All Blacks 2025

[Kiwias]

He hasn't had the surgery yet so no way he's ready for June tests.

I would be surprised to see him back much before the November tour.

[Guy Smiley]

He hasn't had the surgery yet so no way he's ready for June tests.

Why the delay if the injury was sustained on the tour, that's two months ago?

[Dan54]

He hasn't had the surgery yet so no way he's ready for June tests.

Why the delay if the injury was sustained on the tour, that's two months ago?

From what I heard, because it only been looked at now, hasn't caused him a lot of discomfort, and he was away on holiday for quite some time after EOYT.
The rumour has been around about the injury for a couple of weeks (think since he got back?

[Gumboot]

Sam Darry goooonne...

...for the Supe season, at least.

Buggered his shoulder at training a couple of weeks ago and needs surgery.

[Kiwias]

Sam Darry goooonne...

...for the Supe season, at least.

Buggered his shoulder at training a couple of weeks ago and needs surgery.

Saw that a few minutes ago. That is a real shame.

[Gumboot]

INEOS gooonne!!!

From their 6-year sponsorship deal with NZR... after only 3 years.

NZ Rugby launches legal action against INEOS alleging sponsorship agreement breach

New Zealand Rugby is "left with no option" but to launch legal action against global company INEOS over what it says is a sponsorship agreement breach.

In a statement to RNZ, NZ Rugby alleged the company owned by British billionaire Sir Jim Ratcliffe had ended its six-year sponsorship deal which began in 2022.

"New Zealand Rugby (NZR) is disappointed that INEOS has breached its sponsorship agreement. Most recently, it failed to pay the first instalment of the 2025 sponsorship fee, confirming its decision to exit our six-year agreement," the statement said.

"Having learned of INEOS' decision to walk away three years early, we have moved to protect the interests of New Zealand Rugby and the wider game. We have been left with no option but to launch legal proceedings to protect our commercial position...

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/541518 ... ent-breach

[Hugo]

INEOS gooonne!!!

From their 6-year sponsorship deal with NZR... after only 3 years.

NZ Rugby launches legal action against INEOS alleging sponsorship agreement breach

New Zealand Rugby is "left with no option" but to launch legal action against global company INEOS over what it says is a sponsorship agreement breach.

In a statement to RNZ, NZ Rugby alleged the company owned by British billionaire Sir Jim Ratcliffe had ended its six-year sponsorship deal which began in 2022.

"New Zealand Rugby (NZR) is disappointed that INEOS has breached its sponsorship agreement. Most recently, it failed to pay the first instalment of the 2025 sponsorship fee, confirming its decision to exit our six-year agreement," the statement said.

"Having learned of INEOS' decision to walk away three years early, we have moved to protect the interests of New Zealand Rugby and the wider game. We have been left with no option but to launch legal proceedings to protect our commercial position...

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/541518 ... ent-breach

That is sickening. Between his shenanigans on the Americas Cup and running Man U into the ground Ratcliffe is clearly not someone who can be relied upon. I hope NZR win their money in court, rugby operates on too fine margins to have billionaires reneging on their commitments.

[inactionman]

INEOS gooonne!!!

From their 6-year sponsorship deal with NZR... after only 3 years.

NZ Rugby launches legal action against INEOS alleging sponsorship agreement breach

New Zealand Rugby is "left with no option" but to launch legal action against global company INEOS over what it says is a sponsorship agreement breach.

In a statement to RNZ, NZ Rugby alleged the company owned by British billionaire Sir Jim Ratcliffe had ended its six-year sponsorship deal which began in 2022.

"New Zealand Rugby (NZR) is disappointed that INEOS has breached its sponsorship agreement. Most recently, it failed to pay the first instalment of the 2025 sponsorship fee, confirming its decision to exit our six-year agreement," the statement said.

"Having learned of INEOS' decision to walk away three years early, we have moved to protect the interests of New Zealand Rugby and the wider game. We have been left with no option but to launch legal proceedings to protect our commercial position...

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/541518 ... ent-breach

That is sickening. Between his shenanigans on the Americas Cup and running Man U into the ground Ratcliffe is clearly not someone who can be relied upon. I hope NZR win their money in court, rugby operates on too fine margins to have billionaires reneging on their commitments.

It looks like Sir Jim has over-reached a fair bit, given he's cutting costs in all directions, but just backing out of agreements isn't an acceptable way to cover such exposure.

Ainslie is also talking of exploring legal options, shame all the poor sods in the backoffice he pushed out the door at Man U can't do the same.

[Gumboot]

For anyone who's interested, the three wise men discuss their greatest ever All Blacks team.

The first video's their forward pack, and the second one's their backline.







(I think they were recorded a couple of years ago, based on a few of their comments.)

[Hugo]

For anyone who's interested, the three wise men discuss their greatest ever All Blacks team.

The first video's their forward pack, and the second one's their backline.







(I think they were recorded a couple of years ago, based on a few of their comments.)

Can't argue with that backline, I would just opt for Barrett instead of Cullen at 15 and Tana instead of Conrad Smith.

One thing I didn't realise until recently was how utterly pissed off Smith was about being subbed off at HT of the 2015 final. He was having a good game but that sub paid off almost immediately when Nonu scored. I don't even know why he was so vocal about it, it was obvious there was more talent that could be accommodated at once and the best way to utilise it was through making proactive subs.

[Guy Smiley]

Two quite interesting clips although most of the selections probably fall closely in line with a sort of fan majority. It was nice to see some names from a long time back brought into the conversation and I have to admit to having seen most of them play across my lifetime, I'm getting old.

If they had to name a bench then perhaps Barrett gets in but no way does he shade Cullen for FB.

[Hugo]

The best anecdote was about how Kevin Skinner used to roll up his sleeve. Smith said it as so the ref couldn't see who was doing the punching or something like that.

[Gumboot]

Happy that Ted went for the Prince of Centres ahead of Snakey. I idolised Robertson as a lad, and was gobsmacked the first time I saw him live at a benefit game in Waverley (fundraiser to rebuild their old grandstand iirc). He had all the skills, was seriously rapid, and his wings absolutely loved him. He and Osborne (my favourite 12 until Horan) were a terrific midfield combination.

[Hugo]

BB diagnosed with a fractured hand, sucks.

[Gumboot]

Shaun Stevenson having a grizzle about perceived lack of feedback from the ABs coaches as to his place in the pecking order.

I can't imagine he figures very highly in their current plans, tbh. Unless there's a load of injuries at fullback and wing, I reckon he's a one-and-done test player.

The first 7 minutes of his debut against the Wallabies in '23 made it abundantly clear that regardless of having a stellar Supe campaign, his defence is simply not up to test standard.

That said, I hope he tears it up for the Chiefs!

[Hugo]

Interview with Razor & Mark Robinson. Not a lot to be gleaned here but my main takeaway is that Robinson seems very optimist about the state of the international game and the direction rugby is heading. Seemingly not too perturbed about the loss of INEOS sponsorship.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/ ... XJWOVYWZQ/

[Kiwias]

Happy that Ted went for the Prince of Centres ahead of Snakey. I idolised Robertson as a lad, and was gobsmacked the first time I saw him live at a benefit game in Waverley (fundraiser to rebuild their old grandstand iirc). He had all the skills, was seriously rapid, and his wings absolutely loved him. He and Osborne (my favourite 12 until Horan) were a terrific midfield combination.

The Prince of Centres is my GOAT -- utterly brilliant, graceful, intelligent, great reader of the game, seriously rapid as you say, and BeeGee and Bats could not speak highly enough of his ability to deliver perfect passes.

[Gumboot]

Happy that Ted went for the Prince of Centres ahead of Snakey. I idolised Robertson as a lad, and was gobsmacked the first time I saw him live at a benefit game in Waverley (fundraiser to rebuild their old grandstand iirc). He had all the skills, was seriously rapid, and his wings absolutely loved him. He and Osborne (my favourite 12 until Horan) were a terrific midfield combination.

The Prince of Centres is my GOAT -- utterly brilliant, graceful, intelligent, great reader of the game, seriously rapid as you say, and BeeGee and Bats could not speak highly enough of his ability to deliver perfect passes.

Yep. And he had another skill that many modern players seem to really struggle with - an excellent grubber kick.

[Kiwias]

Yep. And he had another skill that many modern players seem to really struggle with - an excellent grubber kick.

My memory is that grubber kicks were far more common than the chip kicks we see so often these days.

[Gumboot]

Yep. And he had another skill that many modern players seem to really struggle with - an excellent grubber kick.

My memory is that grubber kicks were far more common than the chip kicks we see so often these days.

You may well be right, I honestly can't remember. The modern day tendency of attacking teams to kick the ball away when in the oppo's red zone does my bloody head in. I know it's been justified as maintaining positional pressure, but the aim of the game is to score tries, and as an attacking ploy it's rarely a good option imho. Is rugby devolving into one-note league, where almost every red zone attack seems to culminate in a goal-line bomb?

[Guy Smiley]

Yep. And he had another skill that many modern players seem to really struggle with - an excellent grubber kick.

My memory is that grubber kicks were far more common than the chip kicks we see so often these days.

You may well be right, I honestly can't remember. The modern day tendency of attacking teams to kick the ball away when in the oppo's red zone does my bloody head in. I know it's been justified as maintaining positional pressure, but the aim of the game is to score tries, and as an attacking ploy it's rarely a good option imho. Is rugby devolving into one-note league, where almost every red zone attack seems to culminate in a goal-line bomb?

I don't think so, there are still plenty of attacking options being used... but I've said it before and I'll say it again, halfbacks should be banned from kicking, at pain of having the leg removed. Box kicking is a virus that needs rooting out of the game.

[Hugo]

Looking at that Blues-Saders game where, FWIW, neither Perofeta nor Kemara set the world alight what are the options for the ABs at 10?

Dmac has probably been the player of Super rugby thus far but who would be the next in line after Barrett - who has only played 40 mins at 10 this season and who is currently injured.

[Hugo]

Btw, just an observation, Havili has been good this season, quietly going about his work and showing good leadership.

[Kiwias]

Btw, just an observation, Havili has been good this season, quietly going about his work and showing good leadership.

He is also looking fitter and quicker than last season

[Kiwias]

My memory is that grubber kicks were far more common than the chip kicks we see so often these days.

You may well be right, I honestly can't remember. The modern day tendency of attacking teams to kick the ball away when in the oppo's red zone does my bloody head in. I know it's been justified as maintaining positional pressure, but the aim of the game is to score tries, and as an attacking ploy it's rarely a good option imho. Is rugby devolving into one-note league, where almost every red zone attack seems to culminate in a goal-line bomb?

I don't think so, there are still plenty of attacking options being used... but I've said it before and I'll say it again, halfbacks should be banned from kicking, at pain of having the leg removed. Box kicking is a virus that needs rooting out of the game.

THis + 1,000X

[Gumboot]

Btw, just an observation, Havili has been good this season, quietly going about his work and showing good leadership.

Yep, he's playing very well.

[Hugo]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/ ... K6UEYEY2E/

Good news, DMac is contracted to NZ rugby for 4 more years.

[Gumboot]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/ ... K6UEYEY2E/

Good news, DMac is contracted to NZ rugby for 4 more years.

[Gumboot]

Just watched the Breakdown panel discussing the rumour that Mark Tele'a is moving off shore, and they made it sound like pretty much a done deal. Damn shame if it happens, and it raises the question of whether Razor should pick him in that case.

Tele'a's in good form, and barring injury he'd likely have the right wing nailed down against France. But if he's gone, who replaces him? The panel metioned Tavatavanawai and Tangitau as leading contenders, but I think that's assuming Reece is at 11. I'd like to see Love get a crack, though.

[Hugo]

Just watched the Breakdown panel discussing the rumour that Mark Tele'a is moving off shore, and they made it sound like pretty much a done deal. Damn shame if it happens, and it raises the question of whether Razor should pick him in that case.

What about a back three of Clark, Jordan (at 14) and Love?

[Gumboot]

What about a back three of Clark, Jordan (at 14) and Love?

Clarke's gone off the boil yet again, and hasn't scored a single try in seven games of Supe. He deserved his spot last year, but there are a few other wings in much better form atm. If the squad for the France series was picked today, I'd go for Jordan at 15, with Love and Reece on the wings. Wouldn't mind seeing how a few others would go, though - the two Highlanders already mentioned, but even the likes of AJ Lam, Sullivan (who's played a lot on the wing), Nareki, even young Leroy Carter. I like Narawa a lot, but Razor didn't keep him around for long last year. He'll need a really strong finish for the Chiefs to get a look-in this year, I reckon.

[Guy Smiley]

Narawa is an interesting player, he's capable of busting things open, he's flexible with a wide skill set and he's agile on his feet and with his thinking... but he doesn't seem to feature consistently. Contrast with Reece who is in everything.

Love has to be coming into the picture somehow, whether it's wing, FB or bench 10 option. I wouldn't turn my nose up at Rieko being back on the wing as he's still very quick and the experiment at 13 has surely done it's dash. A roughie to add to the mix would be Chay Fihaki, my Saders' bias showing perhaps but he has a massive boot and I think he could turn into a long range penalty weapon along with being a damaging ball player.

Leicester Fainga'anuku comes back into the mix in 2026, just for shits and giggles.

[Hugo]

What about a back three of Clark, Jordan (at 14) and Love?

Clarke's gone off the boil yet again, and hasn't scored a single try in seven games of Supe. He deserved his spot last year, but there are a few other wings in much better form atm. If the squad for the France series was picked today, I'd go for Jordan at 15, with Love and Reece on the wings. Wouldn't mind seeing how a few others would go, though - the two Highlanders already mentioned, but even the likes of AJ Lam, Sullivan (who's played a lot on the wing), Nareki, even young Leroy Carter. I like Narawa a lot, but Razor didn't keep him around for long last year. He'll need a really strong finish for the Chiefs to get a look-in this year, I reckon.

Narawa is an interesting player, he's capable of busting things open, he's flexible with a wide skill set and he's agile on his feet and with his thinking... but he doesn't seem to feature consistently. Contrast with Reece who is in everything.

Love has to be coming into the picture somehow, whether it's wing, FB or bench 10 option. I wouldn't turn my nose up at Rieko being back on the wing as he's still very quick and the experiment at 13 has surely done it's dash. A roughie to add to the mix would be Chay Fihaki, my Saders' bias showing perhaps but he has a massive boot and I think he could turn into a long range penalty weapon along with being a damaging ball player.

Leicester Fainga'anuku comes back into the mix in 2026, just for shits and giggles.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that one of the things about the All Blacks right now is that there are precious few players who are nailed on for a place in the starting XV.

Of the backs I can only conceive of DMac & Jordan who are dead certs to start based on current form and credit in the bank. After that I think Roigard would the next name of the team sheet.

In midfield and the outside backs theres any number of combinations that could be used depending on selection criteria and game plan.

[Guy Smiley]

It's a fair call. I think Razor had one eye firmly on getting wins on the board in his first year and stuck to a certain extent with relatively settled selections with a focus on changes to the tactics being used. Perhaps this year will see a little more variety come into the selection mix because everyone will be very aware of the RWC cycle and needing depth.

[Gumboot]

Which then raises the question of who would make way for any new blood? Are there any incumbents whose time is up, or who are likely to be overtaken by 2027?

[Guy Smiley]

I think for us fans, that's an exercise in how we perceive things... glass half full or empty sort of thing. Do we look at who has to give way, or do we look at who might be worthy of coming into the set up?

Let's look at Love for an example... he's been on tour and had an impact already. His play this season demands attention and most of us probably think it's a matter of when, not if. Trouble is, he's being played at FB and the incumbent is, shall we say, worthy. Do we go down the track of shoe horning him in or moving Jordan to the wing? (with the chat we've already had about Tele'a it probably makes a LOT of sense to switch Jordan to 14 and bring Love in at 15... my salivary glands are working overtime on that).

Another case is Sititi... before he played and set the world on fire who would you have dropped for him?

After years of being frustrated by the fixation on Beauden and DMac as pivots when they both have shortcomings in that role, I think my personal preference is to look at the potential of change as opposed to what I see as a more conservative, steady as she goes sentiment that many fans seem to have (outside of this place).

I think we've got a really exciting crop of younger players coming through and some of those guys will be banging on the door of AB selection just on form. I don't think the AB environment is suitable for experimenting with potential and I'd point to the insistence of having Jordie in the team and playing on the wing as a case of that. He's come good and deserves his spot at 12 but what a crock of shit him on the wing was.

Anyway... the last couple of months of SupeRugby is going to be fascinating with respect to all of this speculating. I think a few guys are staking a decent claim and we're in for a treat this winter.

[Guy Smiley]

I wouldn't turn my nose up at Rieko being back on the wing as he's still very quick and the experiment at 13 has surely done it's dash.

In a bombshell move sure to spark interest throughout the rugby world, All Blacks centre Rieko Ioane will join Irish powerhouse Leinster next season and, in doing so, attempt to traverse the rare realm from villain to world-class recruit.

Ioane remains committed to the All Blacks through to the 2027 World Cup but, as is now commonplace with senior New Zealand rugby players, he has a sabbatical clause in his contract that allows him to skip one Super Rugby Pacific season with the Blues to spend six months abroad.

[Dan54]

Good move by Ioane. I convinced this (like Jordies) this is done with NZR's approval. I think I read when Jordie went to Leinster, NZR reps met with Leinster and mapped out a rough playing schedule, so he came back in reasonable nick for AB's season. This kind of thing is a win win for everyone.
I also kind of like that Reiko has chosen going to Leinster, and not for easier out of a season in Japan.

[Kiwias]

Do we think Leinster will use Ioane at 13 or 11?

[Guy Smiley]

Playing him on the wing would be great craic