The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Where goats go to escape
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Yr Alban
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mos_eisely_ wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:25 am So young Darcy now has 14 tries in 14 games for Scotland
He doesn’t. He has 7 tries in 12 games (1 v Wales, 2 v England and 4 v Georgia). There was a slightly misleading stat about how many tries he had scored at Murrayfield, but that included for Edinburgh.

Someone has to break the try-scoring record though. Ian Smith and Tony Stanger both scored 24, which is paltry in international terms. Hogg is currently sitting on 20. Seymour got 20, but has now retired. Maitland has 15, but how many more games will he get?

Edit: had a look at a few other players. Huw Jones has 10 tries, Kinghorn 8 and Bennett 6.
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Caley_Red wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:52 am
Jock42 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:07 am
Caley_Red wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:25 am

Is the Cardiff match being played in an empty stadium? That would significantly improve our chances.
Think its an empty parc y scarlets
Adding to the post-Gatland period, you've got to say this is a (relatively) good chance for us. However, I'm overly cautious after that 2018 debacle- fancied us to win that. Not even the 10 pints I consumed in the Pirates Sports Bar in Jo'burg that day could wash away those memories; made the additional error of telling my saffer mates (pre-match) that I thought we were good for the win. My, how they laughed.

Defence is far superior now so we'll have to wait and see.
I was beginning to believe it could happen in March. I am expecting them to revert to type next week given how the pro sides have started the season.
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Not bad considering how many involved with Scotland.

Interested to see how Blain goes.
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Sexton just threw an interception vs Italy. Presumably he isn’t good enough to make the Lions squad on that basis?
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Jock42 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:43 pm
Not bad considering how many involved with Scotland.

Interested to see how Blain goes.
Me too. Also looking forward to seeing Boyle, he was a beast at U20 level
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That loss was pretty poor from Glasgow after the start
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So, Wales got an absolute spanking from France and look as weak as they have in some time. Scotland coming into the game off the back of an easy win, with four European and Premier double winners still to add to the squad.

It’s the hope that kills you.
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Yr Alban
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KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:57 pm So, Wales got an absolute spanking from France and look as weak as they have in some time. Scotland coming into the game off the back of an easy win, with four European and Premier double winners still to add to the squad.

It’s the hope that kills you.
Ain’t it just.

On paper this looks like a good shout for a Scotland win. But every time I think that (especially v Wales) all the wheels fall off.
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Tichtheid
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I'd feel happier going in to next week's game with more certainty on our centres and number 8, elsewhere I think we are fine, fine in that we know who most of the picks will be and if it isn't them the next guy isn't a big drop off.

If Bradbury can play a big game tomorrow then he might get the call, though he's listed at 6. Haining has been good for Scotland, I'm still to be convinced by Fagerson at international level. CdP did okay last night, but it's a different ball game to next week.
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Tichtheid wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:12 pm I'd feel happier going in to next week's game with more certainty on our centres and number 8, elsewhere I think we are fine, fine in that we know who most of the picks will be and if it isn't them the next guy isn't a big drop off.

If Bradbury can play a big game tomorrow then he might get the call, though he's listed at 6. Haining has been good for Scotland, I'm still to be convinced by Fagerson at international level. CdP did okay last night, but it's a different ball game to next week.
We really do have the best collection of centres we’ve ever had, and yet only half of them ever seem to be available.
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Don't want to piss on anyone's Porridge but the France - Wales match was about 3 levels of intensity & physicality than the Scotland run out against a very poor Georgia

I suspect Wales learnt a lot more today than Scotland did yesterday

Although France were worthy winners , Wales were very competitive

Take away the couple of pieces of brilliance by Dupont and Thomas , and the fact that Biggar missed two penalties and a conversion , and Tomkins stupidity on the penalty at 75 minutes and the score would have been a lot closer ( yeh I know if my aunty had balls ...... ) but Wales will be no rollover next weekend

BTW - Glasgow were gash tonight - The only couple of players who got pass marks were Dobie and Jones ( Jones is class , even though he is still a better 13 , than 15

Gray snr & Johnson were totally anonymous - they obviously both lack game time , but at the moment , on the basis of tonight , neither should be in a Scotland shirt
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Tichtheid
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Dogbert wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:52 pm Don't want to piss on anyone's Porridge but the France - Wales match was about 3 levels of intensity & physicality than the Scotland run out against a very poor Georgia

I suspect Wales learnt a lot more today than Scotland did yesterday

Although France were worthy winners , Wales were very competitive

Take away the couple of pieces of brilliance by Dupont and Thomas , and the fact that Biggar missed two penalties and a conversion , and Tomkins stupidity on the penalty at 75 minutes and the score would have been a lot closer ( yeh I know if my aunty had balls ...... ) but Wales will be no rollover next weekend

BTW - Glasgow were gash tonight - The only couple of players who got pass marks were Dobie and Jones ( Jones is class , even though he is still a better 13 , than 15

Gray snr & Johnson were totally anonymous - they obviously both lack game time , but at the moment , on the basis of tonight , neither should be in a Scotland shirt


I agree in the difference in level in the two games, but tonight Wales looked utilitarian at best, oftentimes their best attacking gambit was roosting the pill into the air and see what happens. They looked plodding and lifeless.

I'm not saying we will win, we tend not to, but I thought Wales were pish this evening, France were nearly good and ran out easy winners.
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Wales looked like a side well past their sell by date. Old and ponderous. Was also surprised at how much ground France made by just running straight at them.

We have to fancy our chances against that.

In saying that, Dupont.... best player in the world at the moment?
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Slick wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:40 am Wales looked like a side well past their sell by date. Old and ponderous. Was also surprised at how much ground France made by just running straight at them.

We have to fancy our chances against that.

In saying that, Dupont.... best player in the world at the moment?
Dupont is unreal, he just might be. I think he's up there with Smith and Faf but probably with a better running game. Vakatawa might be for me, his offloading is indecent at times and he's a large large man with serious athleticism. I can't help feel as he's french he's a bit underrated. Is Radradra that much better than Vakatawa or does he just play in England?

Wales were kept in the game by French indiscipline but I think it's a very even game next week with Wales as favourites because they always beat us. Rees-Zammit is a monster too.
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I like neeps wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:17 am
Slick wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:40 am Wales looked like a side well past their sell by date. Old and ponderous. Was also surprised at how much ground France made by just running straight at them.

We have to fancy our chances against that.

In saying that, Dupont.... best player in the world at the moment?

Wales were kept in the game by French indiscipline but I think it's a very even game next week with Wales as favourites because they always beat us. Rees-Zammit is a monster too.
No Scotland have to be favourites now. We’ve completely forgotten how to defend and our attack is similar to gatland. Whether it not it eventually clicks I don’t know (doubt it) but it won’t by next week. A lot of chatter in wales about getting rid of pivac already
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RBear wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:49 am
I like neeps wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:17 am
Slick wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:40 am Wales looked like a side well past their sell by date. Old and ponderous. Was also surprised at how much ground France made by just running straight at them.

We have to fancy our chances against that.

In saying that, Dupont.... best player in the world at the moment?

Wales were kept in the game by French indiscipline but I think it's a very even game next week with Wales as favourites because they always beat us. Rees-Zammit is a monster too.
No Scotland have to be favourites now. We’ve completely forgotten how to defend and our attack is similar to gatland. Whether it not it eventually clicks I don’t know (doubt it) but it won’t by next week. A lot of chatter in wales about getting rid of pivac already
Ah yes, but you are playing a side who are the experts at snatching glorious defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Having watched the highlights I don't think Scotland were quite as lacklustre as I was thinking after the match. Still got J Grey, Hogg and Maitland to come back. Bound to throw in a shocker against Wales though.

Dobie (very impressed) and Jones were my picks from the Glasgow match. Be interesting to see what Embra B come up with tonight.
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WTF is happening with the Pro teams? Embra currently down 20-7 AT HOME to Connacht.
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Tichtheid
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In the space of a few weeks we've gone from semi finalists to conference whipping boys.

Desperately looking for positives, Kunavula looks the part, a decent run of games and he could rival Big Bill.

Jack Blain also looked very good.

Carmichael made it through his comeback
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Pyrgos seemed to bring some organisation and urgency when he came back on, hopefully he has been the missing link otherwise I don't really know what to say....
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Yr Alban wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:16 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:12 pm I'd feel happier going in to next week's game with more certainty on our centres and number 8, elsewhere I think we are fine, fine in that we know who most of the picks will be and if it isn't them the next guy isn't a big drop off.

If Bradbury can play a big game tomorrow then he might get the call, though he's listed at 6. Haining has been good for Scotland, I'm still to be convinced by Fagerson at international level. CdP did okay last night, but it's a different ball game to next week.
We really do have the best collection of centres we’ve ever had, and yet only half of them ever seem to be available.
I know you keep saying this, but I am not sure that is true. All our centres bar Hutchison are available and the best (in GTs opinion) we could put out was Lang and Harris. We might has a deeper pool of players with less of a drop off than before but the top end continually seem to be lacking in some way or another. So much so that one has been punted to 15. Scott has been poor for the Tigers since his move.
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For the Wales game I don't think it should be a given than Gray gets the start. Skinner was excellent on Saturday and Toolis is very good in the set piece. I would probably still start Gray but it isn't a given.

I don't rate our hookers that highly, for me the GB+I hookers aren't a strong group so they look better than they are in comparison. Brown is definitely ahead of Rambo.
Sutherland and Fagerson are playing well which is great to see. Should be clearly 1st choice.
I guess Haining is next in line at 8.

Price and Finn pick themselves. Hastings wasn't better than OK on Friday, but none of the backs bar Darcy were IMO.
Toony tombola time for the centres. Johnson and Jones would be my pick but it wont be GTs.
Thought Duhan looked nervy at times which is understandable. He, Graham and Hogg would be my back 3.

Edinburgh are terrible right now. Connacht scored some decent tries.
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Big D wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:21 am For the Wales game I don't think it should be a given than Gray gets the start. Skinner was excellent on Saturday and Toolis is very good in the set piece. I would probably still start Gray but it isn't a given.

I don't rate our hookers that highly, for me the GB+I hookers aren't a strong group so they look better than they are in comparison. Brown is definitely ahead of Rambo.
Sutherland and Fagerson are playing well which is great to see. Should be clearly 1st choice.
I guess Haining is next in line at 8.

Price and Finn pick themselves. Hastings wasn't better than OK on Friday, but none of the backs bar Darcy were IMO.
Toony tombola time for the centres. Johnson and Jones would be my pick but it wont be GTs.
Thought Duhan looked nervy at times which is understandable. He, Graham and Hogg would be my back 3.

Edinburgh are terrible right now. Connacht scored some decent tries.
Agree with all of that except Price. I don't see him as ahead of Horne
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Tichtheid wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:26 pm In the space of a few weeks we've gone from semi finalists to conference whipping boys.

Desperately looking for positives, Kunavula looks the part, a decent run of games and he could rival Big Bill.

Jack Blain also looked very good.

Carmichael made it through his comeback
It was very disappointing - however Connacht scored 3 tries that might be considered speculative; each was brilliantly finished but on another day none would have come off. I suppose there is a small bit of comfort there. I think Edinburgh really suffered from the disallowed try too - the momentum swing there was massive both having the try chalked off for what was by the letter of the law an obstruction but which was definitely a common enough blocking line, and secondly to then concede a cheap and slightly contentious penalty immediately at the other end. They went from right in it to chasing the game in less than a minute.

On the positive side, Jack Blain was indeed very good. He straightened the line extremely well, has a good step and went looking for work around the park. Given he is a winger rather than a fullback, I thought his defensive positioning was very good. He is only 20 and already a decent size. Working on his physicality with Duhan and the more elusive side of the game with Darcy every day will do him no harm at all. I hope he can usurp Sau, Hoyland and Farndale over the course of the season to be the first reserve for any of Kinghorn, Darcy and Duhan.

I thought Andrew Davidson was good too. He had a few lost lineouts (hard to say if his fault or poor throwing) but he also stole a number and was abrasive around the park. He could also cement his place as a first reserve if he continues to play like that.
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Biffer wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:31 am
Big D wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:21 am For the Wales game I don't think it should be a given than Gray gets the start. Skinner was excellent on Saturday and Toolis is very good in the set piece. I would probably still start Gray but it isn't a given.

I don't rate our hookers that highly, for me the GB+I hookers aren't a strong group so they look better than they are in comparison. Brown is definitely ahead of Rambo.
Sutherland and Fagerson are playing well which is great to see. Should be clearly 1st choice.
I guess Haining is next in line at 8.

Price and Finn pick themselves. Hastings wasn't better than OK on Friday, but none of the backs bar Darcy were IMO.
Toony tombola time for the centres. Johnson and Jones would be my pick but it wont be GTs.
Thought Duhan looked nervy at times which is understandable. He, Graham and Hogg would be my back 3.

Edinburgh are terrible right now. Connacht scored some decent tries.
Agree with all of that except Price. I don't see him as ahead of Horne
I see them as complimentary, Price starts and Horne finishes. I don't think there is a big gap but Horne hasn't really gotten it done in his rare starts. Price has played a lot more rugby with Finn too. Wouldn't be upset either way though.
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Big D wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:21 am For the Wales game I don't think it should be a given than Gray gets the start. Skinner was excellent on Saturday and Toolis is very good in the set piece. I would probably still start Gray but it isn't a given.

I don't rate our hookers that highly, for me the GB+I hookers aren't a strong group so they look better than they are in comparison. Brown is definitely ahead of Rambo.
Sutherland and Fagerson are playing well which is great to see. Should be clearly 1st choice.
I guess Haining is next in line at 8.

Price and Finn pick themselves. Hastings wasn't better than OK on Friday, but none of the backs bar Darcy were IMO.
Toony tombola time for the centres. Johnson and Jones would be my pick but it wont be GTs.
Thought Duhan looked nervy at times which is understandable. He, Graham and Hogg would be my back 3.

Edinburgh are terrible right now. Connacht scored some decent tries.
Agree with all of that. Interesting to see Skinner start in the Premiership final with Gray coming off the bench (although to be fair it was the other way round in the Champions Cup last week).

I'd go Sutherland; Brown; Z Fagerson; Cummings; J Gray; Ritchie; Watson; M Fagerson; Hogg, Graham; Jones; Johnson; McMerwe; Russell; Price with subs McInally; Kebble; Berghan; Skinner; Haining; Horne; Hastings; Kinghorn.

This is assuming that Maitland is on the naughty step. Toolis is great in the line out but doesn't bring too much in the loose, so he misses out.
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Tichtheid wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:26 pm In the space of a few weeks we've gone from semi finalists to conference whipping boys.

Desperately looking for positives, Kunavula looks the part, a decent run of games and he could rival Big Bill.

Jack Blain also looked very good.

Carmichael made it through his comeback
Honking team performance although I would add Davidson to the list of positives.

Something's not right with the defensive structure and we don't really help ourselves by slowing the game down so much.
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Pluses for me were Blain and Davidson.

9 and lineout throws were a shitfest, not Davidson's fault.
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clydecloggie
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Just watched the highlights of the France - Wales game from the weekend.

What was once an Edwards-drilled impenetrable red line moving forward at speed is now a disjointed collection of dots caught in no-man's land. Biggar had a shocker in defence, waving through a few decisive line breaks. Definitely fertile ground for any team with a fly half who knows how to unlock defences.

But we've been here before. Wales by 18.
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I was planning on watching the Edinburgh game later today, think I'll give it a miss now :wtf:

On to Saturday and I still think Wales are favourites. Even if they are in a bit of a rough patch it's still a home game for them and we can always be relied upon to fuck it up down here.
So I squares up, casual like.
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as far as Edinburgh goes it's the Penalties that did for us, to many brain farts and loss of promising positions....
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Begbie wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:31 pm I was planning on watching the Edinburgh game later today, think I'll give it a miss now :wtf:

On to Saturday and I still think Wales are favourites. Even if they are in a bit of a rough patch it's still a home game for them and we can always be relied upon to fuck it up down here.
Agreed.

I don't see how we can be favourites. We have a stinking away record in the 6N v any one not named Italy.
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Big D wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:13 am
Yr Alban wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:16 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:12 pm I'd feel happier going in to next week's game with more certainty on our centres and number 8, elsewhere I think we are fine, fine in that we know who most of the picks will be and if it isn't them the next guy isn't a big drop off.

If Bradbury can play a big game tomorrow then he might get the call, though he's listed at 6. Haining has been good for Scotland, I'm still to be convinced by Fagerson at international level. CdP did okay last night, but it's a different ball game to next week.
We really do have the best collection of centres we’ve ever had, and yet only half of them ever seem to be available.
I know you keep saying this, but I am not sure that is true. All our centres bar Hutchison are available and the best (in GTs opinion) we could put out was Lang and Harris. We might has a deeper pool of players with less of a drop off than before but the top end continually seem to be lacking in some way or another. So much so that one has been punted to 15. Scott has been poor for the Tigers since his move.
Taylor isn’t available either, though I can entirely understand forgetting this given that he is hardly ever fit.

Other than that, you may be right. Scott and Bennett seemed surplus to requirements, Johnson and Jones struggling for form; Dunbar retired.

Edit: can’t for the life of me think why the hell Glasgow insist on playing Jones at 15. He has no chance of playing there for Scotland unless Hogg, Kinghorn and Maitland are all unavailable, and we are desperate for centres. If he has to play back 3, we’d be better off putting him on the wing.
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As expected, Maitland has been axed from Scotland duty following his BaaBaa Humbug exploits.

Tagive called into the squad, but Graham and McMerwe nailed on to start against Wales, you'd think.
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clydecloggie wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm As expected, Maitland has been axed from Scotland duty following his BaaBaa Humbug exploits.

Tagive called into the squad, but Graham and McMerwe nailed on to start against Wales, you'd think.
Toony said Maitland’s been excluded due to Covid protocols. He didn’t entirely rule out bringing him back in later in the series of matches. It’ll definitely be Darcy and Duhan though.
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clydecloggie wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm As expected, Maitland has been axed from Scotland duty following his BaaBaa Humbug exploits.

Tagive called into the squad, but Graham and McMerwe nailed on to start against Wales, you'd think.
I would hope so. Although I do think we need to be patient with VdM.
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Yr Alban wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:45 pm
Big D wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:13 am
Yr Alban wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:16 pm

We really do have the best collection of centres we’ve ever had, and yet only half of them ever seem to be available.
I know you keep saying this, but I am not sure that is true. All our centres bar Hutchison are available and the best (in GTs opinion) we could put out was Lang and Harris. We might has a deeper pool of players with less of a drop off than before but the top end continually seem to be lacking in some way or another. So much so that one has been punted to 15. Scott has been poor for the Tigers since his move.
Taylor isn’t available either, though I can entirely understand forgetting this given that he is hardly ever fit.

Other than that, you may be right. Scott and Bennett seemed surplus to requirements, Johnson and Jones struggling for form; Dunbar retired.

Edit: can’t for the life of me think why the hell Glasgow insist on playing Jones at 15. He has no chance of playing there for Scotland unless Hogg, Kinghorn and Maitland are all unavailable, and we are desperate for centres. If he has to play back 3, we’d be better off putting him on the wing.
Wot? When did Dunbar retire? That can't be right, surely he has plenty left to offer - he's only 30 ffs.
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Big D wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:44 am
clydecloggie wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm As expected, Maitland has been axed from Scotland duty following his BaaBaa Humbug exploits.

Tagive called into the squad, but Graham and McMerwe nailed on to start against Wales, you'd think.
I would hope so. Although I do think we need to be patient with VdM.
Georgia clearly had him marked down as a danger man and were often putting 3 or 4 defenders on him of which generally at least one was a forward - the wide players for Georgia rarely offered much in attack with most of the Georgian play very narrow. Against Wales it will be very different as Wales will be attacking down the wings - there will be far more space to counter into and also there will be far more mismatches with him running at single isolated backs. With the exception of North, Wales' wings are 13/14 stone, so Duhan will potentially have quite the physical advantage.
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KingBlairhorn wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:57 am
Big D wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:44 am
clydecloggie wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:10 pm As expected, Maitland has been axed from Scotland duty following his BaaBaa Humbug exploits.

Tagive called into the squad, but Graham and McMerwe nailed on to start against Wales, you'd think.
I would hope so. Although I do think we need to be patient with VdM.
Georgia clearly had him marked down as a danger man and were often putting 3 or 4 defenders on him of which generally at least one was a forward - the wide players for Georgia rarely offered much in attack with most of the Georgian play very narrow. Against Wales it will be very different as Wales will be attacking down the wings - there will be far more space to counter into and also there will be far more mismatches with him running at single isolated backs. With the exception of North, Wales' wings are 13/14 stone, so Duhan will potentially have quite the physical advantage.
But he will also be challenged in ways he hasn't often been at Edinburgh. Especially defensively.

He isn't going to find international rugby as easy as club level and the defences he will face will be better. All I am saying is we should be patient, he is still quite raw and will almost certainly make mistakes.
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Big D wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:01 am
KingBlairhorn wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:57 am
Big D wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:44 am

I would hope so. Although I do think we need to be patient with VdM.
Georgia clearly had him marked down as a danger man and were often putting 3 or 4 defenders on him of which generally at least one was a forward - the wide players for Georgia rarely offered much in attack with most of the Georgian play very narrow. Against Wales it will be very different as Wales will be attacking down the wings - there will be far more space to counter into and also there will be far more mismatches with him running at single isolated backs. With the exception of North, Wales' wings are 13/14 stone, so Duhan will potentially have quite the physical advantage.
But he will also be challenged in ways he hasn't often been at Edinburgh. Especially defensively.

He isn't going to find international rugby as easy as club level and the defences he will face will be better. All I am saying is we should be patient, he is still quite raw and will almost certainly make mistakes.
In time, i'm willing to bet that he'll be much better than Visser and he was, though not great, not bad at int'l level. I fancy him to come of age quite quickly in the international game. .
And on the 7th day, the Lord said "Let there be Finn Russell".
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