Bledisloe II: All Blacks vs Wallabies: MATCH THREAD: Sunday 18th Oct

[Ted.]

If Perenara didn't act like a selfish prick by thinking he's a prop, Sotutu would not have needed to act as the 9 and botch the pass. If that last pass was executed well the AB's would have had the game in the bag.

Where did you learn your rugby, Joe? No matter, he wouldn't have needed to act like a prop if someone was in the pocket to take a pass.
I'd have also have expected Sotutu to take the ball up as well, instead of passing it. Or at least have flicked it up to a forward who was not there, so perhaps they needed to straighten towards the posts instead of going wide. Mind, there was space out there. Decisions, decisions!

[Tussock]

While I agree with philosophy of not chopping & changing teams, the issue I have is that the gameplan before the match seemed to be use Jordies height and kick to him. I don't think this happened once.

Onky changes I would make, would be move Jordie to fullback (if BB unavailable), bring in Clarke (possibly Reece) and McKenzie to bench.

I'd have Jordan on the bench ahead of DMac.

So would I, but think it's a little early.

[Ted.]

While I agree with philosophy of not chopping & changing teams, the issue I have is that the gameplan before the match seemed to be use Jordies height and kick to him. I don't think this happened once.

Onky changes I would make, would be move Jordie to fullback (if BB unavailable), bring in Clarke (possibly Reece) and McKenzie to bench.

I'd have Jordan on the bench ahead of DMac.

So would I, but think it's a little early.

I think the timing is fine.

[average joe]

If Perenara didn't act like a selfish prick by thinking he's a prop, Sotutu would not have needed to act as the 9 and botch the pass. If that last pass was executed well the AB's would have had the game in the bag.

Where did you learn your rugby, Joe? No matter, he wouldn't have needed to act like a prop if someone was in the pocket to take a pass.
I'd have also have expected Sotutu to take the ball up as well, instead of passing it. Or at least have flicked it up to a forward who was not there, so perhaps they needed to straighten towards the posts instead of going wide. Mind, there was space out there. Decisions, decisions!

He had Cane right there calling for the ball, he's a 9, looks up and sees three opposition defenders between him and the white line and decided he'll be the hero of the day. But yes, would've, could've, should've. Hindsight is a bitch.

[Grandpa]

Bring back Buck!

Or at least his mentality... :)

[Not_Couch]

If Perenara didn't act like a selfish prick by thinking he's a prop, Sotutu would not have needed to act as the 9 and botch the pass. If that last pass was executed well the AB's would have had the game in the bag.

I was at the game, the rain was so bad we could barely see it in the stands, imagine what it's like for the players? You can't trust a pass ever in that situation, you have to go one of the ruck and make the hard yards, our forwards trying to play backs when they should be in the mud punching it home, wtf is Sam Cane doing in the backline for anyway? Get your stupid ass in the ruck where you belong!

[Turbster]

How many times must it be said? Tests are won up front before they are won in the backs. Bugger all of the pack really stood up last week, but if you watch the match again you will see hesitancy and uncertainty a few times, offensively and defensively, but specially the latter. It was almost as if their position on 'D' was more important than their role. It's generally 'coach-itis,' too many voices and not enough clarity. They will be even more challenged this week if Sam W is out, but it may mean Paddy will step up. Taylor and Frizzell will also want to impose themselves more.
Re the backline: Jordie is a fullback, not a winger's arse, and D Mac was appalling in making the same error under the high ball 3 times in 20 minutes, so Jordie goes to 15, end of! Reiko can do some laps and ALB and Goody combine again. Bridge was quite good, so Clarke and Bridge to start, and the remainder as is. Normally I would want to start the same XV, but D Mac and Reiko 'weren't at the races.'

[Carter's Choice]

How many times must it be said? Tests are won up front before they are won in the backs. Bugger all of the pack really stood up last week, but if you watch the match again you will see hesitancy and uncertainty a few times, offensively and defensively, but specially the latter. It was almost as if their position on 'D' was more important than their role. It's generally 'coach-itis,' too many voices and not enough clarity. They will be even more challenged this week if Sam W is out, but it may mean Paddy will step up. Taylor and Frizzell will also want to impose themselves

I agree with this 100% The players were clearly scared to over-commit to the breakdown and to the clean out because they had obviously been coached to retain the shape and structure of their pods.

[Ellafan]

, there was no clear separation,

CC please amend the thread title to "Kiwi bled 2" thread or some such. Thanks.

[average joe]

If Perenara didn't act like a selfish prick by thinking he's a prop, Sotutu would not have needed to act as the 9 and botch the pass. If that last pass was executed well the AB's would have had the game in the bag.

I was at the game, the rain was so bad we could barely see it in the stands, imagine what it's like for the players? You can't trust a pass ever in that situation, you have to go one of the ruck and make the hard yards, our forwards trying to play backs when they should be in the mud punching it home, wtf is Sam Cane doing in the backline for anyway? Get your stupid ass in the ruck where you belong!

If Perenara cant pass a ball in the rain by now he has no business being in the AB squad. I see a lot of Kiwi posters blaming the new coach and selections for last week but personally I think your players let you down.

[Not_Couch]

If Perenara didn't act like a selfish prick by thinking he's a prop, Sotutu would not have needed to act as the 9 and botch the pass. If that last pass was executed well the AB's would have had the game in the bag.

I was at the game, the rain was so bad we could barely see it in the stands, imagine what it's like for the players? You can't trust a pass ever in that situation, you have to go one of the ruck and make the hard yards, our forwards trying to play backs when they should be in the mud punching it home, wtf is Sam Cane doing in the backline for anyway? Get your stupid ass in the ruck where you belong!

If Perenara cant pass a ball in the rain by now he has no business being in the AB squad. I see a lot of Kiwi posters blaming the new coach and selections for last week but personally I think your players let you down.

Are you dumb? The situation called for a forward Rumble up front not a fancy backline move.

[Monkey Magic]

Bridge gone for 6 months with a pec injury according to newshub. Jordan recalled to squad after being released to the makos

Whitelock struggling with concussion.

[Jb1981]

That’s a real shame for Bridge but exciting that we could see Jordan getting a debut. I wonder if Foster will be more likely to stick with the others (Rieko at 13, Jordie on the wing) in the interest of minimising change.

[Carter's Choice]

6 months out with a training injury. That could be Bridge's test career? What terrible luck.

[Steve]

Blessing , Disguise etc

[Monkey Magic]

That’s a real shame for Bridge but exciting that we could see Jordan getting a debut. I wonder if Foster will be more likely to stick with the others (Rieko at 13, Jordie on the wing) in the interest of minimising change.

Reckon it will be Ioane at centre, it sure about wing.

Can't see them parachuting Jordan into starting wing but not sure starting Clarke and Reece leaves a good balance. If BB fit he comes in, jordie stays wing and dmac on the bench? Or start Clarke and have Reece on the bench?

Its all a bit unbalanced

[Kiwias]

6 months out with a training injury. That could be Bridge's test career? What terrible luck.

Sad for the guy and hoping he stages a rapid and complete recovery.

[Steve]

10.Barrett
11.Clarke
12.Laumape
13.Goodhue
14.Jordan
15.Barrett

Hook it into my veins.

Need Ennor fit soon. Ennor and Jordan jut have "it"

Laumape scores tries for fun.


David Havili is hard done by not to be there. Hes all class

[Wild Beef]

Where would Ennor go on that backline?

[Gumboot]

Shit luck for Bridge. Not sure if Beauden's fit, but wouldn't mind seeing this backline:

9 Smith
10 Mo'unga
11 Clarke
12 Lienert-Brown
13 Ioane
14 J Barrett
15 B Barrett/McKenzie

20 Perenara
21 Goodhue
22 McKenzie/B Barrett

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

J Baz isn't a winger.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

10.Barrett
11.Clarke
12.Laumape
13.Goodhue
14.Jordan
15.Barrett

Hook it into my veins.

Need Ennor fit soon. Ennor and Jordan jut have "it"

Laumape scores tries for fun.


David Havili is hard done by not to be there. Hes all class

Ooh imagine the cohesion of this backline with 5/6 new starters.

Would run like a well oiled machine.

[Wild Beef]

J Baz isn't a winger.

He could be. He’s just not what New Zealanders are used to in their wingers.

[Gumboot]

J Baz isn't a winger.

He could be. He’s just not what New Zealanders are used to in their wingers.

He's clearly a better fullback, but I thought he had a pretty decent game in Wgtn. What are our other options at 14? I wouldn't mind Reece, but Jordan on debut in a crucial Bled? Not so much.

[Kiwias]

J Baz isn't a winger.

He could be. He’s just not what New Zealanders are used to in their wingers.

He's clearly a better fullback, but I thought he had a pretty decent game in Wgtn. What are our other options at 14? I wouldn't mind Reece, but Jordan on debut in a crucial Bled? Not so much.

Reece is the clear candidate.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

J Baz isn't a winger.

He could be. He’s just not what New Zealanders are used to in their wingers.

True. Kiwis aren't used to slow All Black wingers..

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

He could be. He’s just not what New Zealanders are used to in their wingers.

He's clearly a better fullback, but I thought he had a pretty decent game in Wgtn. What are our other options at 14? I wouldn't mind Reece, but Jordan on debut in a crucial Bled? Not so much.

Reece is the clear candidate.

Reece has been nothing short of excellent in his test appearances to date.

Why wouldn't he get a run?

[Gumboot]

He could be. He’s just not what New Zealanders are used to in their wingers.

He's clearly a better fullback, but I thought he had a pretty decent game in Wgtn. What are our other options at 14? I wouldn't mind Reece, but Jordan on debut in a crucial Bled? Not so much.

Reece is the clear candidate.

With Jordie to fullback, or to the bench?

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

6 months out with a training injury. That could be Bridge's test career? What terrible luck.

Seems a bit OTT. Bridge has been great in his test career to date.

I'm sure he'll bounce back.

He has that deceptive Ungainly White Guy look about him, but in actual fact he's a classy winger.

[Carter's Choice]

Yep Reece has never let down the AB's, and his for this year at SR level was also top shelf. Starting JB over Reece at 14 in Welly was probably Foster's only real selection shocker.

[Gumboot]

J Baz isn't a winger.

He could be. He’s just not what New Zealanders are used to in their wingers.

True. Kiwis aren't used to slow All Black wingers..

Jordie Slowsteps?

[Gumboot]

Yep Reece has never let down the AB's, and his for this year at SR level was also top shelf. Starting JB over Reece at 14 in Welly was probably Foster's only real selection shocker.

Didn't you originally pick him there as well?

[Carter's Choice]

6 months out with a training injury. That could be Bridge's test career? What terrible luck.

Seems a bit OTT. Bridge has been great in his test career to date.

I'm sure he'll bounce back.

He has that deceptive Ungainly White Guy look about him, but in actual fact he's a classy winger.

I hope so. His try-assist to Aaron Smith was probably our most exciting attacking moment in the previous test (aside from Rieko's no-try).

[Carter's Choice]

Yep Reece has never let down the AB's, and his for this year at SR level was also top shelf. Starting JB over Reece at 14 in Welly was probably Foster's only real selection shocker.

Didn't you originally pick him there as well?

That was the team I predicted Foster would pick, and I got it 100% aside from the injuries.

[Gumboot]

Yep Reece has never let down the AB's, and his for this year at SR level was also top shelf. Starting JB over Reece at 14 in Welly was probably Foster's only real selection shocker.

Didn't you originally pick him there as well?

That was the team I predicted Foster would pick, and I got it 100% aside from the injuries.

Did you predict it would be a selection blunder as well?

[Carter's Choice]

Didn't you originally pick him there as well?

That was the team I predicted Foster would pick, and I got it 100% aside from the injuries.

Did you predict it would be a selection blunder as well?

I didn't comment on that, I just predicted the team that Foster would select. The reality is that Reece is a specialist right winger, JB isn't.

[Auckman]

How many times must it be said? Tests are won up front before they are won in the backs. Bugger all of the pack really stood up last week, but if you watch the match again you will see hesitancy and uncertainty a few times, offensively and defensively, but specially the latter. It was almost as if their position on 'D' was more important than their role. It's generally 'coach-itis,' too many voices and not enough clarity. They will be even more challenged this week if Sam W is out, but it may mean Paddy will step up. Taylor and Frizzell will also want to impose themselves more.
Re the backline: Jordie is a fullback, not a winger's arse, and D Mac was appalling in making the same error under the high ball 3 times in 20 minutes, so Jordie goes to 15, end of! Reiko can do some laps and ALB and Goody combine again. Bridge was quite good, so Clarke and Bridge to start, and the remainder as is. Normally I would want to start the same XV, but D Mac and Reiko 'weren't at the races.'

Whoever fluffed up that final lineout really annoyed me. I think it was Vaai but not sure.

[Kiwias]

He's clearly a better fullback, but I thought he had a pretty decent game in Wgtn. What are our other options at 14? I wouldn't mind Reece, but Jordan on debut in a crucial Bled? Not so much.

Reece is the clear candidate.

With Jordie to fullback, or to the bench?

If BB is fit, he goes to 15; if not, JB, with Jordan on bench.

[Kiwias]

6 months out with a training injury. That could be Bridge's test career? What terrible luck.

Seems a bit OTT. Bridge has been great in his test career to date.

I'm sure he'll bounce back.

He has that deceptive Ungainly White Guy look about him, but in actual fact he's a classy winger.

[Gumboot]

Hope Whitelock's fit - if so the pack will probably stay much the same. If not, the thought of Vaa'i starting alongside Patrick the passenger is a real concern. Would love Coles to start, but I guess the risk of his dodgy calf blowing out in the first 5 minutes is just too great. And if Sotutu doesn't start, I hope he gets a lot more time off the bench.