Tri Nations: All Blacks vs Pumas: MATCH THREAD: Sat 14th Nov

[Jb1981]

Who are now the favourites to win the tournament?

South Africa, surely?

It certainly raises questions of their decision not to come. Having seen that from Argentina, what is it in the South African psyche that gave them so much self doubt.

[Torquemada 1420]

Repetition, I know BUT whenever the ABs fail, it's characterised by panic and lack of direction when behind and under pressure. And that's probably the price for being so good 99% of the time: you can't really coach how to cope with that kind of position in training.

[Carter's Choice]

Repetition, I know BUT whenever the ABs fail, it's characterised by panic and lack of direction when behind and under pressure. And that's probably the price for being so good 99% of the time: you can't really coach how to cope with that kind of position in training.

Dumb post, they lacked direction and composure before they were behind. That's what happens when you have the worst coach in the history of New Zealand Rugby.

[Biffer]

Only saw the last twenty minutes or so but Argentina looked well on top. Defence absolutely outstanding, in particular hugely physical tackling in the midfield completely disrupting the ABs attacking structure. They cut off that kiwi game plan and took their structure away. I know the knee jerk reaction from kiwi fans will be that they played badly, but Argentina made them play badly. They're not used to being knocked off their patterns so comprehensively and had no plan B other than looking to individual bits of skill.

Absolutely brilliant from the RGs, shown the rest of us how to beat them.

[Torquemada 1420]

Repetition, I know BUT whenever the ABs fail, it's characterised by panic and lack of direction when behind and under pressure. And that's probably the price for being so good 99% of the time: you can't really coach how to cope with that kind of position in training.

Dumb post, they lacked direction and composure before they were behind. That's what happens when you have the worst coach in the history of New Zealand Rugby.

Coach isn't responsible for players' mindsets on the field once game starts. Where was the captaincy and leadership from senior players like Whitelock?

[stemoc]

Foster, 5 games, 2 wins, 2 losses , 1 draw.. that is a shit resume.

[Biffer]

Foster, 5 games, 2 wins, 2 losses , 1 draw.. that is a shit resume.

Is that also Sam Kane's record as captain?

[Torquemada 1420]

Only saw the last twenty minutes or so but Argentina looked well on top. Defence absolutely outstanding, in particular hugely physical tackling in the midfield completely disrupting the ABs attacking structure. They cut off that kiwi game plan and took their structure away. I know the knee jerk reaction from kiwi fans will be that they played badly, but Argentina made them play badly. They're not used to being knocked off their patterns so comprehensively and had no plan B other than looking to individual bits of skill.

Absolutely brilliant from the RGs, shown the rest of us how to beat them.

Who is this ChocolateBars kid in the centre? O/S defensive showing.

[Gumboot]

Repetition, I know BUT whenever the ABs fail, it's characterised by panic and lack of direction when behind and under pressure. And that's probably the price for being so good 99% of the time: you can't really coach how to cope with that kind of position in training.

Dumb post, they lacked direction and composure before they were behind. That's what happens when you have the worst coach in the history of New Zealand Rugby.

This reminds me most of Lemonface Mains' tumultuous and largely unsuccessful reign in the mid-90s, ie the Suzies. He's now regarded as a sage of sorts...

[Thor Sedan]

Repetition, I know BUT whenever the ABs fail, it's characterised by panic and lack of direction when behind and under pressure. And that's probably the price for being so good 99% of the time: you can't really coach how to cope with that kind of position in training.

Well that does fly in the face of the numerous last minute wins pulled off by the AB's.

This wasn't panic brought on by being behind. This was a lack of basic skills that the ABs rely on throughout the game.

[ShedHead]

Turned this on just as the ref was blowing the final whistle. Gutted I missed this game!

Throws the tournament open now surely which should make for a more interesting few weeks than if the ABs were 3/3 as you might have expected...

[stemoc]

Foster, 5 games, 2 wins, 2 losses , 1 draw.. that is a shit resume.

Is that also Sam Kane's record as captain?

wrong Sam is captain

[Not_Couch]

Last week it was ALL Beauden Barretts TJ Perenara and Ngani Laumapes fault.


So is it cool to blame Richie Moungas, Aaron Smith and Jack Goodhues this week?

Or does that not fit the narrative anymore?

[Torquemada 1420]

Repetition, I know BUT whenever the ABs fail, it's characterised by panic and lack of direction when behind and under pressure. And that's probably the price for being so good 99% of the time: you can't really coach how to cope with that kind of position in training.

Well that does fly in the face of the numerous last minute wins pulled off by the AB's.

This wasn't panic brought on by being behind. This was a lack of basic skills that the ABs rely on throughout the game.

Doesn't that reinforce the point i.e. when the belief (even arrogance) of invincibility is there, they pull off stuff like the Oirish heartbreak?

Coincidentally, Lynagh saying the same now.

[Carter's Choice]

Last week it was ALL Beauden Barretts TJ Perenara and Ngani Laumapes fault.


So is it cool to blame Richie Moungas, Aaron Smith and Jack Goodhues this week?

Or does that not fit the narrative anymore?

Nope, both week's it has been Ian Foster's fault.

[Torquemada 1420]

Last week it was ALL Beauden Barretts TJ Perenara and Ngani Laumapes fault.


So is it cool to blame Richie Moungas, Aaron Smith and Jack Goodhues this week?

Or does that not fit the narrative anymore?

Nope, both week's it has been Ian Foster's fault.

[stemoc]

NZ now ranked 3rd in the world lol

1. South Africa 94.20
2. England 88.42
3. New Zealand 88.17

[Thor Sedan]

Repetition, I know BUT whenever the ABs fail, it's characterised by panic and lack of direction when behind and under pressure. And that's probably the price for being so good 99% of the time: you can't really coach how to cope with that kind of position in training.

Well that does fly in the face of the numerous last minute wins pulled off by the AB's.

This wasn't panic brought on by being behind. This was a lack of basic skills that the ABs rely on throughout the game.

Doesn't that reinforce the point i.e. when the belief (even arrogance) of invincibility is there, they pull off stuff like the Oirish heartbreak?

Coincidentally, Lynagh saying the same now.

I don't think I'm following your point.

Are you putting the loss down to the AB's panicking or the the Pumas outplaying them?

Personally I think that the Pumas were better on the day and simply outplayed the ABs. The ABs would have believed that they could win, but the Argies also had belief they could hold them out.

Why are you trying trump the belief and skill of the Pumas with the ABs apparent arrogance and panic?

[Carter's Choice]

Repetition, I know BUT whenever the ABs fail, it's characterised by panic and lack of direction when behind and under pressure. And that's probably the price for being so good 99% of the time: you can't really coach how to cope with that kind of position in training.

Dumb post, they lacked direction and composure before they were behind. That's what happens when you have the worst coach in the history of New Zealand Rugby.

Coach isn't responsible for players' mindsets on the field once game starts. Where was the captaincy and leadership from senior players like Whitelock?

Really dumb post, Whitelock was great today. By far the best AB.

Anyway, why are the French trolls infesting this thread. Haven't you got a 6N or Covid-19 thread to troll on?

[stemoc]

Fiji game cancelled so they are not worried about this week..

[Paddington Bear]

Well it appears the second bottle last night was a mistake...

Any idea where I can find the highlights/a recording?

[Steve]

Red boots and Bleach blond frosted tips are indicative of the "heads up arses" "sunshine boy" nature of this team. Perenana gurning for selfies last week with the fans after serving up 80 minutes of slop. He should have been in the sheds looking at the floor in silence.

This Allblack team is all fur coat and no knickers. I said it after the wins also, this team gets humped in Dublin, London, Paris and Johannesburg.

The dual playmaker stuff is a farce. I once thought Beauden Barrett would break Howletts try scoring record. He's completely castrated now.

Caleb Clarke had been dining out on two big runs and being hailed as the next Lomu. Bar the last minute consolation today he hadn't scored a try. Shanked a kick into touch like an amateur too for good measure after taking an unnecessary mark.

We have a load of novelty players who are icing and cherries. But we have no cake. Franks, Retallick, McCaw,Ben Smith et al. Do the core roles well and stay off fucking Instagram.

I don't remember Ben Smith dropping the ball. Every catch an AB goes up for now is ping ponging around.

NZ always had wingers who scored tries and were dangerous from distance. We look inept out wide now.

That quick tap at the end was followed by the stupidest thing I have ever seen. A short kick off to be contested by the diminutive DMAC. Pathetic.

Give me wingers on the wing , a fullback at fullback, centres at centre, a number 8 playing number 8 and if anyone bar Sam Whitelock turns up with a haircut other than short back and sides they can fuck off .

[stemoc]

Chieka had 3 wins agaisnt the AB's .. now its 3 and a half hehe

[mrbrownstone]

Not really much to say. Lineout is looking shaky without Read and Retallick, and it's costing us. Discipline is laughable, and the scrum is inconsistent at best. The rest was also poor, but without those fundamentals it's hard to get anything going.

Hard to know where to go from here as I think most agreed this team was full strength. The obvious answer (which I support) is fire Foster, but I imagine we'll trot out a few excuses about it being a weird year and sweep this under the rug. In terms of personnel I'm not sure there's much. I'd like to see Mo'unga given the chance to drive the team without a second playmaker. Cullen Grace possibly worth a look to help the lineout. Think the problems are far deeper than personell though.

[Sandstorm]

Red boots and Bleach blond frosted tips are indicative of the "heads up arses" "sunshine boy" nature of this team. Perenana gurning for selfies last week with the fans after serving up 80 minutes of slop. He should have been in the sheds looking at the floor in silence.

This Allblack team is all fur coat and no knickers. I said it after the wins also, this team gets humped in Dublin, London, Paris and Johannesburg.

The dual playmaker stuff is a farce. I once thought Beauden Barrett would break Howletts try scoring record. He's completely castrated now.

Caleb Clarke had been dining out on two big runs and being hailed as the next Lomu. Bar the last minute consolation today he hadn't scored a try. Shanked a kick into touch like an amateur too for good measure after taking an unnecessary mark.

We have a load of novelty players who are icing and cherries. But we have no cake. Franks, Retallick, McCaw,Ben Smith et al. Do the core roles well and stay off fucking Instagram.

I don't remember Ben Smith dropping the ball. Every catch an AB goes up for now is ping ponging around.

NZ always had wingers who scored tries and were dangerous from distance. We look inept out wide now.

That quick tap at the end was followed by the stupidest thing I have ever seen. A short kick off to be contested by the diminutive DMAC. Pathetic.

Give me wingers on the wing , a fullback at fullback, centres at centre, a number 8 playing number 8 and if anyone bar Sam Whitelock turns up with a haircut other than short back and sides they can fuck off .

[OomStruisbaai]

The All Blacks have to many overhyped players in thPu,eir team. BB should be 10 and that Clarke laaitie is way to windgat.

Pumas was way to physical for them. Vok they can be glad that its Corvid year. Springbokke would put 50 past them. Rassie vs Foster, there is no comparison.

Pumas now favourates to win the trophe.

[OomStruisbaai]

This Allblack team is all fur coat and no knickers. I said it after the wins also, this team gets humped in Dublin, London, Paris and Johannesburg.

I feel sorry for their supporters.

Gone are the days when they dominate world rugby.

[Trapper]

We still haven’t got our back row right. Sam Cane is not a 7. He’s a 6. Ardie is not an 8, he’s a 7. At that is the problem, I wish we had a 7 like Boshier out there stealing pill for fun,. Sotutu makes meters for fun and for me. Akira showed in his 26 minutes last week he was not out of place. Until we get that sorted we are not going to improve.

[Trapper]

The All Blacks have to many overhyped players in thPu,eir team. BB should be 10 and that Clarke laaitie is way to windgat.

Pumas was way to physical for them. Vok they can be glad that its Corvid year. Springbokke would put 50 past them. Rassie vs Foster, there is no comparison.

Pumas now favourates to win the trophe.

It’s a real shame the Boks aren’t out here playing this comp. one thing I know is that no matter how bad we looked against the Argies today it would be a different story against the Boks. The rivalry means everything and that means a lift in focus and intensity, two things that were desperately missing today. I reckon we thought we just had to show up today and got spanked.

[Gumboot]

We still haven’t got our back row right. Sam Cane is not a 7. He’s a 6. Ardie is not an 8, he’s a 7. At that is the problem, I wish we had a 7 like Boshier out there stealing pill for fun,. Sotutu makes meters for fun and for me. Akira showed in his 26 minutes last week he was not out of place. Until we get that sorted we are not going to improve.

Our entire pack got beasted. That starts in the front row, not in the back row.

[Carter's Choice]

We still haven’t got our back row right. Sam Cane is not a 7. He’s a 6. Ardie is not an 8, he’s a 7. At that is the problem, I wish we had a 7 like Boshier out there stealing pill for fun,. Sotutu makes meters for fun and for me. Akira showed in his 26 minutes last week he was not out of place. Until we get that sorted we are not going to improve.

Our entire pack got beasted. That starts in the front row, not in the back row.

We were manshamed at the breakdown, with Matera toying with our backrow. Can't blame the front row for everything.

[Biffer]

How many other teams would have been allowed to give away seven kickable penalties in under an hour without a yellow card?

[Trapper]

We still haven’t got our back row right. Sam Cane is not a 7. He’s a 6. Ardie is not an 8, he’s a 7. At that is the problem, I wish we had a 7 like Boshier out there stealing pill for fun,. Sotutu makes meters for fun and for me. Akira showed in his 26 minutes last week he was not out of place. Until we get that sorted we are not going to improve.

Our entire pack got beasted. That starts in the front row, not in the back row.

Good to know, any suggestions, or you just leaving that here?

[Not_Couch]

We still haven’t got our back row right. Sam Cane is not a 7. He’s a 6. Ardie is not an 8, he’s a 7. At that is the problem, I wish we had a 7 like Boshier out there stealing pill for fun,. Sotutu makes meters for fun and for me. Akira showed in his 26 minutes last week he was not out of place. Until we get that sorted we are not going to improve.

Our entire pack got beasted. That starts in the front row, not in the back row.

I was keeping a keen eyes on our locks this game. Sam Whitlock was everywhere, but Patrick Tuipolotu can be seen hiding from the tight forwards standing out of line or in the backline avoiding contact at all costs. We have guys like Moody and Coles putting their bodies on there line defensively but PT acts liked a sweeper, and his ball carrying was non existent, a big body like his should always take the first hitups.

We miss Rettalick like crazy!

[Gumboot]

We still haven’t got our back row right. Sam Cane is not a 7. He’s a 6. Ardie is not an 8, he’s a 7. At that is the problem, I wish we had a 7 like Boshier out there stealing pill for fun,. Sotutu makes meters for fun and for me. Akira showed in his 26 minutes last week he was not out of place. Until we get that sorted we are not going to improve.

Our entire pack got beasted. That starts in the front row, not in the back row.

Good to know, any suggestions, or you just leaving that here?

Sorry, but are you seriously suggesting that starting Sotutu, Boshier and Akira Ioane is going to turn things around?

[Steve]

I’d have Will Jordan and Havili over DMAC and Jordie at the moment .
Caleb Clarke is meh for mine.
Jordie is grand at 15. But keep him off the wing .
Still not sold on Frizell. Akira’s 26 minutes are aging well .
Laumape deserves another chance outside Smith and RMO instead of the slop he was given last week.
Need new blood at scrum half .
Rieko Ioane is a left winger . End of story .

[Gumboot]

We still haven’t got our back row right. Sam Cane is not a 7. He’s a 6. Ardie is not an 8, he’s a 7. At that is the problem, I wish we had a 7 like Boshier out there stealing pill for fun,. Sotutu makes meters for fun and for me. Akira showed in his 26 minutes last week he was not out of place. Until we get that sorted we are not going to improve.

Our entire pack got beasted. That starts in the front row, not in the back row.

I was keeping a keen eyes on our locks this game. Sam Whitlock was everywhere, but Patrick Tuipolotu can be seen hiding from the tight forwards standing out of line or in the backline avoiding contact at all costs. We have guys like Moody and Coles putting their bodies on there line defensively but PT acts liked a sweeper, and his ball carrying was non existent, a big body like his should always take the first hitups.

We miss Rettalick like crazy!

Yep, Tuipulotu's too much of a passenger for my liking. Vaa'i is now the better option to start, imho.

[Lemoentjie]

Cheika returns to troll the ABs

[Gumboot]

Cheika returns to troll the ABs

Shame he never managed to when it mattered.

[PCPhil]

Red boots and Bleach blond frosted tips are indicative of the "heads up arses" "sunshine boy" nature of this team. Perenana gurning for selfies last week with the fans after serving up 80 minutes of slop. He should have been in the sheds looking at the floor in silence.

This Allblack team is all fur coat and no knickers. I said it after the wins also, this team gets humped in Dublin, London, Paris and Johannesburg.

The dual playmaker stuff is a farce. I once thought Beauden Barrett would break Howletts try scoring record. He's completely castrated now.

Caleb Clarke had been dining out on two big runs and being hailed as the next Lomu. Bar the last minute consolation today he hadn't scored a try. Shanked a kick into touch like an amateur too for good measure after taking an unnecessary mark.

We have a load of novelty players who are icing and cherries. But we have no cake. Franks, Retallick, McCaw,Ben Smith et al. Do the core roles well and stay off fucking Instagram.

I don't remember Ben Smith dropping the ball. Every catch an AB goes up for now is ping ponging around.

NZ always had wingers who scored tries and were dangerous from distance. We look inept out wide now.

That quick tap at the end was followed by the stupidest thing I have ever seen. A short kick off to be contested by the diminutive DMAC. Pathetic.

Give me wingers on the wing , a fullback at fullback, centres at centre, a number 8 playing number 8 and if anyone bar Sam Whitelock turns up with a haircut other than short back and sides they can fuck off .

Outstanding. Not seen this since the days of the Mogg live meltdowns.