So, coronavirus...

[fishfoodie]

MIght just be me and I am certainly no anti-vaxer nutbar but given how quickly this vaccine has been developed i dont mind not being in the first 15m people in line to get this, especially reading Saint's posts about this being very cutting edge in terms of vaccine development as well.

Great news on the whole though with fingers crossed a holiday to look forward to next summer.

You can over-read this. This is a technology that's been in development for 10+ years and is proven to work - a number of flu vaccines for recent strains have been tested and developed for instance. But this is the first time it's been used at any sort of scale, so regulators are going to be far more cautious than usual

Furry muff. I still get to see how the oldies, NHS staff and OJ’s bartenders trial it out first and see if they grow an extra head or wings or whatever

As a tactic to get people to take the vaccine; they should say it adds 4" to a mans cock, & two cups sizes to women.

[Sandstorm]

If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

[fishfoodie]

If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

If you refuse to take the vaccine, you shouldn't be allowed in a public hospital.

Why the fuck should people in vulnerable groups, who perhaps can't get the vaccine; have to risk their lives so selfish cunts can get treated in a public hospital.

In the US you used to have to present the vaccination certificates for your kids before they were allowed in the school; I remember my nephew who got the BCG in Ireland, when his parents emigrated, they had to get a letter from the Irish DoH to confirm that the reason he tested positive for TB, was because he'd been vaccinated

[Bimbowomxn]

If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Mmmmm, all medical ethics ...... gone.


Who’d have thought it from you.

[Saint]

Be interesting how you can tell the temp didn’t temporarily drop to -55 during transit either.

There's medical grade transport freezers that guarantee temperature to +/- 0.1 degrees. The first couple of stages of transit are the easy part - we can easily get this to the major hospitals that have the necessary storage capability. Getting it beyond there will be extremely difficult. In theory, it's supposed to be stable for up to 24 hours at higher temps, so subdistribution to pharmacies MIGGT be possible - the trouble being how to handle it, as even while it's warming up it would still be far too cold to handle

I was going to say it must survive at warmer temps for at least a time. If you know how many doses you have lined up for the day, you can take them out in the morning, and there's no issue?

I have no idea on the process, but if you take it out first thing, it's going to be seriously cold still by 5pm

District nurses don't typically handle anything much colder than freezing point for instance - pharmacies will have some drugs they store down to -20. But even taking something that's -80 out of a freezer will take specialist handling for hours before you can easily dea with it outside of controlled environments

[Un Pilier]

I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

[Saint]

I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

If you want this done rapidly at scale then you need GPs/pharmacies/community nursing. So this vaccine isn't the "scale" answer. This is the vaccine that protects frontline and at risk while until we get one that has far fewer logistical issues.

As pretty much all the vaccines in development are targeting the same protein, and so far all are producing similar immune responses, it's very likely that we will be seeing a number of easier to handle vaccines for through soon. Pfizer will likely lead the way for initial vaccinations now, but the bulk of the 1st world population will be getting something else. And the 2nd/3rd world probably won't get this at all

[Sandstorm]

If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Mmmmm, all medical ethics ...... gone.


Who’d have thought it from you.

Well either that or isolate and toolbags like you will refuse to do that too.

[Un Pilier]

I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

If you want this done rapidly at scale then you need GPs/pharmacies/community nursing. So this vaccine isn't the "scale" answer. This is the vaccine that protects frontline and at risk while until we get one that has far fewer logistical issues.

As pretty much all the vaccines in development are targeting the same protein, and so far all are producing similar immune responses, it's very likely that we will be seeing a number of easier to handle vaccines for through soon. Pfizer will likely lead the way for initial vaccinations now, but the bulk of the 1st world population will be getting something else. And the 2nd/3rd world probably won't get this at all

Yes, I expect that’s right. I don’t see this as a vaccine for the masses, welcome as it is.

[Saint]

If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Mmmmm, all medical ethics ...... gone.


Who’d have thought it from you.

Well either that or isolate and toolbags like you will refuse to do that too.

The UK is pretty rare in the western world for not having ANY mandatory vaccinations.

Even in the land of liberty a lot of States have a legal requirement to vaccinate schools age children

[fishfoodie]

I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

If you want this done rapidly at scale then you need GPs/pharmacies/community nursing. So this vaccine isn't the "scale" answer. This is the vaccine that protects frontline and at risk while until we get one that has far fewer logistical issues.

As pretty much all the vaccines in development are targeting the same protein, and so far all are producing similar immune responses, it's very likely that we will be seeing a number of easier to handle vaccines for through soon. Pfizer will likely lead the way for initial vaccinations now, but the bulk of the 1st world population will be getting something else. And the 2nd/3rd world probably won't get this at all

It's hardly beyond the wit of man.

There are AI guys traveling over a large part of the world; with frozen Bull/Ram spunk in Liquid Nitrogen; & going around farms fertilizing Cows/Ewes.

In the same way that Dyson et al put their design teams to producing Ventilator designs (which thank deity we didn't need), they can surely put together designs for refrigerated storage for, say 500 doses, that is portable, & can be powered by a simple petrol genny

[C69]

I can’t see this being done through the network of GPs/ pharmacies. Hospitals, possibly, but my guess is mobile units.

If you want this done rapidly at scale then you need GPs/pharmacies/community nursing. So this vaccine isn't the "scale" answer. This is the vaccine that protects frontline and at risk while until we get one that has far fewer logistical issues.

As pretty much all the vaccines in development are targeting the same protein, and so far all are producing similar immune responses, it's very likely that we will be seeing a number of easier to handle vaccines for through soon. Pfizer will likely lead the way for initial vaccinations now, but the bulk of the 1st world population will be getting something else. And the 2nd/3rd world probably won't get this at all

It's hardly beyond the wit of man.

There are AI guys traveling over a large part of the world; with frozen Bull/Ram spunk in Liquid Nitrogen; & going around farms fertilizing Cows/Ewes.

In the same way that Dyson et al put their design teams to producing Ventilator designs (which thank deity we didn't need), they can surely put together designs for refrigerated storage for, say 500 doses, that is portable, & can be powered by a simple petrol genny

The Dyson ventilator was shite and thank feck we did not need it.
The CoVent was a laughing stock tbh looked archaic and probably wasn't anywhere near as good as the vents by Resmed, Philips or Breas.
If anyone has seen the retrofitted UCL/Mercedes cpap 'whisperflow' then yes it was that bad.

[Rinkals]

If you refuse to take the vaccine in the UK and you get bad Covid, they should send you the actual bill for spending 2 weeks in hospital.

Mmmmm, all medical ethics ...... gone.


Who’d have thought it from you.

Jesus, bimbo, are you Eastern European or something?

Most British people understand the concept of humour.

[Bimbowomxn]

The Dyson ventilator was shite and thank feck we did not need it.
The CoVent was a laughing stock tbh looked archaic and probably wasn't anywhere near as good as the vents by Resmed, Philips or Breas.
If anyone has seen the retrofitted UCL/Mercedes cpap 'whisperflow' then yes it was that bad.

“We demand emergency breathing equipment “


“No no not them , we demand things that aren’t available “

[Insane_Homer]

9/11/20

Deaths: 194 - last 7 days 2,385 +530 (+28.6%)
Cases: 21,350 - last 7 days 159,502, +327 (+0.2%)

Apologies for the delay, can't post from home network to here

[Northern Lights]

You can over-read this. This is a technology that's been in development for 10+ years and is proven to work - a number of flu vaccines for recent strains have been tested and developed for instance. But this is the first time it's been used at any sort of scale, so regulators are going to be far more cautious than usual

Furry muff. I still get to see how the oldies, NHS staff and OJ’s bartenders trial it out first and see if they grow an extra head or wings or whatever

As a tactic to get people to take the vaccine; they should say it adds 4" to a mans cock, & two cups sizes to women.

This is Compound V and we are going to be unleashing super powered grannies on to the planet and then you will all be sorry and wish you had just let Covid take its natural course.

[Openside]

Care home residents and staff first I would think.

Then hospital staff and teachers.

NHS

Then bartenders in my favourite pubs.

That might leave you with only nurses in the pub for company, so you might need to rethink your plan

You think that’s a bad thing?? you are clearly a wrong’un

[Insane_Homer]

June 2020

Matt Hancock declared "black lives matter" as he spoke about a devastating report which has laid bare the way that BAME communities are much worse affected by coronavirus.

But despite his acknowledgement of the dreadful death toll from covid-19 among these communities, the Health Secretary did not announce any concrete proposals to help protect people affected.

Under pressure to explain why there were no recommendations being announced today, Mr Hancock insisted the government had "already taken action because it’s been clear right from the start."

He explained that the first four deaths of doctors were all people from BAME backgrounds.

He said: “It really struck me there was clearly a disparity and we’ve seen that disparity.”

He added: “Right across the world people are angry about racial injustice - and I get that. Black lives matter”.

Nov 2020

[Paddington Bear]

Given that a significant part of the increased risk for BAME communities comes from:
1) being more likely to work in frontline healthcare
2) living in multi-generational households

The policy seems to cover their risk factors reasonably well. AFAIK it isn't genetics causing this - a 20 something from a BAME background living with other 20 somethings isn't high risk

[Bimbowomxn]

So the only sector in which hospital admissions are rising is from care homes. How much will these be affected by the lockdowns?

It appears we’re chasing the wrong target once again and by not prioritising shielding the vulnerable we are creating the problem not solving it.

[Bimbowomxn]

June 2020

Matt Hancock declared "black lives matter" as he spoke about a devastating report which has laid bare the way that BAME communities are much worse affected by coronavirus.

But despite his acknowledgement of the dreadful death toll from covid-19 among these communities, the Health Secretary did not announce any concrete proposals to help protect people affected.

Under pressure to explain why there were no recommendations being announced today, Mr Hancock insisted the government had "already taken action because it’s been clear right from the start."

He explained that the first four deaths of doctors were all people from BAME backgrounds.

He said: “It really struck me there was clearly a disparity and we’ve seen that disparity.”

He added: “Right across the world people are angry about racial injustice - and I get that. Black lives matter”.

Nov 2020

And why the fuck would you prioritise teachers.

[Longshanks]

154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.
That's brilliant!
If the contract tracing can step up to the plate, that could really see the R drop in the city and hopefully soon nationwide
But still early days......

[Sandstorm]

154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.

How many hosted house parties in October?

[Longshanks]

154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.

How many hosted house parties in October?

Fine them all £10k to be on the safe side.

[Biffer]

154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.
That's brilliant!
If the contract tracing can step up to the plate, that could really see the R drop in the city and hopefully soon nationwide
But still early days......

No doubt someone will be along shortly with a completely unscientific statistical analysis about false positives and false negatives.

[Bimbowomxn]

154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.
That's brilliant!
If the contract tracing can step up to the plate, that could really see the R drop in the city and hopefully soon nationwide
But still early days......

The R in Liverpool has been below 1 for weeks.

[Uncle fester]

Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

[Saint]

Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

If you're just talking about reducing deaths, then giving it to high risk/elderly first will reduce the death rate. It won't seriously impact r0 as the high risk and elderly aren't driving that number. - and there are still the concerns about Long COVID

To reach "herd immunity", you need to get to somewhere around 66%-70% immunised, ideally more. Of course by the time we get to the bulk of the population we'll be into next spring, so should be on the downslope again, and we're really talking about preventing a third wave

[Raggs]

Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

Think the estimates were 60% coverage. So 90% effectiveness would mean you want around 67% vaccinated. Probably best to aim for 75%. Given the long term effects however, you probably want to be vaccinating everyone since unless it's wiped out ( which is unlikely if it can still survive in animal populations) it's probably the healthier option.

So for life to return to normal 70% uptake i reckon. But make available to 100% for health benefits.

[Sandstorm]

I'm not anti-vax or fat, old or high risk. But I'm also not keen on having one of 6 brand new vaccines rushed through in 1/10 of the normal time of other previous vaccines.

But I also want to take a holiday to USA next year and don't fancy ending up in a Chicago hospital on 90% oxygen.....what do I do when it (eventually) comes round to having my injection?

[Northern Lights]

I'm not anti-vax or fat, old or high risk. But I'm also not keen on having one of 6 brand new vaccines rushed through in 1/10 of the normal time of other previous vaccines.

But I also want to take a holiday to USA next year and don't fancy ending up in a Chicago hospital on 90% oxygen.....what do I do when it (eventually) comes round to having my injection?

Think of the super powers you will get, that's what I'm holding out for, dont go for the first gen stuff it is bound to get better just like the iphone.

[Longshanks]

154 infected with Covid found by the mass testing in Liverpool so far. 24k tests.
That's brilliant!
If the contract tracing can step up to the plate, that could really see the R drop in the city and hopefully soon nationwide
But still early days......

The R in Liverpool has been below 1 for weeks.

Good. Hopefully this drive it even lower and reduce cases.

[Openside]

Care home residents and staff first I would think.

Then hospital staff and teachers.

NHS

Then bartenders in my favourite pubs.

That might leave you with only nurses in the pub for company, so you might need to rethink your plan

You say that like it would be a bad thing??

Erm how many colours can you identify??

[Lemoentjie]

This isn't an anti-vax post- verifiably safe vaccines are great for humanity. But weren't there complications with the Swine Flue vaccine in 2010 or so? A very high incidence in some health issues from the people who took it. That was another rushed vaccine.

Still, as long as those issues are lower than Covid death rate, it should be rolled out anyway.

[Bimbowomxn]

Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

If you're just talking about reducing deaths, then giving it to high risk/elderly first will reduce the death rate. It won't seriously impact r0 as the high risk and elderly aren't driving that number. - and there are still the concerns about Long COVID

To reach "herd immunity", you need to get to somewhere around 66%-70% immunised, ideally more. Of course by the time we get to the bulk of the population we'll be into next spring, so should be on the downslope again, and we're really talking about preventing a third wave

A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

[Bimbowomxn]

Honest question with the vaccine.
Does it need to be given to everybody?
If it's given to high risk groups at first, that alone should slow down the spread of the virus and reduce the R0 rate.
Could the virus already be under control before they get around to vaccinating everybody else?

Think the estimates were 60% coverage. So 90% effectiveness would mean you want around 67% vaccinated. Probably best to aim for 75%. Given the long term effects however, you probably want to be vaccinating everyone since unless it's wiped out ( which is unlikely if it can still survive in animal populations) it's probably the healthier option.

So for life to return to normal 70% uptake i reckon. But make available to 100% for health benefits.

Or don’t bother with the population that isn’t at any risk from the virus.

[Sandstorm]

A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

Except this one is vascular

[Longshanks]

A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

Except this one is vascular

[Biffer]

A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

Except this one is vascular

Spanish Flu - four waves
Russian Flu (1890s) - five waves
Asian Flu - two waves then shifted into Hong Kong flu with a further two waves.

Bimbo making shit up again.

[Raggs]

A third wave would be very unusual for a Respiratory virus ....

Except this one is vascular

Spanish Flu - four waves
Russian Flu (1890s) - five waves
Asian Flu - two waves then shifted into Hong Kong flu with a further two waves.

Bimbo making shit up again.

Swine flu is now just part of the regular yearly mix of flus, so that must have had a few waves too. As has basically every other cold/flu virus out there in theory...