The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[charltom]

https://x.com/Scotlandteam/status/18570 ... wVeuA&s=19

Chuffed for Muncaster, would have liked to see Jordan at 10 and Paterson at 15 but hey ho.

Is the A game being shown anywhere? Expect several of those guys to be involved.

Have to admit, I’m quite surprised how strong that 2nd XV looks after all my moaning about depth

I like it. And they clearly see TJ as a FB prospect so want to give him more time there.

[Big D]

https://x.com/Scotlandteam/status/18570 ... wVeuA&s=19

Chuffed for Muncaster, would have liked to see Jordan at 10 and Paterson at 15 but hey ho.

Is the A game being shown anywhere? Expect several of those guys to be involved.

Have to admit, I’m quite surprised how strong that 2nd XV looks after all my moaning about depth

Would like to see Muncaster in his natural position but that aside I would think only Duhan will be complaining as Graham gets another opportunity to bump his try tally up v lesser sides

[Biffer]

https://x.com/Scotlandteam/status/18570 ... wVeuA&s=19

Chuffed for Muncaster, would have liked to see Jordan at 10 and Paterson at 15 but hey ho.

Is the A game being shown anywhere? Expect several of those guys to be involved.

Have to admit, I’m quite surprised how strong that 2nd XV looks after all my moaning about depth

Would like to see Muncaster in his natural position but that aside I would think only Duhan will be complaining as Graham gets another opportunity to bump his try tally up v lesser sides

Deliberate tactic to motivate DvdM imo.

[I like neeps]

TJ to Bristol is a done deal according to the Telegraph. Big loss for Glasgow.

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

[Big D]

TJ gone to Bristol.

[Slick]

https://x.com/Scotlandteam/status/18570 ... wVeuA&s=19

Chuffed for Muncaster, would have liked to see Jordan at 10 and Paterson at 15 but hey ho.

Is the A game being shown anywhere? Expect several of those guys to be involved.

Have to admit, I’m quite surprised how strong that 2nd XV looks after all my moaning about depth

I like it. And they clearly see TJ as a FB prospect so want to give him more time there.

Do we need full backs more than we need 10’s and 12’s?

[Slick]

TJ to Bristol is a done deal according to the Telegraph. Big loss for Glasgow.

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

My initial reaction is it stinks

[Jock42]

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

My initial reaction is it stinks

I agree but unfortunately the professional game has a much more mercenary aspect about it and I can't say I wouldn't do the same if someone offered me loads more cash.

[Big D]

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

My initial reaction is it stinks

Contracts will be timed for both parties needs. If he hadn't kicked on under his two year deal no one would have complained if Glasgow binned him.

Given the recent SRU losses it is unlikely either pro side will be given more cash to spend that is necessary and with ST likely getting massive money by SRU standards then the die was likely cast.

Duhan got a ridiculous deal to move. No one is turning down 350k as a winger and the SRU/Edinburgh were right to say cheers but on you go.

Given the massive SRU financial blackhole and the short careers players have, it is expecting too much of the players when risking leaving close to six figures on the table.

[I like neeps]

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

My initial reaction is it stinks

I agree but to be fair to the guy sounds like he was off to England cap or no cap as he was being linked pre capture. Don't think he has used us in this case.

[Slick]

ohhhhhh, so we are all going to be nice and reasonable now are we? Pathetic!

[Yr Alban]

TJ to Bristol is a done deal according to the Telegraph. Big loss for Glasgow.

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

Would also make the point that in both cases, the Scottish system has rehabilitated a player who could have quit the pro game otherwise. Two fingers up to all of the ‘but where did he learn his rugby’ types.

[clydecloggie]

ohhhhhh, so we are all going to be nice and reasonable now are we? Pathetic!

for a guy who came through a pretty unconventional pathway to be a key player in a URC winning team and now a full international Tier 1 cap - I'm gutted he's leaving Glasgow but wish him all the luck and well done on securing his financial future. He is above criticism, our Laird of Ayr.

[Slick]

ohhhhhh, so we are all going to be nice and reasonable now are we? Pathetic!

for a guy who came through a pretty unconventional pathway to be a key player in a URC winning team and now a full international Tier 1 cap - I'm gutted he's leaving Glasgow but wish him all the luck and well done on securing his financial future. He is above criticism, our Laird of Ayr.

Baron of Bristol

[KingBlairhorn]

Yeah, an average of ten starts a year isn't really plenty of playing time.

There are only 20-odd games each season for Edinburgh and the back row is pretty attritional. I think you would want or expect some rotation there ideally.

Obviously Crosbie would have more starts at a club with fewer international-standard back rows but he is not really starved of professional experience, comparatively. Josh Bayliss is the same age and has a similar number of starts at Bath. Jack Dempsey is 3 years older and only has 36 more starts.

Professional experience does not necessarily equal a chance to push on or get game time in a certain position (in this case at 7). Bayliss is a jack of all trades back row who might not let anyone down but is a master of none of them. Crosbie had potential and was stuck grabbing game time in whatever position he could for a while and is now effectively a utility backrow with no set position nailed down as his best. Dempsey has more starts at 8 than Crosbie does starts.

That 2017 under 20s team gave three good international players but Crosbie and to a lesser extent CHH and Craig had the potential to be better than they are.

The 2017 u20 team might be our greatest ever at that level. Alex Craig, Darcy Graham, Kinghorn, Crosbie, Matt Fagerson, McDowall, CHH and Tom Gordon all went on to be internationals and the likes of Ross McCann, Charlie Shiel, Cammy Hutchinson, Tom Dodd and Hamish Bain all went on to have professional careers.

[Big D]

There are only 20-odd games each season for Edinburgh and the back row is pretty attritional. I think you would want or expect some rotation there ideally.

Obviously Crosbie would have more starts at a club with fewer international-standard back rows but he is not really starved of professional experience, comparatively. Josh Bayliss is the same age and has a similar number of starts at Bath. Jack Dempsey is 3 years older and only has 36 more starts.

Professional experience does not necessarily equal a chance to push on or get game time in a certain position (in this case at 7). Bayliss is a jack of all trades back row who might not let anyone down but is a master of none of them. Crosbie had potential and was stuck grabbing game time in whatever position he could for a while and is now effectively a utility backrow with no set position nailed down as his best. Dempsey has more starts at 8 than Crosbie does starts.

That 2017 under 20s team gave three good international players but Crosbie and to a lesser extent CHH and Craig had the potential to be better than they are.

The 2017 u20 team might be our greatest ever at that level. Alex Craig, Darcy Graham, Kinghorn, Crosbie, Matt Fagerson, McDowall, CHH and Tom Gordon all went on to be internationals and the likes of Ross McCann, Charlie Shiel, Cammy Hutchinson, Tom Dodd and Hamish Bain all went on to have professional careers.

Yeah very good team. Esp back row and back 3.I just remembered the team from the 5/6 play off and looked it up. Just can't help but feel Crosbie could have been better if dare I say it he was based at the other end of the M8.

[I like neeps]

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

Would also make the point that in both cases, the Scottish system has rehabilitated a player who could have quit the pro game otherwise. Two fingers up to all of the ‘but where did he learn his rugby’ types.

Tom Jordan is the success of the super6. Is now an international 300k a year guy because of it.

Duhan, I think would've made it anywhere who paid for his hip operation.

[Tichtheid]

Duhan, I think would've made it anywhere who paid for his hip operation.

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

[I like neeps]

Duhan, I think would've made it anywhere who paid for his hip operation.

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

[dpedin]

Duhan, I think would've made it anywhere who paid for his hip operation.

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

[KingBlairhorn]

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

You've got to wonder how the SRU failed to make someone like Robbie Nairn (who was perhaps slightly less powerful but probably faster) into an international player when they did so much great work with Duhan.

[robmatic]

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

You've got to wonder how the SRU failed to make someone like Robbie Nairn (who was perhaps slightly less powerful but probably faster) into an international player when they did so much great work with Duhan.

I feel like Nairn probably had more competition at Glasgow than Duhan did at Edinburgh so never got that breakthrough. And Duhan always contributed tries, so at least justified his place that way even if his overall game had weaknesses.

You can also consider Jack Blain, who ticked a lot of the boxes for a pro winger, but never really made an impact in his first team appearances at Edinburgh.

[I like neeps]

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

He does still have all of those problems. Maybe less so under the high ball where he's actually quite good. Duhan isn't actually technically great but it's the planet theory in that he's bigger and faster than everyone and so doesn't need to be.

He was also a south African u20 and good enough to play pro rugby in france and SA. Tom Jordan did come from absolutely nowhere, NZ university rugby. If he'd joined say Watsonians and Edinburgh would he be who he is today? Eh.

[Biffer]

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

He does still have all of those problems. Maybe less so under the high ball where he's actually quite good. Duhan isn't actually technically great but it's the planet theory in that he's bigger and faster than everyone and so doesn't need to be.

He was also a south African u20 and good enough to play pro rugby in france and SA. Tom Jordan did come from absolutely nowhere, NZ university rugby. If he'd joined say Watsonians and Edinburgh would he be who he is today? Eh.

Having been at most Edinburgh games over that time period, I'd say the defensive positioning, kicking out of hand and ability under a high ball are all substantially better. Before he went south he was running a lot straighter than he has been for Edinburgh recently, but some of that is due to the attacking style or lack thereof in the team currently. He's alos a much, much better chaser of high balls than he was when he first arrived.

[Dogbert]

Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

[Big D]

Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position. Shiel should have his deal renewed either.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

[robmatic]

Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

I hope that doesn't mean that he'll be taking it easy for the rest of the season with his next contract already confirmed.

[robmatic]

Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

It has been a shambles really. Ideally, Shiel should have kicked on because I think he has the attributes but it seems like it isn't going to happen for him.

[Big D]

Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

It has been a shambles really. Ideally, Shiel should have kicked on because I think he has the attributes but it seems like it isn't going to happen for him.

He's 27 soon. 18 months younger than Horne and 4 years older than Dobie. Has to be time to look at the academy boys.

[robmatic]

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

It has been a shambles really. Ideally, Shiel should have kicked on because I think he has the attributes but it seems like it isn't going to happen for him.

He's 27 soon. 18 months younger than Horne and 4 years older than Dobie. Has to be time to look at the academy boys.

That's what I mean, that ship has well and truly sailed.

[Slick]

Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

It has been a shambles really. Ideally, Shiel should have kicked on because I think he has the attributes but it seems like it isn't going to happen for him.

I thought Asfar was a guy who had real potential but he seems to have dropped off the radar a bit. Always annoyed that Dobbie was scrabbling around for game time while Vellacott was getting loads of game time

[Tichtheid]

Fro me Shiel is one of the players very badly affected by the atrocious selection policy at Edinburgh. The only part of his game that was dodgy was his box kicking! If he'd have been given more starts he would have developed by now. He has a terrific pass, pace to burn and a great engine.

As it is he cuts the other players' hair

[Jock42]

Shiel has been shat on at Edinburgh with coaches selecting the big name through fear despite them being shit. Price is entitled to go where he wants and make as much money doing so but I'm annoyed that he's been shifted to Edinburgh to appease Toony, stifled others development and played about 2 good games.

[Blackmac]

The more you see the Beaham croc roll last night the more annoyed you get. He not only croc rolls but actually deliberately attacks the Argentinian's supporting knee.

[Slick]

I think I prefer a minutes silence. We can be trusted

[KingBlairhorn]

Shiel has been shat on at Edinburgh with coaches selecting the big name through fear despite them being shit. Price is entitled to go where he wants and make as much money doing so but I'm annoyed that he's been shifted to Edinburgh to appease Toony, stifled others development and played about 2 good games.

If you are implying price impacted on the potential for Shiel to develop into a top pro then I think you are mistaken. Shiel was 26 when price arrived and had had many years to establish himself at pro level. His chance passed years ago. I would also add that Shiel played under Solomons, Cockeril, Blair and Everitt and none of them thought he was good enough. He had more than 50 appearances in that time so it’s not like he never got a chance at all.

I accept that’s not exactly a who’s who of the greatest ever coaches, but equally the grass always seems greener and players not playing inevitably get built up as the next great hope. I think Shiel simply wasn’t good enough.

[Slick]

Some lovely emotion from both sides at the anthems

[Jock42]

Shiel has been shat on at Edinburgh with coaches selecting the big name through fear despite them being shit. Price is entitled to go where he wants and make as much money doing so but I'm annoyed that he's been shifted to Edinburgh to appease Toony, stifled others development and played about 2 good games.

If you are implying price impacted on the potential for Shiel to develop into a top pro then I think you are mistaken. Shiel was 26 when price arrived and had had many years to establish himself at pro level. His chance passed years ago. I would also add that Shiel played under Solomons, Cockeril, Blair and Everitt and none of them thought he was good enough. He had more than 50 appearances in that time so it’s not like he never got a chance at all.

I accept that’s not exactly a who’s who of the greatest ever coaches, but equally the grass always seems greener and players not playing inevitably get built up as the next great hope. I think Shiel simply wasn’t good enough.

No I'm not, should be 2 paragraphs.

[KingBlairhorn]

Shiel has been shat on at Edinburgh with coaches selecting the big name through fear despite them being shit. Price is entitled to go where he wants and make as much money doing so but I'm annoyed that he's been shifted to Edinburgh to appease Toony, stifled others development and played about 2 good games.

If you are implying price impacted on the potential for Shiel to develop into a top pro then I think you are mistaken. Shiel was 26 when price arrived and had had many years to establish himself at pro level. His chance passed years ago. I would also add that Shiel played under Solomons, Cockeril, Blair and Everitt and none of them thought he was good enough. He had more than 50 appearances in that time so it’s not like he never got a chance at all.

I accept that’s not exactly a who’s who of the greatest ever coaches, but equally the grass always seems greener and players not playing inevitably get built up as the next great hope. I think Shiel simply wasn’t good enough.

No I'm not, should be 2 paragraphs.

lol, fair enough!

[Slick]

All a bit meh.

Hutchinson and Bayliss been good, TJ OK as well. Reed not being terribly impressive