The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Yr Alban]

48-0 at HT

Seriously?

Yep. And it was every bit as one-sided as that. Lions were running in tries from everywhere, looking unplayable. Edinburgh looking lethargic, putting up token resistance only. Falling off tackles, turned over easily (FFS, Schoeman was turned over physically at one ruck), losing their own lineout throws. Utterly dreadful.

I couldn’t watch after HT. They did score three tries in the second half, but as I said earlier, they also let one in when they had 15 v 14. They also couldn’t score a 4th, as usual, though to extract a TBP from a performance as bad as that would have had an element of black comedy about it.

[I like neeps]

Hard to shake the feeling that something is very, very wrong behind the scenes. Has the coach lost the dressing room?

It’s difficult not to think that might be part of the problem.
It reminded me of the game v Wales when (spit) Matt Williams was in charge, when Wales were out of sight at HT, and the players looked like they threw away the coach’s game plan at HT in an attempt to salvage some self-respect.

Every coach loses that dressing room.

The reality is a lot of highly paid international players can't be bothered and the squad is filled with extremely mediocre break glass in case of emergency/sorry we took your EQ/IQ credit so here's a place to earn some money. Pathetic!

[Slick]

48-0 at HT

Seriously?

Yep. And it was every bit as one-sided as that. Lions were running in tries from everywhere, looking unplayable. Edinburgh looking lethargic, putting up token resistance only. Falling off tackles, turned over easily (FFS, Schoeman was turned over physically at one ruck), losing their own lineout throws. Utterly dreadful.

I couldn’t watch after HT. They did score three tries in the second half, but as I said earlier, they also let one in when they had 15 v 14. They also couldn’t score a 4th, as usual, though to extract a TBP from a performance as bad as that would have had an element of black comedy about it.

Thanks. And deary me

[Tichtheid]

Am I right in thinking that Tom Jordan becomes SQ very soon?
I see he started playing for Ayr in 2019.

Right now there is a big gap between him in second spot and the others vying for the jersey

Which jersey? 10 or 12?

I see him as an excellent bench option behind Finn, but able to make his mark at 12 - the Edinburgh guys are miles behind Jordan and to be honest I think he's currently in better form than Hastings.

Edinburgh players should be nowhere near the Scotland set up right now but I know that's impossible and there's no way I'm saying Glasgow are capable of taking on Australia, South Africa etc. However, even given the toughness of the opening schedule, the Edinburgh players should be in the position that they have to displace someone to get in the squad, ie earn it. I haven't seen today's match but I've seen enough of those matches over the years with Edinburgh to know what happened.

Bhatti, Mathews, Fagerson*, Cummings, Gray, Fagerson, Christie, Dempsey, Price, Finn, Rowe, Tuipulotu, Jones, Steyn, Kinghorn

That is currently the starting XV in terms of form and confidence.

*Even not playing, Zander is miles ahead of everyone else in his position.

[Dogbert]

Am I right in thinking that Tom Jordan becomes SQ very soon?
I see he started playing for Ayr in 2019.

Right now there is a big gap between him in second spot and the others vying for the jersey

Which jersey? 10 or 12?

I see him as an excellent bench option behind Finn, but able to make his mark at 12 - the Edinburgh guys are miles behind Jordan and to be honest I think he's currently in better form than Hastings.

Edinburgh players should be nowhere near the Scotland set up right now but I know that's impossible and there's no way I'm saying Glasgow are capable of taking on Australia, South Africa etc. However, even given the toughness of the opening schedule, the Edinburgh players should be in the position that they have to displace someone to get in the squad, ie earn it. I haven't seen today's match but I've seen enough of those matches over the years with Edinburgh to know what happened.

Bhatti, Mathews, Fagerson*, Cummings, Gray, Fagerson, Christie, Dempsey, Price, Finn, Rowe, Tuipulotu, Jones, Steyn, Kinghorn

That is currently the starting XV in terms of form and confidence.

*Even not playing, Zander is miles ahead of everyone else in his position.

Nowhere on God's green earth should Price be near that team.

White , then Horne, then Dobie

[Tichtheid]

Which jersey? 10 or 12?

I see him as an excellent bench option behind Finn, but able to make his mark at 12 - the Edinburgh guys are miles behind Jordan and to be honest I think he's currently in better form than Hastings.

Edinburgh players should be nowhere near the Scotland set up right now but I know that's impossible and there's no way I'm saying Glasgow are capable of taking on Australia, South Africa etc. However, even given the toughness of the opening schedule, the Edinburgh players should be in the position that they have to displace someone to get in the squad, ie earn it. I haven't seen today's match but I've seen enough of those matches over the years with Edinburgh to know what happened.

Bhatti, Mathews, Fagerson*, Cummings, Gray, Fagerson, Christie, Dempsey, Price, Finn, Rowe, Tuipulotu, Jones, Steyn, Kinghorn

That is currently the starting XV in terms of form and confidence.

*Even not playing, Zander is miles ahead of everyone else in his position.

Nowhere on God's green earth should Price be near that team.

White , then Horne, then Dobie

That was a total mistake on my part - I have no idea where Price's name came from.

I fully agree, White, then Horne/Dobie

[Yr Alban]

I think the only player who turned out for Embra today who is likely to be starting for Scotland is Schoeman. Not because he played well, but because he is the best player we have available in his position. That would normally
apply to Darcy too, but after today I can’t justify it. Duhan didn’t play and probably starts because he’s Duhan. That might be it.

[Slick]

Am I right in thinking that Tom Jordan becomes SQ very soon?
I see he started playing for Ayr in 2019.

Right now there is a big gap between him in second spot and the others vying for the jersey

Which jersey? 10 or 12?

I see him as an excellent bench option behind Finn, but able to make his mark at 12 - the Edinburgh guys are miles behind Jordan and to be honest I think he's currently in better form than Hastings.

Edinburgh players should be nowhere near the Scotland set up right now but I know that's impossible and there's no way I'm saying Glasgow are capable of taking on Australia, South Africa etc. However, even given the toughness of the opening schedule, the Edinburgh players should be in the position that they have to displace someone to get in the squad, ie earn it. I haven't seen today's match but I've seen enough of those matches over the years with Edinburgh to know what happened.

Bhatti, Mathews, Fagerson*, Cummings, Gray, Fagerson, Christie, Dempsey, Price, Finn, Rowe, Tuipulotu, Jones, Steyn, Kinghorn

That is currently the starting XV in terms of form and confidence.

*Even not playing, Zander is miles ahead of everyone else in his position.

Yeah, Jordan has improved every season and right now is looking very good. I do have a feeling that the next step up might be too far but I think he’s earned the right to have a chance during the Autumn

[Tichtheid]

Well, I watched the second half of the Lions mauling of Edinburgh and it wasn't quite as bad as I'd feared, albeit the game was gone by 40 minutes.

Positives - the scrum went well, the comms said there had barely been any scrums in the first half.
Paddy Harrison looks the part, Cherry should be put out to pasture
As should Watson, Muncaster was decent when he came on, the brief piece of play I saw from the first half showed Mish busting a gut in losing ground to a Lions attack - thanks Mish, you really were great, but it's time to move on now.
I'd be tempted to give Dodd a run, he's looked strong and to be honest, stuff reputations, Ritchie has to earn his place in the Edinburgh team before looking further. Failing that I'd look to play Boyle or Freddy Douglas and McConnell.
We don't have many other options outside of the pack, but Boff and Paterson can't come back soon enough

[OomStruisbaai]

Embra have an easy game at home next week.

[Slick]

Well, I watched the second half of the Lions mauling of Edinburgh and it wasn't quite as bad as I'd feared, albeit the game was gone by 40 minutes.

Positives - the scrum went well, the comms said there had barely been any scrums in the first half.
Paddy Harrison looks the part, Cherry should be put out to pasture
As should Watson, Muncaster was decent when he came on, the brief piece of play I saw from the first half showed Mish busting a gut in losing ground to a Lions attack - thanks Mish, you really were great, but it's time to move on now.
I'd be tempted to give Dodd a run, he's looked strong and to be honest, stuff reputations, Ritchie has to earn his place in the Edinburgh team before looking further. Failing that I'd look to play Boyle or Freddy Douglas and McConnell.
We don't have many other options outside of the pack, but Boff and Paterson can't come back soon enough

Was going to ask what has happened to Paterson, been injured I presume?

[Tichtheid]

Well, I watched the second half of the Lions mauling of Edinburgh and it wasn't quite as bad as I'd feared, albeit the game was gone by 40 minutes.

Positives - the scrum went well, the comms said there had barely been any scrums in the first half.
Paddy Harrison looks the part, Cherry should be put out to pasture
As should Watson, Muncaster was decent when he came on, the brief piece of play I saw from the first half showed Mish busting a gut in losing ground to a Lions attack - thanks Mish, you really were great, but it's time to move on now.
I'd be tempted to give Dodd a run, he's looked strong and to be honest, stuff reputations, Ritchie has to earn his place in the Edinburgh team before looking further. Failing that I'd look to play Boyle or Freddy Douglas and McConnell.
We don't have many other options outside of the pack, but Boff and Paterson can't come back soon enough

Was going to ask what has happened to Paterson, been injured I presume?

He got a cut on his foot which got infected, I think. He’s due back soon, if not next weekend

[Slick]

Well, I watched the second half of the Lions mauling of Edinburgh and it wasn't quite as bad as I'd feared, albeit the game was gone by 40 minutes.

Positives - the scrum went well, the comms said there had barely been any scrums in the first half.
Paddy Harrison looks the part, Cherry should be put out to pasture
As should Watson, Muncaster was decent when he came on, the brief piece of play I saw from the first half showed Mish busting a gut in losing ground to a Lions attack - thanks Mish, you really were great, but it's time to move on now.
I'd be tempted to give Dodd a run, he's looked strong and to be honest, stuff reputations, Ritchie has to earn his place in the Edinburgh team before looking further. Failing that I'd look to play Boyle or Freddy Douglas and McConnell.
We don't have many other options outside of the pack, but Boff and Paterson can't come back soon enough

Was going to ask what has happened to Paterson, been injured I presume?

He got a cut on his foot which got infected, I think. He’s due back soon, if not next weekend

Thank you, looking forward to his return

[Jock42]

Watched the Sale highlights earlier. Warr looked to have a decent game and scored a textbook SH try. Reed also looked lively with a couple of assists and a hell of a chase and try saving tackle

[TheNatalShark]

Hard to shake the feeling that something is very, very wrong behind the scenes. Has the coach lost the dressing room?

It’s difficult not to think that might be part of the problem.
It reminded me of the game v Wales when (spit) Matt Williams was in charge, when Wales were out of sight at HT, and the players looked like they threw away the coach’s game plan at HT in an attempt to salvage some self-respect.

Every coach loses that dressing room.

The reality is a lot of highly paid international players can't be bothered and the squad is filled with extremely mediocre break glass in case of emergency/sorry we took your EQ/IQ credit so here's a place to earn some money. Pathetic!

Having not watched the game.

A reminder that Everitt has form for this pattern of losses then thumpings. Sharks getting pumped at home by awful Blues team 0-35.

I don't think it gets better from here, and am hesitant to blame players.

[I like neeps]

It’s difficult not to think that might be part of the problem.
It reminded me of the game v Wales when (spit) Matt Williams was in charge, when Wales were out of sight at HT, and the players looked like they threw away the coach’s game plan at HT in an attempt to salvage some self-respect.

Every coach loses that dressing room.

The reality is a lot of highly paid international players can't be bothered and the squad is filled with extremely mediocre break glass in case of emergency/sorry we took your EQ/IQ credit so here's a place to earn some money. Pathetic!

Having not watched the game.

A reminder that Everitt has form for this pattern of losses then thumpings. Sharks getting pumped at home by awful Blues team 0-35.

I don't think it gets better from here, and am hesitant to blame players.

Have you watched the last 10 years of Edinburgh rugby? The players are a problem. Everitt is obviously a problem as well, but the players are like this every coach they have.

[Tichtheid]

It’s a conundrum, the ones who play for Scotland do well in that environment, but a full international pack playing for Edinburgh look like they don’t know what they are doing.
The backs from 10 to 13 haven’t been good enough at Edinburgh for years, Currie and Tuipulotu get a pass at the moment

There has to be a cultural change, you get dropped if you don’t perform, no matter who you are, stuff reputations

[robmatic]

It’s a conundrum, the ones who play for Scotland do well in that environment, but a full international pack playing for Edinburgh look like they don’t know what they are doing.
The backs from 10 to 13 haven’t been good enough at Edinburgh for years, Currie and Tuipulotu get a pass at the moment

There has to be a cultural change, you get dropped if you don’t perform, no matter who you are, stuff reputations

A full international pack with two international captains and a B&I Lion in it. There should be enough leadership and experience in that group to deliver a decent level of performance regardless of the coaches.

[Slick]

I have to say that I'm getting severe "The relative success and fun of the last few years for the Scotland team are coming to an end", vibe.

[Biffer]

I have to say that I'm getting severe "The relative success and fun of the last few years for the Scotland team are coming to an end", vibe.

Nah, I don't think that's the case. You're only looking at Edinburgh, not at Glasgow.

[clydecloggie]

I have to say that I'm getting severe "The relative success and fun of the last few years for the Scotland team are coming to an end", vibe.

Nah, I don't think that's the case. You're only looking at Edinburgh, not at Glasgow.

"Relative success" for the Scotland team meaning they occasionally win a game they were expected to lose? And yes, there have been some outstanding performances, primarily away in England and France, but apart from one year they've never been close to winning a 6N and the last two RWCs have been utter gash.

I think they will happily continue doing that for the foreseeable.

Luckily there's Glasgow.

[Biffer]

I have to say that I'm getting severe "The relative success and fun of the last few years for the Scotland team are coming to an end", vibe.

Nah, I don't think that's the case. You're only looking at Edinburgh, not at Glasgow.

"Relative success" for the Scotland team meaning they occasionally win a game they were expected to lose? And yes, there have been some outstanding performances, primarily away in England and France, but apart from one year they've never been close to winning a 6N and the last two RWCs have been utter gash.

I think they will happily continue doing that for the foreseeable.

Luckily there's Glasgow.

Exactly. Not as if we've been scaring the shite out of Ireland.

[Slick]

I have to say that I'm getting severe "The relative success and fun of the last few years for the Scotland team are coming to an end", vibe.

Nah, I don't think that's the case. You're only looking at Edinburgh, not at Glasgow.

"Relative success" for the Scotland team meaning they occasionally win a game they were expected to lose? And yes, there have been some outstanding performances, primarily away in England and France, but apart from one year they've never been close to winning a 6N and the last two RWCs have been utter gash.

I think they will happily continue doing that for the foreseeable.

Luckily there's Glasgow.

Well, we've won 3 Championships in about 150 years and had long periods of being utterly hopeless and devoid of any attacking intent and only Ireland have won more Wooden Spoons, so I think it has been a relatively fun and successful few years.

I just have a feeling we are falling off a cliff soon with not a lot coming through.

[I like neeps]

It’s a conundrum, the ones who play for Scotland do well in that environment, but a full international pack playing for Edinburgh look like they don’t know what they are doing.
The backs from 10 to 13 haven’t been good enough at Edinburgh for years, Currie and Tuipulotu get a pass at the moment

There has to be a cultural change, you get dropped if you don’t perform, no matter who you are, stuff reputations

A full international pack with two international captains and a B&I Lion in it. There should be enough leadership and experience in that group to deliver a decent level of performance regardless of the coaches.

Edinburgh players should be judged on their performances for Edinburgh and not for Scotland.

[SaintK]

It’s a conundrum, the ones who play for Scotland do well in that environment, but a full international pack playing for Edinburgh look like they don’t know what they are doing.
The backs from 10 to 13 haven’t been good enough at Edinburgh for years, Currie and Tuipulotu get a pass at the moment

There has to be a cultural change, you get dropped if you don’t perform, no matter who you are, stuff reputations

A full international pack with two international captains and a B&I Lion in it. There should be enough leadership and experience in that group to deliver a decent level of performance regardless of the coaches.

Edinburgh players should be judged on their performances for Edinburgh and not for Scotland.

Doesn't form for your club get you selected or dropped from your national team?

[robmatic]

A full international pack with two international captains and a B&I Lion in it. There should be enough leadership and experience in that group to deliver a decent level of performance regardless of the coaches.

Edinburgh players should be judged on their performances for Edinburgh and not for Scotland.

Doesn't form for your club get you selected or dropped from your national team?

Ha!

Remember that there are only 2 professional teams in Scotland. If you are a Scottish-qualified professional player, you are likely to be in or around the national squad and you might not have competition in your position that could really step up to international level.

[SaintK]

Edinburgh players should be judged on their performances for Edinburgh and not for Scotland.

Doesn't form for your club get you selected or dropped from your national team?

Ha!

Remember that there are only 2 professional teams in Scotland. If you are a Scottish-qualified professional player, you are likely to be in or around the national squad and you might not have competition in your position that could really step up to international level.

Fair call

[topofthemoon]

Someone named Kyle has scored a try in each of Glasgow's last 9 URC regular season fixtures.

Edinburgh’s backs have scored no tries in their last six away fixtures.

More stats in the URC week 3 round-up:

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... -hammered/

[Big D]

I have to say that I'm getting severe "The relative success and fun of the last few years for the Scotland team are coming to an end", vibe.

Nah, I don't think that's the case. You're only looking at Edinburgh, not at Glasgow.

"Relative success" for the Scotland team meaning they occasionally win a game they were expected to lose? And yes, there have been some outstanding performances, primarily away in England and France, but apart from one year they've never been close to winning a 6N and the last two RWCs have been utter gash.

I think they will happily continue doing that for the foreseeable.

Luckily there's Glasgow.

Even then we've relied on one or two players doing something spectacular for some of those wins.

For some of the stick that Duhan gets, sme merited some not, without him scoring worldies our recent record looks worse too.

[Big D]

Glasgow v Edinburgh to be at Hampden. It's a crap stadium for football and can't see it being better for rugby.

[Biffer]

Glasgow v Edinburgh to be at Hampden. It's a crap stadium for football and can't see it being better for rugby.

Yeah, but I might give it a go for a day out

[robmatic]

Glasgow v Edinburgh to be at Hampden. It's a crap stadium for football and can't see it being better for rugby.

Well, you won't be any closer to the pitch so probably not.

Probably the worst big stadium I have been to.

[KingBlairhorn]

Glasgow v Edinburgh to be at Hampden. It's a crap stadium for football and can't see it being better for rugby.

Well, you won't be any closer to the pitch so probably not.

Probably the worst big stadium I have been to.

Yeah, Hampden is pretty poor. The SFA really missed a trick when they did their half-assed upgrades in the late 90s - the Welsh got the Millenium stadium at roughly the same time. They really should have dropped the whole thing and started again, but the anachronistic ownership structure not being sorted until the last few years hindered that. Money isn't cheap any more and constructions costs are at least 2x what they were due to Brexit and other supply chain issues, so any kind of new stadium is a pipe dream for the foreseeable. Much the same as Murrayfield to be honest.

However, if they sell out Hampden they will gross over a million pounds. If they sell out Scotstoun they will gross less than £200k. The SRU are not in a position to turn down that kind of revenue. If it's even halfway successful they'll do it every year.

[Jock42]

Glasgow v Edinburgh to be at Hampden. It's a crap stadium for football and can't see it being better for rugby.

Well, you won't be any closer to the pitch so probably not.

Probably the worst big stadium I have been to.

Yeah, Hampden is pretty poor. The SFA really missed a trick when they did their half-assed upgrades in the late 90s - the Welsh got the Millenium stadium at roughly the same time. They really should have dropped the whole thing and started again, but the anachronistic ownership structure not being sorted until the last few years hindered that. Money isn't cheap any more and constructions costs are at least 2x what they were due to Brexit and other supply chain issues, so any kind of new stadium is a pipe dream for the foreseeable. Much the same as Murrayfield to be honest.

However, if they sell out Hampden they will gross over a million pounds. If they sell out Scotstoun they will gross less than £200k. The SRU are not in a position to turn down that kind of revenue. If it's even halfway successful they'll do it every year.

I assume they'd be expecting 30k, give or take, which would be worth it. It's right that they don't use Murrayfield it's just a shame the 3 stadiums in Glasgow are shite.

[Big D]

Well, you won't be any closer to the pitch so probably not.

Probably the worst big stadium I have been to.

Yeah, Hampden is pretty poor. The SFA really missed a trick when they did their half-assed upgrades in the late 90s - the Welsh got the Millenium stadium at roughly the same time. They really should have dropped the whole thing and started again, but the anachronistic ownership structure not being sorted until the last few years hindered that. Money isn't cheap any more and constructions costs are at least 2x what they were due to Brexit and other supply chain issues, so any kind of new stadium is a pipe dream for the foreseeable. Much the same as Murrayfield to be honest.

However, if they sell out Hampden they will gross over a million pounds. If they sell out Scotstoun they will gross less than £200k. The SRU are not in a position to turn down that kind of revenue. If it's even halfway successful they'll do it every year.

I assume they'd be expecting 30k, give or take, which would be worth it. It's right that they don't use Murrayfield it's just a shame the 3 stadiums in Glasgow are shite.

Either of the other two big stadiums would be fine, although one pitch isn't big enough.

30k in Hampden will look pretty bad with 20k empty seats. Moving it to a Sunday will hurt crowds too as transport to/from the stadium isn't great and will be worse on a Sunday.

Wonder how much the SFA are rinsing them for too.

[Dogbert]

Its is of course entirely possible that if Glasgow had the 3 fixtures Edinburgh have had, it would be Glasgow sitting with 3 points and 2nd bottom of the league
Saying that it is the manner of the defeat against the Lions which is the most concerning, and very much reminiscent of the capitulation against Benneton last season.

A lot has already been mentioned, but I will add two specific points

Leadership – who are the leaders on the pitch for Edinburgh, who are the players who set the example, who takes the game by the scruff of the neck, I rewatched the Lions game, and I didn’t’ see a single leader out there.
I watch a far bit of Glasgow training, and you can see who the leaders are. Both in the forwards & in the backs, setting the standards , pushing the others , mentoring the younger players
Ventor , Dempsey , Sione , Steyn – none of whom came through the ‘Scottish’ system

PreSeason – Both Glasgow & Edinburgh have come into this season ‘undercooked’ – Glasgow got away with it, partially due to last seasons muscle memory, and their fixture list. Edinburgh were less fortunate. Why ? – well, one reason was a completely pointless Scotland summer tour , where we really learned bugger all , spent a lot of money ( with I suspect very little return in revenue) from what is a cash strapped SRU, we got a lot of air miles of bugger all else. I appreciate that these tours are probably organised years in advance, but we really need to review whether they are worth it.
Most the players had long seasons , Glasgow especially so with the 3 extra games. I think that all the players , but especially the Edinburgh players , would have benefitted with time off to reset, and then had a really decent preseason, to work on their attack & defence.

We need both Glasgow & Edinburgh to be successful , for Scotland to be successful, and success must be more than not getting the wooden spoon in the 6N

[Biffer]

Its is of course entirely possible that if Glasgow had the 3 fixtures Edinburgh have had, it would be Glasgow sitting with 3 points and 2nd bottom of the league
Saying that it is the manner of the defeat against the Lions which is the most concerning, and very much reminiscent of the capitulation against Benneton last season.

A lot has already been mentioned, but I will add two specific points

Leadership – who are the leaders on the pitch for Edinburgh, who are the players who set the example, who takes the game by the scruff of the neck, I rewatched the Lions game, and I didn’t’ see a single leader out there.
I watch a far bit of Glasgow training, and you can see who the leaders are. Both in the forwards & in the backs, setting the standards , pushing the others , mentoring the younger players
Ventor , Dempsey , Sione , Steyn – none of whom came through the ‘Scottish’ system

PreSeason – Both Glasgow & Edinburgh have come into this season ‘undercooked’ – Glasgow got away with it, partially due to last seasons muscle memory, and their fixture list. Edinburgh were less fortunate. Why ? – well, one reason was a completely pointless Scotland summer tour , where we really learned bugger all , spent a lot of money ( with I suspect very little return in revenue) from what is a cash strapped SRU, we got a lot of air miles of bugger all else. I appreciate that these tours are probably organised years in advance, but we really need to review whether they are worth it.
Most the players had long seasons , Glasgow especially so with the 3 extra games. I think that all the players , but especially the Edinburgh players , would have benefitted with time off to reset, and then had a really decent preseason, to work on their attack & defence.

We need both Glasgow & Edinburgh to be successful , for Scotland to be successful, and success must be more than not getting the wooden spoon in the 6N

We won't have tours in future, we'll have the superduper whizzy Nations League instead. Yippee.

[Tichtheid]

Its is of course entirely possible that if Glasgow had the 3 fixtures Edinburgh have had, it would be Glasgow sitting with 3 points and 2nd bottom of the league
Saying that it is the manner of the defeat against the Lions which is the most concerning, and very much reminiscent of the capitulation against Benneton last season.

Glasgow shipped 36 points and five second half tries to a 14 players Lions team last season in a 44 - 21 defeat, we've seen similar situations against Leinster but beating the Bulls away in last season's final has to go down as one of the great results, despite losing to them in the regular season.

It's been a very tough draw, this weekend's match against the Stormers will be more of a glimpse as to where Edinburgh are, however I'd also add that Glasgow have beaten Leinster when they've been vulnerable and the Weedge would not have lost the game that Edinburgh did three weeks ago, it's pure conjecture of course, but we've all seen Glasgow turn over Leinster at Scotstoun and they would've surely beaten the Bulls performance from two weeks ago?

A lot has already been mentioned, but I will add two specific points

Leadership – who are the leaders on the pitch for Edinburgh, who are the players who set the example, who takes the game by the scruff of the neck, I rewatched the Lions game, and I didn’t’ see a single leader out there.
I watch a far bit of Glasgow training, and you can see who the leaders are. Both in the forwards & in the backs, setting the standards , pushing the others , mentoring the younger players
Ventor , Dempsey , Sione , Steyn – none of whom came through the ‘Scottish’ system

PreSeason – Both Glasgow & Edinburgh have come into this season ‘undercooked’ – Glasgow got away with it, partially due to last seasons muscle memory, and their fixture list. Edinburgh were less fortunate. Why ? – well, one reason was a completely pointless Scotland summer tour , where we really learned bugger all , spent a lot of money ( with I suspect very little return in revenue) from what is a cash strapped SRU, we got a lot of air miles of bugger all else. I appreciate that these tours are probably organised years in advance, but we really need to review whether they are worth it.
Most the players had long seasons , Glasgow especially so with the 3 extra games. I think that all the players , but especially the Edinburgh players , would have benefitted with time off to reset, and then had a really decent preseason, to work on their attack & defence.

We need both Glasgow & Edinburgh to be successful , for Scotland to be successful, and success must be more than not getting the wooden spoon in the 6N

We've been bemoaning the lack of leadership at Edinburgh for many years, I remember the year after Embra got to the semi final of the Heineken Cup watching them getting absolutely demolished at home to Saracens, it's same issue year after year, the soft underbelly. I didn't mind so much when it was Kinghorn at ten and playing exciting rugby, but watching the same exciting players in a team playing percentage rugby and getting whupped is turning me off.

[Biffer]

Worth noting that in moving the 1872 game to Hampden, Glasgow / the SRU have also changed the day to the Sunday.

[weegie01]

Worth noting that in moving the 1872 game to Hampden, Glasgow / the SRU have also changed the day to the Sunday.

I expect this to have a knock on effect to the Murrayfield leg. Many, many Weegies came through as they could get tickets for Murrayfield, but not Scotstoun. I'd assume they will now be soaked up by the Hampden game so whilst the total of specators over both legs should go up, it may not go up that much.

On other hand a few east coasters may go through.