Tri Nations: Wallabies vs All Blacks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 7th Nov

[Certain Navigator]

Beaudy was fucking gash.

Shovel shovel shovel. Directionless.

Outpointed for worst AB back marginally by TJ the ponderous prick Perenara.

The depressing thing is that it was glaringly obvious by halftime that Perenara just isn't up to it, and then he got to play for another 30+ minutes. While all of BB's well-known deficiencies as a 10 were clearly on display, they'd be less of an issue outside a halfway-decent 9.

Perenara needs to be given an expedited ticket to Japan, along with instructions never to return.

[Wild Beef]

Wouldn’t be stupid enough to treat the 10/12/13 in isolation. For starters, our 9 was shit.

That said, BB was on the wrong side of average apart from the odd highlight. The same could be said for most of the team. I think this was less a case of the ten needing to take control and more a case of the captain and senior players needing to settle the team (of which BB is one).

I short, he was poor. But I get annoyed that a lot of people (in and outside this forum) seem to have taken this opportunity to lay into him. He’s getting blamed more than the people who were carded!

[Carter's Choice]

Foster needs to change the guard at halfback. We have some absolute guns in NZ who play at 9, but they can't get a look in for the AB's. I'm thinking of Finlay Christie, Mitch Drummond, Foau Fakatava and Jamie Booth are guns, and need to be given opportunities. TJP looks complacent.

[Wild Beef]

I was gutted TJP played badly. He is a fantastic ambassador for rugby off the field.

[Carter's Choice]

Wouldn’t be stupid enough to treat the 10/12/13 in isolation. For starters, our 9 was shit.

That said, BB was on the wrong side of average apart from the odd highlight. The same could be said for most of the team. I think this was less a case of the ten needing to take control and more a case of the captain and senior players needing to settle the team (of which BB is one).

I short, he was poor. But I get annoyed that a lot of people (in and outside this forum) seem to have taken this opportunity to lay into him. He’s getting blamed more than the people who were carded!

Canes fans were gleeful in their criticism of Mo'unga after Bledisloe Cup I and II. Yet you don't like anyone criticising BB regardless of how he plays. That's hypocritical.

[Certain Navigator]

From an ABs perspective for mine:
Richie proven best 10
Don't think Reiko's going to cut it at 13. It's either wing or bust.
I'm a big TJ fan but he's not having his best season for whatever reason. Need to see more of Webber.
Akira deserves another shot.
Court is still out on Reece for me. Some dumb penalties there.
Not sure Lumpy is going to cut it as an AB 12. Goodhue mixed up bash, step and distribution better.

Reece did some good things offset by a couple of dumb things, but both he and Laumape looked like players who hadn't had a game for months, and both were additionally handicapped by the tomfoolery going on inside and around them. Hard to judge on the basis of this one game.

I always look at the forwards first and the loosies (including Ioane) were decent, as were the two locks (apart from SB's brain-fade, which now seems to be a regular occurrence) and Taylor. But prop is a real problem — when Moody and Laulala are absent, the cupboard is bare.

[Trapper]

Beaudy was fucking gash.

Shovel shovel shovel. Directionless.

Outpointed for worst AB back marginally by TJ the ponderous prick Perenara.

The depressing thing is that it was glaringly obvious by halftime that Perenara just isn't up to it, and then he got to play for another 30+ minutes. While all of BB's well-known deficiencies as a 10 were clearly on display, they'd be less of an issue outside a halfway-decent 9.

Perenara needs to be given an expedited ticket to Japan, along with instructions never to return.

Yeah, Webber coming on with less than 5 minute to go was just bullshit.

The Aussies pretty much played as I expected and rattled us, I knew it was coming and they deserve a hell of a lot of credit for the amount of pressure they put on the ABs. It’s the same old story, if teams get up in our faces, muscle up, we can’t seem to handle it. BB can’t handle that kind of defence, Aussies knew it and well, we all saw what happened. I don’t know what to say about TJ but he should have been hooked after 20 minutes, completely lost his composure. The TMO and ref situation has got to change it didn’t help either team with so many stoppages often to check nothing at all. We were shit, officials were shit but the Aussies showed grit and determination that we seem to be missing.

[Certain Navigator]

Jordan could barely handle 5 minutes of hard international Rugby. He's too green for me and would have made no difference.

Sevu Reece should never put on another black Jersey.

Reiko also can fuck off to the bench. If it weren't for his speed he would be the first axing.

Perenara poor on attack, but his cover defence saved us multiple times when Wallabies made half a break.

BB needs to fall in line and go to fullback. He's not giving Lumpy quality pill

Jordie didn't have a great game but wasn't the problem.

ALB had a fairly bad game, have away some silly penalties.

The front rows were terrible, they all need to fuck off.

Scott Barrett makes up a trio of on field fuck ups.

Sam 1 and 2 and Ardie wore the Jersey with pride

Judging players on the basis of their first game in months, especially when that game lasted less than 5 minutes, is not very wise. Those who can be judged are the serial offenders — Perenara, BB and JB — whose various frailties were all well and truly on display again last night. BB needs to be kept away from 10 while the other two need to be kept away from the team entirely.

The props were again sub-standard, but (with the possible exception of Hodgman) it's common knowledge that's not going to change. Pray for Moody and Laulala to remain available and injury-free.

[Wild Beef]

Wouldn’t be stupid enough to treat the 10/12/13 in isolation. For starters, our 9 was shit.

That said, BB was on the wrong side of average apart from the odd highlight. The same could be said for most of the team. I think this was less a case of the ten needing to take control and more a case of the captain and senior players needing to settle the team (of which BB is one).

I short, he was poor. But I get annoyed that a lot of people (in and outside this forum) seem to have taken this opportunity to lay into him. He’s getting blamed more than the people who were carded!

Canes fans were gleeful in their criticism of Mo'unga after Bledisloe Cup I and II. Yet you don't like anyone criticising BB regardless of how he plays. That's hypocritical.

If I criticised Mo’unga it would be hypocritical but I don’t think I did. I certainly didn’t argue he wasn’t our best ten. Players have up and down games.

I certainly didn’t say he should fuck off to Japan like many are now saying about BB.

[Guy Smiley]

Both Smith and Perenara have been slow around the rucks and off their best...

anyone giving any credit to Nic White for dominating them to the point of distraction and being a real point of difference in the two teams across all 4 games?

[Wild Beef]

Not enough credit going to the wallabies in general imo.

Anyone else extremely nervous when the wallabies are 5 out and the Tongan Thor is on the field?

[Trapper]

Not enough credit going to the wallabies in general imo.

Anyone else extremely nervous when the wallabies are 5 out and the Tongan Thor is on the field?

I’m giving plenty to the Wallabies, Rennie and Hooper. We crumbled under pressure again.

[Carter's Choice]

So we were the width of a goal post away from a drawn Bledisloe Cup series? Against a rookie Wallabies team who have a brand new coach? This is going to be a long 4 years under Foster

[Sandstorm]

Both Smith and Perenara have been slow around the rucks and off their best...

anyone giving any credit to Nic White for dominating them to the point of distraction and being a real point of difference in the two teams across all 4 games?

White is a tortoise. He’s shite.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Beaudy was fucking gash.

Shovel shovel shovel. Directionless.

Outpointed for worst AB back marginally by TJ the ponderous prick Perenara.

The depressing thing is that it was glaringly obvious by halftime that Perenara just isn't up to it, and then he got to play for another 30+ minutes. While all of BB's well-known deficiencies as a 10 were clearly on display, they'd be less of an issue outside a halfway-decent 9.

Perenara needs to be given an expedited ticket to Japan, along with instructions never to return.

Brutal.

[Gumboot]

Not enough credit going to the wallabies in general imo.

Agreed.


Our scrum's a major concern, imo. Isn't that Feek's department?

[Dan54]

Not enough credit going to the wallabies in general imo.

Anyone else extremely nervous when the wallabies are 5 out and the Tongan Thor is on the field?

Couldn't agree with that more. There are some pretty arrogant people here who think other teams are not capable of being better than ABs. ABs are not entitled to win every test, it's why we call them tests!

[Jb1981]

Not enough credit going to the wallabies in general imo.

Anyone else extremely nervous when the wallabies are 5 out and the Tongan Thor is on the field?

Couldn't agree with that more. There are some pretty arrogant people here who think other teams are not capable of being better than ABs. ABs are not entitled to win every test, it's why we call them tests!

Sensible words. It makes the wholesale changes more puzzling.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Not enough credit going to the wallabies in general imo.

Anyone else extremely nervous when the wallabies are 5 out and the Tongan Thor is on the field?

Couldn't agree with that more. There are some pretty arrogant people here who think other teams are not capable of being better than ABs. ABs are not entitled to win every test, it's why we call them tests!

Sensible words. It makes the wholesale changes more puzzling.

That's it. It's all very well to lose to a deserving Wallabies side, but when you contribute to the defeat by picking a raft of back up players it is somewhat galling.

Earlier I said I was relaxed about the changes and we needed to give other guys a run, but it also helped the Wallabies win.

[Hong Kong]

TLDR: what’s been said about the red cards?

[sban052]

TLDR: what’s been said about the red cards?

IMO they were warranted. Player welfare is crucial. I think the main problem is that it doesn't have to destroy a game. E.g. A red card could be the player is taken off the game, but can be replaced by a bench player after 10 minutes, along with a further match missed and review for further penalty to the player. It makes no sense to me that the same offence in the first few minutes of a test vs towards the end of the game should have such a dramatic difference with regards to the cost to the team.

[FujiKiwi]

This is going to be a long 4 years under Foster

That's pie-in-the sky optimism.

Foster will get 8 years before handing the team off to an aging Scott McLeod.

[Dan54]

Foster needs to change the guard at halfback. We have some absolute guns in NZ who play at 9, but they can't get a look in for the AB's. I'm thinking of Finlay Christie, Mitch Drummond, Foau Fakatava and Jamie Booth are guns, and need to be given opportunities. TJP looks complacent.

I a bit of a fan of both Booth and Fakatava who I reckon got a pretty bright future. Especially watching the shield game just now to remind me.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

This is going to be a long 4 years under Foster

That's pie-in-the sky optimism.

Foster will get 8 years before handing the team off to an aging Scott McLeod.

Forget about the best candidate for the job when you can give it to your assistant in the name of succession planning.

[Gumboot]

Foster needs to change the guard at halfback. We have some absolute guns in NZ who play at 9, but they can't get a look in for the AB's. I'm thinking of Finlay Christie, Mitch Drummond, Foau Fakatava and Jamie Booth are guns, and need to be given opportunities. TJP looks complacent.

I a bit of a fan of both Booth and Fakatava who I reckon got a pretty bright future. Especially watching the shield game just now to remind me.

Fakatava looks the goods, all right. Terrific young player.

[stemoc]

fakatava reminds me of Niko Matawalu, one of those rare halfbacks who can win a game on their own but is usually so quick that their own players have no idea what he is doing..this backfired on Niko so he was shifted to wing and to be fair to niko, he played or teams that had slow thinking players, he was excellent at 9 for fiji all his career..lets hope fakatava is able to maintain this level for the next decade

[Gumboot]

I reckon Fakatava has the best pass of any NZ halfback not called Aaron Smith.

[stemoc]

I reckon Fakatava has the best pass of any NZ halfback not called Aaron Smith.

did u see that video of aaron on one feet on one of those gym toys making perfect passes to TJ?

[Gumboot]

Nope

[Trapper]

This is going to be a long 4 years under Foster

That's pie-in-the sky optimism.

Foster will get 8 years before handing the team off to an aging Scott McLeod.

He’s on a 2 year contract isn’t he? I get the feeling it won’t be extended if he ends with 50% record as he has now. It’s jut not good enough. Come on down Razor!

[mrbrownstone]

A few observations from being at the game:

- Beauden's kicking game was immensely frustrating. Mo'unga is so clearly our best 10.

- Jordie looked unsteady under the high ball in perfect conditions, and was caught in the main defensive line a couple of times, leaving us exposed at the back.

-Why don't we use Jordie's long boot to clear?

-Our proping depth is extremely weak at the moment with Laulala and Moody unavailable, and it showed in the second half when we had two test rookies on.

-Packing the bench with rookies came back to bite us, as we didn't have the confidence to use them in a tight game.

-Laumape looked ineffective with ball in hand.

-Scott Barrett needs to sort out his discipline at test level.

-Our lineout is functioning okay, but not great. It looks a lot more vulnerable without Brodie and Keiran Read.

-Not scoring against 13 men just before half time probably cost us the game.

[Kiwias]

Nope

It is on the All Blacks' fb page and I can't find a way to copy the link.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

A few observations from being at the game:

- Beauden's kicking game was immensely frustrating. Mo'unga is so clearly our best 10.

- Jordie looked unsteady under the high ball in perfect conditions, and was caught in the main defensive line a couple of times, leaving us exposed at the back.

-Why don't we use Jordie's long boot to clear?

-Our proping depth is extremely weak at the moment with Laulala and Moody unavailable, and it showed in the second half when we had two test rookies on.

-Packing the bench with rookies came back to bite us, as we didn't have the confidence to use them in a tight game.

-Laumape looked ineffective with ball in hand.

-Scott Barrett needs to sort out his discipline at test level.

-Our lineout is functioning okay, but not great. It looks a lot more vulnerable without Brodie and Keiran Read.

-Not scoring against 13 men just before half time probably cost us the game.

An astute post.

[Ted.]

A few observations from being at the game:

- Beauden's kicking game was immensely frustrating. Mo'unga is so clearly our best 10.

- Jordie looked unsteady under the high ball in perfect conditions, and was caught in the main defensive line a couple of times, leaving us exposed at the back.

-Why don't we use Jordie's long boot to clear?

-Our proping depth is extremely weak at the moment with Laulala and Moody unavailable, and it showed in the second half when we had two test rookies on.

-Packing the bench with rookies came back to bite us, as we didn't have the confidence to use them in a tight game.

-Laumape looked ineffective with ball in hand.

-Scott Barrett needs to sort out his discipline at test level.

-Our lineout is functioning okay, but not great. It looks a lot more vulnerable without Brodie and Keiran Read.

-Not scoring against 13 men just before half time probably cost us the game.

Agree with most of that and would add that TJ had his wirst game in black and should have been replaced by Weber soon after the half at the latest. Not exploiting Jordy's boot as Aussie did with Hodge was inexcusable.

I also thought that Big Barrett and Reece had mixed games compounded by discipline, Berry had lost the plot by that stage when he yellowed Barrett.

Lumpy, who was mostly quite, but not ugly, looked like a guy who should have come off the bench for a decent chunk to bring him up to speed. At least he showed he could kick!

[stemoc]

Will Jordan should be dropped for the rest of the season, sorry but there is no way he can be mentally fit after this..

[Not_Couch]

Will Jordan should be dropped for the rest of the season, sorry but there is no way he can be mentally fit after this..

Exactly

People calling for Will Jordan to start ahead of veterans should be eating their words. BB or JB shouldn't feel at all worried by this Johnny come lately.

International rugby separates the men from the boys.

And let's all be honest, if Sam Cane went for the post at halftime instead of the lineout we could be talking a close all black win here.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Will Jordan should be dropped for the rest of the season, sorry but there is no way he can be mentally fit after this..

Exactly

People calling for Will Jordan to start ahead of veterans should be eating their words. BB or JB shouldn't feel at all worried by this Johnny come lately.

International rugby separates the men from the boys.

And let's all be honest, if Sam Cane went for the post at halftime instead of the lineout we could be talking a close all black win here.

So you're judging Will Jordan by a 5 minute cameo yet are prepared to hand JB and BB an open deadline to prove their worth in their respective positions?

Seems legit.

[Jb1981]

The worst thing about that clip is the aimless kick from Barrett. It was a nothing kick that put us straight back under pressure.

The footage says absolutely nothing about Will Jordan. He got caught behind Hooper and on popping out Koroibete was on him. The fact people are seizing on this is an indictment on petty parochialism.

[Guy Smiley]

Will Jordan should be dropped for the rest of the season, sorry but there is no way he can be mentally fit after this..

Exactly

People calling for Will Jordan to start ahead of veterans should be eating their words. BB or JB shouldn't feel at all worried by this Johnny come lately.

International rugby separates the men from the boys.

And let's all be honest, if Sam Cane went for the post at halftime instead of the lineout we could be talking a close all black win here.

Wanker

[Not_Couch]

Will Jordan should be dropped for the rest of the season, sorry but there is no way he can be mentally fit after this..

Exactly

People calling for Will Jordan to start ahead of veterans should be eating their words. BB or JB shouldn't feel at all worried by this Johnny come lately.

International rugby separates the men from the boys.

And let's all be honest, if Sam Cane went for the post at halftime instead of the lineout we could be talking a close all black win here.

So you're judging Will Jordan by a 5 minute cameo yet are prepared to hand JB and BB an open deadline to prove their worth in their respective positions?

Seems legit.

The only ability worth a damn is availability.

Will Jordan needs to work on his defence technique to even be considered another start