Stop voting for fucking Tories

[GogLais]

Runners and riders odds for being shuffled out of the cabinet should there be one from Politico website
The utterly inept and useless Williamson looks hot favourite at the moment and he's still got the post Christmas return to school and colleges to manage yet. Which already looks like a shambles in waiting

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-cab ... d-losers/

Theoretically now Brexit is done and Cummings' big brain project is done you could bring in the sensibles and clear out the ideologues.

Are there any ‘sensibles’ to bring in?

All lost their seats or didn't stand last time. As far as PM is concerned I cant think of a time when there were so few credible candidates for the job, whether or not one agreed with their policies.

[PlanetGlyndwr]

Raab can fuck off the disingenious plum

[fishfoodie]

I think the French need to consider filling in their end of the tunnel; there seems to be a succession of rats invading the country.

The father of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he is in the process of applying for a French passport to maintain his ties with the European Union after Brexit.

Stanley Johnson, a former member of the European Parliament who voted Remain in Britain's 2016 referendum, told RTL radio he wanted to become a French citizen because of strong family links to France.

"If I understand it correctly, I am French. My mother was born in France, her mother was totally French as was her grandfather. So for me it is about reclaiming what I already have. And that makes me very happy," said 80-year-old Mr Johnson, who was speaking in French.

[Uncle fester]

I don't think it's that you're no longer, "entitled"; it's that is discretionary; & it's only fair that Governments get judged on when they choose not to provide assistance to their citizens, when they are in trouble.

Look at the case of the guy fitted up for spying in Russia, he had rights to US, Canadian, UK, & Irish citizenship, & as a result all provided consular services.

That guy didn't have Russian citizenship so of course he would be entitled to consular services from his own national governments in Russia.

The issue generally for dual citizens is that the host country isn't obligated to provide access to consular officials when it is holding one of its own citizens, unlike the situation with foreign nationals.

As I understand it, Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been getting some consular assistance up to and including cackhanded diplomatic interventions from the bumbling Foreign Secretary of the time - but she's never been entitled to this and it shouldn't be a matter of outrage to say so.

Notwithstanding Bojo’s disastrous interventions, in the case of Iran it’s generally better for the FCO not to get involved at all, especially with individuals with dual nationality. The Iranians regard any intervention by a foreign power as proof that the person they are holding is a) important, and b) a spy, and the more the FCO tries to put pressure on them, the more this reinforces their views.

I know of other cases involving dual nationals where the person’s family has specifically requested the British Government not to comment at all about their detention. Those cases have been dealt with by lawyers in Iran, resulting in the person’s eventual release because the Iranian authorities decided there was nothing to be gained from continuing to hold them.

Honestly?
It just highlights the UK as being weak.

[fishfoodie]

When you've so many properties, you just forget a few here & there .....

The Conservative MP Richard Drax has now added the plantation he has inherited in Barbados to the parliamentary register of members’ interests after the Observer revealed omissions and errors in his declaration.

Three weeks ago, the Observer revealed that Drax, the MP for South Dorset since 2010, had taken control of the 250-hectacre Drax Hall Plantation, where his ancestors had a slave workforce from 1640-1836. We also revealed that he is the wealthiest landowner in the House of Commons worth as much as £150m, although he and his family draw a tight veil over their finances.

...

Noted for his Downton Abbey lifestyle, Richard Drax was gifted the Drax Hall plantation by his father who died in July 2017. He told the Observer three weeks ago that he had not added it to the register because it was still in probate. Under the “miscellaneous” section of the register, the new entry refers to Drax Hall only as a “business property” and suggests it is still in probate.

In the new register released last week, Drax has added other assets we had identified as previously missing. These include agricultural land in North Yorkshire that he now admits he inherited on 8 April 2019. The guidelines say he should have registered the property within 28 days. He does not say whether this includes both Swaledale estates, the Ellerton Abbey farming estate of 2,200 acres and the Copperthwaite Allotment, a grouse moor of 520 acres.

Again remedying another long-term omission he refers to a “residential property in Dorset” – probably the £4.5m holiday let on Sandbanks he has owned personally since 2009 and lets out at £6,750 per week in peak season.


He has now declared that his trust in Surrey owns a commercial property which has never appeared in the register before. He also refers to the overarching family business by name for the first time. He says he is the “beneficiary of a family trust” that forms part “of the wider family property businesses known locally as the Charborough Estate”.

He has also now provided a first reference to the Drax Dorset property empire. “There are a significant number of properties in each category and some are in joint ownerships with family members and other trusts.”

Our research has shown that the Charborough estate has at least 5,600 hectares owned by five trusts. This includes “the R G Drax Accumulation and Maintenance Settlement” through which the MP is the beneficiary of income from the estate and some 125 properties in Dorset. The new detail provided is still the minimum required by the register and does not give a big picture of the wealth and holdings of Drax and his family.

Drax has also corrected the entry errors that he made under the shareholding section of the register including adding a company that should have been registered several years ago.

....

Why do people vote for scum like this ?

Do they really think they give a fuck about their constituencies ?

[Sandstorm]

You mean if you’re also a rich landowner who doesn’t like peasants?

[Hal Jordan]

Noted for his Downton Abbey lifestyle, Richard Drax was gifted the Drax Hall plantation by his father who died in July 2017. He told the Observer three weeks ago that he had not added it to the register because it was still in probate. Under the “miscellaneous” section of the register, the new entry refers to Drax Hall only as a “business property” and suggests it is still in probate.

Although in nigh on two decades of administering estates I have never used the phrase "in probate", I can easily believe that it has taken this long to get it into his name. I doubt the Inheritance Tax papers went in for at least four months after the father's death, and I expect HMRC would have referred a lot of the assets to the Valuation Office et al, especially with foreign assets and claims for Agricultural Property and Business Property Relief. There were probably a few trusts thrown in which often muddies the waters (possibly even Settled Land Act property which is another thing altogether).

I'm willing to bet that the Plantation (Christ, at least change the name, how tone deaf are they?) was unregistered land and that takes forever to get onto the Land Registry.

Throw in mass delays in all departments due to Covid and three odd years isn't that surprising.

[SaintK]

A wee bit of unrest in the camp and not from the usual suspects. Won't make a jot of difference at the mopment but no longer seen as the conquering hero that helped them win their seats!!!
Both The FT and Politico reporting this.

Two members of the 2019 intake said they had on Monday submitted letters of no-confidence in Mr Johnson to Graham Brady, who chairs the 1922 committee of backbench MPs that governs leadership contests. “I’m completely fed up. He just can’t lead and this can’t go on,” one said.

[Hal Jordan]

Some other cunt will become Prime Minister, it's not like getting rid of Johnson will change the current make up of the leadership or back benches.

[SaintK]

Jenrick's mate judging the mood!

A Conservative minister has been branded “out of touch” after suggesting people to drown the sorrows of 2020 with a £170 bottle of champagne.
Amidst an economic recession and global pandemic, minister for housing Christopher Pincher said described Krug Grand Cru Cuvée as an "alternative vaccine” against the “memory of last year”.
In an article for conservative culture magazine The Critic, the minister wrote that a bottle of the wine was "ideal for lifting the spirit and lighting up a darkening winter afternoon,” noting its flavours of "tart satsuma" and "light, tight, nutty effervescence".

[Slick]

Jenrick's mate judging the mood!

A Conservative minister has been branded “out of touch” after suggesting people to drown the sorrows of 2020 with a £170 bottle of champagne.
Amidst an economic recession and global pandemic, minister for housing Christopher Pincher said described Krug Grand Cru Cuvée as an "alternative vaccine” against the “memory of last year”.
In an article for conservative culture magazine The Critic, the minister wrote that a bottle of the wine was "ideal for lifting the spirit and lighting up a darkening winter afternoon,” noting its flavours of "tart satsuma" and "light, tight, nutty effervescence".

That seems a little like clutching at straws to find a stick to beat them to be honest. A guy is asked to write about champagne in a small cultural magazine, and does.

[SaintK]

Jenrick's mate judging the mood!

A Conservative minister has been branded “out of touch” after suggesting people to drown the sorrows of 2020 with a £170 bottle of champagne.
Amidst an economic recession and global pandemic, minister for housing Christopher Pincher said described Krug Grand Cru Cuvée as an "alternative vaccine” against the “memory of last year”.
In an article for conservative culture magazine The Critic, the minister wrote that a bottle of the wine was "ideal for lifting the spirit and lighting up a darkening winter afternoon,” noting its flavours of "tart satsuma" and "light, tight, nutty effervescence".

That seems a little like clutching at straws to find a stick to beat them to be honest. A guy is asked to write about champagne in a small cultural magazine, and does.

Yeah, I know
But he's the one that signed of all that money that went to Jenrick's constituency when there were dozens that were below it that received nothing!

[SaintK]

I'm sure it doesn't, but it will be, with the worst Prime Minister in living memory leading it!

Boris Johnson to 250 business leaders today:
- ‘This government does not want to be defined by portmanteau words Covid and Brexit’

[Insane_Homer]

Might I suggest incompetent and corrupt instead?

[fishfoodie]

I'm sure it doesn't, but it will be, with the worst Prime Minister in living memory leading it!

Boris Johnson to 250 business leaders today:
- ‘This government does not want to be defined by portmanteau words Covid and Brexit’

Events, dear boy, events…

That's what every Government is judged on; & justifiably so.

If they want the job, they deal with all that it brings with it; & don't piss & moan when reality intervenes in their plans.

[I like neeps]

I'm sure it doesn't, but it will be, with the worst Prime Minister in living memory leading it!

Boris Johnson to 250 business leaders today:
- ‘This government does not want to be defined by portmanteau words Covid and Brexit’

Events, dear boy, events…

That's what every Government is judged on; & justifiably so.

If they want the job, they deal with all that it brings with it; & don't piss & moan when reality intervenes in their plans.

They could also be remembered for their relationship with Trump...

[Random1]

So which Uk government over the last 30 years do you think would have handled it better?

Not saying bojo is anything great, but he really has had a shitty hand. Not sure I’d have expected much more from any of his predecessors.

[fishfoodie]

So which Uk government over the last 30 years do you think would have handled it better?

Not saying bojo is anything great, but he really has had a shitty hand. Not sure I’d have expected much more from any of his predecessors.

Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Gavin Williamson would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Liz Truss would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Chris Grayling would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Suella Braverman would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that has stated it's intention to deliberately break International Law ?

Shall I go on ?

[Paddington Bear]

So which Uk government over the last 30 years do you think would have handled it better?

Not saying bojo is anything great, but he really has had a shitty hand. Not sure I’d have expected much more from any of his predecessors.

Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Gavin Williamson would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Liz Truss would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Chris Grayling would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Suella Braverman would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that has stated it's intention to deliberately break International Law ?

Shall I go on ?

Notoriously, over the last 30 years Britain has been excellently governed

[fishfoodie]

So which Uk government over the last 30 years do you think would have handled it better?

Not saying bojo is anything great, but he really has had a shitty hand. Not sure I’d have expected much more from any of his predecessors.

Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Gavin Williamson would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Liz Truss would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Chris Grayling would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Suella Braverman would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that has stated it's intention to deliberately break International Law ?

Shall I go on ?

Notoriously, over the last 30 years Britain has been excellently governed

Excellence is in the eye of the beholder.

For the last 30 years Britain has had Government; but for the last decade, it's been like a shopping trolley with one wheel locked solid, & the other three rotating around, & around, & fighting every attempt to move it in any direction

[dpedin]

There is incompetence ... and then there is complete and utter incompetence and this Gov is the latter and has been deplorable. It takes some level of shittiness to be in the top 3 of the excess death and the biggest drop in GDP tables at the same time in responding to a pandemic, particularly as an island nation and the 5th (or 8th depending on how you measure it) richest nation in the world. We have easily had one of the worst responses to covid19 anywhere in the world, aligned ourself with the racist, white nationalist US President and inflicted enormous economic self harm in a disastrous Brexit without as of yet anyone able to demonstrate a single benefit from it.

I thought it really enlightening when the Blonde Bumblecunt was asked to describe the benefits of Brexit to the 'man from Leigh' and talked about banning pulse fishing and fictitious inward investments. Even worse was when he was asked about what he was doing about Mental Health during lock down by a girl worried about her mother and he invented a fictitious £13m investment! He and his Brexit Ultras are following the Trump handbook and we are now in the position where our Gov are having to be fact checked after every speech, such as Brandon Lewis saying there is no trade border in the Irish Sea. We are following the exact same pattern as the US where if the Gov is caught telling a lie then the strategy is to tell an even bigger lie more loudly. Ironically we are now hitting peak Trumpism just as Trump is becoming delusional and getting kicked out of the Presidency - as usual the UK is late to the party.

Asking which gov could have done better is a fatuous argument, its a bit like comparing rugby players from different generations. All you can do is measure them based on what they did when dealing with the opposition or difficult circumstances in front of them and I am afraid to say this current Gov has failed absolutely miserably on all fronts. Who honestly now listens to the Blonde Bumblecunt and trusts or believes a single word he says. We have ended up pissing off our biggest trading partner in the EU and the leader of the biggest single economy in the incoming US President whilst we pander to the dodgy money coming from Russia (we now have the son of an ex KGB official in the HoL) and China by being one of the largest, and best, money laundering centres in the world.

Having said you can't compare different generations, my opinion on could any previous Gov done better - labour or conservative? Without a shadow of a doubt yes!

[I like neeps]

So which Uk government over the last 30 years do you think would have handled it better?

Not saying bojo is anything great, but he really has had a shitty hand. Not sure I’d have expected much more from any of his predecessors.

Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Gavin Williamson would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Liz Truss would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Chris Grayling would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Suella Braverman would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that has stated it's intention to deliberately break International Law ?

Shall I go on ?

Notoriously, over the last 30 years Britain has been excellently governed

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

[dpedin]

Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Gavin Williamson would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Liz Truss would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Chris Grayling would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Suella Braverman would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that has stated it's intention to deliberately break International Law ?

Shall I go on ?

Notoriously, over the last 30 years Britain has been excellently governed

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

I honestly can't believe we have sunk so low that we are now immune to the level of incompetence, fraudulent behaviour, lying and utter contempt that this current Gov holds the public in. We are repeating the same pattern that the US followed with Trump and are blind to it.

[fishfoodie]

Notoriously, over the last 30 years Britain has been excellently governed

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

I honestly can't believe we have sunk so low that we are now immune to the level of incompetence, fraudulent behaviour, lying and utter contempt that this current Gov holds the public in. We are repeating the same pattern that the US followed with Trump and are blind to it.

It came up repeatedly during the Brexit interviews with EU nationals; how they grew up admiring UK Politics compared to their own countries, and was a model for the Institutions & Leadership to have; & how Brexit, (& it's genesis), had completely destroyed that view.

[SaintK]

Great judge of character our PM
[media] [/media]

[Random1]

There is incompetence ... and then there is complete and utter incompetence and this Gov is the latter and has been deplorable. It takes some level of shittiness to be in the top 3 of the excess death and the biggest drop in GDP tables at the same time in responding to a pandemic, particularly as an island nation and the 5th (or 8th depending on how you measure it) richest nation in the world. We have easily had one of the worst responses to covid19 anywhere in the world, aligned ourself with the racist, white nationalist US President and inflicted enormous economic self harm in a disastrous Brexit without as of yet anyone able to demonstrate a single benefit from it.

I thought it really enlightening when the Blonde Bumblecunt was asked to describe the benefits of Brexit to the 'man from Leigh' and talked about banning pulse fishing and fictitious inward investments. Even worse was when he was asked about what he was doing about Mental Health during lock down by a girl worried about her mother and he invented a fictitious £13m investment! He and his Brexit Ultras are following the Trump handbook and we are now in the position where our Gov are having to be fact checked after every speech, such as Brandon Lewis saying there is no trade border in the Irish Sea. We are following the exact same pattern as the US where if the Gov is caught telling a lie then the strategy is to tell an even bigger lie more loudly. Ironically we are now hitting peak Trumpism just as Trump is becoming delusional and getting kicked out of the Presidency - as usual the UK is late to the party.

Asking which gov could have done better is a fatuous argument, its a bit like comparing rugby players from different generations. All you can do is measure them based on what they did when dealing with the opposition or difficult circumstances in front of them and I am afraid to say this current Gov has failed absolutely miserably on all fronts. Who honestly now listens to the Blonde Bumblecunt and trusts or believes a single word he says. We have ended up pissing off our biggest trading partner in the EU and the leader of the biggest single economy in the incoming US President whilst we pander to the dodgy money coming from Russia (we now have the son of an ex KGB official in the HoL) and China by being one of the largest, and best, money laundering centres in the world.

Having said you can't compare different generations, my opinion on could any previous Gov done better - labour or conservative? Without a shadow of a doubt yes!

Not sure I agree with the rugby analogy - rugby changes substantially over the decades, governance doesn’t, so comparisons are a little more open to compare and contrast reviews.

Having said that, the reason I limited it to 30 years, is the media have been a huge variable that I agree makes comparison difficult between the generations before the 24hr news cycle. I can only imagine the difference today’s media would have made to the reputations of Churchill or thatcher, or atlee etc etc. Suspect they would have been as vilified as boris or worse.

I suppose the point I’m making is that anyone can criticise, but to be fair to the government, they’ve made understandable calls throughout.

I’ve been in their position of making decisions impacting lots of people in a world where information is lacking - and getting things wrong is an absolute given.

I’d also counsel that relying on the stats on gdp and fatalities is premature at this point.

Firstly, comparing between countries is almost impossible due to measurement methodological variance.

Secondly, attributing blame to the government at this point is not fair in my view, as we don’t know what their options were and nor do we know their reasoning.

Basically, a crisis is not the time to be getting all cynical. Review it in the cold light of day afterwards. That’s when proper lesson learning, and fault identification happens.

I’ve said it before - the only criticism I think I’d make at the mo is the one I made earlier in a Fred somewhere; the lack of preparedness is shocking.

Much of this was anticipatable - and everyone from hospitals to schools should have had a plan in place for a pandemic. It would have made us better placed.

And, to answer my own question - I reckon there would be similar fuck ups, no matter the government. Maybe not the same things, at the same time, but still plenty to criticise and so, on balance, I don’t think there’s be a better response from other governments.

Ultimately, covid has made everyone look incompetent, calculating to what extent will only be accurate once everything has played out.

[Random1]

Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Gavin Williamson would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Liz Truss would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Chris Grayling would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Suella Braverman would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that has stated it's intention to deliberately break International Law ?

Shall I go on ?

Notoriously, over the last 30 years Britain has been excellently governed

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

Interesting! I’d have had May as the least likely to do well.

I suspect she would have come across like that baddy robot in robocop - she lacked humanity when there wasn’t a human crisis.

Reckon the police state would be in place.

I thought about Cameron, and reckon his team were too divided. Suspect all governments, other than boris, would have extended Brexit transition too, which would have led to even more unrest IMO.

It would have meant we would be in the EU queue for vaccines too, as I reckon they’d have bought into the eu procurement.

Gordon brown is an interesting call. Never rated him, but can’t actually remember why now!

[Slick]

There is incompetence ... and then there is complete and utter incompetence and this Gov is the latter and has been deplorable. It takes some level of shittiness to be in the top 3 of the excess death and the biggest drop in GDP tables at the same time in responding to a pandemic, particularly as an island nation and the 5th (or 8th depending on how you measure it) richest nation in the world. We have easily had one of the worst responses to covid19 anywhere in the world, aligned ourself with the racist, white nationalist US President and inflicted enormous economic self harm in a disastrous Brexit without as of yet anyone able to demonstrate a single benefit from it.

I thought it really enlightening when the Blonde Bumblecunt was asked to describe the benefits of Brexit to the 'man from Leigh' and talked about banning pulse fishing and fictitious inward investments. Even worse was when he was asked about what he was doing about Mental Health during lock down by a girl worried about her mother and he invented a fictitious £13m investment! He and his Brexit Ultras are following the Trump handbook and we are now in the position where our Gov are having to be fact checked after every speech, such as Brandon Lewis saying there is no trade border in the Irish Sea. We are following the exact same pattern as the US where if the Gov is caught telling a lie then the strategy is to tell an even bigger lie more loudly. Ironically we are now hitting peak Trumpism just as Trump is becoming delusional and getting kicked out of the Presidency - as usual the UK is late to the party.

Asking which gov could have done better is a fatuous argument, its a bit like comparing rugby players from different generations. All you can do is measure them based on what they did when dealing with the opposition or difficult circumstances in front of them and I am afraid to say this current Gov has failed absolutely miserably on all fronts. Who honestly now listens to the Blonde Bumblecunt and trusts or believes a single word he says. We have ended up pissing off our biggest trading partner in the EU and the leader of the biggest single economy in the incoming US President whilst we pander to the dodgy money coming from Russia (we now have the son of an ex KGB official in the HoL) and China by being one of the largest, and best, money laundering centres in the world.

Having said you can't compare different generations, my opinion on could any previous Gov done better - labour or conservative? Without a shadow of a doubt yes!

With respect dpedin, the government you support and defend so vociferously are also in the "utter incompetence" bracket so these posts always bring a wry smile.

[Random1]

Notoriously, over the last 30 years Britain has been excellently governed

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

I honestly can't believe we have sunk so low that we are now immune to the level of incompetence, fraudulent behaviour, lying and utter contempt that this current Gov holds the public in. We are repeating the same pattern that the US followed with Trump and are blind to it.

That’s exactly why I asked the question though; you’re acting as though this government is worse than all prior governments for cronyism, lying etc.

All government, viewed from the outside, can have those charges thrown at them.

[Paddington Bear]

Notoriously, over the last 30 years Britain has been excellently governed

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

Interesting! I’d have had May as the least likely to do well.

I suspect she would have come across like that baddy robot in robocop - she lacked humanity when there wasn’t a human crisis.

Reckon the police state would be in place.

I thought about Cameron, and reckon his team were too divided. Suspect all governments, other than boris, would have extended Brexit transition too, which would have led to even more unrest IMO.

It would have meant we would be in the EU queue for vaccines too, as I reckon they’d have bought into the eu procurement.

Gordon brown is an interesting call. Never rated him, but can’t actually remember why now!

May's instincts are the most authoritarian of any PM since Maggie, this is generally not a positive but probably would have been back in March. Her issue would have been, as someone mentioned, keeping her backbenches in line.
Cameron and Brown would have been broadly competent I think.

[Lobby]

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

Interesting! I’d have had May as the least likely to do well.

I suspect she would have come across like that baddy robot in robocop - she lacked humanity when there wasn’t a human crisis.

Reckon the police state would be in place.

I thought about Cameron, and reckon his team were too divided. Suspect all governments, other than boris, would have extended Brexit transition too, which would have led to even more unrest IMO.

It would have meant we would be in the EU queue for vaccines too, as I reckon they’d have bought into the eu procurement.

Gordon brown is an interesting call. Never rated him, but can’t actually remember why now!

May's instincts are the most authoritarian of any PM since Maggie, this is generally not a positive but probably would have been back in March. Her issue would have been, as someone mentioned, keeping her backbenches in line.
Cameron and Brown would have been broadly competent I think.

Brown was a generally poor PM, but actually came into his own in the immediate aftermath of the 2007 crash, when he took decisive action and helped to bring the world’s financial systems back from the brink. On that basis, I think he would have managed the crisis much better than Johnson.

Cameron I think would also have been reasonably competent, and would also have coordinated with the other members of the EU and the G7. May would have been hopeless, and would still have been trying to get parliament to agree to the first lock down.

[Lobby]

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

Interesting! I’d have had May as the least likely to do well.

I suspect she would have come across like that baddy robot in robocop - she lacked humanity when there wasn’t a human crisis.

Reckon the police state would be in place.

I thought about Cameron, and reckon his team were too divided. Suspect all governments, other than boris, would have extended Brexit transition too, which would have led to even more unrest IMO.

It would have meant we would be in the EU queue for vaccines too, as I reckon they’d have bought into the eu procurement.

Gordon brown is an interesting call. Never rated him, but can’t actually remember why now!

May's instincts are the most authoritarian of any PM since Maggie, this is generally not a positive but probably would have been back in March. Her issue would have been, as someone mentioned, keeping her backbenches in line.
Cameron and Brown would have been broadly competent I think.

Brown was a generally poor PM, but actually came into his own in the immediate aftermath of the 2007 crash, when he took decisive action and helped to bring the world’s financial systems back from the brink. On that basis, I think he would have managed the crisis much better than Johnson.

Cameron I think would also have been reasonably competent, and would also have coordinated with the other members of the EU and the G7. May would have been hopeless, and would still have been trying to get parliament to agree to the first lock down.

[Random1]

It was Botham that got me. A knighthood or OBE for services to cricket ok but a seat in the legislature? It’s shameful that we put up with it.

I’m not a big fan of an unelected chamber - but if an unelected chamber is the only show in town, I reckon beefy is a decent shout.

The point of lords members is supposed to be that they bring expertise from their lives.

Beefy has good knowledge of sport, TV and has massive charity links.

He’s also got a fair bit of experience developing a winery business which is importing and exporting around the world.

I reckon he’d be an interesting perspective to have around the table.

Maybe but there are what 800+ in the HoL? I’d be surprised if he brings any knowledge or experience that isn’t there already.

Sorry, just saw I didn’t respond.

Yeah, 800 is ridiculous for an upper chamber.

Should be limited to the same number as the commons and have a 20 cycle for me.

You get one term, so no re-election skull duggery

So, beefy is fine, but one of the old codgers needs to drop off the conveyor.

[Random1]

So which Uk government over the last 30 years do you think would have handled it better?

Not saying bojo is anything great, but he really has had a shitty hand. Not sure I’d have expected much more from any of his predecessors.

Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Gavin Williamson would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Liz Truss would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Chris Grayling would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that, Suella Braverman would have been judged adequate for ?
Can you tell us any; "government over the last 30 years", that has stated it's intention to deliberately break International Law ?

Shall I go on ?

Most of those were ministers in other governments too, so not really sure your point holds water.

[Random1]

Interesting! I’d have had May as the least likely to do well.

I suspect she would have come across like that baddy robot in robocop - she lacked humanity when there wasn’t a human crisis.

Reckon the police state would be in place.

I thought about Cameron, and reckon his team were too divided. Suspect all governments, other than boris, would have extended Brexit transition too, which would have led to even more unrest IMO.

It would have meant we would be in the EU queue for vaccines too, as I reckon they’d have bought into the eu procurement.

Gordon brown is an interesting call. Never rated him, but can’t actually remember why now!

May's instincts are the most authoritarian of any PM since Maggie, this is generally not a positive but probably would have been back in March. Her issue would have been, as someone mentioned, keeping her backbenches in line.
Cameron and Brown would have been broadly competent I think.

Brown was a generally poor PM, but actually came into his own in the immediate aftermath of the 2007 crash, when he took decisive action and helped to bring the world’s financial systems back from the brink. On that basis, I think he would have managed the crisis much better than Johnson.

Cameron I think would also have been reasonably competent, and would also have coordinated with the other members of the EU and the G7. May would have been hopeless, and would still have been trying to get parliament to agree to the first lock down.

Yeah, the reaction to the financial crisis was comparatively simple though, and relatively well trodden in terms of theory and the odd example of practice.

This is a novel situation (Spanish flu aside), and requiring a balance between health and the economy, which is really fucking tricky, as you’ll always be pissing someone off no matter what you do.

I’m not sure brown had the ability to inspire trust in him - I remember him being pretty insipid.

Agree on Cameron, and I suspect Blair would’ve been decent enough.

I reckon boris’ lot are middle of the pack. Not very good, but not the worst, and certainly not as bad as being made out on this thread.

[Ymx]

I quite enjoy reading the puerile seething hate in this thread.

[I like neeps]

Yeah, the reaction to the financial crisis was comparatively simple though, and relatively well trodden in terms of theory and the odd example of practice.

This is a novel situation (Spanish flu aside), and requiring a balance between health and the economy, which is really fucking tricky, as you’ll always be pissing someone off no matter what you do.

I’m not sure brown had the ability to inspire trust in him - I remember him being pretty insipid.

Agree on Cameron, and I suspect Blair would’ve been decent enough.

I reckon boris’ lot are middle of the pack. Not very good, but not the worst, and certainly not as bad as being made out on this thread.

Was QE on an unprecedented scale and global financial meltdown too well practiced? In the previous crashes there wasn't the stimulus options on offer.

What has Johnson done well so far? We'll see about the vaccinations which is promising and definitely could save the day. But lockdowns too late causing economic damage - amongst the worse and a very high death rate to boot. He destroyed the start of pandemic good will and has overseen the great 11bn PPE to mates scam. Where are the achievements?

[Random1]

Yeah, the reaction to the financial crisis was comparatively simple though, and relatively well trodden in terms of theory and the odd example of practice.

This is a novel situation (Spanish flu aside), and requiring a balance between health and the economy, which is really fucking tricky, as you’ll always be pissing someone off no matter what you do.

I’m not sure brown had the ability to inspire trust in him - I remember him being pretty insipid.

Agree on Cameron, and I suspect Blair would’ve been decent enough.

I reckon boris’ lot are middle of the pack. Not very good, but not the worst, and certainly not as bad as being made out on this thread.

Was QE on an unprecedented scale and global financial meltdown too well practiced? In the previous crashes there wasn't the stimulus options on offer.

What has Johnson done well so far? We'll see about the vaccinations which is promising and definitely could save the day. But lockdowns too late causing economic damage - amongst the worse and a very high death rate to boot. He destroyed the start of pandemic good will and has overseen the great 11bn PPE to mates scam. Where are the achievements?

Achievements from my pov;

The suite of industry guidance was very good. The thousands of pages of stuff put together quickly and it gave critical sectors such as construction a strong steer, allowing them to adapt their working practices to work safely. This is a massively under appreciated piece of work

Ventilator industry problem solving. Organising that has put us in decent nick, where others have been short

Getting brexit finalised and no delays. I know you don’t like the treaty, but we could have had a full schism if that had been delayed. It would have been like it is in America, where concentration moved from covid to the election outcome. As it was, the result was decent enough that covid is still the main talking point.

Vaccines. Choosing to stay out of the eu mess and back our scientists with funding. Creating by far the most flexible vaccine option, not just for us, but the world (except South Africa ).

Furlough - the scheme is pretty decent compared to others and is unpopular with the right wing. That could have been a very different set of choices.

Suspension of evictions and court actions for rent payments was a brave call considering the competing interests.

Putting proper scientists out to talk the public through things. Again, I bet there were plenty behind the scenes saying vallance et al are verbal chloroform and should be replaced by a comms specialist. So that was not as easy a call as you’d think.

The comms strategy around washing hands, social distancing etc has been very effective from the start.

Those are just some things off the e top of my head, but I’ll repeat, the dust needs to settle before this analysis has any meaning.

There’ll be a meta analysis done in a few years that will show whether we are as high in the fatality charts as currently shown and will pour over what choices were made and which was the best.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

[Openside]

Think Theresa May would've been more decisive in locking down sooner but there'd be more vocal anti lockdown telegraph op-eds from one err Boris Johnson.

Think Gordon Brown would've performed better too. Not really sure about Cameron alone and them Cameron and Clegg mind. Don't think many would've given 11bn to their mates in PPE contracts.

I honestly can't believe we have sunk so low that we are now immune to the level of incompetence, fraudulent behaviour, lying and utter contempt that this current Gov holds the public in. We are repeating the same pattern that the US followed with Trump and are blind to it.

That’s exactly why I asked the question though; you’re acting as though this government is worse than all prior governments for cronyism, lying etc.

All government, viewed from the outside, can have those charges thrown at them.

Quite. There is some spectacular speculative nonsense on this thread

[I like neeps]

Yeah, the reaction to the financial crisis was comparatively simple though, and relatively well trodden in terms of theory and the odd example of practice.

This is a novel situation (Spanish flu aside), and requiring a balance between health and the economy, which is really fucking tricky, as you’ll always be pissing someone off no matter what you do.

I’m not sure brown had the ability to inspire trust in him - I remember him being pretty insipid.

Agree on Cameron, and I suspect Blair would’ve been decent enough.

I reckon boris’ lot are middle of the pack. Not very good, but not the worst, and certainly not as bad as being made out on this thread.

Was QE on an unprecedented scale and global financial meltdown too well practiced? In the previous crashes there wasn't the stimulus options on offer.

What has Johnson done well so far? We'll see about the vaccinations which is promising and definitely could save the day. But lockdowns too late causing economic damage - amongst the worse and a very high death rate to boot. He destroyed the start of pandemic good will and has overseen the great 11bn PPE to mates scam. Where are the achievements?

Achievements from my pov;

The suite of industry guidance was very good. The thousands of pages of stuff put together quickly and it gave critical sectors such as construction a strong steer, allowing them to adapt their working practices to work safely. This is a massively under appreciated piece of work

Ventilator industry problem solving. Organising that has put us in decent nick, where others have been short

Getting brexit finalised and no delays. I know you don’t like the treaty, but we could have had a full schism if that had been delayed. It would have been like it is in America, where concentration moved from covid to the election outcome. As it was, the result was decent enough that covid is still the main talking point.

Vaccines. Choosing to stay out of the eu mess and back our scientists with funding. Creating by far the most flexible vaccine option, not just for us, but the world (except South Africa ).

Furlough - the scheme is pretty decent compared to others and is unpopular with the right wing. That could have been a very different set of choices.

Suspension of evictions and court actions for rent payments was a brave call considering the competing interests.

Putting proper scientists out to talk the public through things. Again, I bet there were plenty behind the scenes saying vallance et al are verbal chloroform and should be replaced by a comms specialist. So that was not as easy a call as you’d think.

The comms strategy around washing hands, social distancing etc has been very effective from the start.

Those are just some things off the e top of my head, but I’ll repeat, the dust needs to settle before this analysis has any meaning.

There’ll be a meta analysis done in a few years that will show whether we are as high in the fatality charts as currently shown and will pour over what choices were made and which was the best.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Fair enough there have been good actions taken. The decision to stay out of the EU vaccine scheme looks smart definitely. I think a lot of people in government have done good I just don't think Johnson is a good figurehead and his late decision making has cost the economy and lives.

I just don't know how much credit you get for a negotiation where you acquiesce to the other side's demand so much so the final treaty resembles their opening offer closely. The deal isn't very good in my opinion, no but from a politicking point of view I don't think it's a major achievement because it's really taking what was given.