Bledisloe I: All Blacks vs Wallabies: MATCH THREAD: Oct 11

[Gumboot]

I bet Foster will make a statement by naming Beauden Barrett at 10.

Like Hansen, he loves Barrett and wants to please him after Barrett loudly proclaimed it was his favourite position earlier this year.

Mo'unga will have to ride the pine until it becomes painfully obvious, once again, that Barrett struggles against a rush defence.

What's the match day 23 you think they'll pick?

[FujiKiwi]

I think Jimmy should be more worried about Beaudy being picked at 10 and going well than him struggling.

Hypothetical anyway. I’m sure they’ll pick Ritchie at 10, Beauden at 15.

[Gumboot]

I think Jimmy should be more worried about Beaudy being picked at 10 and going well than him struggling.

Hypothetical anyway. I’m sure they’ll pick Ritchie at 10, Beauden at 15.

It's always fun speculating on the first team selection of a new era. This is my guess:

15 Jordie Barrett
14 Sevu Reece
13 Rieko Ioane
12 Jack Goodhue
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Richie Mo'unga
9 Aaron Smith
8 Hoskins Sotutu
7 Sam Cane (c)
6 Shannon Frizell
5 Patrick Tuipulotu
4 Sam Whitelock
3 Ofa Tuunafasi
2 Codie Taylor
1 Joe Moody

16 Dane Coles
17 Karl Tu'inukuafe
18 Nepo Laulala
19 Tupou Vaa'i
20 Ardie Savea
21 TJ Perenara
22 Beauden Barrett
23 Anton Lienert-Brown

[FujiKiwi]

You might be close, Gumboot, although I can’t quite believe they’ll leave Beauden on the bench.

I heard Fozzie talking up Rieko in his statements to the journalists the other day, so I’m afraid you might be right there. Madness if it happens. ALB so much better.

[stemoc]

the wobblies will be running a newbie at 13 (assuming hodge is 15) so reiko vs JP is in the card...if TK was around, i doubt fozzie would risk reiko there and instead run ALB.. time for reiko to shine at 13 i suppose..if the wobs name a newb at 13, the abs should run their best centre in SRA this year as well..

[Dan54]

I think Jimmy should be more worried about Beaudy being picked at 10 and going well than him struggling.

Hypothetical anyway. I’m sure they’ll pick Ritchie at 10, Beauden at 15.

It's always fun speculating on the first team selection of a new era. This is my guess:

15 Jordie Barrett
14 Sevu Reece
13 Rieko Ioane
12 Jack Goodhue
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Richie Mo'unga
9 Aaron Smith
8 Hoskins Sotutu
7 Sam Cane (c)
6 Shannon Frizell
5 Patrick Tuipulotu
4 Sam Whitelock
3 Ofa Tuunafasi
2 Codie Taylor
1 Joe Moody

16 Dane Coles
17 Karl Tu'inukuafe
18 Nepo Laulala
19 Tupou Vaa'i
20 Ardie Savea
21 TJ Perenara
22 Beauden Barrett
23 Anton Lienert-Brown

Got to say Gumboots, pretty well bang on with team I would like to see out there, though I be pretty happy with ALB ahead of Goodhue, but only a coin toss in it. I like the idea of Ardie and BB coming of bench, though think perhaps Ardie may get 8, not sure he would against the Bokke. I pretty keen on BB and Ardie coming on against tiring team. Saying that I will be pretty happy with whoever starts as they will get mixed over next 4 weeks as we playing Wallabies 4 times in a row. So if we lose we will HAVE to change, we win can afford to experiment a bit.

[Flockwitt]

That's where the team might end up in the not too distant future. But can't see Foster putting out so many new combinations out for a first Bled.

[FujiKiwi]

I do like Gumboot’s vision of Sotutu and Frizell starting. Don’t think Foster will go with it though.

[Monkey Magic]

Can't see them leaving arguably our two best players from last year in Ardie and alb on the bench

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I bet Foster will make a statement by naming Beauden Barrett at 10.

Like Hansen, he loves Barrett and wants to please him after Barrett loudly proclaimed it was his favourite position earlier this year.

Mo'unga will have to ride the pine until it becomes painfully obvious, once again, that Barrett struggles against a rush defence.

What's the match day 23 you think they'll pick?

Here's the 23 I think they'll go with. Note that it is not the match day squad I would go with.

15 Jordie Barrett
14 Sevu Reece
13 Jack Goodhue
12 Anton Lienert-Brown
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Beauden Barrett
9 Aaron Smith
8 Ardie Savea
7 Sam Cane (c)
6 Shannon Frizell
5 Patrick Tuipulotu
4 Sam Whitelock
3 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2 Dane Coles
1 Joe Moody

16 Codie Taylor
17 Karl Tu'inukuafe
18 Nepo Laulala
19 Tupou Vaa'i
20 Hoskins Sotutu
21 TJ Perenara
22 Richie Mo'unga
23 Reiko Ioane

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I think Jimmy should be more worried about Beaudy being picked at 10 and going well than him struggling.

Hypothetical anyway. I’m sure they’ll pick Ritchie at 10, Beauden at 15.

That's a distinct possibility.

For some strange reason the Wallabies have tended to hang off Barrett repeatedly such that he often looks like a God against them.

[Carter's Choice]

Seems to be general agreement on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and Josh Goodhue playing at 12 or 13. The debate is at 8, 10, the make up of the midfield and the back three. Foster will annoy lots of AB fans regardless of the XXIII that he picks. Welcome to being the AB head coach Ian!

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Seems to be general agreement on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and Josh Goodhue playing at 12 or 13. The debate is at 8, 10, the make up of the midfield and the back three. Foster will annoy lots of AB fans regardless of the XXIII that he picks. Welcome to being the AB head coach Ian!

[Flockwitt]

I bet Foster will make a statement by naming Beauden Barrett at 10.

Like Hansen, he loves Barrett and wants to please him after Barrett loudly proclaimed it was his favourite position earlier this year.

Mo'unga will have to ride the pine until it becomes painfully obvious, once again, that Barrett struggles against a rush defence.

What's the match day 23 you think they'll pick?

Here's the 23 I think they'll go with. Note that it is not the match day squad I would go with.

15 Jordie Barrett
14 Sevu Reece
13 Jack Goodhue
12 Anton Lienert-Brown
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Beauden Barrett
9 Aaron Smith
8 Ardie Savea
7 Sam Cane (c)
6 Shannon Frizell
5 Patrick Tuipulotu
4 Sam Whitelock
3 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2 Dane Coles
1 Joe Moody

16 Codie Taylor
17 Karl Tu'inukuafe
18 Nepo Laulala
19 Tupou Vaa'i
20 Hoskins Sotutu
21 TJ Perenara
22 Richie Mo'unga
23 Reiko Ioane

This is more my thinking also. Go with the established 12/13 combo for solid mid-field defense. Introduce new caps or players into new positions off the bench.

[Gumboot]

What's the match day 23 you think they'll pick?

Here's the 23 I think they'll go with. Note that it is not the match day squad I would go with.

15 Jordie Barrett
14 Sevu Reece
13 Jack Goodhue
12 Anton Lienert-Brown
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Beauden Barrett
9 Aaron Smith
8 Ardie Savea
7 Sam Cane (c)
6 Shannon Frizell
5 Patrick Tuipulotu
4 Sam Whitelock
3 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2 Dane Coles
1 Joe Moody

16 Codie Taylor
17 Karl Tu'inukuafe
18 Nepo Laulala
19 Tupou Vaa'i
20 Hoskins Sotutu
21 TJ Perenara
22 Richie Mo'unga
23 Reiko Ioane

It wouldn't be a huge surprise to see Beauden selected at 10. Interesting that pretty much nobody seems to think Jordan, McKenzie or Bridge will be picked.

[Dan54]

Seems to be general agreement on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and Josh Goodhue playing at 12 or 13. The debate is at 8, 10, the make up of the midfield and the back three. Foster will annoy lots of AB fans regardless of the XXIII that he picks. Welcome to being the AB head coach Ian!

How right, do you think maybe it's why they don't read rugby forums? Geez all our knowledge wasted!

[JPNZ]

137 posts on this match thread vs 23 on the other forum. Good to see

What time is team naming today? Who takes the fullback role JB vs BB is the most interesting for me. If BB starts at 10, I'll look at putting an insurance bet on Aus.

[Gumboot]

What time is team naming today?

11:30am NZT, so in about 50 minutes.

[JPNZ]

Just read this in the press here at work, almost a tear to the eye.

Diehard Sydney rugby fan Chris Walker has put his money where his heart is in support of the Wallabies ahead of their “incredibly tough’’ Bledisloe Cup match against the All Blacks in Wellington on Sunday.

Walker, 81, has taken out a full-page ad in The Press on Friday, and while the thrust of it is a message of support for the Wallabies, he also takes New Zealand Rugby to task over its attitude in its dealing with its rugby partners.

“If we had a chance to choose whom from the world’s countries we wanted for neighbours, most of us would go for Kiwis. They think like us, they’re not short of ticker and we’ve been in trenches with them over 100 years,’’ Walker says in the ad.

[Jb1981]

Is this some attempted mental manipulation from the Wallabies to get Foster to “show them” by picking Barrett at 10?

“Both of those players are exceptional players, word-class players, [but] you'd think that Mo’unga would start, maybe with Aaron Smith,” Wallabies defence coach Matt Taylor said on Thursday

.

[Steve]

My guess

15 Spongebob Barrett
14 Will Jordan
13 Jack Goodhue
12 Anton Lienert-Brown
11 Rieko Ioane
10 Mo'unga
9 Aaron Smith
8 Ardie Savea
7 Sam Cane (c)
6 Shannon Frizell
5 Patrick Tuipulotu
4 Sam Whitelock
3 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2 Dane Coles
1 Joe Moody

16 Codie Taylor
17 Karl Tu'inukuafe
18 Nepo Laulala
19 Tupou Vaa'i
20 Hoskins Sotutu
21 TJ Perenara
22 Laumape
23 Udon Barrett

[murdoch]

Anyone know what channel this will be on in the US?

ESPN+?
NBC?
Will Rugby pass carry it?

[Gumboot]

The matchday 23 is as follows (Test caps in brackets):

1. Joe Moody (46)
2. Codie Taylor (50)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (35)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (30)
5. Samuel Whitelock (117)
6. Shannon Frizell (9)
7. Sam Cane (68) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (44)
9. Aaron Smith (92)
10. Richie Mo'unga (17)
11. George Bridge (9)
12. Jack Goodhue (13)
13. Rieko Ioane (29)
14. Jordie Barrett (17)
15. Beauden Barrett (83)


16. Dane Coles (69)
17. Karl Tu'inukuafe (13)
18. Nepo Laulala (26)
19. Tupou Vaa'i - debut
20. Hoskins Sotutu - debut
21. TJ Perenara (64)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (43)
23. Caleb Clarke - debut

[JPNZ]

Anyone know what channel this will be on in the US?

ESPN+?
NBC?
Will Rugby pass carry it?

Its on rugbypass

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

The matchday 23 is as follows (Test caps in brackets):

1. Joe Moody (46)
2. Codie Taylor (50)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (35)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (30)
5. Samuel Whitelock (117)
6. Shannon Frizell (9)
7. Sam Cane (68) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (44)
9. Aaron Smith (92)
10. Richie Mo'unga (17)
11. George Bridge (9)
12. Jack Goodhue (13)
13. Rieko Ioane (29)
14. Jordie Barrett (17)
15. Beauden Barrett (83)


16. Dane Coles (69)
17. Karl Tu'inukuafe (13)
18. Nepo Laulala (26)
19. Tupou Vaa'i - debut
20. Hoskins Sotutu - debut
21. TJ Perenara (64)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (43)
23. Caleb Clarke - debut

I have mixed thoughts about this. I'm very relieved to see Mo'unga get the nod at 10, that is the right call. The loose forward mix is good and the midfield is very exciting, even if I would have gone for the safer option of ALB over Ioane.

I'm not thrilled about the back three. I think there's an imbalance there in favour of Unwieldy White Guys. I'd have liked to see one of our flyers like Reece in the mix.

[Gumboot]

[Steve]

The matchday 23 is as follows (Test caps in brackets):

1. Joe Moody (46)
2. Codie Taylor (50)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (35)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (30)
5. Samuel Whitelock (117)
6. Shannon Frizell (9)
7. Sam Cane (68) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (44)
9. Aaron Smith (92)
10. Richie Mo'unga (17)
11. George Bridge (9)
12. Jack Goodhue (13)
13. Rieko Ioane (29)
14. Jordie Barrett (17)
15. Beauden Barrett (83)


16. Dane Coles (69)
17. Karl Tu'inukuafe (13)
18. Nepo Laulala (26)
19. Tupou Vaa'i - debut
20. Hoskins Sotutu - debut
21. TJ Perenara (64)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (43)
23. Caleb Clarke - debut

I have mixed thoughts about this. I'm very relieved to see Mo'unga get the nod at 10, that is the right call. The loose forward mix is good and the midfield is very exciting, even if I would have gone for the safer option of ALB over Ioane.

I'm not thrilled about the back three. I think there's an imbalance there in favour of Unwieldy White Guys. I'd have liked to see one of our flyers like Reece in the mix.

I don't disagree with what you are saying , but I don't think Reece is the panacea you are looking for either. The current Allblack wings don't get me up of the couch ball in hand from 40/50 yards out like a Sivivatu , Rokocoko, Howlett, Naholo or Gear did in the past. Reece doesn't score a try like Naholo did against Georgia in RWC 2015 for instance. I think Reece is a functional winger in a really good Canterbury team. But I think anyone on the wing for that Crusaders team would clean up. Wes Goosen would score as much on that team.

[Steve]

My other worry is that Cane and Savea are so good that its Frizzell (or whoever is playing 6) that gets hooked for Sotutu. This will move Cane to 6, Savea to 7 and Sotutu comes in at 8. 3 changes for the sake of 1 could ruin momentum and cohesion.

[Jb1981]

I have mixed thoughts about this. I'm very relieved to see Mo'unga get the nod at 10, that is the right call. The loose forward mix is good and the midfield is very exciting, even if I would have gone for the safer option of ALB over Ioane.

I'm not thrilled about the back three. I think there's an imbalance there in favour of Unwieldy White Guys. I'd have liked to see one of our flyers like Reece in the mix.

I have similar thoughts. I think they have the wrong Barrett at 15 and I’m not convinced that Jordie is a great wing option. Reece or even Jordan would have been my preference.

Besides that, I hope “dual playmakers” didn’t get mentioned too often at the press conference. If that team is going to work best, Mo’unga needs the freedom to run the ship. Barrett can come in when it’s on but he needs to get the balance right.

[Steve]

I have mixed thoughts about this. I'm very relieved to see Mo'unga get the nod at 10, that is the right call. The loose forward mix is good and the midfield is very exciting, even if I would have gone for the safer option of ALB over Ioane.

I'm not thrilled about the back three. I think there's an imbalance there in favour of Unwieldy White Guys. I'd have liked to see one of our flyers like Reece in the mix.

I have similar thoughts. I think they have the wrong Barrett at 15 and I’m not convinced that Jordie is a great wing option. Reece or even Jordan would have been my preference.

Besides that, I hope “dual playmakers” didn’t get mentioned too often at the press conference. If that team is going to work best, Mo’unga needs the freedom to run the ship. Barrett can come in when it’s on but he needs to get the balance right.

The team will function better when Beauden goes to Japan. For better or for worse there is too much "accommodating" going on now in the starting 15. I think long term its detrimental to everyone. You could argue the same thing is happening in the backrow.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

My other worry is that Cane and Savea are so good that its Frizzell (or whoever is playing 6) that gets hooked for Sotutu. This will move Cane to 6, Savea to 7 and Sotutu comes in at 8. 3 changes for the sake of 1 could ruin momentum and cohesion.

In this scenario I don't see why Cane wouldn't stay at 7 and Savea move to 6. Savea has played there before, and very effectively too.

[mrbrownstone]

A surprisingly uncontroversial team tbh.

Personally I think Laulala is better starting and Tu'ungafasi is a better impact sub, but I expect they'll share minutes pretty evenly so that's a minor complaint.

I'm not convinced Reiko is a test level midfielder, and it seems particularly harsh after ALB was probably our standout back at the RWC last year. It also means Goodhue has to play in his weaker position.

I don't mind the back three, but like others have said, I would think if you were going to go for the Barrett squared combo, you'd fit a Clarke/Reece/Jordan/Ioane type on the other wing. It will very much be a clash of styles, with the All Blacks essentially picking three fullback style wingers, compared to the Wallabies picking two out and out finishers in Koroibete and Daugunu.

On the bench I'd have preferred Jordan over Clarke, but someone was always going to miss out in that back three logjam.

[mrbrownstone]

Wallabies: Tom Banks, Filipo Daugunu, Hunter Paisami, Matt To'omua, Marika Koroibete, James O'Connor, Nic White, Harry Wilson, Michael Hooper (c), Pete Samu, Matt Philip, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Taniela Tupou, Folau Fainga'a, James Slipper. Reserves: Jordan Uelese, Scott Sio, Allan Alaalatoa, Rob Simmons, Rob Valetini, Jake Gordon Noah Lolesio, Reece Hodge.

[Steve]

Wallabies: Tom Banks, Filipo Daugunu, Hunter Paisami, Matt To'omua, Marika Koroibete, James O'Connor, Nic White, Harry Wilson, Michael Hooper (c), Pete Samu, Matt Philip, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Taniela Tupou, Folau Fainga'a, James Slipper. Reserves: Jordan Uelese, Scott Sio, Allan Alaalatoa, Rob Simmons, Rob Valetini, Jake Gordon Noah Lolesio, Reece Hodge.

Don't see much to worry about there.

[mrbrownstone]

So the following players missed selection: Tyrel Lomax, Cullen Grace, Peter Umaga-Jensen, Asafo Aumua, Alex Hodgman, Akira Ioane, Dalton Papalii, Mitchell Dunshea, Brad Weber, Sevu Reece, Will Jordan and Damian McKenzie.

When you look at it like that, it's fair to say we've pretty much got our best 23, with Jordan and Reece probably being the two unluckiest to miss out.

[Carter's Choice]

1. Joe Moody (46)
2. Codie Taylor (50)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (35)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (30)
5. Samuel Whitelock (117)
6. Shannon Frizell (9)
7. Sam Cane (68) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (44)
9. Aaron Smith (92)
10. Richie Mo'unga (17)
11. George Bridge (9)
12. Jack Goodhue (13)
13. Rieko Ioane (29)
14. Jordie Barrett (17)
15. Beauden Barrett (83)


16. Dane Coles (69)
17. Karl Tu'inukuafe (13)
18. Nepo Laulala (26)
19. Tupou Vaa'i - debut
20. Hoskins Sotutu - debut
21. TJ Perenara (64)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (43)
23. Caleb Clarke - debut

Very interesting AB team. Probably our safest, whitest back three for a while. If BB really has lost his attacking mojo than this could be the most impotent back three that the AB's have started in the pro era. Our most threatening strike weapon is Ioane at 13. Hopefully Clarke gets plenty of match time. The rest of the team pretty much picks itself, so if my only gripe is the wing selections then it must be a very good team.

I agree with mr brownstone that Laulala is a better starting player than bench option, but Ofa's form is too good not to start him. The luckiest player in NZ rugby right now is Toupou Vaa'i. I wonder if he'll end up being another Vaea Fifita. Looking forward to seeing Hoksins Sotutu getting a run.

Overall a solid, safe and predictable team. I predicted a team back in Sept, and aside from Strange's injury I only got one position wrong - I picked Clarke at 11 over Bridge.

[Kiwias]

Not overly worried about the forwards but find it hard to believe that JB is one of the two best wingers in the country.

[Jambanja]

Not overly worried about the forwards but find it hard to believe that JB is one of the two best wingers in the country.

Yep, bit surprised about that myself

[Flockwitt]

Suspect there is a bit of game plan in all that. Expect plenty of kicking from both Richie and BB, up and across.

[Ted.]

Not overly worried about the forwards but find it hard to believe that JB is one of the two best wingers in the country.

Yeah, nothing frightening in the forwards, except the best 7 isn't playing and arguably, the best 8. We should still get by.

As for Jordy, no he's not anywhere near the best or 2nd best wing in the country. He's arguably the form fullback, along with Jordan.

Not sure about Reiko at centre either. IMO, we'd have been better off with Goodhue there with ALB at 12, which is categorically not Goodhue's better position.