The Rugby Championship - Round 4

[Gumboot]

Curtain Raiser

South Africa vs New Zealand

DHL Stadium, Cape Town
Local: 5pm, Sat 7 Sep
NZ: 3am, Sun 8 Sep
Aus: 1am, Sun 8 Sep
Arg: 12pm, Sat 7 Sep

Referee: Matthew Carley (Eng)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Brace (Ire), Jordan Way (Aus)
TMO: Ian Tempest (Eng)




Main Event

Argentina vs Australia

Estadio Brigadier General Estanislao López - Santa Fe
Local: 4pm, Sat 7 Sep
Aus: 5am, Sun 8 Sep
NZ: 7am, Sun 8 Sep
SA: 9pm, Sat 7 Sep

Referee: Pierre Brousset (Fra)
Assistant Referee 1: Ben O'Keeffe (NZ)
Assistant Referee 2: James Doleman (NZ)
TMO: Marius Jonker (SA)

[Kiwias]

I'll sort this post out when I have a bit more time, and there's some game info available...

Assuming the Boks side will be named soon?

Feel free to post any useful details and I'll update this OP, cheers.

I saw somewhere that Rassie will name the Boks on Thursday this time

[Sandstorm]

Thursday is correct

[OomStruisbaai]

Referee: Matthew Carley (RFU)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Brace (IRFU), Jordan Way (RA)
TMO: Ian Tempest (RFU)

[handyman]

Referee: Matthew Carley (RFU)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Brace (IRFU), Jordan Way (RA)
TMO: Ian Tempest (RFU)

I have more confidence in Carley than Brace.

[OomStruisbaai]

Libbok and Kitshoff back in Bok group

[Blake]

Libbok and Kitshoff back in Bok group

You think it’s for this Saturday’s squad, or more likely for a recall against the Argies?

[OomStruisbaai]

Libbok and Kitshoff back in Bok group

You think it’s for this Saturday’s squad, or more likely for a recall against the Argies?

Kitshoff played 70 mins for WP. Springboks scrums wasn't great, so he will be either on the bench or starts. Libbok and Moerat will probably start.

[Blake]

It's interesting and could explain why there has been such a delay in announcing the team, but I have to be honest that I'd be very disappointed if any of Kitshoff, Moerat or Libbok made it into Saturday's 23. I'm cool with all 3 starting against the Argies, but against NZ I feel like Steenekamp was fine (and had some strong carries in the loose), Nortje was excellent Pollard is a nice stable option.

I'm not convinced Kitshoff is in peak form, I've never been a massive fan of Moerat and while I support and like Libbok, SFM has really seized on his opportunities and is a great blend of all the best bits of Libbok and Pollard in one player. If SFM gets injured in the match or has a off day, I'd rather bring in Iceman and grind out a boring win than flaky Libbok and make it a lottery.

[handyman]

It's interesting and could explain why there has been such a delay in announcing the team, but I have to be honest that I'd be very disappointed if any of Kitshoff, Moerat or Libbok made it into Saturday's 23. I'm cool with all 3 starting against the Argies, but against NZ I feel like Steenekamp was fine (and had some strong carries in the loose), Nortje was excellent Pollard is a nice stable option.

I'm not convinced Kitshoff is in peak form, I've never been a massive fan of Moerat and while I support and like Libbok, SFM has really seized on his opportunities and is a great blend of all the best bits of Libbok and Pollard in one player. If SFM gets injured in the match or has a off day, I'd rather bring in Iceman and grind out a boring win than flaky Libbok and make it a lottery.

Yeah agree with that. Kitsie might be a bit of pace.

[Sards]

It's interesting and could explain why there has been such a delay in announcing the team, but I have to be honest that I'd be very disappointed if any of Kitshoff, Moerat or Libbok made it into Saturday's 23. I'm cool with all 3 starting against the Argies, but against NZ I feel like Steenekamp was fine (and had some strong carries in the loose), Nortje was excellent Pollard is a nice stable option.

I'm not convinced Kitshoff is in peak form, I've never been a massive fan of Moerat and while I support and like Libbok, SFM has really seized on his opportunities and is a great blend of all the best bits of Libbok and Pollard in one player. If SFM gets injured in the match or has a off day, I'd rather bring in Iceman and grind out a boring win than flaky Libbok and make it a lottery.

Yeah agree with that. Kitsie might be a bit of pace.

Kittsy struggled against a Sharks Currie Cup scrum.
He really is becoming a spent force.
I am not comfortable with Moerat anywhere near the ABs. His work rate is very low and he misses a lot of tackles 50 percent. And he has no influence going forward...According to the analysis of his international matches

[boere wors]

Kitsy has been terrible at the RWC and obviously afterwards in Ireland as well. Why is he even in contention for the boks?!

[bok_viking]

It's interesting and could explain why there has been such a delay in announcing the team, but I have to be honest that I'd be very disappointed if any of Kitshoff, Moerat or Libbok made it into Saturday's 23. I'm cool with all 3 starting against the Argies, but against NZ I feel like Steenekamp was fine (and had some strong carries in the loose), Nortje was excellent Pollard is a nice stable option.

I'm not convinced Kitshoff is in peak form, I've never been a massive fan of Moerat and while I support and like Libbok, SFM has really seized on his opportunities and is a great blend of all the best bits of Libbok and Pollard in one player. If SFM gets injured in the match or has a off day, I'd rather bring in Iceman and grind out a boring win than flaky Libbok and make it a lottery.

I fully agree on this, I do not think Kitshoff is in the right form and ready to be back in the bok squad, he did not look like he was in great form playing for WP on the weekend. For me Libbok is always going to be a risk, you never know if you will get a world beating performance or a 1/10 performance from him on the day. I said before that he seems to be another Jantjies that turns out fantastic performances for his franchise when the pressure is not very high but can't string a few good performances for the boks together, his mind seems to go when he makes a mistake early on in the game. Moerat just does not seem to have the "mongrel" across the park, decent in lineouts but always appear to lack intensity in the open play. I feel there are several younger locks in SA that have better potential than Moerat at this stage.

[Sards]

Kitsy has been terrible at the RWC and obviously afterwards in Ireland as well. Why is he even in contention for the boks?!

Because our scrum didn't get dominance against a much improved AB scrum
Let's be honest. Kittsy won't fix that

[Sards]

It's interesting and could explain why there has been such a delay in announcing the team, but I have to be honest that I'd be very disappointed if any of Kitshoff, Moerat or Libbok made it into Saturday's 23. I'm cool with all 3 starting against the Argies, but against NZ I feel like Steenekamp was fine (and had some strong carries in the loose), Nortje was excellent Pollard is a nice stable option.

I'm not convinced Kitshoff is in peak form, I've never been a massive fan of Moerat and while I support and like Libbok, SFM has really seized on his opportunities and is a great blend of all the best bits of Libbok and Pollard in one player. If SFM gets injured in the match or has a off day, I'd rather bring in Iceman and grind out a boring win than flaky Libbok and make it a lottery.

I fully agree on this, I do not think Kitshoff is in the right form and ready to be back in the bok squad, he did not look like he was in great form playing for WP on the weekend. For me Libbok is always going to be a risk, you never know if you will get a world beating performance or a 1/10 performance from him on the day. I said before that he seems to be another Jantjies that turns out fantastic performances for his franchise when the pressure is not very high but can't string a few good performances for the boks together, his mind seems to go when he makes a mistake early on in the game. Moerat just does not seem to have the "mongrel" across the park, decent in lineouts but always appear to lack intensity in the open play. I feel there are several younger locks in SA that have better potential than Moerat at this stage.

Moerat has a lock partner at the Stormers who is in very good form and thrice the player Moerat is since he moved from the Sharks. The only reason Moerat is there ahead of him is because Rassie is pleasing the Cape Crusaders brigade.

[OomStruisbaai]

It's interesting and could explain why there has been such a delay in announcing the team, but I have to be honest that I'd be very disappointed if any of Kitshoff, Moerat or Libbok made it into Saturday's 23. I'm cool with all 3 starting against the Argies, but against NZ I feel like Steenekamp was fine (and had some strong carries in the loose), Nortje was excellent Pollard is a nice stable option.

I'm not convinced Kitshoff is in peak form, I've never been a massive fan of Moerat and while I support and like Libbok, SFM has really seized on his opportunities and is a great blend of all the best bits of Libbok and Pollard in one player. If SFM gets injured in the match or has a off day, I'd rather bring in Iceman and grind out a boring win than flaky Libbok and make it a lottery.

I fully agree on this, I do not think Kitshoff is in the right form and ready to be back in the bok squad, he did not look like he was in great form playing for WP on the weekend. For me Libbok is always going to be a risk, you never know if you will get a world beating performance or a 1/10 performance from him on the day. I said before that he seems to be another Jantjies that turns out fantastic performances for his franchise when the pressure is not very high but can't string a few good performances for the boks together, his mind seems to go when he makes a mistake early on in the game. Moerat just does not seem to have the "mongrel" across the park, decent in lineouts but always appear to lack intensity in the open play. I feel there are several younger locks in SA that have better potential than Moerat at this stage.

Moerat has a lock partner at the Stormers who is in very good form and thrice the player Moerat is since he moved from the Sharks. The only reason Moerat is there ahead of him is because Rassie is pleasing the Cape Crusaders brigade.

nibble, nibble, nibble, nibble. You never disappoint.

Moerat will be captain if Kolisi isnt available. Kitshoff dominate Sampie in the scrums on sunday. Our scrum went backwards with Steenkamp.
R365

Human alluded that Springbok prop Steven Kitshoff might beef up the front row this week.

The double World Cup winner has not featured in the Springboks’ Test this year after he picked up a knee injury while playing for Ulster in April.

The loosehead has played for Western Province in the Currie Cup on two occasions.

Although Kitshoff’s lack of game time could be a concern, Human said the fact that he will play at his home ground in Cape Town is a factor when it comes to selection.

“Kitsie has only been back for two games now and I had a close look at his game for Western Province [against the Pumas on Sunday] – they had a good win,” said Human.

“We are looking at all the options and we will consider the fact that it is also his home ground that we are playing at this weekend.

“It will influence our selection and playing in front of his home crowd, he’s from here; it can be a thing that we think about.”

He added: “He will be a valuable asset if he is 100 percent fit to play on this level.”

[_Os_]

My pick:

Kitshoff, Am, Mapimpi, Le Roux all coming back in. Libbok won't be in the 23, Pollard could be starting. This match would've been planned to have a stronger 23 than Ellis Park, it's a two match series meaning the one they would've planned for more to prevent the other side winning the series is the second test. Bringing about 5 top players in fresh is a big advantage.

[OomStruisbaai]

My pick:

Kitshoff, Am, Mapimpi, Le Roux all coming back in. Libbok won't be in the 23, Pollard could be starting. This match would've been planned to have a stronger 23 than Ellis Park, it's a two match series meaning the one they would've planned for more to prevent the other side winning the series is the second test. Bringing about 5 top experience players in fresh is a big advantage.

Can live with that. SMZ will be in the 23 because of his versatility.

[handyman]

It's interesting and could explain why there has been such a delay in announcing the team, but I have to be honest that I'd be very disappointed if any of Kitshoff, Moerat or Libbok made it into Saturday's 23. I'm cool with all 3 starting against the Argies, but against NZ I feel like Steenekamp was fine (and had some strong carries in the loose), Nortje was excellent Pollard is a nice stable option.

I'm not convinced Kitshoff is in peak form, I've never been a massive fan of Moerat and while I support and like Libbok, SFM has really seized on his opportunities and is a great blend of all the best bits of Libbok and Pollard in one player. If SFM gets injured in the match or has a off day, I'd rather bring in Iceman and grind out a boring win than flaky Libbok and make it a lottery.

Yeah agree with that. Kitsie might be a bit of pace.

Kittsy struggled against a Sharks Currie Cup scrum.
He really is becoming a spent force.
I am not comfortable with Moerat anywhere near the ABs. His work rate is very low and he misses a lot of tackles 50 percent. And he has no influence going forward...According to the analysis of his international matches

Trying way too hard here bro.

[TheNatalShark]

Start SFM and Williams.

Still don't like de Allende's lapses with ball when Am can do his D work, so Am/Kriel combo

Kitsoff is done for the moment.

[OomStruisbaai]

Am & Kitshie is definitely in the game 23.

[Gumboot]

[Enzedder]

Hmmm, so he put the blame on Perenara?

(good call )

Chiefs to save the day

[Gumboot]

Blackadder and Clarke are both injured.

Perenara and Beauden back to the bench. Hopefully they can bring some much-needed impact when they come on.

Papali'i is fit but missed selection. Sititi starting at blindside is interesting. I think Finau's fit, but he's been dropped again... not good.

Massive test for Ratima...

[Guy Smiley]

Blackadder and Clarke are both injured.

Perenara and Beauden back to the bench. Hopefully they can bring some much-needed impact when they come on.

Papali'i is fit but missed selection. Sititi starting at blindside is interesting. I think Finau's fit, but he's been dropped again... not good.

Massive test for Ratima...

I'm not sure how much Sititi has errrr... played at 6.

As much as I reckon Razor is limited a little by the need to placate the conservative element within NZR at large, this is the sort of change he will slide into the set up. One of his trademarks is having guys slot into his teams to play the style he wants them to so I hope this works out ok for everyone concerned.

Like wise with BB and Perenara... I think both of them have been given a heads up about where they sit regarding the future and this is a step further towards it.

[Gumboot]

Savea 190cm, Cane 189, Sititi 187 - have we ever started such a short backrow?

[Guy Smiley]

Last week?

Blackadder's 190.

[Guy Smiley]

and Luke Jacobson is 1.91... eeeeek

[Gumboot]

Razor must have introduced a policy of only selecting midgets...

[Gumboot]

Perhaps Tamaiti Williams at 196 is our new third lineout jumper? Wouldn't wanna be his lifters...

[Guy Smiley]

Blackadder's been winning quite a bit of lineout ball. I'm not sure the lack of height will be that big a disadvantage, because I am a hopeless optimist.

[Moral Dilemma]

Savea 190cm, Cane 189, Sititi 187 - have we ever started such a short backrow?

Zinny, Kronfeld, and Iceman, instantly springs to mind.

Shame about Blackadder always being broken. This happens at every level for the poor guy. Starts to build some form up, then falls over.

Good to see BB dropped to the bench, though. It simply had to happen.

[Guy Smiley]

Nice to see you here, MD

BB's days have to be numbered. Love is in the squad along with Plummer. I know the ABs is not a development arena, but there is some personnel to bring into the game and sooner is better than later when we think of ages and RWC cycles.

[Gumboot]

Savea 190cm, Cane 189, Sititi 187 - have we ever started such a short backrow?

Zinny, Kronfeld, and Iceman, instantly springs to mind.

Jeez, didn't realise those guys were so short! Mind you, Iceman had springs in his heels, and they played mostly in the pre-lifting days.

[Kiwias]

I am interested to see how Sititi performs at this level and really pleased with Jordan at 15 and BB on the bench. Luckily, neither Bok wing is very tall so our lack of height there should not be a problem.

[Guy Smiley]

I am interested to see how Sititi performs at this level and really pleased with Jordan at 15 and BB on the bench. Luckily, neither Bok wing is very tall so our lack of height there should not be a problem.

Reece plays a very mobile, roving sort of winger's role. He could move inboard and Jordie could drop back if height becomes a major issue.

No-one's really talking about Rieko. He's becoming the Reuben Thorne of centres.

[Guy Smiley]

Razor's press conference on the team naming. Some... dumb questions

[Guy Smiley]

Boks named...

[Moral Dilemma]

Nice to see you here, MD

BB's days have to be numbered. Love is in the squad along with Plummer. I know the ABs is not a development arena, but there is some personnel to bring into the game and sooner is better than later when we think of ages and RWC cycles.

It's been a while, Guy! It is good to see a number of regulars about on here. I lost my PR password, but I think this place suits my pace nowadays, so I'll pop in every now and again to have a whine.

BB? Frustrated the hell out of me last game, as he has done so many times before. I hope that's the last we see of him as a starting 10/15. I actually don't want him back at the Blues next season... ah well.

[Moral Dilemma]

Savea 190cm, Cane 189, Sititi 187 - have we ever started such a short backrow?

Zinny, Kronfeld, and Iceman, instantly springs to mind.

Jeez, didn't realise those guys were so short! Mind you, Iceman had springs in his heels, and they played mostly in the pre-lifting days.

Also, Zinny wore custom made stubbies as well - made his legs look longer, and thus he looked deceptively taller than he actually is.