on an extra try in just a couple of games and they make the playoffs, and we’re probably saying they’re making progress. Even with the home loss to Benetton that someone accurately predicted at the time would ruin the season.

[I like neeps]

Stats and rankings in the URC are kind of pointless because half of the teams play their B team most weeks.

James Lang and Mark Bennett are two players I'm talking about. Lang isn't very good, he got capped for Scotland in a meaningless game which made it hard to find a contract down south. And now he's here, won't leave, won't improve the side, just existing as an average 12 without competition for his place. Same with Mark Bennett, replaced by Huw Jones for Glasgow and Scotland, the injuries have sadly done a number of him and now he's an okay-ish centre.

Scrum half is another good example - Price out of favour at Glasgow and Scotland - no worries though here's a nice contract. See also Ben Velacott and Scott Steele. It's not team building in any meaningful sense it's the SRU saying we need these guys to have a contract, their best days are behind them, you have them.

No way to build a team or a team spirit or culture of success. It's a culture of you're here as the SRU need players to have contracts just in case.

[inactionman]

I think Glasgow definitely kicked on and established their own identity after they adopted Scotstoun as their permanent home in 2012. Edinburgh have only had theirs for a couple of years, and I think are at an earlier stage in their development as a result.

Despite a couple of really disappointing results (Benetton home and away the key here), Edinburgh won 11 of 18 matches in the season just gone, which should easily have been enough to make the playoffs. Only the teams in 5th place and up won more; the Ospreys finished 8th with only 10 wins. The issue, as we all know, was not collecting enough BPs. How many games did they score 3 tries in? However, before condemning them too much, you have to take into account the loss of Darcy Graham and Boffelli to injury and Kinghorn to Toulouse. That’s a whole lot of try-scoring expertise not available.

I guess the point I’m making is that although Edinburgh’s season was certainly disappointing, add on an extra try in just a couple of games and they make the playoffs, and we’re probably saying they’re making progress. Even with the home loss to Benetton that someone accurately predicted at the time would ruin the season.

In terms of the new stadium, I'd agree there's much to be said for an appropriate home ground.

I remember watching Edinburgh in Myreside and - amazing as it is for a school ground - it was just not a professional facility. Atmospheres just never really built. Rattling round a windswept Murrayfield wasn't much of an improvement either, with the exception of the 1872 matches.

I've only been to the new stadium twice, once for Ulster and once for a forgettable Bath pre-season I forced poor Slick to sit through, but it actually felt like a proper club ground. Maybe the scaffolding and temporary toilets reminded me of the rec, who knows, but Scotstoun also has temporary stands and that feels like a real club ground. It does make a difference.

[Jockaline]

I agree with that, Edinburgh were close to the playoffs and got a good few wins, but rarely any bonus points which killed us. We seem to lack confidence and don't seem react well to pressure though.

The one player form Edinburgh that people say would make Scotland id Dulan, but I don't think he's that great a rugby player and maybe not that suited for us, he needs a team that's firing to make his chances. The other is Darcy and I'm sure we would have got to the playoffs if he had been fit, but it was very competitive an the South African teams means it will always be from now on.

[Biffer]

I think Glasgow definitely kicked on and established their own identity after they adopted Scotstoun as their permanent home in 2012. Edinburgh have only had theirs for a couple of years, and I think are at an earlier stage in their development as a result.

Despite a couple of really disappointing results (Benetton home and away the key here), Edinburgh won 11 of 18 matches in the season just gone, which should easily have been enough to make the playoffs. Only the teams in 5th place and up won more; the Ospreys finished 8th with only 10 wins. The issue, as we all know, was not collecting enough BPs. How many games did they score 3 tries in? However, before condemning them too much, you have to take into account the loss of Darcy Graham and Boffelli to injury and Kinghorn to Toulouse. That’s a whole lot of try-scoring expertise not available.

I guess the point I’m making is that although Edinburgh’s season was certainly disappointing, add on an extra try in just a couple of games and they make the playoffs, and we’re probably saying they’re making progress. Even with the home loss to Benetton that someone accurately predicted at the time would ruin the season.

In terms of the new stadium, I'd agree there's much to be said for an appropriate home ground.

I remember watching Edinburgh in Myreside and - amazing as it is for a school ground - it was just not a professional facility. Atmospheres just never really built. Rattling round a windswept Murrayfield wasn't much of an improvement either, with the exception of the 1872 matches.

I've only been to the new stadium twice, once for Ulster and once for a forgettable Bath pre-season I forced poor Slick to sit through, but it actually felt like a proper club ground. Maybe the scaffolding and temporary toilets reminded me of the rec, who knows, but Scotstoun also has temporary stands and that feels like a real club ground. It does make a difference.

The new stadium was bouncing for the Munster game at the end of the season - and most of it was home noise, not Irishmen. It's a vast improvement on everything we've had previously.

[SomersetJock]

I agree with that, Edinburgh were close to the playoffs and got a good few wins, but rarely any bonus points which killed us. We seem to lack confidence and don't seem react well to pressure though.

The one player form Edinburgh that people say would make Scotland id Dulan, but I don't think he's that great a rugby player and maybe not that suited for us, he needs a team that's firing to make his chances. The other is Darcy and I'm sure we would have got to the playoffs if he had been fit, but it was very competitive an the South African teams means it will always be from now on.

As a Glasgow fan I would prefer to see Darcy head West than Duhan. I think he is the best winger Scotland have despite some sensational moments from Duhan in recent years. Other players I would like to see in a Glasgow shirt would be Schuman & Jamie Richie. Right now I can’t think of another that would improve our squad, and even Jamie wouldn’t be a guaranteed starter for Glasgow (although many people including myself would see him starting over Darge for Scotland)

And I say that as someone who has looked at the Edinburgh squad with jealousy in recent years considering many players to be better than what we have, but somehow as a team have failed to deliver time and again. By comparison since Franco took over players like Jamie B, Zander, Cummings, Matt F, Kyle Steyn amongst others have really kicked on and upped their game.

Hopefully lessons could be learned from Glasgow and passed on to Edinburgh can up their game in the next few years !

[inactionman]

I agree with that, Edinburgh were close to the playoffs and got a good few wins, but rarely any bonus points which killed us. We seem to lack confidence and don't seem react well to pressure though.

The one player form Edinburgh that people say would make Scotland id Dulan, but I don't think he's that great a rugby player and maybe not that suited for us, he needs a team that's firing to make his chances. The other is Darcy and I'm sure we would have got to the playoffs if he had been fit, but it was very competitive an the South African teams means it will always be from now on.

As a Glasgow fan I would prefer to see Darcy head West than Duhan. I think he is the best winger Scotland have despite some sensational moments from Duhan in recent years. Other players I would like to see in a Glasgow shirt would be Schuman & Jamie Richie. Right now I can’t think of another that would improve our squad, and even Jamie wouldn’t be a guaranteed starter for Glasgow (although many people including myself would see him starting over Darge for Scotland)

And I say that as someone who has looked at the Edinburgh squad with jealousy in recent years considering many players to be better than what we have, but somehow as a team have failed to deliver time and again. By comparison since Franco took over players like Jamie B, Zander, Cummings, Matt F, Kyle Steyn amongst others have really kicked on and upped their game.

Hopefully lessons could be learned from Glasgow and passed on to Edinburgh can up their game in the next few years !

I agree. Speaking as an England fan, I'm amazed how in recent Tests we've made a decent, athletic but limited van der Merwe look like Shane Williams blended with Jonah Lomu. Darcy is a much, much better player.

[I like neeps]

Duhan is another player who took a big contract for Worcester (risky) they went bust, the SRU needed a top Scotland performer to have a big contract at short notice and gave him back to Edinburgh presumably affecting their budgets and plans pretty significantly. Just not really very effective squad planning.

It is a bit of a risk that Glasgow are taking with Hastings but if they keep hold of Jordan and they have Simpson coming though he doesn't have the option to continue stagnating as his career is over.

[Tichtheid]

vdMerwe is Scotland's second top try scorer, one behind Hoggy, he will be top dog soon enough, probably next month.
He's Edinburgh's second top try scorer after the ridiculous record Viss has - 69 tries to Duhan's 41, he's still nearly 40 games shy of Tim's appearances, so he can make a serious dent in that record in the next two or three years.
I'm happy enough to have him and I'd rather my team was playing with him in it than against him, same with Graham and Boff btw. Goosen stepped up this season as did Paterson in a couple of cameos. A couple of years ago we saw Hoyland, Jack Blain and Immelman move on, overall I think our back three is stronger right now. The younger lads like Hocking and Brown seem to be rated, but I guess we'll see with them

[Biffer]

Yeah, the continual negativity about Duhan is incredibly manufactured. If he was at Glasgow we'd hear nothing but praise.

[I like neeps]

Yeah, the continual negativity about Duhan is incredibly manufactured. If he was at Glasgow we'd hear nothing but praise.

I absolutely would play him for Scotland weekly as first pick.

Just saying it's yet more squad planning to the detriment to Edinburgh that he left, was replaced (not like for like ability wise as that doesn't exist in world rugby) and then resigned in a union panic. Edinburgh have too many union panics in their squad - Glasgow have actually quite few looking at it. Sutherland and Hastings maybe? But they won't be automatic first picks there for years no matter performance levels.

[Achahoish]

The SRU could do a similar thing in Edinburgh that the IRFU have done around Dublin by engaging fully with the private schools (could do the same in Glasgow).

But the clubs would scream and vote people out until they got what they wanted, whatever the fuck that is.

Can't help thinking Franco Smith would be the best man for that. Identify young talent and help develop it