Poaching Players

[topofthemoon]

Scots in the lead.

https://x.com/rugby365com/status/1861686703372558806

As pointed out by Russ Petty on Twitter, these percentages are the same ones quoted in relation to the 2018 Autumn Tests - and they weren't even accurate when it came to the squads six years ago.

I've never come across rugby365.com before but if this is the quality of their work I'd suggest they are clickbait wanks who are best avoided.

[OomStruisbaai]

Percy went to High School in Cape Town. Although with those girly calves, he’ll never be a proper Saffer anyway.

There are a lot of Namibians in schools in the Western Cape. The Boogie man from rhe Sharks is the latest.

[OomStruisbaai]

Scots in the lead.

https://x.com/rugby365com/status/1861686703372558806

As pointed out by Russ Petty on Twitter, these percentages are the same ones quoted in relation to the 2018 Autumn Tests - and they weren't even accurate when it came to the squads six years ago.

I've never come across rugby365.com before but if this is the quality of their work I'd suggest they are clickbait wanks who are best avoided.

R365 is a decent site, much better then Keo by some distance.

[OomStruisbaai]

Duhan isn’t a project either, his career was saved/made in Edinburgh

You can thank the qouta system for getting him. It's on Biffer.

What's on Biffer?

Habana said a couple of years ago that he didn't consider Duhan as "one that got away" so, meh.

Big Duhan is a very emotional guy who wears his heart on his sleeve. There is an interview from a while ago where he talks about what Scotland rescuing his career means to him. There is still a lot of this idiotic stuff going around about "poaches" but it takes a lot of guts for someone to cross borders to places unknown and try to make a living for themselves and their family.

Obviously I don't know what was said, but in the last Lions tour Faf de Klerk had a go at sledging Duhan, I'm guessing it was to do with not playing for the country of his birth, and the very next play Duhan made contact with Pieter Steph du Toit and du Toit got carried off injured, you could see that van der Merwe was obviously very pissed off with whatever de Klerk said.

Look I follow Duhan vd Merwe since his school days at Outeniqua. I have always rated him. He left the Bulls in his u20 year after missing out on SA U20 selection. That was long before Scotland was even on the horizon.

The fact that he got angry after a Faf sledge say everything.

[Uncle fester]

Duhan isn’t a project either, his career was saved/made in Edinburgh

We're not calling them "projects". We're calling them "poaches".

Duhan isn't a poach either, his career was saved/made in Edinburgh.

So if you can spin a nice story, they are not poaches?
We shouldn't be encouraging Os you know.

[weegie01]

Apologies. The mists of time do strange things at my age
My mate must have scouted him for England while he was at Sale. I can certainly recall a conversation with him telling me he was a good un though was going to call for Scotland.

He was the stand out hooker in that years U20s and England definitely tried to recruit him. So that is entirely possible.

[JM2K6]

We're not calling them "projects". We're calling them "poaches".

Duhan isn't a poach either, his career was saved/made in Edinburgh.

So if you can spin a nice story, they are not poaches?
We shouldn't be encouraging Os you know.

Feyi-Waboso being saved from the crime and grime of Wales and being rescued by the bright lights and sophistication of <checks notes> Exeter clearly makes him the least poachiest poach that was ever poached. Practically saved his life I reckon

[sockwithaticket]

Who was the last player England capped that only qualified by residency?

Was it Solomona? Players like Roots, Heinz or Shields feel fairly poachy, but they qualified by ancestry.

[topofthemoon]

Scots in the lead.

https://x.com/rugby365com/status/1861686703372558806

As pointed out by Russ Petty on Twitter, these percentages are the same ones quoted in relation to the 2018 Autumn Tests - and they weren't even accurate when it came to the squads six years ago.

I've never come across rugby365.com before but if this is the quality of their work I'd suggest they are clickbait wanks who are best avoided.

R365 is a decent site, much better then Keo by some distance.

Sticking up six year old stats to farm engagement isn't a great look. And that's a pretty low bar!

[topofthemoon]

Who was the last player England capped that only qualified by residency?

Was it Solomona? Players like Roots, Heinz or Shields feel fairly poachy, but they qualified by ancestry.

Think that's correct, just after Nathan Hughes. Gary Graham and Louis Lynagh were called up to Six Nations' squads but never played.

According to that other bastion of thorough research, Ruck Rugby, Steve Borthwick has got 4 South Africans lined up to be the next residency qualified players - Benhard Janse van Rensburg, Hanro Liebenberg, Jacques Vermeulen and Tyrone Green. All this despite the fact the first 3 on that list have played capture matches for South Africa u20s and therefore can't qualify for another nation on residency.

[OomStruisbaai]

As pointed out by Russ Petty on Twitter, these percentages are the same ones quoted in relation to the 2018 Autumn Tests - and they weren't even accurate when it came to the squads six years ago.

I've never come across rugby365.com before but if this is the quality of their work I'd suggest they are clickbait wanks who are best avoided.

R365 is a decent site, much better then Keo by some distance.

Sticking up six year old stats to farm engagement isn't a great look. And that's a pretty low bar!

Well the founder of the site was a real rugby man, father of current Stormers coach.

SARugby

Dobson, whose son John is head coach of the DHL Stormers, was involved in rugby for most of his life.

Mr Alexander said: "We mourn the passing of a great man of South African rugby; referee, author, historian, mentor, friend to all, Paul Dobson, a legend in the global refereeing community.

"Paul was recognised for his services to the game by World Rugby in 2012 and was the fount of all knowledge on SA Rugby history in all communities.

“Rugby has lost a giant.

https://rugby365.com/countries/south-af ... ul-dobson/

https://wprugby.com/uncategorized/wprfu ... ul-dobson/

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Who was the last player England capped that only qualified by residency?

Was it Solomona? Players like Roots, Heinz or Shields feel fairly poachy, but they qualified by ancestry.

Think that's correct, just after Nathan Hughes. Gary Graham and Louis Lynagh were called up to Six Nations' squads but never played.

According to that other bastion of thorough research, Ruck Rugby, Steve Borthwick has got 4 South Africans lined up to be the next residency qualified players - Benhard Janse van Rensburg, Hanro Liebenberg, Jacques Vermeulen and Tyrone Green. All this despite the fact the first 3 on that list have played capture matches for South Africa u20s and therefore can't qualify for another nation on residency.

I hope we don't pick them, but I think Tyrone and Benhard both played SA u20s in seasons wherein SA had nominated other sides as their next best senior representative side, either South Africa 'A' or Junior Springboks

[sockwithaticket]

Who was the last player England capped that only qualified by residency?

Was it Solomona? Players like Roots, Heinz or Shields feel fairly poachy, but they qualified by ancestry.

Think that's correct, just after Nathan Hughes. Gary Graham and Louis Lynagh were called up to Six Nations' squads but never played.

According to that other bastion of thorough research, Ruck Rugby, Steve Borthwick has got 4 South Africans lined up to be the next residency qualified players - Benhard Janse van Rensburg, Hanro Liebenberg, Jacques Vermeulen and Tyrone Green. All this despite the fact the first 3 on that list have played capture matches for South Africa u20s and therefore can't qualify for another nation on residency.

Depending on when they played for U20s they might not be captured, they changed the rules a little while ago now on age group sides being designated second teams capable of capturing, though I can't recall exactly when. Plus a capture team had to be playing another capture team in order for it to tie them in.

Not that I'm particularly angling for them to be available to England, mind. Fine players, but I don't think we particularly need them and I've never really liked residency qualification for adults who are only here to pursue their profession.

[JM2K6]

Who was the last player England capped that only qualified by residency?

Was it Solomona? Players like Roots, Heinz or Shields feel fairly poachy, but they qualified by ancestry.

Think that's correct, just after Nathan Hughes. Gary Graham and Louis Lynagh were called up to Six Nations' squads but never played.

According to that other bastion of thorough research, Ruck Rugby, Steve Borthwick has got 4 South Africans lined up to be the next residency qualified players - Benhard Janse van Rensburg, Hanro Liebenberg, Jacques Vermeulen and Tyrone Green. All this despite the fact the first 3 on that list have played capture matches for South Africa u20s and therefore can't qualify for another nation on residency.

Louis Lynagh was playing minis rugby in Richmond, which goes to show how silly the poaching conversations can get...

[Uncle fester]

Duhan isn't a poach either, his career was saved/made in Edinburgh.

So if you can spin a nice story, they are not poaches?
We shouldn't be encouraging Os you know.

Feyi-Waboso being saved from the crime and grime of Wales and being rescued by the bright lights and sophistication of <checks notes> Exeter clearly makes him the least poachiest poach that was ever poached. Practically saved his life I reckon

I was hoping for a very detailed breakdown on how Llandaff is actually more English than Yorkshire pudding.

[JM2K6]

So if you can spin a nice story, they are not poaches?
We shouldn't be encouraging Os you know.

Feyi-Waboso being saved from the crime and grime of Wales and being rescued by the bright lights and sophistication of <checks notes> Exeter clearly makes him the least poachiest poach that was ever poached. Practically saved his life I reckon

I was hoping for a very detailed breakdown on how Llandaff is actually more English than Yorkshire pudding.

Can anyone really claim that Wales isn't just part of England these days?

(Note: I will pretend I never said this as soon as it useful to do so)

[Guy Smiley]

Feyi-Waboso being saved from the crime and grime of Wales and being rescued by the bright lights and sophistication of <checks notes> Exeter clearly makes him the least poachiest poach that was ever poached. Practically saved his life I reckon

I was hoping for a very detailed breakdown on how Llandaff is actually more English than Yorkshire pudding.

Can anyone really claim that Wales isn't just part of England these days?

(Note: I will pretend I never said this as soon as it useful to do so)

Isn't Henry, from the old Bored, the qualifying metric for this?

[JM2K6]

I was hoping for a very detailed breakdown on how Llandaff is actually more English than Yorkshire pudding.

Can anyone really claim that Wales isn't just part of England these days?

(Note: I will pretend I never said this as soon as it useful to do so)

Isn't Henry, from the old Bored, the qualifying metric for this?

He's a gun-totin' pig-botherin' Trump-hollerin' yee-haw red-white-and-blue-blood these days. It's sad, but that's what leaving London does to a man from the valleys reasonably close to a county that's near Wales

[Guy Smiley]

Good grief, we're living in the End Times.

[Uncle fester]

Feyi-Waboso being saved from the crime and grime of Wales and being rescued by the bright lights and sophistication of <checks notes> Exeter clearly makes him the least poachiest poach that was ever poached. Practically saved his life I reckon

I was hoping for a very detailed breakdown on how Llandaff is actually more English than Yorkshire pudding.

Can anyone really claim that Wales isn't just part of England these days?

(Note: I will pretend I never said this as soon as it useful to do so)

You're short of expectations by about 15,000 words.

[JM2K6]

I was hoping for a very detailed breakdown on how Llandaff is actually more English than Yorkshire pudding.

Can anyone really claim that Wales isn't just part of England these days?

(Note: I will pretend I never said this as soon as it useful to do so)

You're short of expectations by about 15,000 words.

No one has ever asked me to say more before and it's very unsettling

[Sandstorm]

[Slick]

Can anyone really claim that Wales isn't just part of England these days?

(Note: I will pretend I never said this as soon as it useful to do so)

Isn't Henry, from the old Bored, the qualifying metric for this?

He's a gun-totin' pig-botherin' Trump-hollerin' yee-haw red-white-and-blue-blood these days. It's sad, but that's what leaving London does to a man from the valleys reasonably close to a county that's near Wales

this is wonderful to hear

[Uncle fester]

Can anyone really claim that Wales isn't just part of England these days?

(Note: I will pretend I never said this as soon as it useful to do so)

You're short of expectations by about 15,000 words.

No one has ever asked me to say more before and it's very unsettling

You know that Jack Nicholson gif from The Departed? That's what's playing right now.

[topofthemoon]

Who was the last player England capped that only qualified by residency?

Was it Solomona? Players like Roots, Heinz or Shields feel fairly poachy, but they qualified by ancestry.

Think that's correct, just after Nathan Hughes. Gary Graham and Louis Lynagh were called up to Six Nations' squads but never played.

According to that other bastion of thorough research, Ruck Rugby, Steve Borthwick has got 4 South Africans lined up to be the next residency qualified players - Benhard Janse van Rensburg, Hanro Liebenberg, Jacques Vermeulen and Tyrone Green. All this despite the fact the first 3 on that list have played capture matches for South Africa u20s and therefore can't qualify for another nation on residency.

I hope we don't pick them, but I think Tyrone and Benhard both played SA u20s in seasons wherein SA had nominated other sides as their next best senior representative side, either South Africa 'A' or Junior Springboks

Green played u20s in 2018 which was the first year u20s could no longer be nominated as Next Senior National Representative Teams - but the other three have all played capture matches.

Van Rensburg played in 2016 when South Africa's NSNRT was officially notified as Junior Springboks but the Junior Springboks are the u20s. The player himself has acknowledged he played for a capture team in 2016 but seems to have been given the mistaken impression that the specific game wasn't a capture match - but it was.

[topofthemoon]

Who was the last player England capped that only qualified by residency?

Was it Solomona? Players like Roots, Heinz or Shields feel fairly poachy, but they qualified by ancestry.

Think that's correct, just after Nathan Hughes. Gary Graham and Louis Lynagh were called up to Six Nations' squads but never played.

According to that other bastion of thorough research, Ruck Rugby, Steve Borthwick has got 4 South Africans lined up to be the next residency qualified players - Benhard Janse van Rensburg, Hanro Liebenberg, Jacques Vermeulen and Tyrone Green. All this despite the fact the first 3 on that list have played capture matches for South Africa u20s and therefore can't qualify for another nation on residency.

Depending on when they played for U20s they might not be captured, they changed the rules a little while ago now on age group sides being designated second teams capable of capturing, though I can't recall exactly when. Plus a capture team had to be playing another capture team in order for it to tie them in.

Not that I'm particularly angling for them to be available to England, mind. Fine players, but I don't think we particularly need them and I've never really liked residency qualification for adults who are only here to pursue their profession.

2003 - 2014: age grade sides could be nominated as capture teams but only matches where both sides were nominated captured players.

2015 - 2017: age grade sides could be nominated and any game they played in the WR u20 Championship, WR u20 Trophy or u20 Six Nations were capture matches, no matter the status of their opponents.

2018 onwards: age grade sides cannot be nominated.

Vermeulen played u20s Championship in 2014 (no capture matches played) and 2015 (all capture matches). He was in the press today seemingly a bit annoyed that he is tied to SA but some players who played u20s in earlier years have not been.

Liebenberg played u20s Championship in 2015 (all capture matches).

Van Rensburg played u20s Championship in 2016 (all capture matches).

Green played u20s Championship in 2018 (no capture matches).

[JM2K6]

You're short of expectations by about 15,000 words.

No one has ever asked me to say more before and it's very unsettling

You know that Jack Nicholson gif from The Departed? That's what's playing right now.

Have you ever considered upgrading to a browser that supports images?

[bok_viking]

I do not know why some people are so hung up on "poached" players, I would only considered a player poached if that player was a definite for the Boks and he got taken from under our noses, which os not the case for 99% of the players. ( Poaching is the Sharks buying up every Springbok they can from other local teams and throwing money at them to join. ) If they end up staying there long enough to qualify for the national team, then good for them. If the Springboks lose a potential player to another country, then it is our fault for not picking him in the first place. You cannot expect most players to hang around forever with the slim hope they might get picked for the Springboks one day when you have the opportunity to play international rugby for someone else. In the end of the day, the money you get when playing for an international team instead of just a club/franchise makes it worth it for a lot of players to change flag when an opportunity comes along and when they feel they do not have a realistic chance to play for the Boks. Not to mention the money opportunities that come along for international players after they hang up their boots.

There are only so many professional positions available in SA and considering that we have a large amount of players coming through the provincial school/varsity structures every year it is only logical that many of those players will search for options elsewhere.

At u18 Craven week, about 50% of the players are signed up by local provinces, so there are another 50% that will look elsewhere if they want to make a career out of rugby. Of the 50% that are signed up locally, quite a few will move on after a few years as well when they do not get into the senior teams quick enough. Like someone else said, this is a professional sport and you play where you can maximize your potential income

[OomStruisbaai]

I do not know why some people are so hung up on "poached" players, I would only considered a player poached if that player was a definite for the Boks and he got taken from under our noses, which os not the case for 99% of the players. ( Poaching is the Sharks buying up every Springbok they can from other local teams and throwing money at them to join. ) If they end up staying there long enough to qualify for the national team, then good for them. If the Springboks lose a potential player to another country, then it is our fault for not picking him in the first place. You cannot expect most players to hang around forever with the slim hope they might get picked for the Springboks one day when you have the opportunity to play international rugby for someone else. In the end of the day, the money you get when playing for an international team instead of just a club/franchise makes it worth it for a lot of players to change flag when an opportunity comes along and when they feel they do not have a realistic chance to play for the Boks. Not to mention the money opportunities that come along for international players after they hang up their boots.

There are only so many professional positions available in SA and considering that we have a large amount of players coming through the provincial school/varsity structures every year it is only logical that many of those players will search for options elsewhere.

At u18 Craven week, about 50% of the players are signed up by local provinces, so there are another 50% that will look elsewhere if they want to make a career out of rugby. Of the 50% that are signed up locally, quite a few will move on after a few years as well when they do not get into the senior teams quick enough. Like someone else said, this is a professional sport and you play where you can maximize your potential income

I dont think any Saffer poster on the board criticize poaching. Its the Scots that get all precious about it. I like watching the likes of Duhan and Schoeeeeee performing for them. In fact I sort of support them.

[Mr Bungle]

Cool, once again we have to say that foreign born is a terrible metric.

For example, Sam Underhill was born in the US, but he moved back to England aged 1.

Even if they don't move back while young, players born abroad to patriotic parents from, say, Ireland can still be raised to think of themselves as Irish and want to play for Ireland. That player is not poached if they go on to do so.

Look, it's fun to poke at the Scots, this is just a bad way to do it.

And the three Kiwis born in Aus to Kiwi parents one of whom’s father represented NZ in League, but played for Canberra Raiders. Stupid lists likely made by a Saffer.

[weegie01]

I dont think any Saffer poster on the board criticize poaching. Its the Scots that get all precious about it. I like watching the likes of Duhan and Schoeeeeee performing for them. In fact I sort of support them.

Most of us could not care less. If they are qualified and want to play, that's fine.

We do get fed up of the constant and tedious trolling on this subject, and do occasionally react.

It does beg the question why you started this thread if it is such a non issue to you.

[Yr Alban]

I dont think any Saffer poster on the board criticize poaching. Its the Scots that get all precious about it. I like watching the likes of Duhan and Schoeeeeee performing for them. In fact I sort of support them.

Most of us could not care less. If they are qualified and want to play, that's fine.

We do get fed up of the constant and tedious trolling on this subject, and do occasionally react.

It does beg the question why you started this thread if it is such a non issue to you.

Agreed.

I don’t much care how you qualified to play for Scotland, as long as you give your all when you pull on the shirt. Budge Pountney had literally the most tenuous possible qualification (one grandparent born in the Channel Islands, which is effectively a wild card) and yet he was so fearsomely committed to the cause that no-one cared. On the other side of the coin you have players who were capped as soon as they stepped off the plane, and whose commitment was always suspect (Brendan Laney, Dan Parks, Blade Thomson).

[OomStruisbaai]

I dont think any Saffer poster on the board criticize poaching. Its the Scots that get all precious about it. I like watching the likes of Duhan and Schoeeeeee performing for them. In fact I sort of support them.

Most of us could not care less. If they are qualified and want to play, that's fine.

We do get fed up of the constant and tedious trolling on this subject, and do occasionally react.

It does beg the question why you started this thread if it is such a non issue to you.

I start many threads and try to add value to the board. I find the stats interesting as a bonus I caught Biffer on the line which is excellent.

[Guy Smiley]

I start many threads and try to add value to the board.

Don't give up your day job.

[OomStruisbaai]

I start many threads and try to add value to the board.

Don't give up your day job.

Sure, I am a pensioner, oxygen thief.

[Slick]

I dont think any Saffer poster on the board criticize poaching. Its the Scots that get all precious about it. I like watching the likes of Duhan and Schoeeeeee performing for them. In fact I sort of support them.

Most of us could not care less. If they are qualified and want to play, that's fine.

We do get fed up of the constant and tedious trolling on this subject, and do occasionally react.

It does beg the question why you started this thread if it is such a non issue to you.

that last sentence should have been the signal to just graciously retreat, Oom.

But we know we have to constantly sooth the fragile Saffer ego. Perhaps if all non Saffers just started every post with “South Africa are the greatest and Percy definitely isn’t a Namibian” we could just move on

[Guy Smiley]