Heart of darkness: Lucy Letby

[C69]

The traditional hierarchy exists to an extent tbh in lots of places the Nurse management are much stronger and malicious and have more sway than the medical management.
There has been a mushrooming or Nursing Management posts that dwarfs any other profession in the NHS.
Most Chief Nurses surround themselves with people they hàve worked with before and create an incestuous culture around themselves to protect their Empires.

[geordie_6]

Denied permission to appeal.

BBC News - Lucy Letby denied permission for baby murders appeal
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9773l3qzl4o

[Waudbee]

Denied permission to appeal.

BBC News - Lucy Letby denied permission for baby murders appeal
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9773l3qzl4o

[Blackmac]

This is so typical of Govt depts that it verges on the absurd. That is not a fault of private provision, that is a fault of budget setting within the NHS that results in them paying more in total than they need to.

It's astonishing they can't just offer their staff double time overtime instead of going to agency, but they only offer standard rates for extra shifts.

NHS Scotland has every so often placed a ban on use of nurse Agency staff except in some small highly specialist areas. All the boards run staff banks, equivalent to an internal agency, where staff are paid going rate for the job, can work flexibly and get all the other payments too ie annual leave, CPD, etc but less than what agencies might pay. Many nurses work on bank as they dont want to commit to regular hours of full time job, dont want to work at a senior level or have retired but want to keep working flexibly part time. However it requires the NHS and Gov to hold its nerve to try and drive the staff away from agencies and back into boards either as permanent staff or onto banks by refusing to use agency staff no matter what. This does mean in short term some pain for NHS until agency staff realise that if they want work they need to go into NHS staff bank or contract with NHS. It works but is painful and has usually been scuppered when for example the Gov puts NHS under pressure to meet existing or some new targets - then the NHS is left with dilemma of not hitting Gov target and getting it in the neck or quickly increasing staff by using whatever sources they can ie agency staff. My sympathy also lies with the Senior Nurse desperately trying to staff a rota to 'safe levels' but being told they cant use agency staff as a last resort, however NHS can put processes in place to support this over short term.

Agencies are very flexible, can pay what they want and very good at knowing where the NHS is hurting - they tend to be run by ex NHS staff - and know how to increase NHS dependency on their agency staff and how to attract certain groups of staff away from the NHS. Agencies don't care about NHS services they are only in it for a quick short term gain and increases prices if they know the NHS is struggling. They will always be there but the NHS can and should manage their dependency on them way down and look to change a lot of their working practices ie improve flexible working, annualized hours, etc and better workforce planning to identify key workforce risks in advance which has been done in the past. If the Gov and NHS, which essentially controls all the supply pipelines for key clinical staff, create a situation where workforce demand exceeds workforce supply then they are creating an environment where agencies will thrive and that is where we are at now! It is another apsect of privatizing the NHS I'm afraid!

The bank system is great to a certain extent and works well but again does not offer any enhanced rates. My wife and her colleagues are continually pressed to do extra shifts at short notice but only ever offered standard rates including any unsocial hours. There is no real incentive and then they have to resort to the agencies and pay the extortionate rates they charge. Why they can't just empower the nurse managers to offer existing staff, say double time, to cover at short notice is ridiculous and would surely help in reducing the agency dependence.

[C69]

I can't get paid overtime and good will has now gone out of the window.
The Tories have made the NHS a basket case and it's not going to be easy to sort.
I am looking to retire as early as possible, I hate the culture of the NHS and the appalling management.

[Uncle fester]

Lucy Letby failed nurse placement for being 'cold'
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyz904y0xyo

Eirian Powell made comments that "Lucy would go far, she had a great career, earmarked her as a good nurse."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz7jd3jd7qvo

[Slick]

Lucy Letby failed nurse placement for being 'cold'
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyz904y0xyo

Eirian Powell made comments that "Lucy would go far, she had a great career, earmarked her as a good nurse."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz7jd3jd7qvo

Private Eye have gone pretty much all in on her side for a new trial. I have to say I’m very surprised and can’t help but think they are going to look very foolish. I just hope they have the decency to put their hands up if that is the case

[dpedin]

Lucy Letby failed nurse placement for being 'cold'
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyz904y0xyo

Eirian Powell made comments that "Lucy would go far, she had a great career, earmarked her as a good nurse."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz7jd3jd7qvo

Private Eye have gone pretty much all in on her side for a new trial. I have to say I’m very surprised and can’t help but think they are going to look very foolish. I just hope they have the decency to put their hands up if that is the case

As I have said previously I have no idea if Letby is guilty of one or all of the deaths. However for her to get away with the number of deaths she has been found guilty of then the whole of the neonatal unit and in particular its senior clinicians and management must be guilty of complete and utter mismanagement and clinical negligence. My experience, albeit limited, is that there should be a whole array of systems in place to monitor and investigate every unexplained death and every spike in deaths rising above a specific level at a unit, regional and national level. Look at the ug scrutiny associated with the unexplained neonatal deaths in Glasgow, eventually attributed to water infection and the detail of subsequent investigations, external reviews and a FAI. The attached doc is an example of the type of wider monitoring of neonatal deaths in Scotland which isn't perfect but an example.

https://www.healthcareimprovementscotla ... MBARGO.pdf

Letby may well be guilty but I suspect a number of deaths not attributed to her have been thrown into the mix to protect the clinicians and managers from their obvious failures. I find it inconceivable that the number of unexplained neonatal deaths can be attributed to a single person despite their criminal intent without it being identified a lot, lot earlier.

[SaintK]

Lucy Letby failed nurse placement for being 'cold'
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyz904y0xyo

Eirian Powell made comments that "Lucy would go far, she had a great career, earmarked her as a good nurse."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz7jd3jd7qvo

Private Eye have gone pretty much all in on her side for a new trial. I have to say I’m very surprised and can’t help but think they are going to look very foolish. I just hope they have the decency to put their hands up if that is the case

It's pretty interesting the Eye are backing Phil Hammond to the hilt editorally on this so far. He's raised some interesting theories and thrown light on just how badly departments are run and managed across the board
The senior management at the Countess of Chester hospital are in full arse covering mode even though the neonatal unit sounds as if it was already a basket case and dreadfully managed. I guess the thought of corporate manslaughter charges would do that.
The main "expert" witness for the prosecution Dr Evans comes over as a know it all, arrogant twat of a human being but appears to have been stood down by Cheshire police even though there are potentially another 25 "suspicious" cases to be investigated.
All in all whether she's guily or not it paints a hideous picture of just how dysfunctional the NHS is.

[Margin__Walker]

Just feels like something that will run and run. There's a lot about the case that seems unsatisfactory.

She may well be guilty, but the case that was built seems to be based around throwing a lot of stuff at a wall to see what sticks. Wouldn't be at all surprised if one or more of the murders or attempted murders she was convicted of was naturally occuring.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Lucy Letby failed nurse placement for being 'cold'
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyz904y0xyo

Eirian Powell made comments that "Lucy would go far, she had a great career, earmarked her as a good nurse."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz7jd3jd7qvo

Private Eye have gone pretty much all in on her side for a new trial. I have to say I’m very surprised and can’t help but think they are going to look very foolish. I just hope they have the decency to put their hands up if that is the case

It's pretty interesting the Eye are backing Phil Hammond to the hilt editorally on this so far. He's raised some interesting theories and thrown light on just how badly departments are run and managed across the board
The senior management at the Countess of Chester hospital are in full arse covering mode even though the neonatal unit sounds as if it was already a basket case and dreadfully managed. I guess the thought of corporate manslaughter charges would do that.
The main "expert" witness for the prosecution Dr Evans comes over as a know it all, arrogant twat of a human being but appears to have been stood down by Cheshire police even though there are potentially another 25 "suspicious" cases to be investigated.
All in all whether she's guily or not it paints a hideous picture of just how dysfunctional the NHS is.

Private Eye have some form in this. They went all in for Andrew Wakefield and the MMR/Autism thing long after it was clear the guy was a fraud.

[Brazil]

I was about to say the same thing Dinsdale. For every Post Office scandal there's a comparable fuck up, and I know from their articles on my industry you have to take their reporting with a pinch of salt as it tends to lean heavily on individual sources that suit their agenda.

[SaintK]

Private Eye have gone pretty much all in on her side for a new trial. I have to say I’m very surprised and can’t help but think they are going to look very foolish. I just hope they have the decency to put their hands up if that is the case

It's pretty interesting the Eye are backing Phil Hammond to the hilt editorally on this so far. He's raised some interesting theories and thrown light on just how badly departments are run and managed across the board
The senior management at the Countess of Chester hospital are in full arse covering mode even though the neonatal unit sounds as if it was already a basket case and dreadfully managed. I guess the thought of corporate manslaughter charges would do that.
The main "expert" witness for the prosecution Dr Evans comes over as a know it all, arrogant twat of a human being but appears to have been stood down by Cheshire police even though there are potentially another 25 "suspicious" cases to be investigated.
All in all whether she's guily or not it paints a hideous picture of just how dysfunctional the NHS is.

Private Eye have some form in this. They went all in for Andrew Wakefield and the MMR/Autism thing long after it was clear the guy was a fraud.

Sorry, are you saying they thought Wakefield was correct in his assertions or am I getting confused?
My recollection is that they went after him big time.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

It's pretty interesting the Eye are backing Phil Hammond to the hilt editorally on this so far. He's raised some interesting theories and thrown light on just how badly departments are run and managed across the board
The senior management at the Countess of Chester hospital are in full arse covering mode even though the neonatal unit sounds as if it was already a basket case and dreadfully managed. I guess the thought of corporate manslaughter charges would do that.
The main "expert" witness for the prosecution Dr Evans comes over as a know it all, arrogant twat of a human being but appears to have been stood down by Cheshire police even though there are potentially another 25 "suspicious" cases to be investigated.
All in all whether she's guily or not it paints a hideous picture of just how dysfunctional the NHS is.

Private Eye have some form in this. They went all in for Andrew Wakefield and the MMR/Autism thing long after it was clear the guy was a fraud.

Sorry, are you saying they thought Wakefield was correct in his assertions or am I getting confused?
My recollection is that they went after him big time.

They were actively supporting his theory for long after it has been shown to be a load of bollocks.

[SaintK]

Private Eye have some form in this. They went all in for Andrew Wakefield and the MMR/Autism thing long after it was clear the guy was a fraud.

Sorry, are you saying they thought Wakefield was correct in his assertions or am I getting confused?
My recollection is that they went after him big time.

They were actively supporting his theory for long after it has been shown to be a load of bollocks.

Aaah ok, I don't recall they did but then I'm getting old!!!
Wakefield is still at it but now in the USA. He married some multi billionairess who funds all his anti vax and other wacky conspracy theories but to a wider and more gullible audience

[Enzedder]

Sorry if RR - is there some element of coincidence in all this?

A neonatal ward manager at Lucy Letby’s hospital outlined 15 reasons why the British nurse could not be to blame for the deaths and collapse of babies, it has emerged.

Documents released for the Thirlwall Inquiry, which is examining how incidents at the Countess of Chester could have been prevented, show that Eirian Powell, Letby’s boss, was unconvinced by allegations against the nurse.

She distributed a document entitled Neonatal Unit review 2015-2016, in May 2016, which gave 15 reasons why it was unlikely there was a baby killer on the ward.

“There is no evidence whatsoever against LL (Lucy Letby) other than coincidence,” she wrote.

“LL works full time and has the qualification in speciality (QIS). She is therefore more likely to be looking after the sickest infant on the unit, LL is also available herself to work overtime when the acuity of the unit is over capacity.”

The neonatal ward manager went on to point out that the spike in deaths could be accounted for by failings on the unit and elsewhere as well as health problems with the babies.

Powell argued that two of the babies were diagnosed with congenital pneumonia, two had necrotising enterocolitis – a dangerous complication for preterm infants – one mother had a maternal syndrome and one baby had overwhelming sepsis.

“Some of the issues were related to midwifery problems,” she added. “The Cheshire and Mersey transport service have been involved in a few of these mortalities and they may have survived if the service was running adequately.”

She concluded: “Of all the post results there was no evidence of foul play.”

Powell also pointed out that two doctors, Dr John Gibbs and Dr Dave Harkness, had been present at several of the incidents.

Letby was convicted of murdering seven infants and attempting to murder seven more at the Countess of Chester Hospital between 2015 and 2016.

Since the verdicts, many scientists, statisticians, doctors and nurses have come forward to question the evidence given to the jury, who were not told about several reviews undertaken by the hospital to find out what was causing the spike in deaths. They largely pointed to overcrowding, sub-optimal care, understaffing and transfer issues.

More here https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/3604 ... s-innocent

[Calculon]

Don't know anything about this case apart from skim reading a small part of the surprisingly lengthy wiki article. She seems a complete nutcase. Is there actually anything to her being innocent or is this like the Amanda Knox
case where otherwise rational people were insisting Knox was guilty despite it being an obvious stich up by the Italians?

[Jethro]

Just so I am absolutely clear on this

YMX has never ever posted racist / xenophobic stuff and I am super super sorry if my earlier post intimated otherwise.

Thank you Donald, good luck with the Presidency.

[Uncle fester]

Sorry if RR - is there some element of coincidence in all this?

A neonatal ward manager at Lucy Letby’s hospital outlined 15 reasons why the British nurse could not be to blame for the deaths and collapse of babies, it has emerged.

Documents released for the Thirlwall Inquiry, which is examining how incidents at the Countess of Chester could have been prevented, show that Eirian Powell, Letby’s boss, was unconvinced by allegations against the nurse.

She distributed a document entitled Neonatal Unit review 2015-2016, in May 2016, which gave 15 reasons why it was unlikely there was a baby killer on the ward.

“There is no evidence whatsoever against LL (Lucy Letby) other than coincidence,” she wrote.

“LL works full time and has the qualification in speciality (QIS). She is therefore more likely to be looking after the sickest infant on the unit, LL is also available herself to work overtime when the acuity of the unit is over capacity.”

The neonatal ward manager went on to point out that the spike in deaths could be accounted for by failings on the unit and elsewhere as well as health problems with the babies.

Powell argued that two of the babies were diagnosed with congenital pneumonia, two had necrotising enterocolitis – a dangerous complication for preterm infants – one mother had a maternal syndrome and one baby had overwhelming sepsis.

“Some of the issues were related to midwifery problems,” she added. “The Cheshire and Mersey transport service have been involved in a few of these mortalities and they may have survived if the service was running adequately.”

She concluded: “Of all the post results there was no evidence of foul play.”

Powell also pointed out that two doctors, Dr John Gibbs and Dr Dave Harkness, had been present at several of the incidents.

Letby was convicted of murdering seven infants and attempting to murder seven more at the Countess of Chester Hospital between 2015 and 2016.

Since the verdicts, many scientists, statisticians, doctors and nurses have come forward to question the evidence given to the jury, who were not told about several reviews undertaken by the hospital to find out what was causing the spike in deaths. They largely pointed to overcrowding, sub-optimal care, understaffing and transfer issues.

More here https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/3604 ... s-innocent

There's been a number of these articles and they all ignore the insulin. Those babies were deliberately poisoned.

[Slick]

Don't know anything about this case apart from skim reading a small part of the surprisingly lengthy wiki article. She seems a complete nutcase. Is there actually anything to her being innocent or is this like the Amanda Knox
case where otherwise rational people were insisting Knox was guilty despite it being an obvious stich up by the Italians?

It’s a bit like Covid, lots of people jumping on bandwagons to be different