Kiwis - the Scott Watson Verdict? "Sound" or not?

Where goats go to escape
Post Reply
User avatar
Enzedder
Posts: 3531
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:55 pm
Location: Hamilton NZ

I see that Watson has been denied parole again. He has always stated that he is innocent and it appears that the parole board have decided that he is not going to be released until he accepts the verdict. What a catch 22.

I have never been comfortable that they got this one right.
Marlborough Sounds Hope-Smart murders: Double killer Scott Watson's parole bid declined again

Ben Smart and Olivia Hope disappeared 20 years ago while celebrating New Year's in the Marlborough Sounds. Their bodies have never been recovered.

Marlborough Sounds double-killer Scott Watson has today had his third bid for parole declined.

Scott Watson, 49, made his latest attempt at freedom in front of Parole Board at Rolleston Prison, south of Christchurch, this morning.

"It's a no to parole, which perhaps won't surprise you," panel convenor Sir Ron Young told Watson today.

"Really the ball's in your court and I hope you can work with Corrections to improve your chances."

Read More
Chasing Ghosts: Murder In The Sounds
Marlborough Sounds Hope-Smart murders: Scott Watson granted new appeal - NZ Herald
Detectives' one regret about Scott Watson case - NZ Herald
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/marlborou ... VASFMOJMY/

New DNA analysis led to Scott Watson appeal hearing on Smart and Hope murders - NZ Herald
Watson appeared in a prison-issue tracksuit flanked by his lawyer Kerry Cook and a prison guard. He had four support people there.

He has spent more than 22 years behind bars after being sentenced to life in prison with a minimum non-parole period of 17 years for the 1998 murders of Olivia Hope, 17, and Ben Smart, 21.

Scott Watson, pictured in 2015, has always maintained his innocence.

He has always denied killing, or even ever meeting, Hope and Smart after New Year's celebrations in a Marlborough Sounds holiday hideaway.


The friends disappeared after boarding a stranger's yacht early on January 1, 1998 after marking the new year with friends at Furneaux Lodge, a century-old, boat access-only resort in Endeavour Inlet. Their bodies have never been found.

Cook argued that any residual risk Watson posed could be mitigated, as he has a sound address to go to, family support, and would be monitored through GPS tracking. He wouldn't speak to the media for fear of upsetting victims, the board was told.

Watson has had good conduct and behaviour in prison and been working as a lead carpenter, as well as a prison painter - a sought-after job because he can move about the prison.

He also has a partner on the outside, the board was told.

Watson said he had been in a steady relationship for the past 16 years.

Panel convenor Young said Watson needed to address risks raised in psychiatric reports through psychological treatment programmes before parole could be granted.

But Watson said although he was "willing to do the treatment", he said that the programmes "demand I confess and explain a crime I didn't commit".

"She told me I had to address a murder confession," said Watson, who believed he was not allowed to do a group treatment programme because it required admitting an offence.

One of Watson's support people said officials were working on a false premise that he did the crime.

Young, however, assured them there are other options. He said Watson wasn't unique – plenty of people in prison deny their crimes.

He said he still needs to do the work.

"I don't want you in prison for the rest of your life," the panel convenor said.

He said Watson needs to find a psychologist he felt he could trust.

Another support person told the board: "He's a good human. Obviously he's got a long road ahead."

One of the board conveners asked Watson what's gone on for him over the past four years.

"I'm almost 50 years old," Watson replied.

"I suppose I'm not as arrogant, I suppose I'm more humble."

"It's been really good to talk to you," Young said. "I hope you understand what the plan is to get you out safely."

Watson was last denied parole in 2016. In its decision, the Parole Board said: "The person who committed these crimes was a cold-blooded killer. His victims must have died in terrible circumstances. Mr Watson has been found to be that man beyond reasonable doubt."

Watson submitted back in 2016 that he did not pose an undue risk to the safety of the community and asked to be released, but the Parole Board found otherwise.

"We are clear that Mr Watson has considerably more work to do before he will no longer pose an undue risk," the board said four years ago.

But Watson and his supporters - the case has long divided public opinion – were given fresh hope in June this year after Justice Minister Andrew Little announced that Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy had referred his case back to the Court of Appeal for a new hearing.

It came after an investigation by former High Court judge Sir Graham Panckhurst QC raised concerns about forensic evidence used to convict Watson.

"The primary basis of his application was that the DNA evidence linking two hairs removed from a blanket seized from Mr Watson's boat with Ms Hope was unreliable," the Ministry of Justice said.

An earlier appeal to the Court of Appeal in 2000 was unsuccessful, as was his subsequent application for leave to appeal to the Privy Council.

Watson then applied for a royal prerogative of mercy in November 2008.

That was assessed by Kristy McDonald QC and also ultimately declined by Governor-General Sir Jerry Mateparae in July 2013, on the advice of the then-Minister of Justice Judith Collins.

Watson applied again in 2017.
I drink and I forget things.
User avatar
Jb1981
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:00 pm

I have doubts. Lots of things in the timing, eye witness accounts, yachts/ketches have question marks.
obelixtim
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:30 am

Like the Crewe and the Bain cases, I think the cops made a pigs ear of this one. Too many questions to be comfortable with the conviction, and if he's already done a 20 year stretch surely it is time to let him out.
User avatar
Jimmy Smallsteps
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:24 pm
Location: Auckland

Bleeding hearts. The cops lifted hairs from Hope from his fucking boat, and there were scratches on the hatch that were damning as well.

Ketch versus sloop be fucking damned.

I was at Otago University at the time and apparently they left her(soon-to-be) room at Salmond Hall empty out of respect.
User avatar
Enzedder
Posts: 3531
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:55 pm
Location: Hamilton NZ

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:10 am Bleeding hearts. The cops lifted hairs from Hope from his fucking boat, and there were scratches on the hatch that were damning as well.

Ketch versus sloop be fucking damned.

I was at Otago University at the time and apparently they left her(soon-to-be) room at Salmond Hall empty out of respect.
I note this in one report

"However, in June, the governor-general referred Watson’s case back to the Court of Appeal, after an investigation by retired judge Sir Graham Panckhurst raised concerns about forensic evidence used to convict Watson.
That appeal is likely to be heard in mid-2021 and, even if Watson’s parole bid is unsuccessful, he can apply for bail prior to the appeal."
I drink and I forget things.
Maniototo Man
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:16 pm

I am keeping tabs on the cricket this morning on the Cricinfo website and they allow people to post comments which come up on the commentary text.

This morning someone posted along the lines of: "It's a great day out here on the Marlborough Sounds. I'm enjoying giving my yacht a thorough deep clean while following the cricket - Scott Watson." :wtf:

It stayed up a couple of overs and then was deleted.
Last edited by Maniototo Man on Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ScarfaceClaw
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:11 pm

Saw that as well. Was quickly removed...
User avatar
Jb1981
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:00 pm

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:28 pm Saw that as well. Was quickly removed...
Gone quicker than alternative theories from consideration?
User avatar
Jimmy Smallsteps
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:24 pm
Location: Auckland

Enzedder wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:14 pm
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:10 am Bleeding hearts. The cops lifted hairs from Hope from his fucking boat, and there were scratches on the hatch that were damning as well.

Ketch versus sloop be fucking damned.

I was at Otago University at the time and apparently they left her(soon-to-be) room at Salmond Hall empty out of respect.
I note this in one report

"However, in June, the governor-general referred Watson’s case back to the Court of Appeal, after an investigation by retired judge Sir Graham Panckhurst raised concerns about forensic evidence used to convict Watson.
That appeal is likely to be heard in mid-2021 and, even if Watson’s parole bid is unsuccessful, he can apply for bail prior to the appeal."
Fair enough Enz. One from the Keystone cops file along the lines of the Bain(o) investigation.

Geez there are plenty of people all too keen to believe in a conspiracy theory too though eh.
User avatar
Mr Bungle
Posts: 744
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:14 pm

I am friends with Olivia’s sister. My brother flatted with Ben’s sister. I am Globus.
User avatar
Enzedder
Posts: 3531
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:55 pm
Location: Hamilton NZ

I don't have a guilty or innocent tag for Watson and I am bloody glad I wasn't on the jury because I think either verdict could be wrong.

Re the hair on the blanket, I do note this from Herald article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/nati ... Ben-Smart/
Which leaves the two blonde hairs found on a blanket, with a tiger pattern, retrieved from Scott Watson’s bunk.

They were matched to Olivia by DNA and described as "compelling", if the jury accepted them, in Kirsty McDonald’s report.

In a circumstantial case, the hairs were the only physical evidence linking Watson to the missing pair.

About 400 strands of hair were taken from the blanket. No blonde hairs were found on the first examination in January 1998.

In March, after samples of Olivia’s hairs were sent to the ESR laboratory, the tiger blanket strands were checked again.

They were examined on the same day, by the same scientist, on the same table as the reference hairs from Olivia. There was also a cut in the bag holding her hair.

This time, two strands of blonde hair - one 15cm long, the other 25cm - were found in the blanket example.


These circumstances raise the possibility of accidental contamination. But a new report commissioned by the Watsons, by forensic scientist Sean Doyle, questions whether the hairs even belonged to Olivia.

Doyle’s 22-page report claims there were significant weaknesses in how ESR handled the hairs and identified the DNA.

"The hair and DNA evidence falls some way short of current standards and, in some respects, fell short of standards at the time."

The Doyle report forms part of a second application for the Royal Prerogative of Mercy lodged with the Ministry of Justice in November.

Yet another legal avenue for Watson, possibly another dead end.

"I’m feeling tired. It would be really nice to see an end to this," says Chris Watson, of his 20 years of protesting his son’s innocence.

"I feel angry about it. It might not be a rage but it’s a slow burning anger that these people have got away with this. They’ve got away with it for so long."
I drink and I forget things.
Ghost-Of-Nepia
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:18 pm

Mr Bungle wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:47 am I am friends with Olivia’s sister. My brother flatted with Ben’s sister. I am Globus.
We've discussed this. You're Globungle.
User avatar
Mr Bungle
Posts: 744
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:14 pm

Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:18 am
Mr Bungle wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:47 am I am friends with Olivia’s sister. My brother flatted with Ben’s sister. I am Globus.
We've discussed this. You're Globungle.
That’s also all I can add to this discussion. Not something one brings up in conversation.
User avatar
Uncle fester
Posts: 4147
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm

Enzedder wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:54 pm I don't have a guilty or innocent tag for Watson and I am bloody glad I wasn't on the jury because I think either verdict could be wrong.

Re the hair on the blanket, I do note this from Herald article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/nati ... Ben-Smart/
Which leaves the two blonde hairs found on a blanket, with a tiger pattern, retrieved from Scott Watson’s bunk.

They were matched to Olivia by DNA and described as "compelling", if the jury accepted them, in Kirsty McDonald’s report.

In a circumstantial case, the hairs were the only physical evidence linking Watson to the missing pair.

About 400 strands of hair were taken from the blanket. No blonde hairs were found on the first examination in January 1998.

In March, after samples of Olivia’s hairs were sent to the ESR laboratory, the tiger blanket strands were checked again.

They were examined on the same day, by the same scientist, on the same table as the reference hairs from Olivia. There was also a cut in the bag holding her hair.

This time, two strands of blonde hair - one 15cm long, the other 25cm - were found in the blanket example.


These circumstances raise the possibility of accidental contamination. But a new report commissioned by the Watsons, by forensic scientist Sean Doyle, questions whether the hairs even belonged to Olivia.

Doyle’s 22-page report claims there were significant weaknesses in how ESR handled the hairs and identified the DNA.

"The hair and DNA evidence falls some way short of current standards and, in some respects, fell short of standards at the time."

The Doyle report forms part of a second application for the Royal Prerogative of Mercy lodged with the Ministry of Justice in November.

Yet another legal avenue for Watson, possibly another dead end.

"I’m feeling tired. It would be really nice to see an end to this," says Chris Watson, of his 20 years of protesting his son’s innocence.

"I feel angry about it. It might not be a rage but it’s a slow burning anger that these people have got away with this. They’ve got away with it for so long."
That the only evidence against him or is there more (including circumstantial) evidence?
User avatar
Torquemada 1420
Posts: 10978
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:22 am
Location: Hut 8

obelixtim wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:57 am Like the Crewe and the Bain cases, I think the cops made a pigs ear of this one. Too many questions to be comfortable with the conviction, and if he's already done a 20 year stretch surely it is time to let him out.
That would be an admission they f**ked up and leave them open to being sued?
User avatar
Torquemada 1420
Posts: 10978
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:22 am
Location: Hut 8

Guy Wallace was adamant he had dropped Smart and Hope off at a wooden ketch with two masts, a description which was supported by Hayden Morresey. Wallace also described the unknown man he dropped them off with as unshaven with wavy medium-length hair. [8] Detective Inspector Rob Pope took over the police investigation, and decided within two weeks that Picton resident Scott Watson was the unknown man, although Watson was clean shaven, had short hair, and owned a single-masted steel sloop, Blade.[7
Mother of god. These guys been taking tips from The Met?
Post Reply