President Biden and US politics catchall

[assfly]

Don't forget that he wants to give Netanyahu a free hand.

Yep. I'd also put money on China invading Taiwan in the next 2 years.

Yep. This is the one that really scares me. Ukraine will be hurt but still there. That will be a global disaster like nobody has ever seen since the Great Depression.

NATO is fucked too. Time to start funding their own defence budget, which in a way isn't a bad thing. But My worry is that things are only just beginning with Russia.

[Paddington Bear]

Yep. I'd also put money on China invading Taiwan in the next 2 years.

Yep. This is the one that really scares me. Ukraine will be hurt but still there. That will be a global disaster like nobody has ever seen since the Great Depression.

NATO is fucked too. Time to start funding their own defence budget, which in a way isn't a bad thing. But My worry is that things are only just beginning with Russia.

We got an advanced warning about this 8 years ago. We got a proper alarm when Putin invaded Ukraine. And here we all are, unable to defend ourselves

[Oxbow]

Fuck's sake America.

[sturginho]

Fuck's sake America.

Murica!

[SaintK]

God bless America
God help the rest of the world

[Slick]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

[Flockwitt]

Yep. I'd also put money on China invading Taiwan in the next 2 years.

Yep. This is the one that really scares me. Ukraine will be hurt but still there. That will be a global disaster like nobody has ever seen since the Great Depression.

NATO is fucked too. Time to start funding their own defence budget, which in a way isn't a bad thing. But My worry is that things are only just beginning with Russia.

Poland is doing its best to catch up. At least if the US bails there's a chance they could do a North Korea.

[Sandstorm]

That’s twice Yanks have said No! to a female president. Sexiest America.

[laurent]

Yep. This is the one that really scares me. Ukraine will be hurt but still there. That will be a global disaster like nobody has ever seen since the Great Depression.

NATO is fucked too. Time to start funding their own defence budget, which in a way isn't a bad thing. But My worry is that things are only just beginning with Russia.

Poland is doing its best to catch up. At least if the US bails there's a chance they could do a North Korea.

Most countries are however they need to stop buying US made stuff.
When the German launch a European SAM initiative they start with US made components (patriots) when there is a perfectly good european option (Mamba SAMP/T ASTER )

The French/Italian/British(navy only) setup is functional/combat proven.

[Kiwias]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

What is that reality? That America is at heart a deeply racist, misogynist country?

[Sandstorm]

Great. Here comes Musk Time.

[Hal Jordan]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

What liberal media? Trump has been given endless opportunities to say whatever the hell he likes, almost completely unchallenged by the largest part of the media, who, as an example, held Biden to account for his dementia but have been utterly silent on Trump's mental degradation.

He's eyeballs and box office, so they put him front and centre for shareholder value.

[Hal Jordan]

Great. Here comes Musk Time.

More worried about RFK Jnr being let loose on whatever passes for healthcare in the US, to be honest.

[Slick]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

What is that reality? That America is at heart a deeply racist, misogynist country?

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

[Slick]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

What liberal media? Trump has been given endless opportunities to say whatever the hell he likes, almost completely unchallenged by the largest part of the media, who, as an example, held Biden to account for his dementia but have been utterly silent on Trump's mental degradation.

He's eyeballs and box office, so they put him front and centre for shareholder value.

Trump waffles on for 90 minutes and all we ever hear about is a 30 second sound bite about sharks eating boats or something.

[Kiwias]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

What is that reality? That America is at heart a deeply racist, misogynist country?

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I thought that was what you were saying. This time, Kamala spent a lot of time discussing specific policy proposals without talking about Trump for a lot of her campaign while he hardly addressed any actual policies, but it did not seem to make any difference.

[Slick]

What is that reality? That America is at heart a deeply racist, misogynist country?

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I thought that was what you were saying. This time, Kamala spent a lot of time discussing specific policy proposals without talking about Trump for a lot of her campaign while he hardly addressed any actual policies, but it did not seem to make any difference.

Or did he? I don’t know because it was rarely reported, all we got was his latest idiot proclamations. It may well be that he never talked about specific policies but we don’t really know because it was never really discussed in our media, we were too busy finding new ways to justify calling him a facist. But somewhere and somehow he connected with the majority of Americans on the issues they were worried about and it seems a bit much to call them all misogynistic racists

[Kiwias]

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I thought that was what you were saying. This time, Kamala spent a lot of time discussing specific policy proposals without talking about Trump for a lot of her campaign while he hardly addressed any actual policies, but it did not seem to make any difference.

Or did he? I don’t know because it was rarely reported, all we got was his latest idiot proclamations. It may well be that he never talked about specific policies but we don’t really know because it was never really discussed in our media, we were too busy finding new ways to justify calling him a facist. But somewhere and somehow he connected with the majority of Americans on the issues they were worried about and it seems a bit much to call them all misogynistic racists

If he had laid out specific policies, I am convinced that the media would have covered them to some degree.

[Jim Lahey]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

Think this is spot on.

I travel to the US a couple of times a year for work (timber industry) and pretty much everyone I meet (in what you'd imagine is a conservative demographic) loves guns, low taxes and hates the Democrats. Rightly or wrongly, other small-ish business people that I deal with don't like the Dems. Some big corporate types don't like Trump because of his bad PR, but then there is the big oil tycoons/Koch Industries types to balance that.

Add in the young male demographic that loves him, and the catholic voters that hate abortion, then the rednecks etc., then you have a pretty big group of supporters that don't get a lot of publicity.

Whereas all the celeb endorsements from the fluffy Hollywood Liberals/Taylor Swift types create a lot of noise in the media, but in this case hasn't pulled through in the Electoral College.

[geordie_6]

How!? HOW can an apparent majority of Americans be this stupid? Even leaving aside the fact that he is a despicable plum, he doesn't have a viable plan!

They've fucked their country and they frankly deserve it, but in doing so they've also fucked the likes of Ukraine.

The Democratic candidate was a woman, Yanks simply can't vote for a women leader, so instead they have elected a felon who is also a convicted rapist

Well we can look forward to the criminals getting a free pass, a possible depression as Donny throws tariffs left right and center, and Ukraine and a lot of other smaller Countries being well and truly fucked. I'm expecting Vance will roll him in the first year.

And large parts of the globe as he's a climate change denier, so will look to torpedo any global initiatives designed to address that.

[dpedin]

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I thought that was what you were saying. This time, Kamala spent a lot of time discussing specific policy proposals without talking about Trump for a lot of her campaign while he hardly addressed any actual policies, but it did not seem to make any difference.

Or did he? I don’t know because it was rarely reported, all we got was his latest idiot proclamations. It may well be that he never talked about specific policies but we don’t really know because it was never really discussed in our media, we were too busy finding new ways to justify calling him a facist. But somewhere and somehow he connected with the majority of Americans on the issues they were worried about and it seems a bit much to call them all misogynistic racists

He didnt - I listened to a few of his convention speeches/rambles in full, or as long as I could stand, and he spent very little time talking about serious policies apart from the usual deport immigrants, build the wall type of stuff. TBH the media here could have picked out dozens of idiot proclamations all of which demonstrated quite clearly that he is an idiot with strong racist and facsist tendencies. He is what he is and isn't some left wing media monster creation regardless of how much some people like to think!

Having been on many trips to the US including Florida, Carolinas, Nevada, Arizona and California I am not surprised by the vote for Trump. A black woman was never going to attract the vote of a huge % of the red necks, no matter how good/bad she was. Also Americans can easily write off Trump's bad/criminal behavior - it is just one of these things that red blooded men get up to and many see themselves in a similar light, he helps them justify their own behaviors. Many American men still live in a John Wayne/Batman/Clint Eastwood 'make my day' world where tough guys with guns should run the country and Trump has filled this space for them. Lastly we underestimate the power of the media over there and how much it drives many Americans perceptions of the world, they live in a very insulated and limited world where they believe what their biased and partisan media tells them unquestionably. It is the home to Alex Jones, QAnon, etc and these voices have a huge influence over many Americans whether we like it or not.

Looks like he has won the Presidency, the House and Congress and all hell will now explode in the US. God help us all!

[Brazil]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

Think this is spot on.

I travel to the US a couple of times a year for work (timber industry) and pretty much everyone I meet (in what you'd imagine is a conservative demographic) loves guns, low taxes and hates the Democrats. Rightly or wrongly, other small-ish business people that I deal with don't like the Dems. Some big corporate types don't like Trump because of his bad PR, but then there is the big oil tycoons/Koch Industries types to balance that.

Add in the young male demographic that loves him, and the catholic voters that hate abortion, then the rednecks etc., then you have a pretty big group of supporters that don't get a lot of publicity.

Whereas all the celeb endorsements from the fluffy Hollywood Liberals/Taylor Swift types create a lot of noise in the media, but in this case hasn't pulled through in the Electoral College.

The mistake we make in the UK is believing that the Yanks are the same as because they speak the same language. They're very much not and their fetishistion of individual liberty is very alien to all but the most rightwing of Brits and Europeans. Similarly, we tend not to realise that they genuinely believe that their personal prosperity is down to the pioneer spirit and individual endeavour, rather than living in a geographically secure country where you're tripping over resources.

[Kiwias]

He didnt - I listened to a few of his convention speeches/rambles in full, or as long as I could stand, and he spent very little time talking about serious policies apart from the usual deport immigrants, build the wall type of stuff. TBH the media here could have picked out dozens of idiot proclamations all of which demonstrated quite clearly that he is an idiot with strong racist and facsist tendencies. He is what he is and isn't some left wing media monster creation regardless of how much some people like to think!

Having been on many trips to the US including Florida, Carolinas, Nevada, Arizona and California I am not surprised by the vote for Trump. A black woman was never going to attract the vote of a huge % of the red necks, no matter how good/bad she was. Also Americans can easily write off Trump's bad/criminal behavior - it is just one of these things that red blooded men get up to and many see themselves in a similar light, he helps them justify their own behaviors. Many American men still live in a John Wayne/Batman/Clint Eastwood 'make my day' world where tough guys with guns should run the country and Trump has filled this space for them. Lastly we underestimate the power of the media over there and how much it drives many Americans perceptions of the world, they live in a very insulated and limited world where they believe what their biased and partisan media tells them unquestionably. It is the home to Alex Jones, QAnon, etc and these voices have a huge influence over many Americans whether we like it or not.

Looks like he has won the Presidency, the House and Congress and all hell will now explode in the US. God help us all!

I too put myself through the torture of listening to several of his full speeches, usually on Fox (downloaded teh Fox app specifically for that) and as you say, he hardly laid out any specific policies with any real depth.

[Slick]

So their media drives their perceptions but ours doesn’t?

[Hal Jordan]

Looks like he has won the Presidency, the House and Congress and all hell will now explode in the US. God help us all!

And when it all goes tits up the cult will blame anyone and everyone but the Dear Leader, from liberals to the elite to immigrants to traitors within the GOP.

[sockwithaticket]

All this does make me wonder if it’s us being led by the nose by our liberal media, and maybe we are not quite as clever as we think. We’ve stuck our head in the sand and spent 2 years laughing at Trump without perhaps getting the nuance of what he is saying - I’m not saying he is a clever guy, he’s thick as pig shit - and being a bit too self satisfied in our moral superiority whilst being fed what we want to hear.

Surely there are not that many morons in the US. Maybe we’ve massively missed the point and been whipped up by a frenzy of our own making, wrapped up in our own smugness and not seeing the reality

What is that reality? That America is at heart a deeply racist, misogynist country?

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I'm not sure how useful it is to reduce using terms in accordance with their definition to name calling. Objectively, an awful lot of the Republican platform and the what comes out of the leading Republicans is misogynist, racist and homophobic. Perhaps the brutal reality is that a lot of Americans are too.

As much as there has been a rightward surge in much of the developed world, I think its easy to overstate and recently in various European elections we've seen a response to that. While cost of living and the consequence of neo-liberal economics are a problem that's driving so much discontent and the centrists certainly don't seem to have any proper answers, neither do the right. Their main achievement is identifying that enough people are sufficiently politically disengaged and economically illiterate enough to keep voting against their own best interests because the right in general sure as shit isn't interested in restraiing runaway corporatism and vulture capitlasim or easing the burden of the working class. They want to facilitate greater exploitation and greater wealth stratification.

[sockwithaticket]

Lest we forget...



How do you reach people who don't think any of this or the cumulative total of it is a problem? Or who simply don't believe any of it is true if they're even aware in the first place?

[Tichtheid]

Looks like he has won the Presidency, the House and Congress and all hell will now explode in the US. God help us all!

Plus the Supreme Court and many state Supreme Courts

[Slick]

What is that reality? That America is at heart a deeply racist, misogynist country?

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I'm not sure how useful it is to reduce using terms in accordance with their definition to name calling. Objectively, an awful lot of the Republican platform and the what comes out of the leading Republicans is misogynist, racist and homophobic. Perhaps the brutal reality is that a lot of Americans are too.

As much as there has been a rightward surge in much of the developed world, I think its easy to overstate and recently in various European elections we've seen a response to that. While cost of living and the consequence of neo-liberal economics are a problem that's driving so much discontent and the centrists certainly don't seem to have any proper answers, neither do the right. Their main achievement is identifying that enough people are sufficiently politically disengaged and economically illiterate enough to keep voting against their own best interests because the right in general sure as shit isn't interested in restraiing runaway corporatism and vulture capitlasim or easing the burden of the working class. They want to facilitate greater exploitation and greater wealth stratification.

And immigration. Let’s not sidestep that.

[_Os_]

Yep. This is the one that really scares me. Ukraine will be hurt but still there. That will be a global disaster like nobody has ever seen since the Great Depression.

NATO is fucked too. Time to start funding their own defence budget, which in a way isn't a bad thing. But My worry is that things are only just beginning with Russia.

We got an advanced warning about this 8 years ago. We got a proper alarm when Putin invaded Ukraine. And here we all are, unable to defend ourselves

General view which has developed on this misses a lot of the truth. US foreign policy has been built around the demand countries be militarily dominated by the US, including actual US bases on their territory, I'm not talking places like Iraq although they count too, I'm talking UK/Germany/Japan. US foreign policy for 70+ years has been "allow no country to dominate their region, become extremely antagonistic to any which try". Put it this way, they definitely haven't spent the last 70 years demanding Germany/Japan/Turkey/Iran/India/China have their own nuclear deterrent and whilst reducing the number of US overseas bases.

When there's a real chance of actual large wars happening, they moan "all our allies must do it on their own without us". Their entire foreign policy has been any country that does it themselves becomes an enemy, all their allies are weaker than them because that's what they demanded.

[Paddington Bear]

What is that reality? That America is at heart a deeply racist, misogynist country?

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I'm not sure how useful it is to reduce using terms in accordance with their definition to name calling. Objectively, an awful lot of the Republican platform and the what comes out of the leading Republicans is misogynist, racist and homophobic. Perhaps the brutal reality is that a lot of Americans are too.

As much as there has been a rightward surge in much of the developed world, I think its easy to overstate and recently in various European elections we've seen a response to that. While cost of living and the consequence of neo-liberal economics are a problem that's driving so much discontent and the centrists certainly don't seem to have any proper answers, neither do the right. Their main achievement is identifying that enough people are sufficiently politically disengaged and economically illiterate enough to keep voting against their own best interests because the right in general sure as shit isn't interested in restraiing runaway corporatism and vulture capitlasim or easing the burden of the working class. They want to facilitate greater exploitation and greater wealth stratification.

I think this is lazy analysis - Trump has managed to connect with a large and remarkably diverse body of the American people twice now. It was something of a shibboleth among left/liberal economists that inflation wouldn’t matter so long as the economy grew as well, the public clearly disagreed and it was obvious that they would.

Full stop I think the Democrats are lazy - their opponents are idiots and dying off so why engage with them, their diverse coalition will carry them to permanent victory, immigration is an unalloyed good, if you disagree with them societally you are backwards and fighting a culture war. They got a warning on this from 2016 (and Bill Clinton warned them then and was ignored by a remarkably arrogant party hierarchy). Turns out American Hispanics don’t love unrestricted migration, turns out inflation makes people feel poorer, turns out a lot of people (not least the often socially conservative non-white Democratic core voter) don’t agree that women can have penises etc. I don’t think any of this is complicated and Biden understood it well enough to thump Trump.

[robmatic]

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I'm not sure how useful it is to reduce using terms in accordance with their definition to name calling. Objectively, an awful lot of the Republican platform and the what comes out of the leading Republicans is misogynist, racist and homophobic. Perhaps the brutal reality is that a lot of Americans are too.

As much as there has been a rightward surge in much of the developed world, I think its easy to overstate and recently in various European elections we've seen a response to that. While cost of living and the consequence of neo-liberal economics are a problem that's driving so much discontent and the centrists certainly don't seem to have any proper answers, neither do the right. Their main achievement is identifying that enough people are sufficiently politically disengaged and economically illiterate enough to keep voting against their own best interests because the right in general sure as shit isn't interested in restraiing runaway corporatism and vulture capitlasim or easing the burden of the working class. They want to facilitate greater exploitation and greater wealth stratification.

I think this is lazy analysis - Trump has managed to connect with a large and remarkably diverse body of the American people twice now. It was something of a shibboleth among left/liberal economists that inflation wouldn’t matter so long as the economy grew as well, the public clearly disagreed and it was obvious that they would.

Full stop I think the Democrats are lazy - their opponents are idiots and dying off so why engage with them, their diverse coalition will carry them to permanent victory, immigration is an unalloyed good, if you disagree with them societally you are backwards and fighting a culture war. They got a warning on this from 2016 (and Bill Clinton warned them then and was ignored by a remarkably arrogant party hierarchy). Turns out American Hispanics don’t love unrestricted migration, turns out inflation makes people feel poorer, turns out a lot of people (not least the often socially conservative non-white Democratic core voter) don’t agree that women can have penises etc. I don’t think any of this is complicated and Biden understood it well enough to thump Trump.

I know we shouldn't draw too many parallels between the US and the UK but I can imagine what might happen in our next election after the next few year's of economic stagnation and a similar approach to social issues.

[dpedin]

So their media drives their perceptions but ours doesn’t?

I didnt say that. I agree all media is biased to a degree but in the states a large chunk of the tv/internet media is owned and driven by the political leanings and desires of their owners and the bias and misinformation is mind bogglingly awful. Think Daily Mail on steroids or what Musk has done with Twitter! We are beginning to see this spread to the UK with the likes of GBNews and others but they haven't really taken off here despite the efforts of the likes of the Mail/Sun/Telegraph owners and other right dodgy wing funders. Whilst we all have a go at bashing the BBC, and recently it has had its problems under the Tories, it is very valued across the world and seen by many as an honest and trusted reporter of world news. The BBC, ITV and C4 are all seen as trusted and honest reporters of world news and far more so than many, but not all, American news outlets. Also we underestimate the power of the internet media in the US and the impact this has on what can be best described as 'gullible' Americans. The likes of Alex Jones, Josh Rogan, QAnon et al have a huge influence on mainstream Americans of all classes, far more than the internet does here. The point is the media influence in the USA on mainstream Americans and their behaviors is far stronger than in the UK and Europe.

[Paddington Bear]

I'm not sure how useful it is to reduce using terms in accordance with their definition to name calling. Objectively, an awful lot of the Republican platform and the what comes out of the leading Republicans is misogynist, racist and homophobic. Perhaps the brutal reality is that a lot of Americans are too.

As much as there has been a rightward surge in much of the developed world, I think its easy to overstate and recently in various European elections we've seen a response to that. While cost of living and the consequence of neo-liberal economics are a problem that's driving so much discontent and the centrists certainly don't seem to have any proper answers, neither do the right. Their main achievement is identifying that enough people are sufficiently politically disengaged and economically illiterate enough to keep voting against their own best interests because the right in general sure as shit isn't interested in restraiing runaway corporatism and vulture capitlasim or easing the burden of the working class. They want to facilitate greater exploitation and greater wealth stratification.

I think this is lazy analysis - Trump has managed to connect with a large and remarkably diverse body of the American people twice now. It was something of a shibboleth among left/liberal economists that inflation wouldn’t matter so long as the economy grew as well, the public clearly disagreed and it was obvious that they would.

Full stop I think the Democrats are lazy - their opponents are idiots and dying off so why engage with them, their diverse coalition will carry them to permanent victory, immigration is an unalloyed good, if you disagree with them societally you are backwards and fighting a culture war. They got a warning on this from 2016 (and Bill Clinton warned them then and was ignored by a remarkably arrogant party hierarchy). Turns out American Hispanics don’t love unrestricted migration, turns out inflation makes people feel poorer, turns out a lot of people (not least the often socially conservative non-white Democratic core voter) don’t agree that women can have penises etc. I don’t think any of this is complicated and Biden understood it well enough to thump Trump.

I know we shouldn't draw too many parallels between the US and the UK but I can imagine what might happen in our next election after the next few year's of economic stagnation and a similar approach to social issues.

Yes, and this is the major reason why Starmer massively rowed back Labour’s position on trans issues.

[sockwithaticket]

Well that sums up my point really. Maybe they have issues and concerns that we are just unable or unwilling to engage with, much easier to call them names. It’s happening across the world and we just say how awful they all are whilst people move to more extremist position as the only way of being heard

I'm not sure how useful it is to reduce using terms in accordance with their definition to name calling. Objectively, an awful lot of the Republican platform and the what comes out of the leading Republicans is misogynist, racist and homophobic. Perhaps the brutal reality is that a lot of Americans are too.

As much as there has been a rightward surge in much of the developed world, I think its easy to overstate and recently in various European elections we've seen a response to that. While cost of living and the consequence of neo-liberal economics are a problem that's driving so much discontent and the centrists certainly don't seem to have any proper answers, neither do the right. Their main achievement is identifying that enough people are sufficiently politically disengaged and economically illiterate enough to keep voting against their own best interests because the right in general sure as shit isn't interested in restraiing runaway corporatism and vulture capitlasim or easing the burden of the working class. They want to facilitate greater exploitation and greater wealth stratification.

I think this is lazy analysis - Trump has managed to connect with a large and remarkably diverse body of the American people twice now. It was something of a shibboleth among left/liberal economists that inflation wouldn’t matter so long as the economy grew as well, the public clearly disagreed and it was obvious that they would.

Full stop I think the Democrats are lazy - their opponents are idiots and dying off so why engage with them, their diverse coalition will carry them to permanent victory, immigration is an unalloyed good, if you disagree with them societally you are backwards and fighting a culture war. They got a warning on this from 2016 (and Bill Clinton warned them then and was ignored by a remarkably arrogant party hierarchy). Turns out American Hispanics don’t love unrestricted migration, turns out inflation makes people feel poorer, turns out a lot of people (not least the often socially conservative non-white Democratic core voter) don’t agree that women can have penises etc. I don’t think any of this is complicated and Biden understood it well enough to thump Trump.

And the apparent answer to economic discontent is to turn to someone who will make life more expensive for them if all his proposed tariffs are instated, will once again cut taxes for the richest, will deregulate people who are already exploiting the have nots as much as they're legally able etc. etc.

I totally get that people have economic concerns, but I cannot fathom how they believe turning to the Republicans will fix any of their ills.

As for the other stuff... the Republicans have certainly managed to put those issues front and centre in peoples minds and goodness knows I sympathise on immigration (I'd prefer the UK start aiming for net zero there as well as with the environment), but I really don't get how anyone allows the trans issue to rank above the rights of the women in your life to have access to safe reproductive healthcare or the threat to democracy that Trump has repeatedly suggested he'll be.

[_Os_]

And the apparent answer to economic discontent is to turn to someone who will make life more expensive for them if all his proposed tariffs are instated, will once again cut taxes for the richest, will deregulate people who are already exploiting the have nots as much as they're legally able etc. etc.

I totally get that people have economic concerns, but I cannot fathom how they believe turning to the Republicans will fix any of their ills.

Easy. They buy the lies and are inclined to vote their identity. Then the country is further damaged and the people who voted for it get poorer. This is repeated until there is not much democracy. African politics 101.

It's why Starmer is missing a trick by not making sure there's large ongoing enquiries/investigations/prosecutions into all the Tory corruption. Public show trials to hammer home what happened in a way which cannot be forgotten. Seems to me he doesn't want to damage the UK's reputation. Foolish, it opens the possibility of the Tories not changing and coming back worse than before.

[Thor Sedan]

And I don't think we will see a Democrat administration ever again.

[Paddington Bear]

I'm not sure how useful it is to reduce using terms in accordance with their definition to name calling. Objectively, an awful lot of the Republican platform and the what comes out of the leading Republicans is misogynist, racist and homophobic. Perhaps the brutal reality is that a lot of Americans are too.

As much as there has been a rightward surge in much of the developed world, I think its easy to overstate and recently in various European elections we've seen a response to that. While cost of living and the consequence of neo-liberal economics are a problem that's driving so much discontent and the centrists certainly don't seem to have any proper answers, neither do the right. Their main achievement is identifying that enough people are sufficiently politically disengaged and economically illiterate enough to keep voting against their own best interests because the right in general sure as shit isn't interested in restraiing runaway corporatism and vulture capitlasim or easing the burden of the working class. They want to facilitate greater exploitation and greater wealth stratification.

I think this is lazy analysis - Trump has managed to connect with a large and remarkably diverse body of the American people twice now. It was something of a shibboleth among left/liberal economists that inflation wouldn’t matter so long as the economy grew as well, the public clearly disagreed and it was obvious that they would.

Full stop I think the Democrats are lazy - their opponents are idiots and dying off so why engage with them, their diverse coalition will carry them to permanent victory, immigration is an unalloyed good, if you disagree with them societally you are backwards and fighting a culture war. They got a warning on this from 2016 (and Bill Clinton warned them then and was ignored by a remarkably arrogant party hierarchy). Turns out American Hispanics don’t love unrestricted migration, turns out inflation makes people feel poorer, turns out a lot of people (not least the often socially conservative non-white Democratic core voter) don’t agree that women can have penises etc. I don’t think any of this is complicated and Biden understood it well enough to thump Trump.

And the apparent answer to economic discontent is to turn to someone who will make life more expensive for them if all his proposed tariffs are instated, will once again cut taxes for the richest, will deregulate people who are already exploiting the have nots as much as they're legally able etc. etc.

I totally get that people have economic concerns, but I cannot fathom how they believe turning to the Republicans will fix any of their ills.

As for the other stuff... the Republicans have certainly managed to put those issues front and centre in peoples minds and goodness knows I sympathise on immigration (I'd prefer the UK start aiming for net zero there as well as with the environment), but I really don't get how anyone allows the trans issue to rank above the rights of the women in your life to have access to safe reproductive healthcare or the threat to democracy that Trump has repeatedly suggested he'll be.

Tariffs and free trade are both blunt instruments for personal prosperity. Overall and certainly for the line on the graph free trade has been good for western nations. For individuals in certain industries? Much less so. For some communities? Totally devastating. Tax cuts for the richest? Yeah the Americans seem to have a real weakness for it. Temporarily embarrassed millionaires yadayada.

Trans/abortion are surely two sides of the same coin? Most people will never really use/encounter it, but find the idea of it being forced upon them/taken away from them by politicians to be a massive imposition upon their way of life. CNN overnight mentioned targeted adverts towards black and hispanic men on the issue by Trump as having been a factor.

My main contention with your first point was around the ‘they’re just idiots’ style of analysis. Most voters for all parties in all countries are objectively pretty dim, I don’t think it’s an analysis that gets us anywhere as to people’s motivations.

[Tichtheid]

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I think this is lazy analysis - Trump has managed to connect with a large and remarkably diverse body of the American people twice now. It was something of a shibboleth among left/liberal economists that inflation wouldn’t matter so long as the economy grew as well, the public clearly disagreed and it was obvious that they would.

Full stop I think the Democrats are lazy - their opponents are idiots and dying off so why engage with them, their diverse coalition will carry them to permanent victory, immigration is an unalloyed good, if you disagree with them societally you are backwards and fighting a culture war. They got a warning on this from 2016 (and Bill Clinton warned them then and was ignored by a remarkably arrogant party hierarchy). Turns out American Hispanics don’t love unrestricted migration, turns out inflation makes people feel poorer, turns out a lot of people (not least the often socially conservative non-white Democratic core voter) don’t agree that women can have penises etc. I don’t think any of this is complicated and Biden understood it well enough to thump Trump.

And the apparent answer to economic discontent is to turn to someone who will make life more expensive for them if all his proposed tariffs are instated, will once again cut taxes for the richest, will deregulate people who are already exploiting the have nots as much as they're legally able etc. etc.

I totally get that people have economic concerns, but I cannot fathom how they believe turning to the Republicans will fix any of their ills.

As for the other stuff... the Republicans have certainly managed to put those issues front and centre in peoples minds and goodness knows I sympathise on immigration (I'd prefer the UK start aiming for net zero there as well as with the environment), but I really don't get how anyone allows the trans issue to rank above the rights of the women in your life to have access to safe reproductive healthcare or the threat to democracy that Trump has repeatedly suggested he'll be.

Tariffs and free trade are both blunt instruments for personal prosperity. Overall and certainly for the line on the graph free trade has been good for western nations. For individuals in certain industries? Much less so. For some communities? Totally devastating. Tax cuts for the richest? Yeah the Americans seem to have a real weakness for it. Temporarily embarrassed millionaires yadayada.

Trans/abortion are surely two sides of the same coin? Most people will never really use/encounter it, but find the idea of it being forced upon them/taken away from them by politicians to be a massive imposition upon their way of life. CNN overnight mentioned targeted adverts towards black and hispanic men on the issue by Trump as having been a factor.

My main contention with your first point was around the ‘they’re just idiots’ style of analysis. Most voters for all parties in all countries are objectively pretty dim, I don’t think it’s an analysis that gets us anywhere as to people’s motivations.

We can agree not everyone who voted Trump is an idiot, some are merely disgusting, some would be both. And we can agree the Dems did a bad job, leaving Biden in the race so late, having to turn to what wasn't a strong candidate, and for all they identified problems with the GOP they were very light on what they'd actually do about say abortion, okay the country has been shat on, but if you want to run for office what are you actually going to do about it, about the supremes...

And they left that void in an election in which the situation isn't great for many so the norm is to vote out the incumbents. Frustrating as hell of course so many turned to a barking mad alternative