What to do with Beauden Barrett?

[Steve]

Mo'unga is the best flyhallf in New Zealand .

Barrett has been the most electric/inspirational back/rugby player since 2015.

[Dan54]

I a Mounga fan, but if you or anyone thinks that BB has never been a top 10 you just showing your lack of knowledge of the game, he actually arguably out played RM yesterday, though bugger all in it.

In what way did he outplay Mo'unga? I'm interested to know what actions

Just in general terms, there was only a gnats balls in it, and it not a downer on Mounga, just thought in general BB looked to be a little better balanced (maybe his defence?),, but that could of been because RM was off field more with head knock etc, so I didn't see him as much' just had feeling he was a little better. Can't really say for sure without watching game and concentrating on the 2 players.. Also could very well of been because of having Smith at 9 for half the game too. I would have RM as my starting 10 (I would never pick a team on 1 game, especially as there was so little between them yesterday) but anyone who thinks we not in a pretty good place with either one of them starting is just taking the piss.

[Dan54]

Its a strange one foe me this year. I think Jordie is undroppable (still think he should have been kicking in 3rd Lions test). I think Will Jordan is undroppable, I think Mo'unga is undroppable and I think Beaudy is unleaveoutable.

Obviously that's all contradictory.

Almost sums it up Steve.

[Carter's Choice]

Last night once again showed how terrible BB is at no.10 unless his team is absolutely dominating in every single facet of the match. He created nothing except errors. He kicked away all our possession, poorly, and his stand and shovel routine created no challenges for what was a rookie Wallaby backline. He was outplayed by Reece Hodge.

[Enzedder]

The whole team was flat last night (even though Stuff handed out a lot of 7s and 8s). Agree that Barrett was poor but if the argument re Mo'unga in game 1 was that everyone was flat, the same should apply to last night.

HOWEVER - I totally agree that he isn't a good enough 10 for the ABs and we need to start a search for a new #2. Who is next cab off the rank though? (It ain't DMac either)

[Carter's Choice]

We need to start developing the next young AB no.10, because until Foster does that BB will be in the mix by default. Even if Foster does start to show more faith in Mo'unga, BB is an injury away from being our starting 10.

[Wild Beef]

The whole team was flat last night (even though Stuff handed out a lot of 7s and 8s). Agree that Barrett was poor but if the argument re Mo'unga in game 1 was that everyone was flat, the same should apply to last night.

HOWEVER - I totally agree that he isn't a good enough 10 for the ABs and we need to start a search for a new #2. Who is next cab off the rank though? (It ain't DMac either)

Largely agree with this, although I still think he’s good enough to be the backup 10. He is still second best in the country but there aren’t a great deal of challengers right now.

[Carter's Choice]

The whole team was flat last night (even though Stuff handed out a lot of 7s and 8s). Agree that Barrett was poor but if the argument re Mo'unga in game 1 was that everyone was flat, the same should apply to last night.

HOWEVER - I totally agree that he isn't a good enough 10 for the ABs and we need to start a search for a new #2. Who is next cab off the rank though? (It ain't DMac either)

Largely agree with this, although I still think he’s good enough to be the backup 10. He is still second best in the country but there aren’t a great deal of challengers right now.

You're still the top BB apologist, years after he has left your beloved Canes. Barrett wasn't even the best 10 for the Blues this year. Why would he be the 2nd best in NZ? We wouldn't know if there are any challengers because Foster has only picked one specialist 10 in his squad, backed up by two x factor fullbacks.

[Jb1981]

We need to start developing the next young AB no.10, because until Foster does that BB will be in the mix by default. Even if Foster does start to show more faith in Mo'unga, BB is an injury away from being our starting 10.

Is Barrett still due to miss the RC next year (assuming he can play in Japan)? If so, we’d be an injury away from god knows who being our starting 10. Some may see it as a position with depth but realistically we have one good option.

[Wild Beef]

Ioane is our next best but Im not convinced he’s anything but a stopgap tbh. West played well this year, if he kicks on next year...

[Carter's Choice]

Ioane is our next best but Im not convinced he’s anything but a stopgap tbh. West played well this year, if he kicks on next year...

West? I don't watch French Rugby so I couldn't comment.

[Wild Beef]

Black

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Josh Ioane should be the understudy 10. He's a seriously talented young five eighth.

[sban052]

Massive fan of Mounga. In saying that the problem lies with the tight five. Both Barrett and Mounga can look class in front of a dominating forward pack, and both can look lost when going backwards (England world cup game). Both Mounga and Barrett are fantastic options at 10, if only we can sort out the problems in front of them.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Massive fan of Mounga. In saying that the problem lies with the tight five. Both Barrett and Mounga can look class in front of a dominating forward pack, and both can look lost when going backwards (England world cup game). Both Mounga and Barrett are fantastic options at 10, if only we can sort out the problems in front of them.

In games when the packs are relatively even, that is most of them, Mo'unga is the far better 10.

[Jb1981]

In all games full stop, Mo’unga is the better 10. Doubly so when he isn’t having his game interfered with from the back as was starting to happen this year.

[Carter's Choice]

BB plays so much better for the AB's as a fullback. This entire debate is based around the fact that he'd prefer to wear one jersey number over another. That's pathetic.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I hope that in the selectors' meetings that I assume all three Barrett brothers are contractually entitled to attend, Beauden will come to the realisation that these days he plays his best footy at 15.

[el camino]

Otere Black is a nice guy but he doesn't have an attacking bone in his body. Not gonna be an All Black. Are there any young guys coming through? Hurricanes cupboard is bare.

Back to the 9's has anyone seen much of Xavier Roe? An article on Stuff mentioned him as the long term replacement for Aaron Smith. I've never heard of him. Heard a lot of hype about Fakatava tho (saw him for the first time on Sunday and he must be good if nobody has mentioned his haircut)

[Carter's Choice]

Otere Black is a nice guy but he doesn't have an attacking bone in his body. Not gonna be an All Black. Are there any young guys coming through? Hurricanes cupboard is bare.

Back to the 9's has anyone seen much of Xavier Roe? An article on Stuff mentioned him as the long term replacement for Aaron Smith. I've never heard of him. Heard a lot of hype about Fakatava tho (saw him for the first time on Sunday and he must be good if nobody has mentioned his haircut)

Otere Black has a style of play that could be very well suited to test rugby. Attacking first fives like Beauden Barrett aren't always well suited to tight, attritional test matches. Regardless, he looked better at 10 for the Blues than BB. Beauden Barrett is still getting picked as a first five based on 2016 form.

[Carter's Choice]

What does Beauden Barrett currently bring to our team at 15?

He has clearly lost the pace that made him an irresistible force for several years at test level. He didn't make single line break for the entire Tri Nations tournament, and last night he seemed intent on playing at first receiver whenever he could, crowding out the backline and constantly kicking the ball away with poorly executed short kicks.

I'm just not sure what he brings to our team anymore? With him and his carthorse of a brother at 14 we have the least potent back three in All Black history

[Flockwitt]

BB's had his run as a senior player on the field. It is time to shift him to the bench for mine on his return. He's ideal there, able to cover multiple positions as required and still effective in open play at the end of the game when things loosen up. For now the ABs need to build for the future and again BB is perfect on the bench. Somebody struggling? Bring on BB to steady the ship.

[Not_Couch]

What does Beauden Barrett currently bring to our team at 15?

He has clearly lost the pace that made him an irresistible force for several years at test level. He didn't make single line break for the entire Tri Nations tournament, and last night he seemed intent on playing at first receiver whenever he could, crowding out the backline and constantly kicking the ball away with poorly executed short kicks.

I'm just not sure what he brings to our team anymore? With him and his carthorse of a brother at 14 we have the least potent back three in All Black history

Our selectors are causing this. We don't need to keep BB in the squad, we don't need JB hogging his position, and SB is a liability also

I personally would like to see a Barrett less team for a whole entire season, just to get some new blood in and create some sort of cohesion and chemistry. Our midfield also needs work as I think individually they are good but together look like total strangers

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

BB's had his run as a senior player on the field. It is time to shift him to the bench for mine on his return. He's ideal there, able to cover multiple positions as required and still effective in open play at the end of the game when things loosen up. For now the ABs need to build for the future and again BB is perfect on the bench. Somebody struggling? Bring on BB to steady the ship.

Good shout. I agree.

[FujiKiwi]

Does Beauden ever "steady a ship"? Not that sort of player. He can—or at least he used to be able to—inject some brilliance from the bench when something special's needed.

But when things are falling to pieces, he can be just as much a liability as anything.

That said, for his creativity, I agree having him on the bench would be better for everyone including himself than having him start.

Will Jordan, Caleb Clarke and anyone but Jordie to be the starting back three.

[mrbrownstone]

He'll be 30 by the time he gets back from Japan. His pace is on the wane, and his form has been declining since 2017. I truly think the worst selection Hansen ever made was moving on Cruden based off a few flashy Barrett performances against crap French & Australian teams. He's clearly been surpassed by Mo'unga at first-five, and by his brother, Will Jordan, and possibly David Havili at fullback.

He'll always have that try in the 2015 WC final, and his back to back POTY award (no matter how undeserved the 2017 one was). Time to do the honorable thing and move to the bench, where he's always played his best rugby at test level.

[Carter's Choice]

Our back three, of which Beauden Barrett and Jordie Barrett have been permanent fixtures in all season, just lacks potency. They rely solely on opportunities being created for them. Historically All Black back three players have created opportunities for themselves. This hasn't happened this year. Neither player seems able to beat a defender with pace or footwork. Neither player has created a line break from broken play, or during counter attack. BB was a great runner but like all players , Father Time catches up with them. And Jordie Barrett is not a test winger's ring piece.

[FujiKiwi]

I have no time for Jordie. Super Rugby is as high an echelon as he should ever have reached.

Beauden Barrett is the greatest impact player of all time, and he, the team and all AB fans have been victims of that success.

[mrbrownstone]

I have no time for Jordie. Super Rugby is as high an echelon as he should ever have reached.

Beauden Barrett is the greatest impact player of all time, and he, the team and all AB fans have been victims of that success.

Aaron Cruden had been the best first-five in the world for large chunks of our dominant 2012-15 period, and was coming into his prime at 27 in 2016. Throwing him aside based off one flat track bully performance by BB against France was a huge mistake in hindsight. Should have never moved away from his super-sub role.

[FujiKiwi]

BB was just so good as a player coming off the bench. Many of us thought that if you can get such a great 20 minutes from him, how would 80 minutes not be four times as good?

Turns out, that's not the way it works.

[Wild Beef]

BB shat on the competition in 2016 and the selectors made their choice. Mocking that decision now is silly as we know how history panned out.

Cruden didn’t stick around to fight for his place so his fault as much as anyone imo.

[Monkey Magic]

Remember he was also doing some freakish things at 10 for the canes. As well as beat the sharks in the rain in a semi final through an outstanding kicking game

[Wild Beef]

BB was just so good as a player coming off the bench. Many of us thought that if you can get such a great 20 minutes from him, how would 80 minutes not be four times as good?

Turns out, that's not the way it works.

But it did work, in 2016. Enough for the coaches to think they had their man anyway.

[Wild Beef]

Remember he was also doing some freakish things at 10 for the canes. As well as beat the sharks in the rain in a semi final through an outstanding kicking game

Yes, I will never forget that. Anyone who thought he couldn’t control a wet game with his boot was silent after that. For a spell anyway.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Sure, BB has done great things in Super Rugby when the defence can sometimes give you all the time in the world.

Attritional test rugby is a very, very different beast as almost his entire body of work at 10 would attest.

[FujiKiwi]

BB was just so good as a player coming off the bench. Many of us thought that if you can get such a great 20 minutes from him, how would 80 minutes not be four times as good?

Turns out, that's not the way it works.

But it did work, in 2016. Enough for the coaches to think they had their man anyway.

Yes. This complicated things.

The failed Beauden Barrett experiment has more complexity than we bordies sometimes show when dissecting it. As pointed out, appreciation (or lack of) Aaron Cruden's ability played a part, as did the fading of Ben Smith's form and the availability/form of Lima Sopoaga and then Richie Mo'unga. There was lots going on. But in the end, serious AB fans know the selectors and coaches ended up taking a couple of wrong turns.

[Wild Beef]

Mounga timed his run terribly. He wasn’t in the frame in 2017, but seriously put his hand up in 2018. However, no coach wants to fuck with their established ten one year out from the RWC. If it was earlier in the cycle I reckon mounga walked into the ten jersey.

[FujiKiwi]

Jesus, it was hardly Mo'unga's fault. He was showing signs earlier than that that he was pretty good.

A complication was that Sopoaga was seen as being crucial to the mix, and acquitted himself well in his debut in Africa. We didn't know that he was going to head off to easy rugby.

[Carter's Choice]

Sure, BB has done great things in Super Rugby when the defence can sometimes give you all the time in the world.

Attritional test rugby is a very, very different beast as almost his entire body of work at 10 would attest.

Even the most one eyed and loyal BB fan (such as Wild Beef) would have to concede that that he is a flat track bully. And always has been. When he has space and time he plays like a Rugby God. He could do things no-one else has ever been able to do in the history of the game. But that's not test match Rugby, and the days of BB tearing defensive systems to shreds are over. He's lost his electric speed and that's been evident all season, at both Super Rugby and test level.

[Guy Smiley]

Mounga timed his run terribly. He wasn’t in the frame in 2017, but seriously put his hand up in 2018. However, no coach wants to fuck with their established ten one year out from the RWC. If it was earlier in the cycle I reckon mounga walked into the ten jersey.

Mo’unga was ready for a run a year before Hansen finally yielded his ego and gave him a start. A year’s worth of development wasted so Hansen and Foster could sit in the bath tub playing rubber ducks with the BB and DMac dual playmaker idea.

Please don’t try and rewrite history to imply Mo’unga wasn’t ready. Many of us spent a year demanding he be given a start before it finally happened.