QANTAS will only allow vaccinated people fly

[Torquemada 1420]

the tax payer had to put his hand in his pocket for them......

Therefore they have a responsibility to the taxpayer to get the business turned around as rapidly as possible. They believe that this is the correct route to do this.

What retard logic is this? The banks were bailed out in 2008 and set about screwing swathes of consumers to today in order to reflate their balance sheets.

Separate argument but they (airlines and banks) should have been allowed to go to the wall.

[Saint]

They're not setting public health policy. They're setting a policy for their customers that they hope will reassure them about the level of risk involved with purchasing their service

I look forward to your defence of KKK Air in the same manner.

Frankly that's beneath you

[Saint]

the tax payer had to put his hand in his pocket for them......

Therefore they have a responsibility to the taxpayer to get the business turned around as rapidly as possible. They believe that this is the correct route to do this.

What retard logic is this? The banks were bailed out in 2008 and set about screwing swathes of consumers to today in order to reflate their balance sheets.

Separate argument but they (airlines and banks) should have been allowed to go to the wall.

The banks have precisely nothing to do with this. The situation is completely unrelated

[Hellraiser]

Will Australia make it mandatory to have received the vaccine to be allowed enter the country? A previous issue with Kuwait airlines was that the country didn't recognise the existence of Israel, and as such staff could not accept Israeli passports. This was fine on flights to or from Kuwait itself because that was the law of Kuwait. Where they got caught was on the 5th freedom flights between LHR-JFK, where both countries recognised the State of Israel and therefore KAC were ruled to be discriminating. This is allegedly one of the reasons KAC moved the LHR stopover to Shannon. If say the UAE and UK do not bring in any rules about mandatory vaccination then pax will have a leg to stand on for Qantas 5th freedom flights between the 2, but not on flights to or from Oz if the country brings in vaccination requirements.

If the country of origin of the airline brings in legislation around vaccination, the airline employees will be obliged to follow it or potentially be in breach of contract.

You're over thinking it. Just take the tested vaccine. If you want to wait to see some stats regarding the safety - then wait until you are satisfied and then travel.

Some airlines will impose this rule - others may not. There will be exemptions available.

Amazingly this world as a whole actually doesn't give a flying toss about your feelings or your 'pro-choice' stance. Decisions are made for the majority, not the vocal minority. This is a pandemic - whether you believe it or not. The vaccines are tested to be safe - whether you believe it or not. Airlines are allowed to protect their passengers - whether you think they are doing it correctly or not.

Boycott the airline, start up a facebook page, contact your local politician, write a letter to the Prime Minister or President or whoever....your opinion means nothing.....nothing at all except to you and a couple of other people that might agree with you.

If the rule is you need to travel with vaccine proof - then that is what you will have to do. The end.

Other than that - you are just yelling at clouds dude.

I appreciate your civil response but I have a question/critique.

Contradictory to your claim......is'nt this decision being made for the minority ?

It's not dangerous to the majority of people as borne out by the data.

Ahhh, the "it's just a flu" defence.

[Hellraiser]

In the end of the day, as soon as the vaccines is available for use around the world, i expect that most countries will most likely have a requirement for a vaccination certificate to travel. So if you hate vaccines, tough luck, you most likely will have to stay at home for quite a while or only go to places that allows you to drive there.

I really do not see an issue with this at all, there are still countries that require vaccination certificates for all kinds of diseases. and I have had to do my fair share of shots over the years to visit several countries around the world. That list of countries have become much shorter over the years, so a lot of people seem to forget that such rules/;laws exist. In my opinion this complaint about getting vaccinated before you travel internationally is a modern first world "problem" People creating mountains out of ant hills come to mind.

I'm perfectly fine with that. I simply repeat my point - private companies should not be setting public health policy. That is a matter for governments as they have accountability to match the authority.

They're not setting public health policy, you buffoon. They are setting out terms of service for customers.

[Steve]

In the end of the day, as soon as the vaccines is available for use around the world, i expect that most countries will most likely have a requirement for a vaccination certificate to travel. So if you hate vaccines, tough luck, you most likely will have to stay at home for quite a while or only go to places that allows you to drive there.

I really do not see an issue with this at all, there are still countries that require vaccination certificates for all kinds of diseases. and I have had to do my fair share of shots over the years to visit several countries around the world. That list of countries have become much shorter over the years, so a lot of people seem to forget that such rules/;laws exist. In my opinion this complaint about getting vaccinated before you travel internationally is a modern first world "problem" People creating mountains out of ant hills come to mind.

I'm perfectly fine with that. I simply repeat my point - private companies should not be setting public health policy. That is a matter for governments as they have accountability to match the authority.

They're not setting public health policy, you buffoon. They are setting out terms of service for customers.

Are all terms of service legal or morally correct ?

If QANTAS wanted to finger every female passenger before they boarded would you just shrug and accept it?

Obviously my example is hyperbolic but you get my point. There has to be a line and people disagree where the line is on this issue.

We have a case in the European courts where a gay man is taking a bakery to court because they wouldn't bake him a cake with a same sex marriage message on it.

Banks ask motorcyclists to remove helmets when they come in to make a withdrawal. They don't do the same to people in religious dress such as burqas.

There are always shades of grey and nuance in life.

Its one thing for a country to introduce a policy in relation to required inoculations but ive never encountered a brand who wont let me use their product until i alter my body.

[Steve]

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-sty ... -1.4417851

Ryanair and Aer Lingus seem to be taking a different stance to their countryman Joyce.

[Enzedder]

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-sty ... -1.4417851

Ryanair and Aer Lingus seem to be taking a different stance to their countryman Joyce.

Ireland is rife with the virus though. QANTAS are mindful that Aussie is not.

[Enzedder]

In the 50s and 60s (and even part of the 70s) you needed to show your vaccination certificate when you flew internationally. It honestly didn't hurt us - and people did get their vaccinations back then. It why so many of the big diseases are gone.

So... it's back to the future.

[the cursed]

so where do people want to fly at the moment?

Europe?? nope, pretty covid shitty there atm

Americas North and South - again, pretty Covid shitty there at the moment

Africa - still pretty Covid shitty there at the moment..

just where exactly are all these non vaccinated people going to fly to?

jumpoing on a plane unvaccinated going to places rife with the plague seems to be extremely logical

[Steve]

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-sty ... -1.4417851

Ryanair and Aer Lingus seem to be taking a different stance to their countryman Joyce.

Ireland is rife with the virus though. QANTAS are mindful that Aussie is not.

As i alluded to in earlier posts, airlines do not just operate to and from their own country. They avail of 5th freedom rights which allows them to operate to and from two points outside their country.

So QANTAS's aussie specific policy might hurt their potential ops going forward should they wish to do an onwards leg from LAX to JFK for instance.

[Steve]

so where do people want to fly at the moment?

Europe?? nope, pretty covid shitty there atm

Americas North and South - again, pretty Covid shitty there at the moment

Africa - still pretty Covid shitty there at the moment..

just where exactly are all these non vaccinated people going to fly to?

jumpoing on a plane unvaccinated going to places rife with the plague seems to be extremely logical

I take weekly flights in Europe and have done throughout this.

[Steve]

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-sty ... -1.4417851

Ryanair and Aer Lingus seem to be taking a different stance to their countryman Joyce.

Ireland is rife with the virus though. QANTAS are mindful that Aussie is not.

Ryanair don't just fly from Ireland. They have decent sized bases all over Europe including aircraft in Sweden who didnt even lockdown.

[Kiwias]

In the 50s and 60s (and even part of the 70s) you needed to show your vaccination certificate when you flew internationally. It honestly didn't hurt us - and people did get their vaccinations back then. It why so many of the big diseases are gone.

So... it's back to the future.

When I first visited Japan in 1974, I needed to have proof of vaccination against several diseases (can't remember them now) in order to get a visa and then I had to show the certificate at the airport in Japan on arrival. No certificate = no entry.

[Torquemada 1420]

Therefore they have a responsibility to the taxpayer to get the business turned around as rapidly as possible. They believe that this is the correct route to do this.

What retard logic is this? The banks were bailed out in 2008 and set about screwing swathes of consumers to today in order to reflate their balance sheets.

Separate argument but they (airlines and banks) should have been allowed to go to the wall.

The banks have precisely nothing to do with this. The situation is completely unrelated

It's a perfect equivalence. You stated that the airlines had a duty to act as commercially as possible to repay tax payers' money. And that's what the banks did and continue to do. Both industries are not high on the moral, public good or environmental conscience lists.

The point is clear: if they receive public funds then they should be under public scrutiny over their business models. Presumably if their models weren't faulty, they would not have needed the funding in the 1st place, non?

[Guy Smiley]

What retard logic is this? The banks were bailed out in 2008 and set about screwing swathes of consumers to today in order to reflate their balance sheets.

Separate argument but they (airlines and banks) should have been allowed to go to the wall.

The banks have precisely nothing to do with this. The situation is completely unrelated

It's a perfect equivalence. You stated that the airlines had a duty to act as commercially as possible to repay tax payers' money. And that's what the banks did and continue to do. Both industries are not high on the moral, public good or environmental conscience lists.

The point is clear: if they receive public funds then they should be under public scrutiny over their business models. Presumably if their models weren't faulty, they would not have needed the funding in the 1st place, non?

That’s a remarkably terrible argument with more holes in it than Grandma’s favourite 1930s colander.

[Torquemada 1420]

That’s a remarkably terrible argument with more holes in it than Grandma’s favourite 1930s colander.

You should stand for election. Your capacity to sagely state "nay" whilst providing no rationale makes you a perfect candidate for office.

[Insane_Homer]

[Saint]

What retard logic is this? The banks were bailed out in 2008 and set about screwing swathes of consumers to today in order to reflate their balance sheets.

Separate argument but they (airlines and banks) should have been allowed to go to the wall.

The banks have precisely nothing to do with this. The situation is completely unrelated

It's a perfect equivalence. You stated that the airlines had a duty to act as commercially as possible to repay tax payers' money. And that's what the banks did and continue to do. Both industries are not high on the moral, public good or environmental conscience lists.

The point is clear: if they receive public funds then they should be under public scrutiny over their business models. Presumably if their models weren't faulty, they would not have needed the funding in the 1st place, non?

No

Firstly the Banks provide an absolutely critical service to the economy as whole. Without the banks there is no economy. But in that case it was also clear that they did then screw over the public

Airlines don't provide a critical service. But it's also completely unclear to me how you think that this would be screwing over the public


The closest equivalent to this I can think of for the airline industry is inflight smoking. Some airlines banned inflight smoking way before any government legislation came in to force. In some cases this was presented as a flight/safety risk, and in some cases it was presented as a passenger comfort issue. There was lots of wailing at the time about airlines taking choice away and enforcing their views on the majority. Today it's completely un-controversial - of course they banned smoking. Now I know that's not the perfect analogy to this, but it's the closest I can think of

[Saint]

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-sty ... -1.4417851

Ryanair and Aer Lingus seem to be taking a different stance to their countryman Joyce.

Ireland is rife with the virus though. QANTAS are mindful that Aussie is not.

As i alluded to in earlier posts, airlines do not just operate to and from their own country. They avail of 5th freedom rights which allows them to operate to and from two points outside their country.

So QANTAS's aussie specific policy might hurt their potential ops going forward should they wish to do an onwards leg from LAX to JFK for instance.

And I would imagine that this is something that they have thought about and decided that the benefits outweigh the risks. I suspect that they're right - I think you're more likely to see a queue of people for a Covid vaccinated flight than you are a pile of people refusing to travel

[Saint]

People are stupid. No shock there.

[Thor Sedan]

Isn't this anger all pointless anyway?

Once the vaccine comes in countries will modify their entry requirements.

What will anti-vaxxers/pro choice/pro-plague do then?

[PornDog]

They're not setting public health policy. They're setting a policy for their customers that they hope will reassure them about the level of risk involved with purchasing their service

I look forward to your defence of KKK Air in the same manner.

That's contemptible and you should be ashamed of yourself - on multiple levels!

As for taxpayers money - that "investment" is made on economic grounds. The decision is made after considering many things including protecting jobs (directly and indirectly), Tourism, Trade and so much more. It was not made so that a very small group of citizenry could demand that perfectly sensible health protection rules shouldn't apply to them. I can say with full confidence that that didn't enter anyone's mind at any point during the decision making process!!!

Should they be under public scrutiny after receiving a bailout - yes. Does public scrutiny mean that Billy-Joe Bogan now has a say in how the business is run? Fuck no, I can't believe I actually have to state that! It means sensible government oversight, by hopefully sensible elected officials.

And has been stated above - proof of vaccine has been and continues in some parts of the world to be a prerequisite for flying to/entering certain countries. Its nothing new. The world didn't end then and it wont end now (from this at least).

But beyond that, I can't send my kid to the creche if they have a fever. Is the creche setting public health rules? Or are they just employing sensible health precautions that protects both their customers and their bottom line!

This is such a stupid debate!

[Steve]

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/a-b ... 1606257808


The debate isn't as simple as people are making it out to be.

[Steve]

Cabin air - our aircraft air conditioning systems are fitted with hospital-grade HEPA filters, which remove 99.9% of all particles including viruses. The air inside the cabin is refreshed every few minutes, ensuring the highest possible air quality.

From their own website.

[PornDog]

Hey you want to argue the economic merits of the move and we might have oursleves a worthwhile debate.

Its important to note that the point of that article is that the move is premature and maybe extensive testing might be the better route. They may well be right. Right now we just don't know. Its also important to note that QANTAS haven't actually deployed a defined policy either - they're just talking about the possibility publicly for the first time. This could very well just be a move to get the idea out there in the public so that all the frothing can be gotten out of the way now rather than when any policy does get deployed.

But that's not what is being argued on this thread, its more of a "but I don't want to" whinge!

[Thor Sedan]

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/a-b ... 1606257808


The debate isn't as simple as people are making it out to be.

It really is.

The Australian government says it will not be compulsory to be vaccinated but Qantas believes it will be an inevitable requirement for anyone leaving and entering the country.

Which I thoroughly agree with.

So if/when this comes into play - how will the 'pro-choice' folk deal with it?

[Steve]

Hey you want to argue the economic merits of the move and we might have oursleves a worthwhile debate.

Its important to note that the point of that article is that the move is premature and maybe extensive testing might be the better route. They may well be right. Right now we just don't know. Its also important to note that QANTAS haven't actually deployed a defined policy either - they're just talking about the possibility publicly for the first time. This could very well just be a move to get the idea out there in the public so that all the frothing can be gotten out of the way now rather than when any policy does get deployed.

But that's not what is being argued on this thread, its more of a "but I don't want to" whinge!

more of a " we shouldn't have to" whinge.

[Saint]

Cabin air - our aircraft air conditioning systems are fitted with hospital-grade HEPA filters, which remove 99.9% of all particles including viruses. The air inside the cabin is refreshed every few minutes, ensuring the highest possible air quality.

From their own website.

Yes - as I've said repeatedly, the point of the policy is about trying to instil confidence in passengers. There is a lot of fear and uncertainty about EVERYTHING with lots of ill-informed people saying that that x/y/z isn't safe, regardless of what the evidence actually says. It's virtually impossible to combat this in the age of the internet - so Qantas are taking the view that it might be worthwhile to instil confidence another way

It's worth noting as well that the IATA have a very different goal at the moment - they want to get global flying up and running RIGHT NOW, by removing quarantine periods and reopening borders. Their argument since April has been that rapid testing both pre and post-flight should negate the need for post-travel quarantine periods. Even if that type of process came in for the rest of the world, I think it doubtful that Australia will re-open their border, so that wouldn't help Qantas out at all.

[mat the expat]

Don't you guys remember the last time "Steve" visited?

Started a shitfight exact like this and then flounced

[Steve]

when you juxtapose this thread and its reactions with the reactions to the 737 MAX aircraft being cleared to fly again (by experts) its hard no to smirk at the contradiction in prevailing mood.

[Openside]

Sod personal choice here. We've all had to make sacrifices to survive this thing. Anti-vaxers can all go fuck themselves.

Just my take.

You mean the 99.5% who were going to survive anyway??

[Steve]

in one thread " ill trust the experts thanks they know more than anti vax scum"
in the other thread " im not getting on that plane, I don't care who says its safe"

[Sandstorm]

I don’t like shopping with anti-vaxers, no way I’m getting onto a plane with them to Sydney either!

Stupid idiots will probably go to the loo instead of the emergency exit when the MAX crashes in the harbour.

[Saint]

in one thread " ill trust the experts thanks they know more than anti vax scum"
in the other thread " im not getting on that plane, I don't care who says its safe"

Personally I've said nothing of the sort. But I would point out that neither thread is actually about trusting the experts - it;s about marketing perception of the different problems and how they need to be overcome. Qantas believe that people believe that flying is hazardous from a Covid perspective - their response is that, despite all the assurances provided already such as cycling of air etc, they need to do more to persuade people that it's safe to fly. The 737 thread demonstrates that for some people despite the assurances from a regulator and the manufacture that the plane is now safe, bearing in mind that they said exactly the same thing before, there's a perception challenge that needs to be overcome.

You then have another challenge that some people don't believe any vaccine to be safe - despite the huge amount of evidence to the contrary. So, again a market perception challenge that needs to be overcome.

[Sandstorm]

Anti-vaxers can fly on the MAX from Gatwick, the rest of us will use the A321 from Heathrow. See 4/5 of you at the beach in Spain tomorrow.

[JM2K6]

I for one am very surprised that the guy who was posting stuff from fucking conspiracy theory sites in an argument about COVID should be making arguments like this and pissing people off

[Slick]

People are stupid. No shock there.

Isn't this someone trying to be funny and failing very badly?

[Yeeb]

What’s this about fingering female passengers ?!

[Grandpa]

What’s this about fingering female passengers ?!

Frowned upon by many... but as yet, no announcement by Qantas...