The Brexit Thread

[JM2K6]

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

[robmatic]

There's no such thing as, 'internal', anymore.

Look at your own list; Energy; the UK still wants to be part of the EU Energy market, & export & import energy when it suits the UK. Doesn't EDF have a significant position in the UK energy market ?

Railway; where do the railways buy their rolling stock from ?; the market for locos is global; if you decide to buy them from a national manufacturer, regardless of their competition; then you are putting your fingers on the the scales of competition, & you can expect the competition to be pissed.

Broadband; as a service you have a number of providers who are International, & if someone like BT is also selling broadband in the EU, they could be using their, unfair, monopoly position in the UK to subsidize their operations in the EU.

Companies have spent the last 40 odd years creating economies of scale, & trying to build a business that spawned across the whole EU, so they could get the best of all those Nations; & now the UK is expecting to stand up on January 1st, with no legacy of those decisions .... not going to happen !

We’ll see.

Two points - firstly, for us to incur tariffs, there has to be a material impact on trade. Demonstrated and proven to the arbitration panel. Procurement laws and practices can be done in a way that has reasonable terms for keeping things local to reduce carbon blah, blah,blah. So rolling stock can feasibly be procured locally without breaching the treaty. Repeated fir turbines or nuclear reactors etc.

Secondly, I’m not saying we have to nationalise the like of energy or broadband in the traditional sense. We could do it using the investment strategy used on that satellite firm I mentioned. Or introduce greater innovation tax breaks etc.

There are lots of levers (excuse the pun) that can be explored and pulled more quickly as we don’t have to pass everything through the eu.

We’re at the beginning of a global energy, data and tech revolution. I’m just saying, I find dynamism in this phase of a development cycle a good thing. Being out of the eu increases dynamism for me.

The UK doesn't produce enough electricity to power itself and has to import from France and the Netherlands. If we're not in the energy market, the lights go out.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/demand/percent

Interestingly, UK access to the EU energy market is up for renegotiation at exactly the same date as the fishing deal expires.

https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/stat ... 56833?s=20

[tc27]

The consequences of leaving the single market I am afraid...fresh produce and live animal exports to the EU will require the highest level of inspection at the borders - the costs and complexities will simply stop SMEs being able to do it. Lamb exports are a massive issue here to - I am waiting to see how farmers get on?

Someone I know sells toy soldiers (dont laugh) and has loads of EU based customers:

From 2021, all EU sales will no longer be charged VAT. This will automatically reduce the base costs of an order by 20%.
For the moment, postal charges will remain unchanged. However, once your order arrives in your country, you will be liable to be charged VAT and a local tariff if applicable. We cannot tell you what this will be, as each country within the EU sets its own rates and thresholds for payments, as well as classifications of goods, (as they are all sovereign states and the EU has no centralised control over them). Experience tells us that the general rate of collection of these charges on mail order goods depends on the diligence (or lack therof) of local postal services, and that most charges are not picked up. However, that is a generalisation not a promise!
The amount of paperwork at our end will go up considerably, and we will have to declare the cost of the goods on any paperwork and customs declarations. This total will not include p&p costs. Please don’t ask us to under-declare totals – these are legal documents and form part of our VAT records, and we are not going to break the law. If you know that your country will impose a tarrif on ‘Models’, but not on ‘Toys’ (or vice versa), please let us know when you place the order. We will work with you as best we can.
Some of you have outstanding orders with us waiting to be processed, and you will already have been charged VAT on these. If they are sent out to you after January 1st, you will be refunded the VAT total. I will be in contact with you in turn as we get to your order.

Already going to have to change this as advised him 'toys' require a CE mark.

Many people will pay the price for the Tory MP's who insisted on the most ideologically pure form of Brexit.

[I like neeps]

Simplistic indeed.

There is no point about crying over spilt milk but there's 0 reason to celebrate life being made worse either.

[tc27]

Blackford is so full of sh*t.

'Scotland a historic European trading nation until the act of Union'? What utter bollocks is this.

[laurent]

Blackford is so full of sh*t.

'Scotland a historic European trading nation until the act of Union'? What utter bollocks is this.

Well they did have close ties with France

[tc27]

Blackford is so full of sh*t.

'Scotland a historic European trading nation until the act of Union'? What utter bollocks is this.

Well they did have close ties with France

The auld alliance was on balance a disaster for Scotland - it generally involved invading the North of England getting thumped by the northern levies (with the monarch and most of the aristocracy either killed or captured).

[Random1]

Simplistic indeed.

There is no point about crying over spilt milk but there's 0 reason to celebrate life being made worse either.

Then we are aligned - I don’t celebrate it (for the record, I was a remainer).

I’m just more optimistic that we’ll make a success of it all.

[fishfoodie]

I think the torries will potentially “invest” rather than subsidise in companies trading externally, for example, that satellite firm they bought a controlling share in last year.

Cheer up guys; any change = opportunity; let’s grab it.

Are invest and bought synonymous with pissed up the wall? And where is the money for investment going to come from, or put another way are you Corbyn?

Yeah, that particular, investment, isn't one I'd be calling out as an example.

The U.K. is set to scrap former Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan to replace access to the EU’s satellite navigation system Galileo after Brexit with a home-grown equivalent.

The UK Space Agency is expected to announce that contracts awarded to U.K. space companies to build the British Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) will not be extended beyond their expiration date at the end of this month.

This will effectively put the nail in the coffin of May’s plan to replace Galileo’s Public Regulated Service — the encrypted part designed to guide missiles and plan military operations — with a domestic global alternative estimated to cost between £3 billion and £5 billion.

The UK invested 400 million in a bankrupt company, with some satellites that weren't suitable for the intended purpose, & then took 18 months to admit they fucked up & just shitcanned the project.

If it's an example of anything, it's that Politicians, (& the cuntish advisors), don't do business, & they certainly don't do science.

[Hal Jordan]

You'll forgive me for not being optimistic about the giant shit sandwich being foisted on me by lying cunts and the horrible cunts behind them and being told that I should be happy that the bread is fresh.

Fuck Brexit and fuck the fuckers who brought it to pass.

[Random1]

I think the torries will potentially “invest” rather than subsidise in companies trading externally, for example, that satellite firm they bought a controlling share in last year.

Cheer up guys; any change = opportunity; let’s grab it.

Are invest and bought synonymous with pissed up the wall? And where is the money for investment going to come from, or put another way are you Corbyn?

Yeah, that particular, investment, isn't one I'd be calling out as an example.

The U.K. is set to scrap former Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan to replace access to the EU’s satellite navigation system Galileo after Brexit with a home-grown equivalent.

The UK Space Agency is expected to announce that contracts awarded to U.K. space companies to build the British Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) will not be extended beyond their expiration date at the end of this month.

This will effectively put the nail in the coffin of May’s plan to replace Galileo’s Public Regulated Service — the encrypted part designed to guide missiles and plan military operations — with a domestic global alternative estimated to cost between £3 billion and £5 billion.

The UK invested 400 million in a bankrupt company, with some satellites that weren't suitable for the intended purpose, & then took 18 months to admit they fucked up & just shitcanned the project.

If it's an example of anything, it's that Politicians, (& the cuntish advisors), don't do business, & they certainly don't do science.

They haven’t canned it. That full article says there are technical challenges, but I read it as saying the system is still part of the mix.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Are invest and bought synonymous with pissed up the wall? And where is the money for investment going to come from, or put another way are you Corbyn?

Yeah, that particular, investment, isn't one I'd be calling out as an example.

The U.K. is set to scrap former Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan to replace access to the EU’s satellite navigation system Galileo after Brexit with a home-grown equivalent.

The UK Space Agency is expected to announce that contracts awarded to U.K. space companies to build the British Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) will not be extended beyond their expiration date at the end of this month.

This will effectively put the nail in the coffin of May’s plan to replace Galileo’s Public Regulated Service — the encrypted part designed to guide missiles and plan military operations — with a domestic global alternative estimated to cost between £3 billion and £5 billion.

The UK invested 400 million in a bankrupt company, with some satellites that weren't suitable for the intended purpose, & then took 18 months to admit they fucked up & just shitcanned the project.

If it's an example of anything, it's that Politicians, (& the cuntish advisors), don't do business, & they certainly don't do science.

They haven’t canned it. That full article says there are technical challenges, but I read it as saying the system is still part of the mix.

Probably in the same way Netscape and Mozilla are still part of the technology landscape. If you’re Dido Harding then sure it’s cutting edge stuff.

[Random1]

You'll forgive me for not being optimistic about the giant shit sandwich being foisted on me by lying cunts and the horrible cunts behind them and being told that I should be happy that the bread is fresh.

Fuck Brexit and fuck the fuckers who brought it to pass.

Forgiveness not necessary - I know not everyone is as optimistic as I am. I’m not being massively evangelical about it, I’m just pointing out that change always means opportunities and resisting/complaining about change after it’s already happened is a waste of energy.

If your focus is on the people that ultimately won the argument and their way, then can I assume you’re equally as angry at the twats that lost the debate to remain?

[SaintK]

You'll forgive me for not being optimistic about the giant shit sandwich being foisted on me by lying cunts and the horrible cunts behind them and being told that I should be happy that the bread is fresh.

Fuck Brexit and fuck the fuckers who brought it to pass.

The moronic cunt Francois in his usual style

Back in the Commons Mark Francois, the chair of the Conservative European Research Group, says tomorrow night the UK will leave the EU “forever”. He quotes approvingly what Nigel Farage, the Brexit party leader, said last week about “the war” being “over” as a result of this deal. Francois says:
What I call the battle for Brexit is now over. We won.
Francois also compares this to the “cry freedom” moment in Mel Gibson’s Braveheart.

Such a shame that the police didn't refer their enquiries to the CPS

[Random1]

Yeah, that particular, investment, isn't one I'd be calling out as an example.



The UK invested 400 million in a bankrupt company, with some satellites that weren't suitable for the intended purpose, & then took 18 months to admit they fucked up & just shitcanned the project.

If it's an example of anything, it's that Politicians, (& the cuntish advisors), don't do business, & they certainly don't do science.

They haven’t canned it. That full article says there are technical challenges, but I read it as saying the system is still part of the mix.

Probably in the same way Netscape and Mozilla are still part of the technology landscape. If you’re Dido Harding then sure it’s cutting edge stuff.

Ha! Indeed - that was cretinous.

[JM2K6]

You'll forgive me for not being optimistic about the giant shit sandwich being foisted on me by lying cunts and the horrible cunts behind them and being told that I should be happy that the bread is fresh.

Fuck Brexit and fuck the fuckers who brought it to pass.

Forgiveness not necessary - I know not everyone is as optimistic as I am. I’m not being massively evangelical about it, I’m just pointing out that change always means opportunities and resisting/complaining about change after it’s already happened is a waste of energy.

If your focus is on the people that ultimately won the argument and their way, then can I assume you’re equally as angry at the twats that lost the debate to remain?

Your relentless "both sides" approach really grates.


Fun thread, this:

[Hal Jordan]

Also coming, gerrymandering the constituency borders to get a likely 10 extra Tory seats, plus lifting the election spending cap from £19. 5m to £33m which will benefit one party and one party only.

Parliament has been sidelined at every turn in a power grab of really terrible proportions by some real sociopathic types. Relentless undermining and attacking every method of accountability, purging of the unfaithful and filling the Cabinet with nodding dogs of none of the talents to avoid all scrutiny.

[Random1]

You'll forgive me for not being optimistic about the giant shit sandwich being foisted on me by lying cunts and the horrible cunts behind them and being told that I should be happy that the bread is fresh.

Fuck Brexit and fuck the fuckers who brought it to pass.

Forgiveness not necessary - I know not everyone is as optimistic as I am. I’m not being massively evangelical about it, I’m just pointing out that change always means opportunities and resisting/complaining about change after it’s already happened is a waste of energy.

If your focus is on the people that ultimately won the argument and their way, then can I assume you’re equally as angry at the twats that lost the debate to remain?

Your relentless "both sides" approach really grates.


Fun thread, this:

At the risk of being whooshed - I’m not on both sides though am I?

I’m saying the people who are being pessimistic and wallowing in a lost battle are taking the wrong approach for me.

My way is better

I understand why they’re doing it - I just don’t agree on its utility.

[eldanielfire]

Most Brits don’t study abroad because they don’t want to and don’t speak the language. Nothing new or revolutionary here. Erasmus is getting people hot under the collar, but it really isn’t a big deal

It might be that Johnson stood up in Parliament and said it was going nowhere, and lo and behold it was tossed aside faster than one of his paramours.

And apparently has a scheme to replace it. O don't see why it's such a massive deal to some. Scrapping it without some alternative would be.

[JM2K6]

Forgiveness not necessary - I know not everyone is as optimistic as I am. I’m not being massively evangelical about it, I’m just pointing out that change always means opportunities and resisting/complaining about change after it’s already happened is a waste of energy.

If your focus is on the people that ultimately won the argument and their way, then can I assume you’re equally as angry at the twats that lost the debate to remain?

Your relentless "both sides" approach really grates.


Fun thread, this:

At the risk of being whooshed - I’m not on both sides though am I?

I’m saying the people who are being pessimistic and wallowing in a lost battle are taking the wrong approach for me.

My way is better

I understand why they’re doing it - I just don’t agree on its utility.

"I assume you're equally angry at the twats that lost the debate to remain" is ridiculous and pointless both-sidesism. You clearly aren't stupid, so I'm sure you do actually understand the difference between people who didn't want things to change and the people who forced the change and lied completely about what it would entail in order to get the change through. The blame for Brexit is never on the people who didn't want Brexit.

[Biffer]

We’ll see.

Two points - firstly, for us to incur tariffs, there has to be a material impact on trade. Demonstrated and proven to the arbitration panel. Procurement laws and practices can be done in a way that has reasonable terms for keeping things local to reduce carbon blah, blah,blah. So rolling stock can feasibly be procured locally without breaching the treaty. Repeated fir turbines or nuclear reactors etc.

Secondly, I’m not saying we have to nationalise the like of energy or broadband in the traditional sense. We could do it using the investment strategy used on that satellite firm I mentioned. Or introduce greater innovation tax breaks etc.

There are lots of levers (excuse the pun) that can be explored and pulled more quickly as we don’t have to pass everything through the eu.

We’re at the beginning of a global energy, data and tech revolution. I’m just saying, I find dynamism in this phase of a development cycle a good thing. Being out of the eu increases dynamism for me.

The UK doesn't produce enough electricity to power itself and has to import from France and the Netherlands. If we're not in the energy market, the lights go out.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/demand/percent

Yes, but we’re trying to make strides to become self sufficient or an exporter.

Here’s just one project https://www.constructionenquirer.com/20 ... ar-plants/

But there are more in terms of wind etc.

Point is, we’re not. Right now, leaving the European energy market would turn the lights off. Future plans are irrelevant for what happens, right now.

And, given the renegotiation for both fishing and electricity is in five years, we’re not getting full control of our fishing if we want the lights to stay on.

We might be trying to expand our generation capacity, but we’re also looking to close down old nuclear plants and high carbon facilities.

And if Scotland becomes independent, England’s electricity supply is a bit fûcked.

[westport]

Blackford is so full of sh*t.

'Scotland a historic European trading nation until the act of Union'? What utter bollocks is this.

The Lard of the Isles is a complete embarrassment

[Random1]

Your relentless "both sides" approach really grates.


Fun thread, this:

At the risk of being whooshed - I’m not on both sides though am I?

I’m saying the people who are being pessimistic and wallowing in a lost battle are taking the wrong approach for me.

My way is better

I understand why they’re doing it - I just don’t agree on its utility.

"I assume you're equally angry at the twats that lost the debate to remain" is ridiculous and pointless both-sidesism. You clearly aren't stupid, so I'm sure you do actually understand the difference between people who didn't want things to change and the people who forced the change and lied completely about what it would entail in order to get the change through. The blame for Brexit is never on the people who didn't want Brexit.

Ah, with you now.

Yes - i do see that aspect as being a both side issue.

I do blame the remainer side for their fair share of the result.

Anyone that’s ever argued for the status quo knows that they need to have a substantial message of hope weaved into the narrative - relying on the fear of change is never a good tactic. That’s especially true of a status quo that doesn’t deliver on a human level for many of the people you need to convince.

Leavers did that.

Remainders didn’t. And for me didn’t even try - they just fought a defensive battle throughout.

There’re plenty of positives out there at the moment, from the exciting space missions through to new energy tech etc, even exciting military tech would have floated some boats. These are points where an argument could be made that our resources, pooled, would make Europe the envy of the world. We could have announced a big ambitious project, like a person on Mars mission and got the blood flowing in a few people.

I’m not saying it would have caused a huge swing, but they only needed a very small swing to win it.

So, yes, I do blame both sides.

But I wasn’t really driving at that in my question, I was pointing out that if we do really want to gaze at each other’s belly buttons, then analysing just one party in the debate leads to the same bloody partisan lines as before, meaning we’ll never move forward!

Which is a point I would have added to my list of reasons for whinging about brexit are futile.

[JM2K6]

I never knew the ERG were anything more than just a weirdly named pressure / lobbying group



Literally taxpayer funded? What, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck

[JM2K6]

Random1, I don't know what country you're living in - or what world, really - but this boundless optimism does not match the facts.

And a man on Mars would be a hideously expensive boondoggle. What a complete waste of everyone's time.

[GogLais]

Blackford is so full of sh*t.

'Scotland a historic European trading nation until the act of Union'? What utter bollocks is this.

Well they did have close ties with France

The auld alliance was on balance a disaster for Scotland - it generally involved invading the North of England getting thumped by the northern levies (with the monarch and most of the aristocracy either killed or captured).

Over the centuries history is littered with instances of when the French were going to come to the aid of the Welsh, Irish, Scots or rebel English. Nothing ever came of them.

[Biffer]

Blackford is so full of sh*t.

'Scotland a historic European trading nation until the act of Union'? What utter bollocks is this.

Scotland had significant trade with the Low countries and Scandinavia in the sixteenth century. England wasn’t its biggest trading partner, or even its second biggest.

[laurent]

Never for the Welsh ...

[fishfoodie]

Well they did have close ties with France

The auld alliance was on balance a disaster for Scotland - it generally involved invading the North of England getting thumped by the northern levies (with the monarch and most of the aristocracy either killed or captured).

Over the centuries history is littered with instances of when the French were going to come to the aid of the Welsh, Irish, Scots or rebel English. Nothing ever came of them.

I don't know; the lads building Forts, & Martello towers did quite well out of the threat of a garlic muncher invasion.

[GogLais]

Never for the Welsh ...

They turned up to help Glyndwr in August 1405 and they left in November. Never forgiven them.

[Random1]

Random1, I don't know what country you're living in - or what world, really - but this boundless optimism does not match the facts.

And a man on Mars would be a hideously expensive boondoggle. What a complete waste of everyone's time.

The UK. I live in the midlands, if that helps.

The Mars mission would not be a waste of money. It would (will - as someone will do it) create so much technological advances that we’d be ahead in everything from propulsion through to hydroponics. It is exactly the sort of project that disparate parts of a union need to form a common purpose, create jobs and create pride in ourselves.

Unifying big state projects on science should be encouraged.

On the wider point of my optimism - philosophically I’m primarily a stoic. I try to control what I can and try to let the uncontrollable look after itself.

We’ve crossed the rubicon on brexit. There is literally no value in talking Britain down, nor in rehashing old arguments for me. I can’t control what has already gone, so I’m focusing on what is likely to make my country and me successful.

I think optimism is generally more productive than pessimism, but I would say that; I’m an optimist by nature!

[Random1]

The UK doesn't produce enough electricity to power itself and has to import from France and the Netherlands. If we're not in the energy market, the lights go out.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/demand/percent

Yes, but we’re trying to make strides to become self sufficient or an exporter.

Here’s just one project https://www.constructionenquirer.com/20 ... ar-plants/

But there are more in terms of wind etc.

Point is, we’re not. Right now, leaving the European energy market would turn the lights off. Future plans are irrelevant for what happens, right now.

And, given the renegotiation for both fishing and electricity is in five years, we’re not getting full control of our fishing if we want the lights to stay on.

We might be trying to expand our generation capacity, but we’re also looking to close down old nuclear plants and high carbon facilities.

And if Scotland becomes independent, England’s electricity supply is a bit fûcked.

Yeah, I can see in the short term there’ll be an issue. That’s precisely why I’m saying we should invest in it.

I can’t see an eventuality where France and the Netherlands don’t sell us energy. It’ll cost us more, but that’ll just make the sums for the energy independent strategy, that I’m sure will be a big factor in our infrastructure plan, stack up even more.

[frodder]

Deal passed

521 vs 73

[fishfoodie]

Deal passed

521 vs 73

after less scrutiny than the average punter gives to the Apple Ts & Cs when they buy an iphone.

[Saint]

I never knew the ERG were anything more than just a weirdly named pressure / lobbying group



Literally taxpayer funded? What, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck

Yeah, there's a system/allowance in parliament that allows MPs to claim expenses for funding "independent research" This is supposed to be apolitical research published for all parties to review. The ERG have claimed hundreds of thousands of pounds through this system with no clear published material - and during a legal right to see what work had been done yet released some that was reviewed by independent experts ho deemed it highly political. Yet nothing was done about it

[JM2K6]

Random1, I don't know what country you're living in - or what world, really - but this boundless optimism does not match the facts.

And a man on Mars would be a hideously expensive boondoggle. What a complete waste of everyone's time.

The UK. I live in the midlands, if that helps.

The Mars mission would not be a waste of money. It would (will - as someone will do it) create so much technological advances that we’d be ahead in everything from propulsion through to hydroponics. It is exactly the sort of project that disparate parts of a union need to form a common purpose, create jobs and create pride in ourselves.

Unifying big state projects on science should be encouraged.

Manned missions to Mars are a total waste of everyone's time. There's lots of serious scientists in related fields who will tell you that the expense and danger completely outweigh whatever potential gains there are (don't get them started on the concept of a "Mars base", either).

And I cannot for the life of me see how "announcing a manned mission to Mars" is something that the Remainers could have done or how it's anything to do with the vote. It's all pie-in-the-sky stuff and completely ignores how these things are planned, funded, and announced.

On the wider point of my optimism - philosophically I’m primarily a stoic. I try to control what I can and try to let the uncontrollable look after itself.

We’ve crossed the rubicon on brexit. There is literally no value in talking Britain down, nor in rehashing old arguments for me. I can’t control what has already gone, so I’m focusing on what is likely to make my country and me successful.

I think optimism is generally more productive than pessimism, but I would say that; I’m an optimist by nature!

It's not optimism, it's (as mentioned before) a Melchett-style refusal to look the facts in the face. Why on earth should Remainers look at the heap of shit we've been handed and be yelled at for not being optimistic? The problems don't go away just by ignoring them and pretending everything's going to be fine.

We've taken a country that's had a decade of austerity and ripped it out of Europe, replacing it with something guaranteed to make things worse, all while being governed by a bunch of hapless, hopeless fanatics. You want to talk positives? Find some - not meaningless platitudes about how change is healthy. Real, concrete examples. Please.

[SaintK]

Deal passed

521 vs 73

...............after just 5 hours of parliamentary scrutiny!

[Sandstorm]

Manned Mission to Mars will bring the country together? We can't even agree on a new train line to Birmingham.....

[I like neeps]

Random1, I don't know what country you're living in - or what world, really - but this boundless optimism does not match the facts.

And a man on Mars would be a hideously expensive boondoggle. What a complete waste of everyone's time.

The UK. I live in the midlands, if that helps.

The Mars mission would not be a waste of money. It would (will - as someone will do it) create so much technological advances that we’d be ahead in everything from propulsion through to hydroponics. It is exactly the sort of project that disparate parts of a union need to form a common purpose, create jobs and create pride in ourselves.

Unifying big state projects on science should be encouraged.

On the wider point of my optimism - philosophically I’m primarily a stoic. I try to control what I can and try to let the uncontrollable look after itself.

We’ve crossed the rubicon on brexit. There is literally no value in talking Britain down, nor in rehashing old arguments for me. I can’t control what has already gone, so I’m focusing on what is likely to make my country and me successful.

I think optimism is generally more productive than pessimism, but I would say that; I’m an optimist by nature!

It's also not talking Britain down to note the inconveniences brexit has created and the rights we've all lost. And a space race to mars is pointless. All the technology advances you mention could be researched independently. And there's no political space race to mars ongoing like the capitalism Vs communism moon landings for everyone to get behind. The European Union has Mars missions ongoing, you might be interested to know. But nobody is planning on putting a man there because it's pointless. All the satellites they have on there nowadays is much more useful than a person physically being there anyway.

The UK would be much better focusing on life sciences and environmental energies. Which they can do, but would've been easier in Europe. Not talking the UK down, that's just what experts in those areas think.

Also, we haven't crossed the Rubicon. The deal is up for renegotiation in five years time. When the actual annoyances of brexit are felt and whoever is in power is looking for a quick GDP boost we'll see what happens. Brexit is done, but we've got a relationship with the EU until either the UK stops existing or the EU does.

[SaintK]

Manned Mission to Mars will bring the country together? We can't even agree on a new train line to Birmingham.....

Which is probably going to end up costing as much as manned mission to Mars!!!