The Brexit Thread

[Yeeb]

Depends of course what ‘benefits’ are being talked about by Ursula: any subsidies or grants or infrastructure building, of course the uk should not benefit from these. (I found it particularly amusing that Cornwall voted to leave, realised they wouldn’t get all their EU subsidies any more , and then say the uk govt must replace all this funding !)
Freedom of movement - ditto for most people too, at least for working and living.
But if she means benefits like quotas and tariffs and the whole ability to trade thing, then that’s probably too far to make a meaningful agreement so WTO and hard border in Ireland it is then. There is an element of indirect free rider benefits , similar to say how all of the Eu benefited from the military protection and gdp spend that US and (much lower) uk put in for decades.

Wasn't that part of the leave deal, that EU funding would be replaced by our own UK funding from all the cash we would save?

I have no idea, but only the really stupid people believed that bus and 350m saved a week thing.
Maybe at the top level funding would be replaced, but exactly replacing like with like (such as Eu regional development grants) is an extremely stupid assumption to make.

My beef wasn’t really at the voters there, but there was someone actually quite senior or an MP who just expected a like for like replacement - utterly bonkers.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Depends of course what ‘benefits’ are being talked about by Ursula: any subsidies or grants or infrastructure building, of course the uk should not benefit from these. (I found it particularly amusing that Cornwall voted to leave, realised they wouldn’t get all their EU subsidies any more , and then say the uk govt must replace all this funding !)
Freedom of movement - ditto for most people too, at least for working and living.
But if she means benefits like quotas and tariffs and the whole ability to trade thing, then that’s probably too far to make a meaningful agreement so WTO and hard border in Ireland it is then. There is an element of indirect free rider benefits , similar to say how all of the Eu benefited from the military protection and gdp spend that US and (much lower) uk put in for decades.

Wasn't that part of the leave deal, that EU funding would be replaced by our own UK funding from all the cash we would save?

That and spending it on the NHS instead, which we've sort of done if you consider people grifting the Covid crisis with the claim it'll help the NHS actually means we've helped the NHS.

I don't know we've quite confirmed we'll match all the spends, but that's hard when you do a spending review which pretends Brexit isn't happening

[Longshanks]

Can anyone explain in layman's terms the sausage and minced meat issue?
From what I understand EU will ban UK products from NI, so therefore UK have retaliated in kind.
But I'm not exactly sure of all the issues.....

[Longshanks]

In answer to my own question
Does this mean NI can only eat what it produces?

[Longshanks]

Found an article on it

Under EU rules, there are restrictions on certain meat products from outside.
Therefore as NI will be following EU rules, UK products face these restrictions.
The UK will have exactly the same rules come Jan 1st, therefore products made outside the UK will face same restrictions.
What an utterly ridiculous situation!

[fishfoodie]

Found an article on it

Under EU rules, there are restrictions on certain meat products from outside.
Therefore as NI will be following EU rules, UK products face these restrictions.
The UK will have exactly the same rules come Jan 1st, therefore products made outside the UK will face same restrictions.
What an utterly ridiculous situation!

I think it''s more general that that.

The EU says that all meat coming from 3rd countries must be frozen on arrival. You don't freeze mince & sausages, you just chill them. It's a reflection of the EU not importing meat from 3rd countries so close I suppose.

Full details are here:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1123/11800 ... it-latest/

[Longshanks]

The WA was sold to NI (and the rest of the island) as the best of both worlds
What a load of crap.

[Sandstorm]

The WA was sold to NI (and the rest of the island) as the best of both worlds
What a load of crap.

Don't beat yourself up, mate. Lots of other people were fooled by Brexit.

[fishfoodie]

The WA was sold to NI (and the rest of the island) as the best of both worlds
What a load of crap.

It kinda feels like this issue legitimately crept up on the two sides, & it was only when they got down into the weeds that they found the problems. Both sides always agreed that the island of Ireland would be one zone; but there have been problems with ensuring the integrity of that zone,, because the UK refused to allow the EU to setup offices, & UK dragged its feet on setting up inspection facilities & then the whole IMB showed the EU that the UK had no intention of doing what it agreed to.

It comes back to the EU having to be assured that NI won't become a back door into the EU.

[Sandstorm]

It comes back to the EU having to be assured that NI won't become a back door into the EU.

They'd be foolish to believe the Tories will stick to this afterwards.

[Longshanks]

It comes back to the EU having to be assured that NI won't become a back door into the EU.

They'd be foolish to believe the Tories will stick to this afterwards.

What exactly are the British planning to smuggle into Ireland (that is not already smuggled)?

[fishfoodie]

It comes back to the EU having to be assured that NI won't become a back door into the EU.

They'd be foolish to believe the Tories will stick to this afterwards.

That's why Governance appeared as a issue to be resolved before any deal can be signed. They don't trust them any further than they can throw them.

[Longshanks]

the UK refused to allow the EU to setup offices, & UK dragged its feet on setting up inspection facilities & then the whole IMB showed the EU that the UK had no intention of doing what it agreed to.

So the UK agreed to this? When? I'm not looking for a fight, but I've never seen this agreement.

[Longshanks]

FF
I miss read what you'd wrote.
You're referring to the IMB
My bad

[Bimbowomxn]

It comes back to the EU having to be assured that NI won't become a back door into the EU.

They'd be foolish to believe the Tories will stick to this afterwards.

What exactly are the British planning to smuggle into Ireland (that is not already smuggled)?

The idea that anything in the food sector is of value enough to smuggle to Dublin then onward ship to the rest of the EU by boat is for the birds, it’s a question that won’t be answered because they become very silly very quickly.

[Sandstorm]

They'd be foolish to believe the Tories will stick to this afterwards.

What exactly are the British planning to smuggle into Ireland (that is not already smuggled)?

The idea that anything in the food sector is of value enough to smuggle to Dublin then onward ship to the rest of the EU by boat is for the birds, it’s a question that won’t be answered because they become very silly very quickly.

It just takes one beef farmer - let's call him Binnie - to start smuggling sirloin and the whole house of cards comes crashing down!

[Bimbowomxn]

Remember both sides governments can do anything they like, they managed to shut the country down this year for 3 months and hardly a word of objection .... but suddenly the heavily regulated meat industry can’t manage any subtlety at all. We all know it’s a game,

[Longshanks]

They'd be foolish to believe the Tories will stick to this afterwards.

What exactly are the British planning to smuggle into Ireland (that is not already smuggled)?

The idea that anything in the food sector is of value enough to smuggle to Dublin then onward ship to the rest of the EU by boat is for the birds, it’s a question that won’t be answered because they become very silly very quickly.

I know I'm up for a beating but I agree with Bimbo
It's madness
I can't think of anything.

[Sandstorm]

What exactly are the British planning to smuggle into Ireland (that is not already smuggled)?

The idea that anything in the food sector is of value enough to smuggle to Dublin then onward ship to the rest of the EU by boat is for the birds, it’s a question that won’t be answered because they become very silly very quickly.

I know I'm up for a beating but I agree with Bimbo
It's madness
I can't think of anything.

These are Nordies we're talking about: if they can do something illegal to save just a few pence, they'll do it!

[tabascoboy]

Our cheese is so sought after worldwide I expect a major Wensleydale running racket imminently.

[Longshanks]

Maybe it's Nissans.
We're going to sneak then over the border to avoid tariffs.

[Sandstorm]

Maybe it's Nissans.
We're going to sneak then over the border to avoid tariffs.

I did think of that myself

[fishfoodie]

What exactly are the British planning to smuggle into Ireland (that is not already smuggled)?

The idea that anything in the food sector is of value enough to smuggle to Dublin then onward ship to the rest of the EU by boat is for the birds, it’s a question that won’t be answered because they become very silly very quickly.

I know I'm up for a beating but I agree with Bimbo
It's madness
I can't think of anything.

I might agree with you .... if it hadn't happened in the past .. repeatedly!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Irish_pork_crisis

One fucking feed supplier !

The specific problem is with stuff like mince, & sausages, you can end up mixing animals, & if one farm has a problem, you end up having the throw the entire weeks production into the bin; & that's when you actually have some traceability, if you then think about processed foods, you lose that traceability, & bill & reputational damage becomes immense.

How much did Foot & Mouth cost the UK Tax payer ?

How much did bird flu ?

[Bimbowomxn]

The idea that anything in the food sector is of value enough to smuggle to Dublin then onward ship to the rest of the EU by boat is for the birds, it’s a question that won’t be answered because they become very silly very quickly.

I know I'm up for a beating but I agree with Bimbo
It's madness
I can't think of anything.

I might agree with you .... if it hadn't happened in the past .. repeatedly!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Irish_pork_crisis

One fucking feed supplier !

The specific problem is with stuff like mince, & sausages, you can end up mixing animals, & if one farm has a problem, you end up having the throw the entire weeks production into the bin; & that's when you actually have some traceability, if you then think about processed foods, you lose that traceability, & bill & reputational damage becomes immense.

How much did Foot & Mouth cost the UK Tax payer ?

How much did bird flu ?

What ? This has nothing to do with smuggling. The value of smuggling was being discussed.

[Longshanks]

That's a fair issue FF
Not sure how they are going to resolve this one.
Supermarkets in NI are going to run out of some food products and similar products made in the whole of Ireland will not be allowed to enter GB.
Brexit is a load of crap.
However the GFA should have set out clear procedures in the case where one party left the EU. It might have still been hard to work out, but at least we were all friends then.

[fishfoodie]

That's a fair issue FF
Not sure how they are going to resolve this one.
Supermarkets in NI are going to run out of some food products and similar products made in the whole of Ireland will not be allowed to enter GB.
Brexit is a load of crap.
However the GFA should have set out clear procedures in the case where one party left the EU. It might have still been hard to work out, but at least we were all friends then.

It did

It gave the people of NI the right to self-determination; & in the case of Brexit, NI voted to remain.

1. The participants endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish Governments that, in a new British-Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo-Irish Agreement, they will:

(i) recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;

(ii) recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland;

(iii) acknowledge that while a substantial section of the people in Northern Ireland share the legitimate wish of a majority of the people of the island of Ireland for a united Ireland, the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people;

[Yeeb]

It will be a sad day if the Irish start blowing themselves & small children up again, all because of different standards of mince & sausages (which I presume in their case will be Chipolatas)

[Line6 HXFX]

It is crazy, I have absolutely fuck all to live for, this week for example I have mild toothache and even this is serious grounds for an existential crisis, yet even I, a suicidal nihilistic loon, who basically hates the UK voted against Brexit, thinking nah that is just too dangerous. I wouldn't wish that shite on us.

The narrative of 70 million Turks coming here was a clincher and excited many a benign racist though. That Cummings lie was the business, not the 350 million quid etc painted on the side of a bus.

So as everything labelled project fear is here and setting up residence in the spare bedroom, and as our absolute worst fears are going to be realised now, think there will be many more nightmares we never even dreamed of.

Cruelty on a scale not seen since we used to make people walk the treadmill.

Well done you public school cunts, and you posh pricks expensively educated abroad, you really will get to lord it over us all.
Money well spent huh?

Look, I blame hugh grant for all of this tbh. Before him the public schooled over priviledged knobs used to drop this recieved pronouncstion posho, priviledged cosplay act. Hide the fact they went to Eton, because they were ashamed of it.

Now, within a few short years we gladly elect Bollingdion club idiots, likeCameron Boris, and are reliving the absolute worst aspects of the 19th century.

[Yeeb]

Tbf Refry, they paid for your iPads, guitars and playstations

[Longshanks]

EU fishing ministers called to a meeting with Barnier tomorrow.
That would suggest the UK have offered a compromise on fishing, but not business as before for EU fleets. I suspect this is the moment, either accept offer from UK or no deal.
Oh to be a fly on the wall

[Hal Jordan]

How exactly did fish become so important, ffs?

[westport]

How exactly did fish become so important, ffs?

Because the EU want have the fish and eat it. they don't want the annual quotas negotiations that they have with Norway as that would would spell endless uncertainty for the EU. In theory, EU access to Norwegian waters would lapse if the annual talks collapsed and they don't want the same to happen with the UK.

[fishfoodie]

EU fishing ministers called to a meeting with Barnier tomorrow.
That would suggest the UK have offered a compromise on fishing, but not business as before for EU fleets. I suspect this is the moment, either accept offer from UK or no deal.
Oh to be a fly on the wall

If that's the case; it suggests that the UK has agreed to the Level Playing Field, & Governance issues; which I find really hard to believe.

Still, there's another day to go ........

Is the bumblecunt still in isolation ?

[Hal Jordan]

How exactly did fish become so important, ffs?

Because the EU want have the fish and eat it. they don't want the annual quotas negotiations that they have with Norway as that would would spell endless uncertainty for the EU. In theory, EU access to Norwegian waters would lapse if the annual talks collapsed and they don't want the same to happen with the UK.

No, I mean how did something that contributes less than 0.5% of GDP and which in England is 80% or so owned by either foreign companies or five families, become a hill to die on?

Oh, I know. Sovereignty, dimly remembered member stiffening "wars" over cod and Cunt Farage and his ridiculous stunts (plus negligent lack of representation of his beloved country in EU fishing committee meetings).

[Sandstorm]

How exactly did fish become so important, ffs?

Because the EU want have the fish and eat it. they don't want the annual quotas negotiations that they have with Norway as that would would spell endless uncertainty for the EU. In theory, EU access to Norwegian waters would lapse if the annual talks collapsed and they don't want the same to happen with the UK.

No, I mean how did something that contributes less than 0.5% of GDP and which in England is 80% or so owned by either foreign companies or five families, become a hill to die on?

Oh, I know. Sovereignty, dimly remembered member stiffening "wars" over cod and Cunt Farage and his ridiculous stunts (plus negligent lack of representation of his beloved country in EU fishing committee meetings).

Because it's small fry (he he) and actually very easy to monitor and for our dim politicians and negotiators to understand. Food transport across multiple borders is a much bigger fish to fry, hence why no-one in Whitehall is actually talking about it in public.

[Tichtheid]

Because the EU want have the fish and eat it. they don't want the annual quotas negotiations that they have with Norway as that would would spell endless uncertainty for the EU. In theory, EU access to Norwegian waters would lapse if the annual talks collapsed and they don't want the same to happen with the UK.

No, I mean how did something that contributes less than 0.5% of GDP and which in England is 80% or so owned by either foreign companies or five families, become a hill to die on?

Oh, I know. Sovereignty, dimly remembered member stiffening "wars" over cod and Cunt Farage and his ridiculous stunts (plus negligent lack of representation of his beloved country in EU fishing committee meetings).

Because it's small fry (he he) and actually very easy to monitor and for our dim politicians and negotiators to understand. Food transport across multiple borders is a much bigger fish to fry, hence why no-one in Whitehall is actually talking about it in public.

I think fishing is symbolic in many ways, "Island Nation", "Britannia Rules the Waves" and all that shite, it also plays well in the press

[Hal Jordan]

They terk err feash!

[Longshanks]

Britain will not enjoy the benefits of EU membership from the outside: "There will be a clear difference between being a full member of the Union, and being just a valued partner." Says Ursula

Let's not forget, a Canada FTA is still pretty rubbish, and it is no way near the benefits of full membership. Only 0.8% better off than no deal over 10 years. It's hardly cake and eat it.
I'm not exactly sure what she is worrying about
Anyone?

[Sandstorm]

Let's not forget, a Canada FTA is still pretty rubbish, and it is no way near the benefits of full membership.

But FREEDOM!!!!!!

[Longshanks]

Let's not forget, a Canada FTA is still pretty rubbish, and it is no way near the benefits of full membership.

But FREEDOM!!!!!!

Yes. For people like Nige, that's all that matters.
But a Canada style FTA will not be better than full membership. Everyone knows that. So get the deal done and move on.
UK no longer spoiling things for the rest.