The Scottish Politics Thread

[Blackmac]

Scum bag

He's come up with an excuse from the Michael Matheson playbook. The Editor has called him a liar.

I am in a quandary on this one. Don't believe Neil Gray but the Record is several rungs below the Beano and Dandy.

Is anyone still in a quandary now that the grifting prick has been caught using public funds to take chauffeur driven cars to football matches with his friends and family. And yet again Swinney, the pathetic clown says the matter is closed.

[Biffer]

Seems we’re becoming Englands electricity generator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvz7392dxno

Not absolutely clear what benefit we get in Scotland from it at the moment. If it’s offshore wind and we get income from the licensing for that, all well and good. If all the profit goes into private hands outwith Scotland, not so much.

[tc27]

Seems we’re becoming Englands electricity generator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvz7392dxno

Not absolutely clear what benefit we get in Scotland from it at the moment. If it’s offshore wind and we get income from the licensing for that, all well and good. If all the profit goes into private hands outwith Scotland, not so much.

I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.

[Blackmac]

Seems we’re becoming Englands electricity generator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvz7392dxno

Not absolutely clear what benefit we get in Scotland from it at the moment. If it’s offshore wind and we get income from the licensing for that, all well and good. If all the profit goes into private hands outwith Scotland, not so much.

I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.

I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.

[Biffer]

Seems we’re becoming Englands electricity generator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvz7392dxno

Not absolutely clear what benefit we get in Scotland from it at the moment. If it’s offshore wind and we get income from the licensing for that, all well and good. If all the profit goes into private hands outwith Scotland, not so much.

I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.

I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?

[robmatic]

I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.

I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

[Tichtheid]

I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.

[Slick]

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.

Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

[Tichtheid]

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.

Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

Yeah, what I was getting at is that when the exports are logged they are counted as income for London, given that is where the headquarters are, rather than Scottish income - I'm not sure if this is the case, hence my question.

[Biffer]

I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.

[Biffer]

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.

Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

Yeah, what I was getting at is that when the exports are logged they are counted as income for London, given that is where the headquarters are, rather than Scottish income - I'm not sure if this is the case, hence my question.

Yeah, it’s something that’s not exactly clear to me either. Different industries put different adjustments on, some better than others. In the Space industry, Scotland has 15% of the employees but only generates 1% of the turnover, according to a recent report on the industry. The report notes that this is because organisations are headquartered in the south east so there an inherent bias in distribution of gdp because of that. When you then start to look at profit and revenue and assign tax income on that basis, it can be distorted to the southeast and London and away from other regions and nations.

[Slick]

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.

Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

Yeah, what I was getting at is that when the exports are logged they are counted as income for London, given that is where the headquarters are, rather than Scottish income - I'm not sure if this is the case, hence my question.

I don’t think it matters where the HQ is, all exports are counted as U.K. exports.

Still not sure if that’s answering your question

[Tichtheid]

Isn’t just a few taxes that Scotland keeps, such as income tax? Exports count as U.K.? I know Diageo invested about £380m in their 5 Experience distilleries, presumably the direct benefit to Scotland is jobs and so income tax generation.

Of course loads of these investments, across the U.K., come with massive tax breaks and “bungs” so it’s difficult to assess how much benefit we actually get

Yeah, what I was getting at is that when the exports are logged they are counted as income for London, given that is where the headquarters are, rather than Scottish income - I'm not sure if this is the case, hence my question.

I don’t think it matters where the HQ is, all exports are counted as U.K. exports.

Still not sure if that’s answering your question

I'm mixing my dates for figures here because it's all I could get from a first google,

GDP of London is £562.2Bn (2022 figures)
GDP of Scotland is £187Bn (2022 figures)

According to Scotch Whisky Association, the export value of whisky to the economy is £5.6Bn (2023). As biffer notes, adding that to the Scottish figure changes things, and that is only one industry.

The UK exports electricity to the European market, Scotland produces more than it uses yet we have higher standing charges than other areas of the UK (I think the Highland region pays something like 80% more than London for instance - I'd need to check to be sure on the actual number)

I'm not really coming to a conclusion on this, it's just things that appear to be anomalous to me.

[Paddington Bear]

Over New Year in the East Highlands I got talking to a few people involved in this project/involved in other community schemes, the level of excitement as to what can be achieved for the area through energy export schemes like this was off the charts, from investment it can bring in to the kind of people it can attract/retain in the area.

Inverness and its surroundings have a dynamism and enthusiasm for progress that is basically only otherwise seen in Britain in Manchester atm, schemes like this are a significant factor in it. Essentially, the Highlands have a massive comparative advantage when it comes to reliable renewable energy and they may as well use it and take our money whilst doing so

[Biffer]

Over New Year in the East Highlands I got talking to a few people involved in this project/involved in other community schemes, the level of excitement as to what can be achieved for the area through energy export schemes like this was off the charts, from investment it can bring in to the kind of people it can attract/retain in the area.

Inverness and its surroundings have a dynamism and enthusiasm for progress that is basically only otherwise seen in Britain in Manchester atm, schemes like this are a significant factor in it. Essentially, the Highlands have a massive comparative advantage when it comes to reliable renewable energy and they may as well use it and take our money whilst doing so

Not denying that, but it sounds like the words in the energy company marketing for the schemes. I want to be sure that the government and companies involved deliver genuine economic value for the area, rather than just skimming it off the top and buying a piano for the church hall.

[Blackmac]

I find this argument wierd, it like claming a lorry full of Whisky (and the road its travelling on) crossing at Berwick 'has no benefit to Scotland' ...thats not how the economy works.

The private capitial that builds that power generation is doing so on the basis it can sell it to the national grid which includes England (sorry). The massive upfront costs are mitigated by the expected returns over the lifetime of the generators.

Aside from electricity....unless your claiming they arent taxed on profits then I am not sure what the basis is for claming theres no benefit to people in Scotland.

I have to say I don't know enough to comment on how the power supply chain works, but this "England stealing Scottish electricity" argument has always seemed somewhat absurd.

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?

It wasn't a dig at you. It was a dig at a lot of comments to that effect that have been made.

[Blackmac]

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.

Good question, but it is another nationalist sound bite about how much the Scotch whisky industry is worth to the Scottish economy. As you have pointed out, as most of the distilleries are foreign owned, is it?

[Blackmac]

I didn't mention stealing. I'd like a better understanding of how much Scotland gets out of it. Saying they're taxed on the profits doesn't cut it I'm afraid. How are the new hydro schemes returninng profits to the local area? Is the offshore wind licensing enough? Should a percentage of the revenue from these bootstraps be used to reduce the standing charges in the remote areas where renewable energy is generated?

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.

Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.

[Slick]

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.

Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.

We can really because we can use it as a resource and places that are not windy can’t

[petej]

Over New Year in the East Highlands I got talking to a few people involved in this project/involved in other community schemes, the level of excitement as to what can be achieved for the area through energy export schemes like this was off the charts, from investment it can bring in to the kind of people it can attract/retain in the area.

Inverness and its surroundings have a dynamism and enthusiasm for progress that is basically only otherwise seen in Britain in Manchester atm, schemes like this are a significant factor in it. Essentially, the Highlands have a massive comparative advantage when it comes to reliable renewable energy and they may as well use it and take our money whilst doing so

Not denying that, but it sounds like the words in the energy company marketing for the schemes. I want to be sure that the government and companies involved deliver genuine economic value for the area, rather than just skimming it off the top and buying a piano for the church hall.

Skimming everything off the top is what our bloated services sector does. It is very funny when people complain how impossible/expensive it is build anything in the UK. It is part of our culture. The shear weight and bloat internal services in companies like finance, commercial, hr departments and external service sector just takes most of the money and time.

[Biffer]

How much does Scotland get out of Diageo building a new distillery?

I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.

Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.

Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.

[Blackmac]

I don’t view that as exactly the same as it’s not a usage of our natural resources in the same way. Once construction is completed for energy facilities, it’s substantially rent sitting for 25 years, plus maintenance. Diageo have to continuously spend money to get the resources required to operate the plant - there’s a supply chain involved to a far far greater extent in that kind of production, and it’s up to us as a country how we then use our economy and resources to exploit the supply chain to provide the multipliers into our economy. That opportunity doesn’t exist in the same way for hydro power or wind power as there’s no ‘input’ resource that has to be paid for.

Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.

Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.

You know we are getting paid a pittance for it.??

My question was how do we calculate it as a resource. We know there is x amount of oil, coal, etc, but that's not so easy with things like water and wind.

[Biffer]

Surely we can't class wind as a natural resource whose usage can be calculated.

Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.

You know we are getting paid a pittance for it.??

My question was how do we calculate it as a resource. We know there is x amount of oil, coal, etc, but that's not so easy with things like water and wind.

It sounded more like you saying it couldn’t be calculated, rather than asking how we calculate it. And I didn’t say we should take a pittance for it, I was saying we shouldn’t. My point is, are we getting suitable value for it?

[tc27]

Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.

The wind isnt a resource until you build windmills to turn it into electricity and connect them to the grid..unless you build them with public money then I am not sure what skimming off you can do other than taxing profits/ground rents as you do with any other private business? If you ramp up the tax or stipulate that they have to provide free electricity to 'locals' the private capital will dry up. I will make the point again the renewable building surge is being made possible by giving investors high confidence returns from the GB energy market (with a floor set to the wholesale LNG generation price)

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.

Answer from the Scottish government: https://www.gov.scot/publications/gover ... 4/pages/2/

Q: Do you use company headquarters to assign corporation tax or taxes like VAT or insurance?
A: No. Corporation tax on trading profits is estimated on a company-by-company basis, depending on the economic activity each company has in Scotland, not simply on the location of company headquarters. VAT, and other taxes such as those related to insurance activity, are related to expenditure, and are therefore estimated based on expenditure that occurs in Scotland, rather than the location of a company’s head office.

Over New Year in the East Highlands I got talking to a few people involved in this project/involved in other community schemes, the level of excitement as to what can be achieved for the area through energy export schemes like this was off the charts, from investment it can bring in to the kind of people it can attract/retain in the area.

Inverness and its surroundings have a dynamism and enthusiasm for progress that is basically only otherwise seen in Britain in Manchester atm, schemes like this are a significant factor in it. Essentially, the Highlands have a massive comparative advantage when it comes to reliable renewable energy and they may as well use it and take our money whilst doing so

My BiL is involved in the engineering side of this..he is very excited about some of the projects in the pipeline with renewables, there are also some big carbon capture and hydrogen generation projects that the UK is really well placed to for.

[Tichtheid]

Funny you should mention that, because I'm still not sure how the likes of Diageo and Pernod etc count when it comes to tax - does their income count as Scottish or UKish when their products are exported? Diageo's headquarters are in London, as is Pernod's UK organisation.

Answer from the Scottish government: https://www.gov.scot/publications/gover ... 4/pages/2/

Q: Do you use company headquarters to assign corporation tax or taxes like VAT or insurance?
A: No. Corporation tax on trading profits is estimated on a company-by-company basis, depending on the economic activity each company has in Scotland, not simply on the location of company headquarters. VAT, and other taxes such as those related to insurance activity, are related to expenditure, and are therefore estimated based on expenditure that occurs in Scotland, rather than the location of a company’s head office.

That's not the bit that answers my question. There is another part that talks about whisky consumed in the uk and the revenue that brings in and it also talks about exports, which Slick and I determined would be counted as UK exports.

[Biffer]

Why not? Our geography makes a wind farm in Scotland more valuable than most other places. Should we just say 'no, it's fine, we'll just take a pittance for it?'. That would be stupid.

The wind isnt a resource until you build windmills to turn it into electricity and connect them to the grid..unless you build them with public money then I am not sure what skimming off you can do other than taxing profits/ground rents as you do with any other private business? If you ramp up the tax or stipulate that they have to provide free electricity to 'locals' the private capital will dry up. I will make the point again the renewable building surge is being made possible by giving investors high confidence returns from the GB energy market (with a floor set to the wholesale LNG generation price)

You could say that about any resource - it’s not worth anything until you have the infrastructure to exploit it.

Taxing profits is what happens anyway, to any business. Ground rents is a closer approximation of what I’m talking about although I’d prefer a percentage of revenue. And you have to pitch it at the level where it doesn’t put investment off. There are some schemes which do something like this for local communities, what I’d like is the broader licensing of them to include this as general taxation to Scottish govt. Or smarter people than me might come up with something more imaginative. We’re not talking about taxing them til the pips squeak here, just ensuring that we get a suitable level. We failed to do this in oil and gas - the Norwegians have made more money from their oil and gas extraction than the UK, due to a different model being used. It’s a clear demonstration that different models can produce more income without decreasing activity. I just want to ensure we don’t fuck it up again.

[tc27]

Good example of why we need a high capacity grid:

https://x.com/twallin_james/status/1862 ... 57872?s=19

Fwiw I have no problem with a regional pricing scheme that rewards places for adding power generation to the grid

[Biffer]

Good example of why we need a high capacity grid:

https://x.com/twallin_james/status/1862 ... 57872?s=19

Fwiw I have no problem with a regional pricing scheme that rewards places for adding power generation to the grid

Yeah it's ridiculous. Should be incentiviaing companies with high flexible electricity utilisation to set up near the sources of power. Public investment in other infrastructure needed to then support those investments in transport, housing, schools, hospitals etc. Then we get real, lasting benefit. But at the moment, they're charged more to be near the source.

[Slick]

It looks like the budget is going to be a case of a financial lifeline thrown and then being used to turn us into a state even more dependent on welfare.

All I've seen so far is the money being used to scrap the 2 child benefit cap (perhaps not a bad thing in itself), give the winter fuel payment back to pensioners, bung loads at the NHS without too much thought on what it's actually going to achieve and then bail themselves out of ridiculous unfunded council tax and pay increases.

There was a real chance to do something with this cash, like maybe look to grow a moribund economy, but no, chuck it all at things they can then use as a stick to beat the UK government with.

I'm not saying some of it isn't worthy, but it does seem we will just be back in the same position in fairly short order with delivery not matching rhetoric

[Big D]

It looks like the budget is going to be a case of a financial lifeline thrown and then being used to turn us into a state even more dependent on welfare.

All I've seen so far is the money being used to scrap the 2 child benefit cap (perhaps not a bad thing in itself), give the winter fuel payment back to pensioners, bung loads at the NHS without too much thought on what it's actually going to achieve and then bail themselves out of ridiculous unfunded council tax and pay increases.

There was a real chance to do something with this cash, like maybe look to grow a moribund economy, but no, chuck it all at things they can then use as a stick to beat the UK government with.

I'm not saying some of it isn't worthy, but it does seem we will just be back in the same position in fairly short order with delivery not matching rhetoric

It is very much a budget with an eye on 2026 and winning over voters, as any party would of course.

Will be interesting to see how significant the increase in CT will be. Another system in need of reform. Robison can say what she likes about there being no need for significant increases but that is no more than getting a dig in before the councils have their say.

[Biffer]

Must have been a decent budget if it took Slick a day to some up with ways to criticise it.

[Tichtheid]

Must have been a decent budget if it took Slick a day to some up with ways to criticise it.

tc must still be "doing his research" before Britsplaining it to us

[Biffer]

Must have been a decent budget if it took Slick a day to some up with ways to criticise it.

tc must still be "doing his research" before Britsplaining it to us

I can't wait for his economic analysis, it's usually such a shining light of critical thought.

[Slick]

Must have been a decent budget if it took Slick a day to some up with ways to criticise it.

tc must still be "doing his research" before Britsplaining it to us

I can't wait for his economic analysis, it's usually such a shining light of critical thought.

Ahh, the two nodding dogs have come out to play

[Tichtheid]

tc must still be "doing his research" before Britsplaining it to us

I can't wait for his economic analysis, it's usually such a shining light of critical thought.

Ahh, the two nodding dogs have come out to play

Let's be honest here, you were against the budget before it even started its first round of research, just because it was the SNP, just as I was with the Tories at Westminster.

[Tichtheid]

BTW, this is a genuine question, I have no idea on these things and I was thinking about this the other day whilst on the bus, but I see from a quick Google that the police tent was put up in Nicola Sturgeon's garden in July 2023.

How long does it take to get a conviction* from the initial seizure of items from a house etc?

Is it a "how long is a piece of string?" thing?


*or even go to court