DuPont Injury

[Biffer]

I'll tell you where I'm coming from on this. I'm an active ref who is a bit weary of all the law changes in recent years, most of which haven't helped and serve to confuse everybody/get ignored and now there's a fundamental rejig of the breakdown being floated.

And that's a ludicrous position to take in a game where the base assumption is that the ref is right. You know better than all the international refs looking at this? You want an action that is technically against the laws to be penalised selectively? Reffing by outcome essentially?

I'm weary of all the law changes too - I'd rather they just enforced the laws that are already there. Don't go off your feet in a ruck, don't go offside. That'll mean a safer more running game.

[Tichtheid]

I'll tell you where I'm coming from on this. I'm an active ref who is a bit weary of all the law changes in recent years, most of which haven't helped and serve to confuse everybody/get ignored and now there's a fundamental rejig of the breakdown being floated.

And that's a ludicrous position to take in a game where the base assumption is that the ref is right. You know better than all the international refs looking at this? You want an action that is technically against the laws to be penalised selectively? Reffing by outcome essentially?

Reffing by outcome is essentially what happens now, when someone is hurt it's normal for the tmo and referee to look for instances of foul play in the lead up to the incident. I don't understand why you think using the word "technically" lessens the act of foul play itself, especially coming from a referee.

As for law changes, I haven't seen one person call for more law changes but I've seen plenty of calls for the game to be refereed according to laws as they are now, such as in this case.

I read that French officials are looking at ways this incident and lack of action can be appealed.

[Biffer]

I'll tell you where I'm coming from on this. I'm an active ref who is a bit weary of all the law changes in recent years, most of which haven't helped and serve to confuse everybody/get ignored and now there's a fundamental rejig of the breakdown being floated.

And that's a ludicrous position to take in a game where the base assumption is that the ref is right. You know better than all the international refs looking at this? You want an action that is technically against the laws to be penalised selectively? Reffing by outcome essentially?

Reffing by outcome is essentially what happens now, when someone is hurt it's normal for the tmo and referee to look for instances of foul play in the lead up to the incident. I don't understand why you think using the word "technically" lessens the act of foul play itself, especially coming from a referee.

As for law changes, I haven't seen one person call for more law changes but I've seen plenty of calls for the game to be refereed according to laws as they are now, such as in this case.

I read that French officials are looking at ways this incident and lack of action can be appealed.

Indeed, for example if you hit someone in the air, the sanction depends on the outcome, whether he lands on his back, shoulder or head/neck.

[Uncle fester]

I read that French officials are looking at ways this incident and lack of action can be appealed.

Nah, that was Galthie trying to shag us up for the last game.

[Simian]

It's not clear to me how this incident is different from the ones in the Ulster Munster game, England Japan game, Scotland SA game. All of those were reviewed at the time, led to reds and bans.


ETA: He coulda doid

[laurent]

I read that French officials are looking at ways this incident and lack of action can be appealed.

Nah, that was Galthie trying to shag us up for the last game.

France only need to win the game against Scotland (you need to score 100000000 points to catch up on point difference).

[Torquemada 1420]

It's not just a niche forum. You have the French national coach painting Ireland as a dirty team and engaging in vexatious citings to push that narrative.

There's also be accusations of "deliberate" and "targeted" foul play which is nonsense because the leg that got injured wasn't there until a split second before the contact.

And then the direct comparisons with another incident and the only thing they have in common is a player falling on another players lower leg.

If there was wrong doing in the unfortunate Dupont injury, I'm sure one of the following would have sanctioned it or caused it to be sanctioned:
1. The referee
2. Either TJ
3. TMO
4. Citing commissioner

So let's take a closer look at that (and maybe the Irish in the mirror) because it's not just Galthie and the "accusations" are well founded.
I already pointed to comments by Campese and Shalk and there are plenty of others. Amongst the great unwashed (us), I'm not seeing anyone
bar the Irish not believing that the Irish have been taking the p*ss out of the contact area for years. Deliberately illegally and, guess what, you
cannot possibly divorce that deliberate intent from knowing what the likely consequences will be, eventually, to other players.

As for 1-4............ perleeaassssse. WR has consistently shown itself to
- have no serious regard for player safety except when driven by expedience (maybe have a chat with Mr Thompson et al)
- and consequently, that same expedience imperative immediately results in digging out the Pontious Pilate manual

[Torquemada 1420]

Imagine for a sec how the game could work if refs immediately penalised any player going off their feet at a ruck.

They do it for the most part in lower levels in France.

Yup, and the rugby is so much better for it.

[Torquemada 1420]

I read that French officials are looking at ways this incident and lack of action can be appealed.

Nah, that was Galthie trying to shag us up for the last game.

I'm assuming that maths is not one of your stronger points.

[PornDog]

As for 1-4............ perleeaassssse. WR has consistently shown itself to
- have no serious regard for player safety except when driven by expedience (maybe have a chat with Mr Thompson et al)
- and consequently, that same expedience imperative immediately results in digging out the Pontious Pilate manual

I can't speak for Fester or Fish, but that is exactly my point. To blame the offending players only when an injury does occur is fucking ludicrous. The laws need to be applied across the board, whether an injury occurs or not. It is not the players that need to be hung out to dry, but World Rugby themselves. They have created the situation where injuries like these are unfortunately more common place than they need be. Rucks have become, by their very nature, reckless!

The only people that should be off their feet at a ruck are the tackler and the tacklee - BOTH of whom should do their utmost to get out of the way as soon as possible. Everyone else should be on their feet (and actually supporting their own weight on their own two legs), otherwise its a penalty offence.

I played in the 80's and 90's, and rucks then looked roughly similar to mauls, except the ball was on the ground instead of in someone's hands. This is how it should be! It's a fairer, safer contest that also pulls more players into the ruck. The knock on effect of that will be more space for the fancy pants twats and even fewer heavy collisions for their precious little bodies and pretty faces to put up with!

Both Scotland and NZ (surprise) were exceptional at the ruck during this time period. They were hugely competitive and exciting with turnovers still happening at similar rates as they do now.

Where can I get my MRGA hats made?


* This doesn't mean we have to return to a time of players jumping up and down on others heads - one does not necessarily come with the other (I can't recall a single time I got it in the head - my body was raked out of the way sure, but never the head. Raking and stamping are also vastly different things)

Imagine for a sec how the game could work if refs immediately penalised any player going off their feet at a ruck.

They do it for the most part in lower levels in France.

Yup, and the rugby is so much better for it.

Delighted to hear it Teh concept needs to be spread globally

[Uncle fester]

It's not just a niche forum. You have the French national coach painting Ireland as a dirty team and engaging in vexatious citings to push that narrative.

There's also be accusations of "deliberate" and "targeted" foul play which is nonsense because the leg that got injured wasn't there until a split second before the contact.

And then the direct comparisons with another incident and the only thing they have in common is a player falling on another players lower leg.

If there was wrong doing in the unfortunate Dupont injury, I'm sure one of the following would have sanctioned it or caused it to be sanctioned:
1. The referee
2. Either TJ
3. TMO
4. Citing commissioner

So let's take a closer look at that (and maybe the Irish in the mirror) because it's not just Galthie and the "accusations" are well founded.
I already pointed to comments by Campese and Shalk and there are plenty of others. Amongst the great unwashed (us), I'm not seeing anyone
bar the Irish not believing that the Irish have been taking the p*ss out of the contact area for years. Deliberately illegally and, guess what, you
cannot possibly divorce that deliberate intent from knowing what the likely consequences will be, eventually, to other players.

As for 1-4............ perleeaassssse. WR has consistently shown itself to
- have no serious regard for player safety except when driven by expedience (maybe have a chat with Mr Thompson et al)
- and consequently, that same expedience imperative immediately results in digging out the Pontious Pilate manual

So we're back to "it's a conspiracy between Ireland and WR"?

[Slick]

I played in the 80's and 90's, and rucks then looked roughly similar to mauls, except the ball was on the ground instead of in someone's hands. This is how it should be! It's a fairer, safer contest that also pulls more players into the ruck. The knock on effect of that will be more space for the fancy pants twats and even fewer heavy collisions for their precious little bodies and pretty faces to put up with!

Both Scotland and NZ (surprise) were exceptional at the ruck during this time period. They were hugely competitive and exciting with turnovers still happening at similar rates as they do now.

Where can I get my MRGA hats made?


* This doesn't mean we have to return to a time of players jumping up and down on others heads - one does not necessarily come with the other (I can't recall a single time I got it in the head - my body was raked out of the way sure, but never the head. Raking and stamping are also vastly different things)

Amen, brother.

I can only think that the reason it isn't coming back is that it doesn't look good on TV

[Uncle fester]

I played in the 80's and 90's, and rucks then looked roughly similar to mauls, except the ball was on the ground instead of in someone's hands. This is how it should be! It's a fairer, safer contest that also pulls more players into the ruck. The knock on effect of that will be more space for the fancy pants twats and even fewer heavy collisions for their precious little bodies and pretty faces to put up with!

Both Scotland and NZ (surprise) were exceptional at the ruck during this time period. They were hugely competitive and exciting with turnovers still happening at similar rates as they do now.

Where can I get my MRGA hats made?


* This doesn't mean we have to return to a time of players jumping up and down on others heads - one does not necessarily come with the other (I can't recall a single time I got it in the head - my body was raked out of the way sure, but never the head. Raking and stamping are also vastly different things)

Amen, brother.

I can only think that the reason it isn't coming back is that it doesn't look good on TV

Use it or lose it law was the start of the change. Once that came in, you drove the ball carrier to ground to prevent them being held up.

[Torquemada 1420]

So we're back to "it's a conspiracy between Ireland and WR"?

We're back to Ire being by far the biggest abusers of the breakdown area for years. And as Porndog highlights, WR is primarily to blame.
I'm a realist: in professional sport, all sides are going to seek to push many laws to the limit (Atonio scrummaging against Wales anyone.....) but
the breakdown has by far the highest capacity for serious injury and only Ire has gone as far at it has.

Let’s be honest, Ireland have form for this.For years they’ve pushed the breakdown chaos well past what is either acceptable or safe – just ask Malcolm Marx, a victim of a similar and possibly even worse incident in the summer for South Africa against Ireland.

Conspiracy? Complicity. In as much WR is not going to suddenly hold its hand up and say "Yeah, we've allowed Ire to recklessly endanger play safety for years and done f**k all about it".
Ire has cynically exploited WR's weakness.

[Torquemada 1420]

I played in the 80's and 90's, and rucks then looked roughly similar to mauls, except the ball was on the ground instead of in someone's hands. This is how it should be! It's a fairer, safer contest that also pulls more players into the ruck. The knock on effect of that will be more space for the fancy pants twats and even fewer heavy collisions for their precious little bodies and pretty faces to put up with!

Both Scotland and NZ (surprise) were exceptional at the ruck during this time period. They were hugely competitive and exciting with turnovers still happening at similar rates as they do now.

Where can I get my MRGA hats made?


* This doesn't mean we have to return to a time of players jumping up and down on others heads - one does not necessarily come with the other (I can't recall a single time I got it in the head - my body was raked out of the way sure, but never the head. Raking and stamping are also vastly different things)

Amen, brother.

I can only think that the reason it isn't coming back is that it doesn't look good on TV

Use it or lose it law was the start of the change. Once that came in, you drove the ball carrier to ground to prevent them being held up.

Which infuriates me.

Rool 1: "Rugby is a game to be played by players on their feet" and yet we reward them for doing the opposite. I could smash the TV every time I hear a ref scream "Tackle. Release!".
If the ball carrier attempts to go to floor by his own accord (clue: lifting legs as if suddenly swimming in shark infested waters) then he should lose all rights to the ball.

[PornDog]

only Ire has gone as far at it has.

Utter bollox - open the other eye! Every team is at it!

We might be better at it than most, but that's only because, right now, we're a better rugby team than most, and WR have decided that this farce should be a major part of the game!

[Biffer]

only Ire has gone as far at it has.

Utter bollox - open the other eye! Every team is at it!

We might be better at it than most, but that's only because, right now, we're a better rugby team than most, and WR have decided that this farce should be a major part of the game!

That's implicit in what torq says - only Ire has gone as far as it has. Every team is at it, but you push it further. How much that's you pushing it because you're better, or that you're better because you push it further, is up for debate.

[PornDog]

Go back through any of the threads during an Irish/Provincial game and its full of people seeing only one team offside, or one team off their feet. This place largely is not viewing through an objective lens*!


*I'm as partial as most during a game, and tend to notice the other teams infractions more than my own during them (as I think everyone does to one degree or another), but it seems that most else here only sees the Irish team infringe, and take that opinion with them well past the end of the game. Torq (who I was responding to) is by far and away the most one eyed loon on this place - if as much as 10% of his posts during an Irish match weren't bashing the Irish team or the ref then I'd be amazed.

Edit: and yes I do think we're better at the breakdown than most teams, though a lot of teams have made hay (against Leinster in particular) by going after us there. But as far as I'm concerned, it's World Rugby that need to step up It's part of the game right now, and I'll cheer louder than anyone to change that, but's otherwise you might as well give out about the South Afrticans for being so good at scrummaging!

[Torquemada 1420]

Go back through any of the threads during an Irish/Provincial game and its full of people seeing only one team offside, or one team off their feet. This place largely is not viewing through an objective lens*!


*I'm as partial as most during a game, and tend to notice the other teams infractions more than my own during them (as I think everyone does to one degree or another), but it seems that most else here only sees the Irish team infringe, and take that opinion with them well past the end of the game. Torq (who I was responding to) is by far and away the most one eyed loon on this place - if as much as 10% of his posts during an Irish match weren't bashing the Irish team or the ref then I'd be amazed.

Edit: and yes I do think we're better at the breakdown than most teams, though a lot of teams have made hay (against Leinster in particular) by going after us there. But as far as I'm concerned, it's World Rugby that need to step up It's part of the game right now, and I'll cheer louder than anyone to change that, but's otherwise you might as well give out about the South Afrticans for being so good at scrummaging!

Except, as the likes of Campo and Buger have pointed out, the Irish have long been the biggest cheats in this area and whilst that is annoying for everyone else, it is down to WR to fix it. What is not solely WR's responsibility is the wanton recklessness of Irish play there which goes way beyond anyone else in terms of player safety. Protest all you like but pretty much every other nation thinks the same i.e. it really is you behaving like c**ts here.

And I will continue to "bash" whilst your players continue to be c**ts. When Fre players indulged in thuggery, I was always the most vocal for sanction e.g.calling for life bans for the likes of Nones for eye gouging and Huget for stamping.

[Slick]

Go back through any of the threads during an Irish/Provincial game and its full of people seeing only one team offside, or one team off their feet. This place largely is not viewing through an objective lens*!


*I'm as partial as most during a game, and tend to notice the other teams infractions more than my own during them (as I think everyone does to one degree or another), but it seems that most else here only sees the Irish team infringe, and take that opinion with them well past the end of the game. Torq (who I was responding to) is by far and away the most one eyed loon on this place - if as much as 10% of his posts during an Irish match weren't bashing the Irish team or the ref then I'd be amazed.

Edit: and yes I do think we're better at the breakdown than most teams, though a lot of teams have made hay (against Leinster in particular) by going after us there. But as far as I'm concerned, it's World Rugby that need to step up It's part of the game right now, and I'll cheer louder than anyone to change that, but's otherwise you might as well give out about the South Afrticans for being so good at scrummaging!

Aside from the dangerous stuff which I don't think is just an Irish issue, I'm afraid I really do think Ireland get away with much more at the breakdown and must be explicitly coached to do it. No other team, including SA who I love to bash, comes so blatantly in from the side or consistently has so many players falling on the wrong side, none. It is also very noticeable when they do get reffed on it that the performance suffers. In saying that, they don't often get pulled up for it so there definitely is an argument to say fair play and why don't other teams do it as well.

[PornDog]

Go back through any of the threads during an Irish/Provincial game and its full of people seeing only one team offside, or one team off their feet. This place largely is not viewing through an objective lens*!


*I'm as partial as most during a game, and tend to notice the other teams infractions more than my own during them (as I think everyone does to one degree or another), but it seems that most else here only sees the Irish team infringe, and take that opinion with them well past the end of the game. Torq (who I was responding to) is by far and away the most one eyed loon on this place - if as much as 10% of his posts during an Irish match weren't bashing the Irish team or the ref then I'd be amazed.

Edit: and yes I do think we're better at the breakdown than most teams, though a lot of teams have made hay (against Leinster in particular) by going after us there. But as far as I'm concerned, it's World Rugby that need to step up It's part of the game right now, and I'll cheer louder than anyone to change that, but's otherwise you might as well give out about the South Afrticans for being so good at scrummaging!

Aside from the dangerous stuff which I don't think is just an Irish issue, I'm afraid I really do think Ireland get away with much more at the breakdown and must be explicitly coached to do it. No other team, including SA who I love to bash, comes so blatantly in from the side or consistently has so many players falling on the wrong side, none. It is also very noticeable when they do get reffed on it that the performance suffers. In saying that, they don't often get pulled up for it so there definitely is an argument to say fair play and why don't other teams do it as well.

There's a certain amount of truth to that and I could more readily accept that if people were also calling other teams for offside or off their feet*, but even when its as blatant as they come, there's rarely a comment. But it seems that most posters are viewing Ireland matches through a very subjective lens, with even borderline cases (or even just bullshit imagined offences) many posters are up in arms practically every time. I'd swear Torq doesn't watch rugby for the game, but rather just to bitch and moan about refs! The threads during Irish matches are practically unreadable - and you guys can't blame the swarm for that one. What is there, three or four of us (and one of those is Dutch)? It's just one long echo chamber of cheating Irish this and bent ref that. It's fucking tiresome!

Look I get everyone wants to see the underdogs win, and with us actually having a good team for once, we ain't the underdogs. And as personally heart breaking as it may be for me, I absolutely get the humour you assholes get in our World Cup failures. It's not just revelling in Irish mistakes or enjoying us losing though, but there's a real nastiness to it oftentimes (I once again reference Torq) which is just really unpleasant. Go back and read through the match thread if you think I'm being overly precious.

Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say on this thread - 1. Fuck World Rugby, and 2. You guys need to take a chill pill. I'm out.

*I'm talking about games involving Ireland/Irish teams of course. If we're not involved it's a more 'normal' objective experience.

[Monk]

In truth a fair survey of match threads will show that it is the Irish posters here (and particularly on PR) that are the biggest whingers about the refereeing. Also consistently the most ignorant posters.

[Kawazaki]

[
There's a certain amount of truth to that and I could more readily accept that if people were also calling other teams for offside or off their feet*, but even when its as blatant as they come, there's rarely a comment. But it seems that most posters are viewing Ireland matches through a very subjective lens, with even borderline cases (or even just bullshit imagined offences) many posters are up in arms practically every time. I'd swear Torq doesn't watch rugby for the game, but rather just to bitch and moan about refs! The threads during Irish matches are practically unreadable - and you guys can't blame the swarm for that one. What is there, three or four of us (and one of those is Dutch)? It's just one long echo chamber of cheating Irish this and bent ref that. It's fucking tiresome!

Look I get everyone wants to see the underdogs win, and with us actually having a good team for once, we ain't the underdogs. And as personally heart breaking as it may be for me, I absolutely get the humour you assholes get in our World Cup failures. It's not just revelling in Irish mistakes or enjoying us losing though, but there's a real nastiness to it oftentimes (I once again reference Torq) which is just really unpleasant. Go back and read through the match thread if you think I'm being overly precious.

Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say on this thread - 1. Fuck World Rugby, and 2. You guys need to take a chill pill. I'm out.

*I'm talking about games involving Ireland/Irish teams of course. If we're not involved it's a more 'normal' objective experience.

I need to up my spite game. Not so much as a mention in dispatches.

[Slick]

Go back through any of the threads during an Irish/Provincial game and its full of people seeing only one team offside, or one team off their feet. This place largely is not viewing through an objective lens*!


*I'm as partial as most during a game, and tend to notice the other teams infractions more than my own during them (as I think everyone does to one degree or another), but it seems that most else here only sees the Irish team infringe, and take that opinion with them well past the end of the game. Torq (who I was responding to) is by far and away the most one eyed loon on this place - if as much as 10% of his posts during an Irish match weren't bashing the Irish team or the ref then I'd be amazed.

Edit: and yes I do think we're better at the breakdown than most teams, though a lot of teams have made hay (against Leinster in particular) by going after us there. But as far as I'm concerned, it's World Rugby that need to step up It's part of the game right now, and I'll cheer louder than anyone to change that, but's otherwise you might as well give out about the South Afrticans for being so good at scrummaging!

Aside from the dangerous stuff which I don't think is just an Irish issue, I'm afraid I really do think Ireland get away with much more at the breakdown and must be explicitly coached to do it. No other team, including SA who I love to bash, comes so blatantly in from the side or consistently has so many players falling on the wrong side, none. It is also very noticeable when they do get reffed on it that the performance suffers. In saying that, they don't often get pulled up for it so there definitely is an argument to say fair play and why don't other teams do it as well.

There's a certain amount of truth to that and I could more readily accept that if people were also calling other teams for offside or off their feet*, but even when its as blatant as they come, there's rarely a comment. But it seems that most posters are viewing Ireland matches through a very subjective lens, with even borderline cases (or even just bullshit imagined offences) many posters are up in arms practically every time. I'd swear Torq doesn't watch rugby for the game, but rather just to bitch and moan about refs! The threads during Irish matches are practically unreadable - and you guys can't blame the swarm for that one. What is there, three or four of us (and one of those is Dutch)? It's just one long echo chamber of cheating Irish this and bent ref that. It's fucking tiresome!

Look I get everyone wants to see the underdogs win, and with us actually having a good team for once, we ain't the underdogs. And as personally heart breaking as it may be for me, I absolutely get the humour you assholes get in our World Cup failures. It's not just revelling in Irish mistakes or enjoying us losing though, but there's a real nastiness to it oftentimes (I once again reference Torq) which is just really unpleasant. Go back and read through the match thread if you think I'm being overly precious.

Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say on this thread - 1. Fuck World Rugby, and 2. You guys need to take a chill pill. I'm out.

*I'm talking about games involving Ireland/Irish teams of course. If we're not involved it's a more 'normal' objective experience.

We have a great bunch of Irishers on here it must be said

[Uncle fester]

In truth a fair survey of match threads will show that it is the Irish posters here (and particularly on PR) that are the biggest whingers about the refereeing. Also consistently the most ignorant posters.

Really?
Show us your homework.

[Torquemada 1420]

Aside from the dangerous stuff which I don't think is just an Irish issue, I'm afraid I really do think Ireland get away with much more at the breakdown and must be explicitly coached to do it. No other team, including SA who I love to bash, comes so blatantly in from the side or consistently has so many players falling on the wrong side, none. It is also very noticeable when they do get reffed on it that the performance suffers. In saying that, they don't often get pulled up for it so there definitely is an argument to say fair play and why don't other teams do it as well.

2 views on this

1) Owen Doyle (ex ref and Irish):
"France are livid about the injury to Antoine Dupont. He was cleared out by Tadhg Beirne, whose arm was tucked as his shoulder hit into the scrumhalf, his weight then rolling over onto Dupont’s knee. This rolling action is specifically banned in the laws, precisely because of concern for this type on injury. As it happened, Andrew Porter latched onto Beirne and there were arguments that it was the prop’s added weight which contributed to the injury, and that the awful outcome was accidental.

The human body is not meant to take these colossal delays. World Rugby went astray by evolving the game in such a way that allows players to enter rucks without any mastery (and lose balance). In this sense, there is no regard for the safety of the opposing players affected by very violent blows. It is time to put an end to this."

2) William Servat
Rucks are meant to be played in a North-South direction. On Saturday (the Irish) turned it into an East-West fight. This entry into the collision zone is dangerous....... we highlighted it to WR to be told they tolerated it.

[Uncle fester]

Amen, brother.

I can only think that the reason it isn't coming back is that it doesn't look good on TV

Use it or lose it law was the start of the change. Once that came in, you drove the ball carrier to ground to prevent them being held up.

Which infuriates me.

Rool 1: "Rugby is a game to be played by players on their feet" and yet we reward them for doing the opposite. I could smash the TV every time I hear a ref scream "Tackle. Release!".
If the ball carrier attempts to go to floor by his own accord (clue: lifting legs as if suddenly swimming in shark infested waters) then he should lose all rights to the ball.

But remember what the game was like back then.
Big heavy packs and the heaviest one won the ball because they could get the last push on. And that was one of the few days to actually contest the ball.

It was pretty diabolical.

At least with the current laws, there is a way for a smaller well drilled pack to compete effectively with bigger packs.

It's not just Ireland who are ruck goblins. Peak Gatland era Wales brought a lot of dark arts and intensity to the rucks as well. It's probably because neither nation can produce the athletes that bigger nations churn out so we focus on drilling players and getting advantage where sheer athletic ability isn't as much of an advantage.

[Guy Smiley]

It's not just Ireland who are ruck goblins.

No, it's not... and many of us have bemoaned the state of the ruck for years. There's a pretty clearly set out Law framework for managing it that the sport turns a blind eye to. Now we're at a juncture that a champion player is seriously injured... that should draw attention to the underlying problem, using his profile in the game to demand improvement. This shouldn't happen to any player and we have a mechanism to improve the situation.

Take the parochialism out of it and we can see we have a problem,

[OomStruisbaai]

It's not just Ireland who are ruck goblins.

No, it's not... and many of us have bemoaned the state of the ruck for years. There's a pretty clearly set out Law framework for managing it that the sport turns a blind eye to. Now we're at a juncture that a champion player is seriously injured... that should draw attention to the underlying problem, using his profile in the game to demand improvement. This shouldn't happen to any player and we have a mechanism to improve the situation.

Take the parochialism out of it and we can see we have a problem,

So we can't allow scumming because Kitshoff broke his neck against Griquas?

[Simian]

It's not just Ireland who are ruck goblins.

No, it's not... and many of us have bemoaned the state of the ruck for years. There's a pretty clearly set out Law framework for managing it that the sport turns a blind eye to. Now we're at a juncture that a champion player is seriously injured... that should draw attention to the underlying problem, using his profile in the game to demand improvement. This shouldn't happen to any player and we have a mechanism to improve the situation.

Take the parochialism out of it and we can see we have a problem,

So we can't allow scumming because Kitshoff broke his neck against Griquas?

Huh? WR have already changed the laws a few times to make the scrum safer.

[Sandstorm]

So we can't allow scumming

What you get up to in Struisbaai is your business.....

[Biffer]

Hold on everyone! Porter says it wasn't a penalty, so that should be an end to the matter, surely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 34zj3z8x3o

As ever, no mention of reckless, only deliberate. Fucking journalists need to start trying to understand the game.

[Simian]

As ever, no mention of reckless, only deliberate. Fucking journalists need to start trying to understand the game.

it's bizarre

[Marylandolorian]

Absolutely no intention from o’mahony to injure the player, nope zero.

[Biffer]

Absolutely no intention from o’mahony to injure the player, nope zero.

Yeah, well O'Mahony is a dirty bastard. Not close to the line, not sometimes wrong side of the line, not reckless. Dirty.

[SaintK]

Absolutely no intention from o’mahony to injure the player, nope zero.

Yeah, well O'Mahony is a dirty bastard. Not close to the line, not sometimes wrong side of the line, not reckless. Dirty.

He did that twice in the match. pretending to charge down!

[Tichtheid]

Absolutely no intention from o’mahony to injure the player, nope zero.

He’s only doing what World Rugby have told him to.

[C69]

Absolutely no intention from o’mahony to injure the player, nope zero.

Yeah, well O'Mahony is a dirty bastard. Not close to the line, not sometimes wrong side of the line, not reckless. Dirty.

This, dirty and deliberately trying to injure.

[Marylandolorian]

Absolutely no intention from o’mahony to injure the player, nope zero.

Yeah, well O'Mahony is a dirty bastard. Not close to the line, not sometimes wrong side of the line, not reckless. Dirty.

This, dirty and deliberately trying to injure.

Yep, his aim was off target by a foot.

[Uncle fester]

Absolutely no intention from o’mahony to injure the player, nope zero.

Yeah, well O'Mahony is a dirty bastard. Not close to the line, not sometimes wrong side of the line, not reckless. Dirty.

This, dirty and deliberately trying to injure.

Can always rely on online discourse for a rational take.