Bledisloe II: All Blacks vs Wallabies: MATCH THREAD: Sunday 18th Oct

[Auckman]

Yeah I'd prefer a specialist winger for the injured Bridge. Jordie Barrett either goes to fullback or the bench. I'm fine with BB on the bench if his brother has to start. Probably has to be Reece.

[Carter's Choice]

The team I predict that Ian Foster will select for Sunday's test - assuming that Sam Whitelock is out with concussion;

15. Beaudan Barrett
14. Jordie Barrett
13. Anton Lienart-Brown
12. Jack Goodhue
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith

8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Sam Cane
6. Ardie Savea
5. Tupou Vaa'i
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Dane Coles
17. Karl Tu'inukuafe
18. Nepo Laulala
19. Mitchell Dunshea
20. Akira Ioane
21. TJ Perenara
22. Damien McKenzie
23. Rieko Ioane

[Gumboot]

Does that side differ much from the one you'd like to see picked, AC?

I don't imagine Foster will agree, but this would be my team:

15 B Barrett/McKenzie
14 J Barrett
13 Ioane
12 ALB
11 Clarke
10 Mo'unga
9 Smith

8 Savea
7 Cane
6 Frizell
5 Vaa'i
4 Whitelock/Tuipulotu
3 Tuungafasi
2 Coles
1 Moody

16 Taylor
17 Tu'inukuafe
18 Laulala/Lomax
19 Tuipulotu/Grace
20 Sotutu
21 Perenara
22 Goodhue
23 McKenzie/Reece

[Carter's Choice]

Does that side differ much from the one you'd like to see picked, AC?

My team if I as selecting the squad and match day XXIII;

15. David Havili
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Reiko Ioane
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith

8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Ardie Savea
6. Shannon Frizell
5. Mitchell Dunshea
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungfasi
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Dane Coles
17. Nepo Laulala
18. Karl Tu'inukuafe
19. Manaaki Selby-Rickett
20. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beaudan Barrett
23. Caleb Clarke

[Flockwitt]

Dropping Cane altogether AC? Tough call...

[Carter's Choice]

Dropping Cane altogether AC? Tough call...

He hasn't been our best 7 for two years, and he offers no versatility off the bench.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Dropping Cane altogether AC? Tough call...

He hasn't been our best 7 for two years, and he offers no versatility off the bench.

Dropping the captain and the best All Black player on the field last week seems harsh in the extreme.

25 tackles!

[Carter's Choice]

Dropping Cane altogether AC? Tough call...

He hasn't been our best 7 for two years, and he offers no versatility off the bench.

Dropping the captain and the best All Black player on the field last week seems harsh in the extreme.

25 tackles!

Sure he played well on Sunday, but over the past 24 months Ardie Savea has outplayed him at 7. By a margin. Sam Cane is a mute with zero ability to influence the referee, and the fact that he's our captain is an actual joke, minus the humor.

[Guy Smiley]

J Baz isn't a winger.

He could be. He’s just not what New Zealanders are used to in their wingers.

True. Kiwis aren't used to slow All Black wingers..

We are used to our wingers being wingers, for a start... until we move them into the centre field.

Jordie picked at wing is a farce.

[Gumboot]

He hasn't been our best 7 for two years, and he offers no versatility off the bench.

Dropping the captain and the best All Black player on the field last week seems harsh in the extreme.

25 tackles!

Sure he played well on Sunday, but over the past 24 months Ardie Savea has outplayed him at 7. By a margin. Sam Cane is a mute with zero ability to influence the referee, and the fact that he's our captain is an actual joke, minus the humor.

Who's your captain in the side you posted earlier, with both Cane and Whitelock out?

[Carter's Choice]

Dropping the captain and the best All Black player on the field last week seems harsh in the extreme.

25 tackles!

Sure he played well on Sunday, but over the past 24 months Ardie Savea has outplayed him at 7. By a margin. Sam Cane is a mute with zero ability to influence the referee, and the fact that he's our captain is an actual joke, minus the humor.

Who's your captain in the side you posted earlier, with both Cane and Whitelock out?

Well there is the Blues captain PT or Crusaders SR Aotearoa winning captain Codie Taylor in the side. Hurricanes captain TJP would also be coming off the bench.

More broadly, I've been pretty consistent that Whitelock would have been my first choice for permanent captain. Sam Cane is not our best 7, so should never have been made captain.

[Grandpa]

Does that side differ much from the one you'd like to see picked, AC?

My team if I as selecting the squad and match day XXIII;

15. David Havili
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith

8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Ardie Savea
6. Papilii
5. Mitchell Dunshea
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungfasi
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Dane Coles
17. Nepo Laulala
18. Karl Tu'inukuafe
19. Manaaki Selby-Rickett
20. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beaudan Barrett
23. Will Jordan

Not far off the side I would pick... David Havilli is a smart footballer. And I would want Frizzell to show he can give the All Blacks a bit of the Kanio mongrel it's been missing... Only Same Cane was knocking players backwards last week... I wonder if Papilii might do that...

[Ymx]

When’s the team announcement?

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Does that side differ much from the one you'd like to see picked, AC?

My team if I as selecting the squad and match day XXIII;

15. David Havili
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith

8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Ardie Savea
6. Papilii
5. Mitchell Dunshea
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungfasi
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Dane Coles
17. Nepo Laulala
18. Karl Tu'inukuafe
19. Manaaki Selby-Rickett
20. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beaudan Barrett
23. Will Jordan

Not far off the side I would pick... David Havilli is a smart footballer. And I would want Frizzell to show he can give the All Blacks a bit of the Kanio mongrel it's been missing... Only Same Cane was knocking players backwards last week... I wonder if Papilii might do that...

Same Cane. Very apt. He's always the Same Cane in All Blacks tests - just burying people.

He should have the nickname The Undertaker.

[Ted.]

How many times must it be said? Tests are won up front before they are won in the backs. Bugger all of the pack really stood up last week, but if you watch the match again you will see hesitancy and uncertainty a few times, offensively and defensively, but specially the latter. It was almost as if their position on 'D' was more important than their role. It's generally 'coach-itis,' too many voices and not enough clarity. They will be even more challenged this week if Sam W is out, but it may mean Paddy will step up. Taylor and Frizzell will also want to impose themselves more.
Re the backline: Jordie is a fullback, not a winger's arse, and D Mac was appalling in making the same error under the high ball 3 times in 20 minutes, so Jordie goes to 15, end of! Reiko can do some laps and ALB and Goody combine again. Bridge was quite good, so Clarke and Bridge to start, and the remainder as is. Normally I would want to start the same XV, but D Mac and Reiko 'weren't at the races.'

Whoever fluffed up that final lineout really annoyed me. I think it was Vaai but not sure.

Spot on, except Bridge is now out, so maybe Reiko on the wing, or Jordan who I think is ready for a crack. Though apart from a couple of fumbles/positioning errors, I really liked the look of Clarke. Is starting both Jordan and Clarke on the wings too green?

[Dan54]

How many times must it be said? Tests are won up front before they are won in the backs. Bugger all of the pack really stood up last week, but if you watch the match again you will see hesitancy and uncertainty a few times, offensively and defensively, but specially the latter. It was almost as if their position on 'D' was more important than their role. It's generally 'coach-itis,' too many voices and not enough clarity. They will be even more challenged this week if Sam W is out, but it may mean Paddy will step up. Taylor and Frizzell will also want to impose themselves more.
Re the backline: Jordie is a fullback, not a winger's arse, and D Mac was appalling in making the same error under the high ball 3 times in 20 minutes, so Jordie goes to 15, end of! Reiko can do some laps and ALB and Goody combine again. Bridge was quite good, so Clarke and Bridge to start, and the remainder as is. Normally I would want to start the same XV, but D Mac and Reiko 'weren't at the races.'

Whoever fluffed up that final lineout really annoyed me. I think it was Vaai but not sure.

No was actually Sam Whitelock who f***ed the last lineout, must be about first lineout I have ever seen him bulls up, well any important one anyway. I think we will see BB at 15 someone has to try and take some options away from RM so he not such a clear target for Wallaby loosies, would probably go Jordan and Clarke on wings as Bridge is out (or Reiko) , but suspect Jordie will be on one, even to keep the Wallabies defence wide because they will be waiting for cross kicks.
If I was piscking JB would probably be 15 though , and BB off bench which is what I said last week, I would perhaps give RM another chance after last week when he was nor his best.

[Guy Smiley]

I’d swap A Smith for TJ at 9. Smith is starting to coast on past glories. He produces a good game and everyone goes gaga over his apparent mastery but his shit game is becoming more and more frequent. Highlighting any perceived weakness in Mounga’s game while ignoring Smith’s woeful delivery is weak.

[Carter's Choice]

I’d swap A Smith for TJ at 9. Smith is starting to coast on past glories. He produces a good game and everyone goes gaga over his apparent mastery but his shit game is becoming more and more frequent. Highlighting any perceived weakness in Mounga’s game while ignoring Smith’s woeful delivery is weak.

This is a good call. Smith's passing was all over the place last Sunday, and his kicking game handed possession and territory to the Wallabies time and time again. From memory his first three passes were all shockers, and that set the tone for the rest of the match.

[Ted.]

My team if I as selecting the squad and match day XXIII;

15. David Havili
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith

8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Ardie Savea
6. Papilii
5. Mitchell Dunshea
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungfasi
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Dane Coles
17. Nepo Laulala
18. Karl Tu'inukuafe
19. Manaaki Selby-Rickett
20. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beaudan Barrett
23. Will Jordan

Not far off the side I would pick... David Havilli is a smart footballer. And I would want Frizzell to show he can give the All Blacks a bit of the Kanio mongrel it's been missing... Only Same Cane was knocking players backwards last week... I wonder if Papilii might do that...

Same Cane. Very apt. He's always the Same Cane in All Blacks tests - just burying people.

He should have the nickname The Undertaker.

Sam Cane should be playing 6 then. He's effectively in that role already, except he's cluttering up the open side of the scrum, when he should be operating from the blindside.

[Enzedder]

6 months out with a training injury. That could be Bridge's test career? What terrible luck.

Seems a bit OTT. Bridge has been great in his test career to date.

I'm sure he'll bounce back.

He has that deceptive Ungainly White Guy look about him, but in actual fact he's a classy winger.

I hope so. His try-assist to Aaron Smith was probably our most exciting attacking moment in the previous test (aside from Rieko's no-try).

and the first try which started inside our 22

[Guy Smiley]

Seems a bit OTT. Bridge has been great in his test career to date.

I'm sure he'll bounce back.

He has that deceptive Ungainly White Guy look about him, but in actual fact he's a classy winger.

I hope so. His try-assist to Aaron Smith was probably our most exciting attacking moment in the previous test (aside from Rieko's no-try).

and the first try which started inside our 22

The deft little offload in traffic to Rieko outside him?

Bridge is a class act. Covers 15 nicely too.

[Gumboot]

Whoever fluffed up that final lineout really annoyed me. I think it was Vaai but not sure.

No was actually Sam Whitelock who f***ed the last lineout, must be about first lineout I have ever seen him bulls up, well any important one anyway.

It was Vaa'i - the ball sailed straight through his hands. @84:40

[Gumboot]

When’s the team announcement?

At 11:30am, so in about half an hour.

[Gumboot]

Reece and Lomax have been released to play for Tasman.

[Carter's Choice]

Reece and Lomax have been released to play for Tasman.

So JB to start again on the right wing?

[Gumboot]

Reece and Lomax have been released to play for Tasman.

So JB to start again on the right wing?

Probably. I'm not sure this is the right game to introduce Jordan.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Not far off the side I would pick... David Havilli is a smart footballer. And I would want Frizzell to show he can give the All Blacks a bit of the Kanio mongrel it's been missing... Only Same Cane was knocking players backwards last week... I wonder if Papilii might do that...

Same Cane. Very apt. He's always the Same Cane in All Blacks tests - just burying people.

He should have the nickname The Undertaker.

Sam Cane should be playing 6 then. He's effectively in that role already, except he's cluttering up the open side of the scrum, when he should be operating from the blindside.

He makes the most tackles and is a better ball winner than Savea. That screams openside flanker to me.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Reece and Lomax have been released to play for Tasman.

So JB to start again on the right wing?

Probably. I'm not sure this is the right game to introduce Jordan.

If Jordie can play right wing, then Jordan sure as fuck can. At least he has pace.

[Gumboot]

So JB to start again on the right wing?

Probably. I'm not sure this is the right game to introduce Jordan.

If Jordie can play right wing, then Jordan sure as fuck can. At least he has pace.

That wasn't my point. If Jordan gets the nod I'll be very happy for him.

[Ted.]

Same Cane. Very apt. He's always the Same Cane in All Blacks tests - just burying people.

He should have the nickname The Undertaker.

Sam Cane should be playing 6 then. He's effectively in that role already, except he's cluttering up the open side of the scrum, when he should be operating from the blindside.

He makes the most tackles and is a better ball winner than Savea. That screams openside flanker to me.

False equivalence. Sam Cane is categorically not a better ball winner than Savea when both are playing openside. He is a very good defender.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Probably. I'm not sure this is the right game to introduce Jordan.

If Jordie can play right wing, then Jordan sure as fuck can. At least he has pace.

That wasn't my point. If Jordan gets the nod I'll be very happy for him.

Pretty sure a Super Rugby winning player can handle the step up to test rugby.

It doesn't seem to have harmed any of the young gun Wallabies. In fact they thrived last weekend.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Sam Cane should be playing 6 then. He's effectively in that role already, except he's cluttering up the open side of the scrum, when he should be operating from the blindside.

He makes the most tackles and is a better ball winner than Savea. That screams openside flanker to me.

False equivalence. Sam Cane is categorically not a better ball winner than Savea when both are playing openside. He is a very good defender.

Yes he is. Savea is a very good tackling openside but Cane is a better ball winner.

I don't recall Cane being dropped for being too slight and failing to win enough turnovers.

[Gumboot]

If Jordie can play right wing, then Jordan sure as fuck can. At least he has pace.

That wasn't my point. If Jordan gets the nod I'll be very happy for him.

Pretty sure a Super Rugby winning player can handle the step up to test rugby.

It doesn't seem to have harmed any of the young gun Wallabies. In fact they thrived last weekend.

Cool.

[Gumboot]

1. Joe Moody (47)
2. Dane Coles (70)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (36)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (31)
5. Tupou Vaa’i (1)
6. Shannon Frizell (10)
7. Sam Cane (69) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (45)

9. Aaron Smith (93)
10. Richie Mo’unga (18)
11. Caleb Clarke (1)
12. Jack Goodhue (14)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (44)
14. Jordie Barrett (18)
15. Beauden Barrett (84)

16. Codie Taylor (51)
17. Alex Hodgman - debut
18. Nepo Laulala (27)
19. Scott Barrett (36)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (1)
21. TJ Perenara (65)
22. Rieko Ioane (30)
23. Damian McKenzie (24)

[Ted.]

He makes the most tackles and is a better ball winner than Savea. That screams openside flanker to me.

False equivalence. Sam Cane is categorically not a better ball winner than Savea when both are playing openside. He is a very good defender.

Yes he is. Savea is a very good tackling openside but Cane is a better ball winner.

I don't recall Cane being dropped for being too slight and failing to win enough turnovers.

The stats say otherwise regards their respective ball winning ability.

[Guy Smiley]

1. Joe Moody (47)
2. Dane Coles (70)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (36)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (31)
5. Tupou Vaa’i (1)
6. Shannon Frizell (10)
7. Sam Cane (69) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (45)

9. Aaron Smith (93)
10. Richie Mo’unga (18)
11. Caleb Clarke (1)
12. Jack Goodhue (14)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (44)
14. Jordie Barrett (18)
15. Beauden Barrett (84)

16. Codie Taylor (51)
17. Alex Hodgman - debut
18. Nepo Laulala (27)
19. Scott Barrett (36)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (1)
21. TJ Perenara (65)
22. Rieko Ioane (30)
23. Damian McKenzie (24)

FFS

[Ted.]

False equivalence. Sam Cane is categorically not a better ball winner than Savea when both are playing openside. He is a very good defender.

Yes he is. Savea is a very good tackling openside but Cane is a better ball winner.

I don't recall Cane being dropped for being too slight and failing to win enough turnovers.

The stats say otherwise regards their respective ball winning ability.

https://index.rugbypass.com/compare/pla ... 64:11609:0

I'll get some international stats, however in the meantime, there is a reason why Savea is out of sight of Sam Cane in all the stats ranking sites.

https://www.rugbypass.com/international ... die-savea/

[Wild Beef]

JB won’t be making many friends securing another wing start.

[Gumboot]

FFS

Why?

I like this team. Great to see Scott Barrett back, especially with Whitelock out.

[Ted.]

1. Joe Moody (47)
2. Dane Coles (70)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (36)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (31)
5. Tupou Vaa’i (1)
6. Shannon Frizell (10)
7. Sam Cane (69) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (45)

9. Aaron Smith (93)
10. Richie Mo’unga (18)
11. Caleb Clarke (1)
12. Jack Goodhue (14)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (44)
14. Jordie Barrett (18)
15. Beauden Barrett (84)

16. Codie Taylor (51)
17. Alex Hodgman - debut
18. Nepo Laulala (27)
19. Scott Barrett (36)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (1)
21. TJ Perenara (65)
22. Rieko Ioane (30)
23. Damian McKenzie (24)

FFS

X2.

Jordy on the wing, Goodhue at 2nd 5 instead of centre, Sam Whitelock goooOOOooonnnne!