Welsh rugby: the end?

[Torquemada 1420]

In one of the ten thousand or so Terminator franchise films, someone opines about how close the human race was to going out. After Saturday, one wonders how close Welsh rugby is to the same.

Declared interest: I’m married to a Taff. I have spent decades attending games in Wales from places like Brewery Field and Rodney Parade. Welsh rugby had many parallels with the game in France
- working class core
- plenty of small clubs with parochial support and feral atmospheres
A.and the clubs were competitive: who can forget Ponty v Brive 1997 where it wasn’t only the shirts that were black and white on both sides? It was great.

Then Graham Henry and the WRU came up with the regions idea (it worked in NZ right? Until it didn't). Around the same time, the WRU decided to stick all its eggs in the one basket of the national team and the Millennium Stadium in time for the 99 RWC.

Back on the (very) old PR board, I suggested this would all end in disaster…. although I didn’t think it would take a quarter of a century for it to finally fold in on the national side. I argued with Welshies who (rightly) pointed out that there were too many fingers (the clubs) trying to eat from the same pie and sensible rationing of resources would never happen if left to the clubs. This was probably true and the same problem existed in France (in the end economics saw the likes of Colomiers, Dax, Begles, Narbonne and even Biarritz decline to obscurity) BUT what I did not agree with was the solution.
1) Creating artificial regions and expecting generations of hostilities to be put aside (e.g. Neath and Swansea) seemed a massive reach to me. Strip away the parochial identities which defined the clubs and their supporters?
2) Focusing all your money on the crown whilst starving the roots will, eventually, kill the tree. IMHO, it’s a friggin’ miracle that Wales managed to punch above its weight at intl level for so long, whilst all the time the clubs were dying.

All this folly saw the Celtic Warriors disappear as a region in the blink of an eye and Newport to be consigned to the role of hand me ons. More recently there have been noises of further culls. Maybe Llanelli survived this for a bit.. because they effectively remained as Llanelli. Moving from Stradey has wrecked their atmosphere though and no-one is scared to go to the sterile edifice of Parc y Scarlets on some soulless, industrial estate.

So now, Welsh rugby looks f**ked. Maybe permanently. Some of the wife’s family steward at “Swansea.com Stadium” (ex Morfa and Liberty). They tell me the game is changing. Attendees are gradually more like English rugby: aspiring middle classes. All polite watchers. Working class kids are more and more being disaffected to football. Wales is too small to afford the potential loss of players and fans.

I saw one pundit write that Wales couldn’t reliably beat Portugal or Romania now and so it was a good job they auto qualified for the RWC. Romania (how the IRB shafted them). Another national side falling away from competitiveness is not what rugby, the 6N or Europe needs.

Total shambles. I’d like to see what this WRU plan is to save the game in Wales but I bet it’s too little and too late. Saturday truly was a day of infamy. But not just for the Welsh, but rugby as a whole.

[Hugo]

Nothing to add other than I hope they can turn things around. Welsh rugby is an institution that I would love to see thrive. A decent number of the rugby players at my secondary school were Phillips' and Jones' and I very much recall how much beating England in 1993 was such a big deal.

Edit - can't say I've ever looked into the viabiity of it but it's always been a pipe dream of mine to see a combined Anglo-Welsh league with the old Welsh clubs. There's probably ten thousand reasons why it's a non starter but I've always loved the idea.

[Yeeb]

Their demise is over stated , they just have a crop of Chod yoemen at present that’s all, they still have a decent RWC that puts others to shame

[Sandstorm]

Needs more Welsh TV Monies

[Paddington Bear]

Leaving aside the last few seasons, Wales have made a remarkable success of the pro era at international level. Despite that, it’s been clear to anyone paying attention that if rugby ever was their national sport, it certainly isn’t anymore.

Ultimately the Premier League is a giant vortex that is sucking in everything and anything, it’s tentacles have decayed the Welsh connection to rugby and have made enormous inroads to the traditional middle class rugby base under a certain age as well. Don’t think there’s tonnes we can do about it tbh.

Re: the old Welsh clubs, I think it’s possible to have rose tinted specs on this. People talk about these vast crowds they used to get but whenever you look it up it’s more like 2-3,000, they’re just small grounds. These are mid-sized towns at best, poor, and with zero hope of being able to compete at any viable pro level. For Bridgend and Pontypridd read Orrell, Waterloo, London Welsh, Penzance & Newlyn etc etc. Grand old clubs all but not viable top tier professional entities.

The regions were once as well supported as any British teams bar Leicester, being not very good is a major factor in their fanbase decline.

Is it permanent? WRU AIUI has more cash than the SRU and I assume more than the Italians. They’re just addicted to spending it badly. Italy have produced a clearly better side and set up than them with no real cultural hinterland in the sport and two pro sides, one of which is terrible. Scotland have never reached Wales’ highs but they’ve got a clearly better side and set up which seems more sustainable. Both went through significant periods of pain to get there though.

In many ways, Saturday was the best thing that could have happened to Wales. A close loss would have allowed the blazers to pretend everything is OK and muddle on. England of all people pulling their pants down in that manner after the 2 years Wales have had means no one can deny the emperor has no clothes. Rip it up, consolidate to two teams and a dev squad, hate to say it but probably need to look at some project players in the interim.

Wales have given me by far my worst rugby memories, the only ones that over the long term still sting. Their fans have been consistently the most unpleasant around, and across the 6N it’s hard to find disagreement on that. And yet even I have to say that once they lose to Japan twice I sincerely hope they turn it around.

[SaintK]

Rip it up, consolidate to two teams and a dev squad, hate to say it but probably need to look at some project players in the interim.

Probably the way forward. Though I think they still have huge senior management issues and regional in-fighting to resolve
They disbanded the Welsh national academy at some stage for ssome reason. This should help with their player pathway.
https://www.wru.wales/article/wru-to- ... elopment/

[Hugo]

Ultimately the Premier League is a giant vortex that is sucking in everything and anything....

Id really love to.see an in depth study on the knock on effects of the complete dominance of the Premier league on the sporting landscape.

I'm not even sure that the popularity of the Premier league is good for English football let alone other sports that are in competition with football.

If just a small percentage of the money that is spent on the Premier league was moved into other areas in UK sport it could do incredible things.

[Sandstorm]

Rip it up, consolidate to two teams and a dev squad, hate to say it but probably need to look at some project players in the interim.

Probably the way forward.

Nope. No chance. No way! All you're doing is opening the door to English clubs trying to join the URC again.

Fuck off Poms. We're full.

[Paddington Bear]

Ultimately the Premier League is a giant vortex that is sucking in everything and anything....

Id really love to.see an in depth study on the knock on effects of the complete dominance of the Premier league on the sporting landscape.

I'm not even sure that the popularity of the Premier league is good for English football let alone other sports that are in competition with football.

If just a small percentage of the money that is spent on the Premier league was moved into other areas in UK sport it could do incredible things.

I’ve had similar thoughts, the one I keep coming back to is whether the big push of women’s football has been the death knell of netball clubs.

[SaintK]

Rip it up, consolidate to two teams and a dev squad, hate to say it but probably need to look at some project players in the interim.

Probably the way forward.

Nope. No chance. No way! All you're doing is opening the door to English clubs trying to join the URC again.

Fuck off Poms. We're full.

That's a new one! Since when did any English clubs want to join a league that means you have to travel to S Africa
It's bad enough having to do that in the ERC and Challenge Cup

[Ovals]

Whilst I can't see it happening - I'd love to see 2 Welsh regions join the English premiership. I think it would generate much more interest in Wales if their teams were playing against English Opposition most weeks - especially with games against Bath, Bristol and Gloucester - they'd also get more travelling supporters going to their home games.

[Sandstorm]

Probably the way forward.

Nope. No chance. No way! All you're doing is opening the door to English clubs trying to join the URC again.

Fuck off Poms. We're full.

That's a new one! Since when did any English clubs want to join a league that means you have to travel to S Africa
It's bad enough having to do that in the ERC and Challenge Cup

Just 6 months ago:

https://www.sportspro.com/news/premiers ... eague-cvc/

[Sandstorm]

Whilst I can't see it happening - I'd love to see 2 Welsh regions join the English premiership. I think it would generate much more interest in Wales if their teams were playing against English Opposition most weeks - especially with games against Bath, Bristol and Gloucester - they'd also get more travelling supporters going to their home games.

That is actually a good idea. Welsh football has bloomed by being in the Premiership; Rugby might go the same way.

[SaintK]

Nope. No chance. No way! All you're doing is opening the door to English clubs trying to join the URC again.

Fuck off Poms. We're full.

That's a new one! Since when did any English clubs want to join a league that means you have to travel to S Africa
It's bad enough having to do that in the ERC and Challenge Cup

Just 6 months ago:

https://www.sportspro.com/news/premiers ... eague-cvc/

Nowhere does it say English clubs "want" to join. And nothing has been heard of it since.
Not sure and Anglo/Welsh league will ever get off the ground..........too much politics and finance issuues at play

[laurent]

Not enough TV money left now that the Irish have taken it all.

[Torquemada 1420]

Re: the old Welsh clubs, I think it’s possible to have rose tinted specs on this. People talk about these vast crowds they used to get but whenever you look it up it’s more like 2-3,000, they’re just small grounds. These are mid-sized towns at best, poor, and with zero hope of being able to compete at any viable pro level. For Bridgend and Pontypridd read Orrell, Waterloo, London Welsh, Penzance & Newlyn etc etc. Grand old clubs all but not viable top tier professional entities.

Absolutely but the funds should have been concentrated on existing teams rather than creating artificial new ones.

[Stranger]

I fear that you can take the word Welsh out of the title, if we look at the next 25 years.

[Uncle fester]

Whilst I can't see it happening - I'd love to see 2 Welsh regions join the English premiership. I think it would generate much more interest in Wales if their teams were playing against English Opposition most weeks - especially with games against Bath, Bristol and Gloucester - they'd also get more travelling supporters going to their home games.

That is actually a good idea. Welsh football has bloomed by being in the Premiership; Rugby might go the same way.

Been floated so many times. The pigdogs don't want them and the attendances in Anglo-Welsh games in the Heineken cup suggest that the attendances won't actually be that good either.

[Uncle fester]

Re: the old Welsh clubs, I think it’s possible to have rose tinted specs on this. People talk about these vast crowds they used to get but whenever you look it up it’s more like 2-3,000, they’re just small grounds. These are mid-sized towns at best, poor, and with zero hope of being able to compete at any viable pro level. For Bridgend and Pontypridd read Orrell, Waterloo, London Welsh, Penzance & Newlyn etc etc. Grand old clubs all but not viable top tier professional entities.

The regions were once as well supported as any British teams bar Leicester, being not very good is a major factor in their fanbase decline.

Very much this. The clubs would have been the equivalent of the borders region that the Scots tried to get going.
They needed to get behind the regions but the small club men who run the WRU slowly degraded them.

WRU turnover is broadly the same as IRFU so they are financially better off than Scotland and Italy. If they didn't waste it on boot money for amateur players, they might have made a decent job on the pro level.

[SaintK]

Re: the old Welsh clubs, I think it’s possible to have rose tinted specs on this. People talk about these vast crowds they used to get but whenever you look it up it’s more like 2-3,000, they’re just small grounds. These are mid-sized towns at best, poor, and with zero hope of being able to compete at any viable pro level. For Bridgend and Pontypridd read Orrell, Waterloo, London Welsh, Penzance & Newlyn etc etc. Grand old clubs all but not viable top tier professional entities.

The regions were once as well supported as any British teams bar Leicester, being not very good is a major factor in their fanbase decline.

Very much this. The clubs would have been the equivalent of the borders region that the Scots tried to get going.
They needed to get behind the regions but the small club men who run the WRU slowly degraded them.

WRU turnover is broadly the same as IRFU so they are financially better off than Scotland and Italy. If they didn't waste it on boot money for amateur players, they might have made a decent job on the pro level.

Spot on

[Biffer]

One of the major problems with th Welsh rugby is that they think they're at the same table as England, France, South Africa, Australia and Nez Zealand.

They're not. They're with us, Ireland, Italy and Argentina.

[Paddington Bear]

Whilst I can't see it happening - I'd love to see 2 Welsh regions join the English premiership. I think it would generate much more interest in Wales if their teams were playing against English Opposition most weeks - especially with games against Bath, Bristol and Gloucester - they'd also get more travelling supporters going to their home games.

That is actually a good idea. Welsh football has bloomed by being in the Premiership; Rugby might go the same way.

Been floated so many times. The pigdogs don't want them and the attendances in Anglo-Welsh games in the Heineken cup suggest that the attendances won't actually be that good either.

Think it’s hard to read too much into that - a Welsh side hasn’t had a hope of winning the comp since Richard Hill beat the Ospreys on one leg in what ‘07/8? It’s a slightly bizarre state of affairs to have Welsh clubs cut off from old rivals and a league where 80% of the sides are within a 2 hour drive of Wales, and flying to South Africa instead.

Personal view is that the Prem is too small and I’d be happy enough to have 2, maybe 3 Welsh sides in it if the WRU provided some guarantee as to their funding level

[Hugo]

That is actually a good idea. Welsh football has bloomed by being in the Premiership; Rugby might go the same way.

Been floated so many times. The pigdogs don't want them and the attendances in Anglo-Welsh games in the Heineken cup suggest that the attendances won't actually be that good either.

Think it’s hard to read too much into that - a Welsh side hasn’t had a hope of winning the comp since Richard Hill beat the Ospreys on one leg in what ‘07/8? It’s a slightly bizarre state of affairs to have Welsh clubs cut off from old rivals and a league where 80% of the sides are within a 2 hour drive of Wales, and flying to South Africa instead.

Personal view is that the Prem is too small and I’d be happy enough to have 2, maybe 3 Welsh sides in it if the WRU provided some guarantee as to their funding level

I'm with you & oval on this, that would be great imo. It just makes way too much logistical sense when the hotbed of English rugby is adjacent to Wales.

I understand that whether there is the will or ability to do this is debatable but on so many levels it just makes too much sense to not pursue.

[petej]

Ultimately the Premier League is a giant vortex that is sucking in everything and anything....

Id really love to.see an in depth study on the knock on effects of the complete dominance of the Premier league on the sporting landscape.

I'm not even sure that the popularity of the Premier league is good for English football let alone other sports that are in competition with football.

If just a small percentage of the money that is spent on the Premier league was moved into other areas in UK sport it could do incredible things.

I’ve had similar thoughts, the one I keep coming back to is whether the big push of women’s football has been the death knell of netball clubs.

I suspect it has made a small dent. Probably also things like hockey as well.

Think the premier league has topped out in England. Dull league (guardiola ball is very dull), the best players are all knackered, tickets incredibly expensive. Think a lot of the growth in football is further down the pyramid.

[Biffer]

They don't really add much to the URC so you're welcome.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

That is actually a good idea. Welsh football has bloomed by being in the Premiership; Rugby might go the same way.

Been floated so many times. The pigdogs don't want them and the attendances in Anglo-Welsh games in the Heineken cup suggest that the attendances won't actually be that good either.

Think it’s hard to read too much into that - a Welsh side hasn’t had a hope of winning the comp since Richard Hill beat the Ospreys on one leg in what ‘07/8? It’s a slightly bizarre state of affairs to have Welsh clubs cut off from old rivals and a league where 80% of the sides are within a 2 hour drive of Wales, and flying to South Africa instead.

Personal view is that the Prem is too small and I’d be happy enough to have 2, maybe 3 Welsh sides in it if the WRU provided some guarantee as to their funding level

I'd quite like the see Wales make a success of rugby in Wales, but if for the game to survive they need to join our league it'd be better if the game was allowed to die in Wales. Which is to say they're not welcome, at all.

On a separate point I think the English Prem is now about the right size, the depth isn't so exposed, and that helps England, so too we naturally have a shorter season. I'd actually think we now have a sufficiently curtailed season we could go back to simply having the team finishing top being crowned champions for the season, but there seems less than precious little chance of that. But what do I know, at the weekend I met someone who likes the coloured stripe down the side of the England kit, apparently just white tops is too boring, gimmicks are just important to some.

[tc27]

Fuck em let them burn (I'm not over the 30-3 game).

[Hugo]

Id really love to.see an in depth study on the knock on effects of the complete dominance of the Premier league on the sporting landscape.

I'm not even sure that the popularity of the Premier league is good for English football let alone other sports that are in competition with football.

If just a small percentage of the money that is spent on the Premier league was moved into other areas in UK sport it could do incredible things.

I’ve had similar thoughts, the one I keep coming back to is whether the big push of women’s football has been the death knell of netball clubs.

I suspect it has made a small dent. Probably also things like hockey as well.

Think the premier league has topped out in England. Dull league (guardiola ball is very dull), the best players are all knackered, tickets incredibly expensive. Think a lot of the growth in football is further down the pyramid.

I think the goal of the bigger Premier league clubs is to gentrify the stadiums in the sense that they elbow out season ticket holders (who get tickets at a relatively cheap rate) and make those seats available to overseas fans who are willing to pay an arm and a leg for a one off experience. In essence the league has become so big and global that the loyal locals are no longer all that important.

In turn I would imagine that local clubs will derive some benefit from this as people look for a more affordable match day experience.

I think there will always be opportunities for other sports to generate some custom from this type of displacement - I think the key is you really have to work for it, market it right and price it right.

[Dogbert]

They don't really add much to the URC so you're welcome.

Not true , It gives Edinburgh a chance to win a few games

[Paddington Bear]

I’ve had similar thoughts, the one I keep coming back to is whether the big push of women’s football has been the death knell of netball clubs.

I suspect it has made a small dent. Probably also things like hockey as well.

Think the premier league has topped out in England. Dull league (guardiola ball is very dull), the best players are all knackered, tickets incredibly expensive. Think a lot of the growth in football is further down the pyramid.

I think the goal of the bigger Premier league clubs is to gentrify the stadiums in the sense that they elbow out season ticket holders (who get tickets at a relatively cheap rate) and make those seats available to overseas fans who are willing to pay an arm and a leg for a one off experience. In essence the league has become so big and global that the loyal locals are no longer all that important.

In turn I would imagine that local clubs will derive some benefit from this as people look for a more affordable match day experience.

I think there will always be opportunities for other sports to generate some custom from this type of displacement - I think the key is you really have to work for it, market it right and price it right.

The first bit has already happened. Part 2 has not - the majority of football fans are consumers with big tv subscriptions (or firesticks).

[sturginho]

Probably the way forward.

Nope. No chance. No way! All you're doing is opening the door to English clubs trying to join the URC again.

Fuck off Poms. We're full.

That's a new one! Since when did any English clubs want to join a league that means you have to travel to S Africa
It's bad enough having to do that in the ERC and Challenge Cup

Apparently when the FIR put Zebre up for sale, one of the offers they received was to take the URC spot to England

[Torquemada 1420]

That is actually a good idea. Welsh football has bloomed by being in the Premiership; Rugby might go the same way.

How many Welsh clubs in the Prem? They all suffer the same way as every other club does which is not part of the big club cabal.

[robmatic]

That is actually a good idea. Welsh football has bloomed by being in the Premiership; Rugby might go the same way.

How many Welsh clubs in the Prem? They all suffer the same way as every other club does which is not part of the big club cabal.

Indeed, Swansea and Cardiff are both in the bottom half of the Championship at the moment and Cardiff are a decent shout to go down.

I watched the Boro game at Swansea the other week and the stadium seemed to be about half full - they are probably one of the worst-supported clubs in the division. I am not sure I would call that blooming.

[robmatic]

Id really love to.see an in depth study on the knock on effects of the complete dominance of the Premier league on the sporting landscape.

I'm not even sure that the popularity of the Premier league is good for English football let alone other sports that are in competition with football.

If just a small percentage of the money that is spent on the Premier league was moved into other areas in UK sport it could do incredible things.

I’ve had similar thoughts, the one I keep coming back to is whether the big push of women’s football has been the death knell of netball clubs.

I suspect it has made a small dent. Probably also things like hockey as well.

Think the premier league has topped out in England. Dull league (guardiola ball is very dull), the best players are all knackered, tickets incredibly expensive. Think a lot of the growth in football is further down the pyramid.

I exclusively watch Championship football now (as an online streaming viewer). This is mostly due to my team being completely unable to get promoted, but I actually quite like it as a football fan. The games are a decent standard and there is a good atmosphere in the grounds.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Id really love to.see an in depth study on the knock on effects of the complete dominance of the Premier league on the sporting landscape.

I'm not even sure that the popularity of the Premier league is good for English football let alone other sports that are in competition with football.

If just a small percentage of the money that is spent on the Premier league was moved into other areas in UK sport it could do incredible things.

I’ve had similar thoughts, the one I keep coming back to is whether the big push of women’s football has been the death knell of netball clubs.

I suspect it has made a small dent. Probably also things like hockey as well.

Think the premier league has topped out in England. Dull league (guardiola ball is very dull), the best players are all knackered, tickets incredibly expensive. Think a lot of the growth in football is further down the pyramid.

In most aspects of life priority is given to the rich getting richer, not sure why football would be any different. I mean you could have common sense and decency on your side, but what would that matter?

[_Os_]

Re: the old Welsh clubs, I think it’s possible to have rose tinted specs on this. People talk about these vast crowds they used to get but whenever you look it up it’s more like 2-3,000, they’re just small grounds. These are mid-sized towns at best, poor, and with zero hope of being able to compete at any viable pro level. For Bridgend and Pontypridd read Orrell, Waterloo, London Welsh, Penzance & Newlyn etc etc. Grand old clubs all but not viable top tier professional entities.

The regions were once as well supported as any British teams bar Leicester, being not very good is a major factor in their fanbase decline.

Very much this. The clubs would have been the equivalent of the borders region that the Scots tried to get going.
They needed to get behind the regions but the small club men who run the WRU slowly degraded them.

WRU turnover is broadly the same as IRFU so they are financially better off than Scotland and Italy. If they didn't waste it on boot money for amateur players, they might have made a decent job on the pro level.

Is the conclusion I've come to. It's not the players they're still the same Welsh they've always been, which means cutting regions will likely not improve much. The system they have worked 15-20 years ago, it does not work now. The reason it does not work is the sport has become more professional/analytical/scientific, Wales hasn't kept pace off the field. They need major investment into coaching through every level.

The URC probably needs to setup something similar to SARU's mobi-unit (Rassie has just setup a high performance version for pro sides and some of the top schools/clubs). A team of top coaches would be contracted to the URC, their job would be raising the standards of all teams especially those which are failing. In practice this would mean the best coaches in Ireland/Scotland/Italy/SA who are uncontracted or not in a big job, a test quality coaching team, are used to try and lift Welsh URC sides. Having at least 1 high quality URC side capable of winning things is basically a requirement for a good test team, cannot coach everything that needs to be coached over a few weeks at test level, it's not 2005 any more.

[petej]

Re: the old Welsh clubs, I think it’s possible to have rose tinted specs on this. People talk about these vast crowds they used to get but whenever you look it up it’s more like 2-3,000, they’re just small grounds. These are mid-sized towns at best, poor, and with zero hope of being able to compete at any viable pro level. For Bridgend and Pontypridd read Orrell, Waterloo, London Welsh, Penzance & Newlyn etc etc. Grand old clubs all but not viable top tier professional entities.

The regions were once as well supported as any British teams bar Leicester, being not very good is a major factor in their fanbase decline.

Very much this. The clubs would have been the equivalent of the borders region that the Scots tried to get going.
They needed to get behind the regions but the small club men who run the WRU slowly degraded them.

WRU turnover is broadly the same as IRFU so they are financially better off than Scotland and Italy. If they didn't waste it on boot money for amateur players, they might have made a decent job on the pro level.

Is the conclusion I've come to. It's not the players they're still the same Welsh they've always been, which means cutting regions will likely not improve much. The system they have worked 15-20 years ago, it does not work now. The reason it does not work is the sport has become more professional/analytical/scientific, Wales hasn't kept pace off the field. They need major investment into coaching through every level.

The URC probably needs to setup something similar to SARU's mobi-unit (Rassie has just setup a high performance version for pro sides and some of the top schools/clubs). A team of top coaches would be contracted to the URC, their job would be raising the standards of all teams especially those which are failing. In practice this would mean the best coaches in Ireland/Scotland/Italy/SA who are uncontracted or not in a big job, a test quality coaching team, are used to try and lift Welsh URC sides. Having at least 1 high quality URC side capable of winning things is basically a requirement for a good test team, cannot coach everything that needs to be coached over a few weeks at test level, it's not 2005 any more.

Agree. The regions seem to have always under invested both in facilities and coaching.

[Yr Alban]

Re: the old Welsh clubs, I think it’s possible to have rose tinted specs on this. People talk about these vast crowds they used to get but whenever you look it up it’s more like 2-3,000, they’re just small grounds. These are mid-sized towns at best, poor, and with zero hope of being able to compete at any viable pro level. For Bridgend and Pontypridd read Orrell, Waterloo, London Welsh, Penzance & Newlyn etc etc. Grand old clubs all but not viable top tier professional entities.

The regions were once as well supported as any British teams bar Leicester, being not very good is a major factor in their fanbase decline.

Very much this. The clubs would have been the equivalent of the borders region that the Scots tried to get going.
They needed to get behind the regions but the small club men who run the WRU slowly degraded them.

WRU turnover is broadly the same as IRFU so they are financially better off than Scotland and Italy. If they didn't waste it on boot money for amateur players, they might have made a decent job on the pro level.

The problem with the Borders team was that for all that rugby is huge in the Borders, it’s all based around local rivalries, and there was little interest in going to watch a combined team playing at a rival’s ground. Small-minded, yes, but there it is. There’s a parallel there with the Welsh regional teams.

[SaintK]

Cardiff Blues just about gone!
Into administration and a takeover by the WRU who I thought didn't have any maoney!!!!

Cardiff Rugby will declare their intention to go into administration with the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) in line for a takeover of the regional side.
The Welsh professional rugby team has served a notice of intent (NOI) to appoint an administrator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-uni ... qy9zlrzo

[Kawazaki]

There's an old adage that's worth remembering in dark times like this; "No matter how bad things get, just remember that they can always get worse"