The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Tichtheid]

Tom Jordan having a fantastic debut

Yup, I was very excited about watching him for Scotland

[Hal Jordan]

Fiji running out of puff and bench talent.

[KingBlairhorn]

We're playing a mid table super rugby side and relying on them having 14 to do any damage.

We got a bit cocky I reckon and then got rattled

I’m not able to watch right now as in the car. Beattie and English slating us on the BBC. Beattie in particular saying that Ireland or the ABs would have made this a 60-point game by now. Well, maybe, but to be fair, the Fijian resurgence has also been with 15 v 14.

English and Beattie are full of shit. Very very few internationals are 60 point games and the overwhelming majority of those that are become 60 point games in the last quarter.

It’s not been great but it’s never looked like anything but a win broadly in second gear.

[KingBlairhorn]

Tom Jordan having a fantastic debut

Yup, I was very excited about watching him for Scotland

He’s been good. Just playing the same way he does for Glasgow which is ideal, really.

[KingBlairhorn]

Is there any nation but Scotland that can make a 40 point win look shit?

[Tichtheid]

Is there any nation but Scotland that can make a 40 point win look shit?

That's a bit unfair on Fiji, they are no mugs, even without the big names

[KingBlairhorn]

Is there any nation but Scotland that can make a 40 point win look shit?

That's a bit unfair on Fiji, they are no mugs, even without the big names

Not sure I follow? We won that game by a massive margin, had 3? tries chopped off and still it feels like we were a bit shit. That’s not a comment on Fiji IMO.

[Tichtheid]

Is there any nation but Scotland that can make a 40 point win look shit?

That's a bit unfair on Fiji, they are no mugs, even without the big names

Not sure I follow? We won that game by a massive margin, had 3? tries chopped off and still it feels like we were a bit shit. That’s not a comment on Fiji IMO.

It wasn't one way due to the quality of the opposition. They forced the errors.

[KingBlairhorn]

That's a bit unfair on Fiji, they are no mugs, even without the big names

Not sure I follow? We won that game by a massive margin, had 3? tries chopped off and still it feels like we were a bit shit. That’s not a comment on Fiji IMO.

It wasn't one way due to the quality of the opposition. They forced the errors.

I’m still not with you. It’s a comment about the winning margin not reflecting the game. If anything it’s a compliment for Fiji. I think you’re seeing something that isn’t there.

[Tichtheid]

Not sure I follow? We won that game by a massive margin, had 3? tries chopped off and still it feels like we were a bit shit. That’s not a comment on Fiji IMO.

It wasn't one way due to the quality of the opposition. They forced the errors.

I’m still not with you. It’s a comment about the winning margin not reflecting the game. If anything it’s a compliment for Fiji. I think you’re seeing something that isn’t there.

It's just that I don't agree with the statement that Scotland made a 40 point winning margin look "shit" or that "we were a bit shit".

We were inaccurate at times and we didn't capitalise on early dominance. Fiji worked their way into the match on merit, but we were four tries and 28 points up by that point.
The difference always shows towards the end of any match and so it was today where we ran away from them.

It wasn't what I'd describe as a great Scottish performance, but neither would I call it "shit".

[Big D]

Is what it is. A fairly patchy performance with some good and some poor bits.

We should be putting 55/60+ on that team. It was a Fiji Drua team that regularly shipped 30+ points away from home in super rugby this season.

[Slick]

Some positives

Jordan was really great. I’ve said a few times I wasn’t convinced he would step up, and it was tier 2 opposition, but enough there for me to change my mind and take that one on the chin.

Darcy being back was nice.

Huw Jones. I just love him, so classy. In my top 3 players of the last decade. Massively underrated by opposition teams and supporters.

[Tichtheid]

Is what it is. A fairly patchy performance with some good and some poor bits.

We should be putting 55/60+ on that team. It was a Fiji Drua team that regularly shipped 30+ points away from home in super rugby this season.

I was pleased to see Rae go well, he's been Edinburgh's best tighthead this season and perhaps he's finally starting to fulfil the early promise.

[Tichtheid]

I thought each row of the pack went well without being an outstanding unit, if that's possible.

Dempsey made some very good carries and he and Fagerson were good lineout operators.

[Yr Alban]

It wasn't one way due to the quality of the opposition. They forced the errors.

I’m still not with you. It’s a comment about the winning margin not reflecting the game. If anything it’s a compliment for Fiji. I think you’re seeing something that isn’t there.

It's just that I don't agree with the statement that Scotland made a 40 point winning margin look "shit" or that "we were a bit shit".

We were inaccurate at times and we didn't capitalise on early dominance. Fiji worked their way into the match on merit, but we were four tries and 28 points up by that point.
The difference always shows towards the end of any match and so it was today where we ran away from them.

It wasn't what I'd describe as a great Scottish performance, but neither would I call it "shit".

In a sense you can’t win with games like this. A thumping win is the minimum expectation. Scotland delivered the goods, after a poor spell, which was triggered by Ashman being in the bin, and are still getting criticism. Anything less than a thumping win and the knives would be out.

It’s certainly true that we’ll need a better performance to get close to SA, but that was always going to be the case.

I gather Ashman should probably have been off for a head-on-head and somehow got away with it. I would drop him from the Test 23 for that. He’s a big talent, but as has been said, we can’t afford to carry players who leak penalties and cards. Zander seems to have sorted out that side of his game now. We had to put up with his poor discipline due to lack of cover in his position, but we have several options for hooker. Tell him he can come back in once he has cleaned up his act.

[Biffer]

Van der Merwe pulled his finger out when Darcy caught him up in total tries.

First twenty minutes we looked good, second we seemed to take our foot off the gas and then the stupid set in.

Second half was broadly decent if unexciting.

But overall, look at the score, a good win,a lot of players with valuable game time.

[Tichtheid]

Van der Merwe pulled his finger out when Darcy caught him up in total tries.

First twenty minutes we looked good, second we seemed to take our foot off the gas and then the stupid set in.

Second half was broadly decent if unexciting.

But overall, look at the score, a good win,a lot of players with valuable game time.

The Wiki page has already been updated

Duhan 29
Darcy 28
Hogg 27
Smith and Stanger on 24

[Big D]

I’m still not with you. It’s a comment about the winning margin not reflecting the game. If anything it’s a compliment for Fiji. I think you’re seeing something that isn’t there.

It's just that I don't agree with the statement that Scotland made a 40 point winning margin look "shit" or that "we were a bit shit".

We were inaccurate at times and we didn't capitalise on early dominance. Fiji worked their way into the match on merit, but we were four tries and 28 points up by that point.
The difference always shows towards the end of any match and so it was today where we ran away from them.

It wasn't what I'd describe as a great Scottish performance, but neither would I call it "shit".

In a sense you can’t win with games like this. A thumping win is the minimum expectation. Scotland delivered the goods, after a poor spell, which was triggered by Ashman being in the bin, and are still getting criticism. Anything less than a thumping win and the knives would be out.

It’s certainly true that we’ll need a better performance to get close to SA, but that was always going to be the case.

I gather Ashman should probably have been off for a head-on-head and somehow got away with it. I would drop him from the Test 23 for that. He’s a big talent, but as has been said, we can’t afford to carry players who leak penalties and cards. Zander seems to have sorted out that side of his game now. We had to put up with his poor discipline due to lack of cover in his position, but we have several options for hooker. Tell him he can come back in once he has cleaned up his act.

I think it would have been a harsh second yellow to be honest but at the same time he was lucky. His first was a team yellow really. Several players giving away penalties and advantages that never became full pens.

He does leak penalties but I don't think he was particularly bad on that front today.

[Biffer]

Van der Merwe pulled his finger out when Darcy caught him up in total tries.

First twenty minutes we looked good, second we seemed to take our foot off the gas and then the stupid set in.

Second half was broadly decent if unexciting.

But overall, look at the score, a good win,a lot of players with valuable game time.

The Wiki page has already been updated

Duhan 29
Darcy 28
Hogg 27
Smith and Stanger on 24

Is VdM not on 30 now?

[Tichtheid]

Van der Merwe pulled his finger out when Darcy caught him up in total tries.

First twenty minutes we looked good, second we seemed to take our foot off the gas and then the stupid set in.

Second half was broadly decent if unexciting.

But overall, look at the score, a good win,a lot of players with valuable game time.

The Wiki page has already been updated

Duhan 29
Darcy 28
Hogg 27
Smith and Stanger on 24

Is VdM not on 30 now?

He just got the one today, the second was chalked off due to a foot in touch in the build up

[Biffer]

The Wiki page has already been updated

Duhan 29
Darcy 28
Hogg 27
Smith and Stanger on 24

Is VdM not on 30 now?

He just got the one today, the second was chalked off due to a foot in touch in the build up

Wiki has his try against Uruguay as his 29th though.

[Biffer]

Also, in unrelated news, I just found a town in the Pacific Northwest near Seattle which is called Pysht.

Currently trying to book flights.

[charltom]

Really chuffed with how well TJ did today. Hastings was good too.

Dylan Richardson looked better to me than some of the online ratings, and Jamie Dobie showed up well, as did D'Arcy Rae.

Duhan produced some good stuff that I don't always see from him without doing much by way of worldy play, while Kyle Rowe had a poor missed tackle and Darcy G was just wow!

Notwithstanding a weak middle period, that looked a valuable match to me.

I'd have Kinghorn in for Rowe next week, Finn for Adam, White for Price, swap the hookers and probably keep the rest of the bench.

Looking forward to it. Honest!

[Yr Alban]

Is VdM not on 30 now?

He just got the one today, the second was chalked off due to a foot in touch in the build up

Wiki has his try against Uruguay as his 29th though.

I was also confused by this. In days past, Uruguay might not have been a cap international, but I’m pretty certain it would be now. So is he on 29 or 30?

[Yr Alban]

He just got the one today, the second was chalked off due to a foot in touch in the build up

Wiki has his try against Uruguay as his 29th though.

I was also confused by this. In days past, Uruguay might not have been a cap international, but I’m pretty certain it would be now. So is he on 29 or 30?

I figured it out. One of his international tries was for the Lions in the warm-up game v Japan. So it’s 29 for Scotland.

[Biffer]

Wiki has his try against Uruguay as his 29th though.

I was also confused by this. In days past, Uruguay might not have been a cap international, but I’m pretty certain it would be now. So is he on 29 or 30?

I figured it out. One of his international tries was for the Lions in the warm-up game v Japan. So it’s 29 for Scotland.

Good spot.

[weegie01]

Tom Jordan is a close friend of one of my sons and we spoke after the game. He had already said how surprised he was at the gap in intensity between Glasgow and Scotland training. He had been told, but it had not registered until he went through it.

The same with the game. He was blowing after 20 mins, and was just about done by the end. You'd never have guessed from the way he played but obviously we kept an eye on him throughout and you could see he was finding the pace challenging.

His Dad and his partner made it over from New Zealand. I'm delighted that he got ot see his son's debut live, and also for Tom that his Dad was there.

What a journey.

He came to Scotland to play rugby and have some fun. He had no pretensions about doing more than that, but has just kept on getting better over the years as he has worked on his game relentlessly. He has improved the things he was always good at, but especially improved his weaknesses. He may be New Zealand born and bred, the foundations of his game were laid in New Zealand, but he developed into the player he is today in Scotland and I personally don't see how anyone can argue against him playing for Scotland.

[Yr Alban]

Tom Jordan is a close friend of one of my sons and we spoke after the game. He had already said how surprised he was at the gap in intensity between Glasgow and Scotland training. He had been told, but it had not registered until he went through it.

The same with the game. He was blowing after 20 mins, and was just about done by the end. You'd never have guessed from the way he played but obviously we kept an eye on him throughout and you could see he was finding the pace challenging.

His Dad and his partner made it over from New Zealand. I'm delighted that he got ot see his son's debut live, and also for Tom that his Dad was there.

What a journey.

He came to Scotland to play rugby and have some fun. He had no pretensions about doing more than that, but has just kept on getting better over the years as he has worked on his game relentlessly. He has improved the things he was always good at, but especially improved his weaknesses. He may be New Zealand born and bred, the foundations of his game were laid in New Zealand, but he developed into the player he is today in Scotland and I personally don't see how anyone can argue against him playing for Scotland.

Well done to Tom for an excellent debut.

Sadly plenty of people will argue against his playing for us. Not as an individual - they don’t single players out (probably because most of them aren’t the mercenaries they’re made out to be). They just like to to talk about the number of ‘foreign born’ players or call us ‘South Africa B’.

As I’ve said before, Scotland is hampered by rugby being a very middle class pursuit (except in the Borders). Middle class families are economically mobile and will often move to where the work is - which, within the UK, almost always means London and surrounding counties. Which leads to a lot of Scottish rugby-playing families having their kids in England. At best, we then get criticised for fielding them. At worst, they get snapped up by England (as we’ve seen with Fraser Dingwall and Fin Smith).

We haven’t capped a lot of players on residence, and those we have, have generally been like TJ and done a lot of their developing in Scotland. Not a surprise really - no player is coming to Scotland for the cash on offer, so we’re not going to attract any big names.

[dpedin]

Tom Jordan is a close friend of one of my sons and we spoke after the game. He had already said how surprised he was at the gap in intensity between Glasgow and Scotland training. He had been told, but it had not registered until he went through it.

The same with the game. He was blowing after 20 mins, and was just about done by the end. You'd never have guessed from the way he played but obviously we kept an eye on him throughout and you could see he was finding the pace challenging.

His Dad and his partner made it over from New Zealand. I'm delighted that he got ot see his son's debut live, and also for Tom that his Dad was there.

What a journey.

He came to Scotland to play rugby and have some fun. He had no pretensions about doing more than that, but has just kept on getting better over the years as he has worked on his game relentlessly. He has improved the things he was always good at, but especially improved his weaknesses. He may be New Zealand born and bred, the foundations of his game were laid in New Zealand, but he developed into the player he is today in Scotland and I personally don't see how anyone can argue against him playing for Scotland.

Well done to Tom for an excellent debut.

Sadly plenty of people will argue against his playing for us. Not as an individual - they don’t single players out (probably because most of them aren’t the mercenaries they’re made out to be). They just like to to talk about the number of ‘foreign born’ players or call us ‘South Africa B’.

As I’ve said before, Scotland is hampered by rugby being a very middle class pursuit (except in the Borders). Middle class families are economically mobile and will often move to where the work is - which, within the UK, almost always means London and surrounding counties. Which leads to a lot of Scottish rugby-playing families having their kids in England. At best, we then get criticised for fielding them. At worst, they get snapped up by England (as we’ve seen with Fraser Dingwall and Fin Smith).

We haven’t capped a lot of players on residence, and those we have, have generally been like TJ and done a lot of their developing in Scotland. Not a surprise really - no player is coming to Scotland for the cash on offer, so we’re not going to attract any big names.

Great debut from Tom!

If he found the gap in intensity huge between Glasgow and Scotland imagine how much bigger it is between Edinburgh and Scotland training!!! How come the Edinburgh players can step up to international level after such a dismal showing in the league this season and how can Toonie get a Scotland team, who have only been training for a couple of week together, to play so many different backs moves in a couple of weeks when the Edinburgh coaches can't week after week? VdM and Darcy looked completely different players yesterday, involved in most back moves and scoring tries for fun with the team putting them in space to use their strengths. OK I appreciate we had the benefit of playing through Glasgow midfield but surely Edinburgh coaches are sitting there in embarrassment watching how their wingers could win games if used properly? The gap between Edinburgh and Glasgow/Scotland backs play is huge and a real worry going forward.

[I like neeps]

To be fair there weren't many Edinburgh players playing. 7 out of 23, Glasgow had more than double. Edinburgh coaches should be embarrassed by that.

I think people begrudge the policy rather the individuals. It's not really in the spirit of international sport to have project players. Tom Jordan isn't a project player so I doubt anyone who bothers to look into his journey to a Scotland cap would mind too much. A testament to a very good player who has worked hard. Great try saver too - what was Dempsey doing?!

Playing the Fijians without their European based players is a bit of a training run really as you're playing a club side in the Drua. Hastings had a few moments of real class it has to be said. Darcy looked like Darcy again too.

I also really like Max Williamson as a player.

[Yr Alban]

To be fair there weren't many Edinburgh players playing. 7 out of 23, Glasgow had more than double. Edinburgh coaches should be embarrassed by that.

I think people begrudge the policy rather the individuals. It's not really in the spirit of international sport to have project players. Tom Jordan isn't a project player so I doubt anyone who bothers to look into his journey to a Scotland cap would mind too much. A testament to a very good player who has worked hard. Great try saver too - what was Dempsey doing?!

Playing the Fijians without their European based players is a bit of a training run really as you're playing a club side in the Drua. Hastings had a few moments of real class it has to be said. Darcy looked like Darcy again too.

I also really like Max Williamson as a player.

But how many players have been signed as project players, with the obvious intention of qualifying them for Scotland?

Tim Visser, WP Nel, Josh Strauss, Duhan van der Merwe, Pierre Schoeman. I think that may be it. I’m not even sure about Strauss. Yes, we’ve capped a few other players on residency, but I think they were signed as squad players, not as projects.

As I was saying above, we don’t have the resources to attract lots of top players to come and play in Scotland for 5 years.

The vast, vast majority of Scotland players who were ‘foreign born’ have been Scotland qualified since birth by a parent or grandparent. Yes, we’ve made full use of our diaspora, but Scotland has been an exporter of people for centuries, and we’re using the same rules as everyone else.

Edit: I’m not even sure that Duhan qualifies as a real project player. Edinburgh signed him as a gamble, not an investment. He hadn’t made much of an impact at Montpellier and failed his medical due to an injury that made him miss half a season. I’m not sure anyone could have confidently predicted he would make the impact he has.

[I like neeps]

To be fair there weren't many Edinburgh players playing. 7 out of 23, Glasgow had more than double. Edinburgh coaches should be embarrassed by that.

I think people begrudge the policy rather the individuals. It's not really in the spirit of international sport to have project players. Tom Jordan isn't a project player so I doubt anyone who bothers to look into his journey to a Scotland cap would mind too much. A testament to a very good player who has worked hard. Great try saver too - what was Dempsey doing?!

Playing the Fijians without their European based players is a bit of a training run really as you're playing a club side in the Drua. Hastings had a few moments of real class it has to be said. Darcy looked like Darcy again too.

I also really like Max Williamson as a player.

But how many players have been signed as project players, with the obvious intention of qualifying them for Scotland?

Tim Visser, WP Nel, Josh Strauss, Duhan van der Merwe, Pierre Schoeman. I think that may be it. I’m not even sure about Strauss. Yes, we’ve capped a few other players on residency, but I think they were signed as squad players, not as projects.

As I was saying above, we don’t have the resources to attract lots of top players to come and play in Scotland for 5 years.

The vast, vast majority of Scotland players who were ‘foreign born’ have been Scotland qualified since birth by a parent or grandparent. Yes, we’ve made full use of our diaspora, but Scotland has been an exporter of people for centuries, and we’re using the same rules as everyone else.

Edit: I’m not even sure that Duhan qualifies as a real project player. Edinburgh signed him as a gamble, not an investment. He hadn’t made much of an impact at Montpellier and failed his medical due to an injury that made him miss half a season. I’m not sure anyone could have confidently predicted he would make the impact he has.

Oli Kebble, Cornell du Preez, Boan Venter will be capped, Rousseau du Klerk (before he decided to be a pervert), Jordan Venter, I presume Luan de Bruin was signed to qualify too but he was absolutely mince. And the SRU have openly discussed the strategy when signing WP Nel:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/18307303

As said I have no issue with any of the individuals who qualify on residency. The issue is the Scottish rugby union have decided to develop props for the national team they'll sign young South Africans and wait for them to qualify. It's within the rules but, for me, not within the spirit of international sport. If we do cap guys like Duhan signed because Cockers wanted to take the risk, or guys come in quite unfancied - Tom Jordan, Phil Burleigh etc and work really hard and get a cap that's great. But signing players for Scotland and seasoning them at pro sides leaves a bit of a sour taste imo - and I like Schoeman, Nel and company as players and individuals from interviews and such.

[Big D]

To be fair there weren't many Edinburgh players playing. 7 out of 23, Glasgow had more than double. Edinburgh coaches should be embarrassed by that.

I think people begrudge the policy rather the individuals. It's not really in the spirit of international sport to have project players. Tom Jordan isn't a project player so I doubt anyone who bothers to look into his journey to a Scotland cap would mind too much. A testament to a very good player who has worked hard. Great try saver too - what was Dempsey doing?!

Playing the Fijians without their European based players is a bit of a training run really as you're playing a club side in the Drua. Hastings had a few moments of real class it has to be said. Darcy looked like Darcy again too.

I also really like Max Williamson as a player.

But how many players have been signed as project players, with the obvious intention of qualifying them for Scotland?

Tim Visser, WP Nel, Josh Strauss, Duhan van der Merwe, Pierre Schoeman. I think that may be it. I’m not even sure about Strauss. Yes, we’ve capped a few other players on residency, but I think they were signed as squad players, not as projects.

As I was saying above, we don’t have the resources to attract lots of top players to come and play in Scotland for 5 years.

The vast, vast majority of Scotland players who were ‘foreign born’ have been Scotland qualified since birth by a parent or grandparent. Yes, we’ve made full use of our diaspora, but Scotland has been an exporter of people for centuries, and we’re using the same rules as everyone else.

Edit: I’m not even sure that Duhan qualifies as a real project player. Edinburgh signed him as a gamble, not an investment. He hadn’t made much of an impact at Montpellier and failed his medical due to an injury that made him miss half a season. I’m not sure anyone could have confidently predicted he would make the impact he has.

Strausswas a late signing after Masoe changed his mind to be fair. Agree of Duhan. Languishing in Montpellier before Cockerill tool a punt.

Props are the issue really.

[Biffer]

To be fair there weren't many Edinburgh players playing. 7 out of 23, Glasgow had more than double. Edinburgh coaches should be embarrassed by that.

I think people begrudge the policy rather the individuals. It's not really in the spirit of international sport to have project players. Tom Jordan isn't a project player so I doubt anyone who bothers to look into his journey to a Scotland cap would mind too much. A testament to a very good player who has worked hard. Great try saver too - what was Dempsey doing?!

Playing the Fijians without their European based players is a bit of a training run really as you're playing a club side in the Drua. Hastings had a few moments of real class it has to be said. Darcy looked like Darcy again too.

I also really like Max Williamson as a player.

But how many players have been signed as project players, with the obvious intention of qualifying them for Scotland?

Tim Visser, WP Nel, Josh Strauss, Duhan van der Merwe, Pierre Schoeman. I think that may be it. I’m not even sure about Strauss. Yes, we’ve capped a few other players on residency, but I think they were signed as squad players, not as projects.

As I was saying above, we don’t have the resources to attract lots of top players to come and play in Scotland for 5 years.

The vast, vast majority of Scotland players who were ‘foreign born’ have been Scotland qualified since birth by a parent or grandparent. Yes, we’ve made full use of our diaspora, but Scotland has been an exporter of people for centuries, and we’re using the same rules as everyone else.

Edit: I’m not even sure that Duhan qualifies as a real project player. Edinburgh signed him as a gamble, not an investment. He hadn’t made much of an impact at Montpellier and failed his medical due to an injury that made him miss half a season. I’m not sure anyone could have confidently predicted he would make the impact he has.

Strausswas a late signing after Masoe changed his mind to be fair. Agree of Duhan. Languishing in Montpellier before Cockerill tool a punt.

Props are the issue really.

Yep, props are the issue. We don’t have any way to give them 20+ games a season when they’re 18 - 22. The A games we’ve had this year in Edinburgh (did Glasgow do the same?) are welcome, but we need at least as many again in the second half of the season, preferably a few more. We have no games for our pro teams in the autumn international period, and only one during the six nations so the idea that these times provide some kind of opportunity for younger players is just wrong. So for 18-20, got to rely on five u 20 six nations game plus four or five in the U20 World Cup, plus whatever we organise at pro ‘A’ team level (the premiership just isn’t good enough before anyone suggests that). So, I’d say four vs Glasgow, if we can then get four or five v English prem A teams, a couple v Championship teams, one or two each v Welsh / Irish / Italian, even maybe against Georgian club sides? So about a dozen A games with age grade internationals gives 20 or so. For the guys 21\22 you’ve got to think they’ll get bench spots when injuries and rest periods come in for the pro team first and second choices.

[topofthemoon]

To be fair there weren't many Edinburgh players playing. 7 out of 23, Glasgow had more than double. Edinburgh coaches should be embarrassed by that.

I think people begrudge the policy rather the individuals. It's not really in the spirit of international sport to have project players. Tom Jordan isn't a project player so I doubt anyone who bothers to look into his journey to a Scotland cap would mind too much. A testament to a very good player who has worked hard. Great try saver too - what was Dempsey doing?!

Playing the Fijians without their European based players is a bit of a training run really as you're playing a club side in the Drua. Hastings had a few moments of real class it has to be said. Darcy looked like Darcy again too.

I also really like Max Williamson as a player.

But how many players have been signed as project players, with the obvious intention of qualifying them for Scotland?

Tim Visser, WP Nel, Josh Strauss, Duhan van der Merwe, Pierre Schoeman. I think that may be it. I’m not even sure about Strauss. Yes, we’ve capped a few other players on residency, but I think they were signed as squad players, not as projects.

As I was saying above, we don’t have the resources to attract lots of top players to come and play in Scotland for 5 years.

The vast, vast majority of Scotland players who were ‘foreign born’ have been Scotland qualified since birth by a parent or grandparent. Yes, we’ve made full use of our diaspora, but Scotland has been an exporter of people for centuries, and we’re using the same rules as everyone else.

Edit: I’m not even sure that Duhan qualifies as a real project player. Edinburgh signed him as a gamble, not an investment. He hadn’t made much of an impact at Montpellier and failed his medical due to an injury that made him miss half a season. I’m not sure anyone could have confidently predicted he would make the impact he has.

Oli Kebble, Cornell du Preez, Boan Venter will be capped, Rousseau du Klerk (before he decided to be a pervert), Jordan Venter, I presume Luan de Bruin was signed to qualify too but he was absolutely mince. And the SRU have openly discussed the strategy when signing WP Nel:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/18307303

As said I have no issue with any of the individuals who qualify on residency. The issue is the Scottish rugby union have decided to develop props for the national team they'll sign young South Africans and wait for them to qualify. It's within the rules but, for me, not within the spirit of international sport. If we do cap guys like Duhan signed because Cockers wanted to take the risk, or guys come in quite unfancied - Tom Jordan, Phil Burleigh etc and work really hard and get a cap that's great. But signing players for Scotland and seasoning them at pro sides leaves a bit of a sour taste imo - and I like Schoeman, Nel and company as players and individuals from interviews and such.

de Bruin was tied to South Africa by a game for their u20s.

[Yr Alban]

To be fair there weren't many Edinburgh players playing. 7 out of 23, Glasgow had more than double. Edinburgh coaches should be embarrassed by that.

I think people begrudge the policy rather the individuals. It's not really in the spirit of international sport to have project players. Tom Jordan isn't a project player so I doubt anyone who bothers to look into his journey to a Scotland cap would mind too much. A testament to a very good player who has worked hard. Great try saver too - what was Dempsey doing?!

Playing the Fijians without their European based players is a bit of a training run really as you're playing a club side in the Drua. Hastings had a few moments of real class it has to be said. Darcy looked like Darcy again too.

I also really like Max Williamson as a player.

But how many players have been signed as project players, with the obvious intention of qualifying them for Scotland?

Tim Visser, WP Nel, Josh Strauss, Duhan van der Merwe, Pierre Schoeman. I think that may be it. I’m not even sure about Strauss. Yes, we’ve capped a few other players on residency, but I think they were signed as squad players, not as projects.

As I was saying above, we don’t have the resources to attract lots of top players to come and play in Scotland for 5 years.

The vast, vast majority of Scotland players who were ‘foreign born’ have been Scotland qualified since birth by a parent or grandparent. Yes, we’ve made full use of our diaspora, but Scotland has been an exporter of people for centuries, and we’re using the same rules as everyone else.

Edit: I’m not even sure that Duhan qualifies as a real project player. Edinburgh signed him as a gamble, not an investment. He hadn’t made much of an impact at Montpellier and failed his medical due to an injury that made him miss half a season. I’m not sure anyone could have confidently predicted he would make the impact he has.

Oli Kebble, Cornell du Preez, Boan Venter will be capped, Rousseau du Klerk (before he decided to be a pervert), Jordan Venter, I presume Luan de Bruin was signed to qualify too but he was absolutely mince. And the SRU have openly discussed the strategy when signing WP Nel:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/18307303

As said I have no issue with any of the individuals who qualify on residency. The issue is the Scottish rugby union have decided to develop props for the national team they'll sign young South Africans and wait for them to qualify. It's within the rules but, for me, not within the spirit of international sport. If we do cap guys like Duhan signed because Cockers wanted to take the risk, or guys come in quite unfancied - Tom Jordan, Phil Burleigh etc and work really hard and get a cap that's great. But signing players for Scotland and seasoning them at pro sides leaves a bit of a sour taste imo - and I like Schoeman, Nel and company as players and individuals from interviews and such.

I forgot Kebble (what happened to him? He vanished off the radar). Du Preez and Venter I think were signed as NSQ squad filler. Not entirely sure about the others, but my point stands - very few of these guys are actual ‘project’ players, signed with the intention of getting them SQ. Yes, some of the squad players have ended up playing for Scotland, but I think that was a bonus (well, that’s arguable in the case of du Preez)

[GrahamWa]

I forgot Kebble (what happened to him? He vanished off the radar).

Playing for Oyonnaux

[I like neeps]

But how many players have been signed as project players, with the obvious intention of qualifying them for Scotland?

Tim Visser, WP Nel, Josh Strauss, Duhan van der Merwe, Pierre Schoeman. I think that may be it. I’m not even sure about Strauss. Yes, we’ve capped a few other players on residency, but I think they were signed as squad players, not as projects.

As I was saying above, we don’t have the resources to attract lots of top players to come and play in Scotland for 5 years.

The vast, vast majority of Scotland players who were ‘foreign born’ have been Scotland qualified since birth by a parent or grandparent. Yes, we’ve made full use of our diaspora, but Scotland has been an exporter of people for centuries, and we’re using the same rules as everyone else.

Edit: I’m not even sure that Duhan qualifies as a real project player. Edinburgh signed him as a gamble, not an investment. He hadn’t made much of an impact at Montpellier and failed his medical due to an injury that made him miss half a season. I’m not sure anyone could have confidently predicted he would make the impact he has.

Oli Kebble, Cornell du Preez, Boan Venter will be capped, Rousseau du Klerk (before he decided to be a pervert), Jordan Venter, I presume Luan de Bruin was signed to qualify too but he was absolutely mince. And the SRU have openly discussed the strategy when signing WP Nel:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/18307303

As said I have no issue with any of the individuals who qualify on residency. The issue is the Scottish rugby union have decided to develop props for the national team they'll sign young South Africans and wait for them to qualify. It's within the rules but, for me, not within the spirit of international sport. If we do cap guys like Duhan signed because Cockers wanted to take the risk, or guys come in quite unfancied - Tom Jordan, Phil Burleigh etc and work really hard and get a cap that's great. But signing players for Scotland and seasoning them at pro sides leaves a bit of a sour taste imo - and I like Schoeman, Nel and company as players and individuals from interviews and such.

I forgot Kebble (what happened to him? He vanished off the radar). Du Preez and Venter I think were signed as NSQ squad filler. Not entirely sure about the others, but my point stands - very few of these guys are actual ‘project’ players, signed with the intention of getting them SQ. Yes, some of the squad players have ended up playing for Scotland, but I think that was a bonus (well, that’s arguable in the case of du Preez)

No we aren't but we probably are the only tier1 nation at least who have a strategy to prioritise them for a position at international level because we cannot develop our own.

du Preez was signed as a project. From the Eastern Province press release:

Watson said he knew that Du Preez aspired to build towards playing for Scotland, and did not feel that he would be given the opportunity to play for the Springboks, because of the current depth of loose forwards, if he remained in South Africa

Venter was definitely a project, the problem being the rules changed but he's a good player I'll be very surprised if the SRU let him go. I stand corrected on Du Bruin, makes his continued selection even more maddening.

[Yr Alban]

OK, fair enough. I don’t disagree that we are importing props in particular rather than developing them ourselves.

[Tichtheid]

OK, fair enough. I don’t disagree that we are importing props in particular rather than developing them ourselves.

We have been importing props, but it's the most difficult position to develop. France are still playing 34 year old Atonio, an import, despite having 14 professional clubs at the top level and 16 in Pro D2 - that's a pool of probably around 150 tighthead props at least, five per team, and still their best is Atonio.

England are still playing Old King Cole at 37 years of age, despite their professional set up. Malherbe and Koch are mid thirties, despite the ridiculously strong South African school system that leads to hunners of players going overseas to find a playing contract.

Glasgow and Edinburgh have to win. The Super 6 was supposed to help them develop talent at home and that has been binned. The only way forward now is to up the A game system and not pick anyone from outside of the Scottish system - do we have 8 props to cover Glasgow and Edinburgh A games that aren't in the senior squads? I don't think so, but we have to start somewhere.