Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Openside]

Not restricted to this particular topic, but I always cringe when I read something like this. To me it buys into the ‘masters and betters’ narrative of the class system that the people in power must be smarter than us and know more than us because they’re the people in power. Particularly if they went to the right school, have a plummy accent and inherited wealth.

That’s not directed really at you or this topic, it’s just a bit of phraseology that’s often thrown out to justify a line which grinds my gears.

I think you misunderstand me it is nothing to do with masters and betters being smarter than us - I have experience of this in the Army, soldiers moan about everything (and sometimes they are right to) but quite often things need to be done in a certain way to ensure things are not missed or happen safely. The soldiers are not aware of these constraints and are just moaning because the transport isn't there to collect them etc.

I think the government are doing a pretty good job in frankly appalling circumstances - half the country want to fuck the elderly to save the economy the other half are happy sitting on their arse getting paid 80% for walking the dog (all fractions are plucked out of thin air) - The country is horribly divides already over Brexit the pandemic is just making it worse. Sitting on the sidelines moaning about everything isn't helping anyone. If people are so convinced they have all the answers put your shoulder to the wheel and stand for election.

As I EXPLICITLY SAID it wasn’t aimed at you, it’s just a bit of phraseology that annoys me.

I understood it wasn't specifically directed at me but I wanted to clarify what I meant by my post.

[Insane_Homer]

I have done nothing of the sort you deluded cretin

If people are so convinced they have all the answers put your shoulder to the wheel and stand for election.

[Openside]

I have done nothing of the sort you deluded cretin

If people are so convinced they have all the answers put your shoulder to the wheel and stand for election.

So telling people that they should get involved in politics by standing for election is telling Scientists and entertainers to stay out of politics?? - you dribbling moron!!

[Insane_Homer]

How it started. - "I am sure you have never made a slip of the tongue It’s hardly headline news."


How it's going

... and re Abbott besides laughing at her terrible grasp of Maths, her hypocrisy and privately educating her son and appearing on telly wearing two left shoes there will be diddly squat.

"Never go full retard!!"

[Openside]

How it started. - "I am sure you have never made a slip of the tongue It’s hardly headline news."


How it's going

... and re Abbott besides laughing at her terrible grasp of Maths, her hypocrisy and privately educating her son and appearing on telly wearing two left shoes there will be diddly squat.

"Never go full retard!!"

You Desperate saddo!

besides you haven't produced the goods yet, those are the only things I might have commented on(along with most of the country) I wouldn't have taken the trouble of dragging something over from twitter and as yet you haven't produced a shred of evidence I comment on 'all things Labour'

Do you think Abbott would make a good Home Secretary??

[ASMO]

I’m not the one being super eager. The super eager ones are people wanting to blame a Tory for everything.

Firstly - the charge was that the torries had given a fat cheque to a donor, who was chair of the company.

Which isn’t supported by the facts.

There isn’t a central contract. The scheme involves schools being given grants and then they pay who they see fit. Or even use a voucher system if they choose.

So not sure how that’s a Tory issue.

Secondly, i was pointing out that this was trial by social media, which is a fucking disease IMO

The counter point made by the company seems reasonable to me. Unless you’re saying they’re lying that it was £10.50 and for 5 days.

For me, the company has no driver to lie about it, as those particular facts are specific and measurable, and so easily confirmed (or not) with even a cursory amount of investigation, so why lie if they’d be found out so simply?

Wish a journalist would actually do some work rather than just report what they’ve read on Twitter - it whips you guys up and just reinforces your prejudices.

Strange response, the Tories are in government they take the plaudits and the fall accordingly.
Chartwell have agreed they fecked up and apologised.
The PM and Hancock have said the company agreed that they would up their game and agreed to improve.
The appallingly stuff they have sent out is not in dispute by anyone.
And tbh both the PM and Hancock thanked social media for sgining a light on what Hancock called a disgrace.

Only the staunchest Trump like right wing Tory apologist would disagree and post whataboutery given the facts.

I agree, the packages were shit and a rip off.

But the charge earlier in the thread, was one of cronyism aimed at the government.

The government aren’t party to the contract. The schools pick the contractor. I was pointing out that this can’t be used as an example of cronyism.

My latter point on trial by social media is just a personal thing. I think it is one of the things that has led to such an ill informed society.

People leap to conclusions before someone has dug through the detail - that’s what journalists used to do for us. But now, we have to do it ourselves because speed is more important than complete, unbiased reporting.

That is not quite how it works. The government may have passed the money to the LA's, because it is taxpayers money they still have a duty of care to ensure it has used for the purposes for which it was given.
That it has been legally spent, and that value for money has been achieved and that there are proper controls and governance in place. They cannot novate that responsibility.

[SaintK]

How it started. - "I am sure you have never made a slip of the tongue It’s hardly headline news."


How it's going

... and re Abbott besides laughing at her terrible grasp of Maths, her hypocrisy and privately educating her son and appearing on telly wearing two left shoes there will be diddly squat.

"Never go full retard!!"

You Desperate saddo!

besides you haven't produced the goods yet, those are the only things I might have commented on(along with most of the country) I wouldn't have taken the trouble of dragging something over from twitter and as yet you haven't produced a shred of evidence I comment on 'all things Labour'

Do you think Abbott would make a good Home Secretary??

Never would have and never will. She's not even in the shadow cabinet anymore!!

[Insane_Homer]

How it started. - "I am sure you have never made a slip of the tongue It’s hardly headline news."


How it's going

... and re Abbott besides laughing at her terrible grasp of Maths, her hypocrisy and privately educating her son and appearing on telly wearing two left shoes there will be diddly squat.

"Never go full retard!!"

You Desperate saddo!

besides you haven't produced the goods yet, those are the only things I might have commented on(along with most of the country) I wouldn't have taken the trouble of dragging something over from twitter and as yet you haven't produced a shred of evidence I comment on 'all things Labour'

Do you think Abbott would make a good Home Secretary??

Not relevant and I find them both to be dire politicians.

You however have demonstrated your utter shameless hypocrisy by stating Dianne Abbott is fair game, because of innumeracy and shoes, even going as far as labelling her as retarded.

But Priti Patel should not be made fun of or criticised because of a 'slip of the tongue' or 'hard job' while demonstrating very similar traits in numeracy & language as Abbott, not withstanding also being a bully and guilty of breaking the ministerial code twice!

[Openside]

How it started. - "I am sure you have never made a slip of the tongue It’s hardly headline news."


How it's going


"Never go full retard!!"

You Desperate saddo!

besides you haven't produced the goods yet, those are the only things I might have commented on(along with most of the country) I wouldn't have taken the trouble of dragging something over from twitter and as yet you haven't produced a shred of evidence I comment on 'all things Labour'

Do you think Abbott would make a good Home Secretary??

Not relevant and I find them both to be dire politicians.

You however have demonstrated your utter shameless hypocrisy by stating Dianne Abbott is fair game, because of innumeracy and shoes, even going as far as labelling her as retarded.

But Priti Patel should not be made fun of or criticised because of a 'slip of the tongue' or 'hard job' while demonstrating very similar traits in numeracy & language as Abbott, not withstanding also being a bully and guilty of breaking the ministerial code twice!

I am quite happy for people to take the piss if they want to, I guess the whole cabinet are working pretty hard at the moment so the odd slip is to be expected. My issue is with your relentless whining like a bitch about everything!! You are as bad as Softie on Brexit.

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

[Insane_Homer]

mute me. I'll relent when they stop being despicable scum.

I guess the whole cabinet are working pretty hard at the moment

On nativity scenes and such and such?

or telling blatant lies?

or avoiding answering questions

[sockwithaticket]

Strange response, the Tories are in government they take the plaudits and the fall accordingly.
Chartwell have agreed they fecked up and apologised.
The PM and Hancock have said the company agreed that they would up their game and agreed to improve.
The appallingly stuff they have sent out is not in dispute by anyone.
And tbh both the PM and Hancock thanked social media for sgining a light on what Hancock called a disgrace.

Only the staunchest Trump like right wing Tory apologist would disagree and post whataboutery given the facts.

I agree, the packages were shit and a rip off.

But the charge earlier in the thread, was one of cronyism aimed at the government.

The government aren’t party to the contract. The schools pick the contractor. I was pointing out that this can’t be used as an example of cronyism.

My latter point on trial by social media is just a personal thing. I think it is one of the things that has led to such an ill informed society.

People leap to conclusions before someone has dug through the detail - that’s what journalists used to do for us. But now, we have to do it ourselves because speed is more important than complete, unbiased reporting.

That is not quite how it works. The government may have passed the money to the LA's, because it is taxpayers money they still have a duty of care to ensure it has used for the purposes for which it was given.
That it has been legally spent, and that value for money has been achieved and that there are proper controls and governance in place. They cannot novate that responsibility.

Unless something's changed since I was teaching, academies and free schools, of which there are far more than there used to be due to the mass academisation of Gove's EdSec reign, get funding straight from the DfE rather than the LA's. There's probably additional scope in there for the government to influence which method of utilising the money and which providers to siphon it off to are selected.

[Random1]

Strange response, the Tories are in government they take the plaudits and the fall accordingly.
Chartwell have agreed they fecked up and apologised.
The PM and Hancock have said the company agreed that they would up their game and agreed to improve.
The appallingly stuff they have sent out is not in dispute by anyone.
And tbh both the PM and Hancock thanked social media for sgining a light on what Hancock called a disgrace.

Only the staunchest Trump like right wing Tory apologist would disagree and post whataboutery given the facts.

I agree, the packages were shit and a rip off.

But the charge earlier in the thread, was one of cronyism aimed at the government.

The government aren’t party to the contract. The schools pick the contractor. I was pointing out that this can’t be used as an example of cronyism.

My latter point on trial by social media is just a personal thing. I think it is one of the things that has led to such an ill informed society.

People leap to conclusions before someone has dug through the detail - that’s what journalists used to do for us. But now, we have to do it ourselves because speed is more important than complete, unbiased reporting.

That is not quite how it works. The government may have passed the money to the LA's, because it is taxpayers money they still have a duty of care to ensure it has used for the purposes for which it was given.
That it has been legally spent, and that value for money has been achieved and that there are proper controls and governance in place. They cannot novate that responsibility.

Yup - agreed. I’d qualify that with; there’s no way to have that level of governance across scores of LAs in a crisis situation, but I’m happy to concede that the government have ultimate responsibility to ensure the money they take from us is spent wisely.

But that’s not the point I’m making, because that isn’t the point I was responding to.

The point made above, which is what I was responding to, was that the boxes were more evidence of government lining the pockets of a Tory donor.

The point I’m making is that, the government don’t make the decision where the money is spent, so they can’t be held at fault for cronyism on this account.

It’s a point I’ve been making on this thread for a while - there is a difference between incompetence and corruption. The latter being a really serious charge. The former is par for the course for politics.

I’d argue that this episode is at very worst incompetence, but the corruption angle is not supported.

[Insane_Homer]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

[dpedin]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

Hitler was 5'9" and Stalin 5'6".

[Slick]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

Hitler was 5'9" and Stalin 5'6".

Happy Hooker is 4’8” and is a right cunt

[TB63]

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

Hitler was 5'9" and Stalin 5'6".

Happy Hooker is 4’8” and is a right cunt

Stood on a crate..

[I like neeps]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

Everyone knows bullying is about height and gender (bullies can only be men, obviously) and absolutely nothing about power relations at all!

[Random1]

Not restricted to this particular topic, but I always cringe when I read something like this. To me it buys into the ‘masters and betters’ narrative of the class system that the people in power must be smarter than us and know more than us because they’re the people in power. Particularly if they went to the right school, have a plummy accent and inherited wealth.

That’s not directed really at you or this topic, it’s just a bit of phraseology that’s often thrown out to justify a line which grinds my gears.

Not sure that’s what openside means.

Have you been in a decision making position during a crisis where you’re making judgement calls on something that’ll impact others?

It’s not a criticism if you haven’t, not many people have managed crises, let alone one of this scale.

In case you haven’t, One of the things that is likely to happen is that people who aren’t ‘in the room’ criticise the decision from afar. They are often without all the facts you are in possession of, as in most highly complex, fast moving situations, there’s myriad things to balance.

I suspect open side may have been in that sort of a decision making role, as he’s got the humility to understand that he won’t know a fraction about the decision making criteria used to make the calls the ministers and civil servants are currently making.

His point about him not wanting to be a politician is a good one too.

I have, however the difference is that politicians dont do it for the benefit of people, only for political ends, the benefit of them or their mates or the party, those are the filters through which all of their decision making is made. I speak from experience having worked closely with politicians from all sides for many many years.

Really interesting.

That recent experience?

Not being a dick, I’m genuinely curious as to what sort of experience you’ve had, as I’m tip toeing into a more political world myself at the minute.

[fishfoodie]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

Hitler was 5'9" and Stalin 5'6".

Thatcher was 5ft 5ins, & had every man in the Cabinet shitting themselves.

[Openside]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

All right snowflake, I have no trouble believing that a 5ft 2” woman could bully you

[Openside]

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

Hitler was 5'9" and Stalin 5'6".

Happy Hooker is 4’8” and is a right cunt

[Insane_Homer]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

All right snowflake, I have no trouble believing that a 5ft 2” woman could bully you

So awesome that a couple of your narrow imagined scenarios are all that's needed to diverge from the facts, so it couldn't have happened...

She's twice been found to have bullied her own staff...

[Slick]

Not sure that’s what openside means.

Have you been in a decision making position during a crisis where you’re making judgement calls on something that’ll impact others?

It’s not a criticism if you haven’t, not many people have managed crises, let alone one of this scale.

In case you haven’t, One of the things that is likely to happen is that people who aren’t ‘in the room’ criticise the decision from afar. They are often without all the facts you are in possession of, as in most highly complex, fast moving situations, there’s myriad things to balance.

I suspect open side may have been in that sort of a decision making role, as he’s got the humility to understand that he won’t know a fraction about the decision making criteria used to make the calls the ministers and civil servants are currently making.

His point about him not wanting to be a politician is a good one too.

I have, however the difference is that politicians dont do it for the benefit of people, only for political ends, the benefit of them or their mates or the party, those are the filters through which all of their decision making is made. I speak from experience having worked closely with politicians from all sides for many many years.

Really interesting.

That recent experience?

Not being a dick, I’m genuinely curious as to what sort of experience you’ve had, as I’m tip toeing into a more political world myself at the minute.

No, it’s nonsense. There are certain parameters that most will stick by like in any organisation and there are some that are only in it for themselves, but the vast majority of politicians work bloody hard and are doing it for the right reasons.

[ASMO]

Not sure that’s what openside means.

Have you been in a decision making position during a crisis where you’re making judgement calls on something that’ll impact others?

It’s not a criticism if you haven’t, not many people have managed crises, let alone one of this scale.

In case you haven’t, One of the things that is likely to happen is that people who aren’t ‘in the room’ criticise the decision from afar. They are often without all the facts you are in possession of, as in most highly complex, fast moving situations, there’s myriad things to balance.

I suspect open side may have been in that sort of a decision making role, as he’s got the humility to understand that he won’t know a fraction about the decision making criteria used to make the calls the ministers and civil servants are currently making.

His point about him not wanting to be a politician is a good one too.

I have, however the difference is that politicians dont do it for the benefit of people, only for political ends, the benefit of them or their mates or the party, those are the filters through which all of their decision making is made. I speak from experience having worked closely with politicians from all sides for many many years.

Really interesting.

That recent experience?

Not being a dick, I’m genuinely curious as to what sort of experience you’ve had, as I’m tip toeing into a more political world myself at the minute.

My current role i work very closely with politicians including those up to ministerial level, i really cant say any more i am afraid but im am extremely familiar with the machinery of government and how it works.

[Slick]

I have, however the difference is that politicians dont do it for the benefit of people, only for political ends, the benefit of them or their mates or the party, those are the filters through which all of their decision making is made. I speak from experience having worked closely with politicians from all sides for many many years.

Really interesting.

That recent experience?

Not being a dick, I’m genuinely curious as to what sort of experience you’ve had, as I’m tip toeing into a more political world myself at the minute.

My current role i work very closely with politicians including those up to ministerial level, i really cant say any more i am afraid but im am extremely familiar with the machinery of government and how it works.

In fairness, to get to Ministerial level you have to be a certain type..... But there are hundreds of MP's/MSP's that have no Ministerial ambition and work hard for their constituents and beyond.

[ASMO]

Really interesting.

That recent experience?

Not being a dick, I’m genuinely curious as to what sort of experience you’ve had, as I’m tip toeing into a more political world myself at the minute.

My current role i work very closely with politicians including those up to ministerial level, i really cant say any more i am afraid but im am extremely familiar with the machinery of government and how it works.

In fairness, to get to Ministerial level you have to be a certain type..... But there are hundreds of MP's/MSP's that have no Ministerial ambition and work hard for their constituents and beyond.

They still have to toe the party line though, or have the whip removed, very few are willing to go down that line, so whilst they will work hard to represent their constituants this only holds so long as it is in line with the Party policies, as soon as that line is crossed their true colours show.

[SaintK]

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

Hitler was 5'9" and Stalin 5'6".

Happy Hooker is 4’8” and is a right cunt

Harsh! I've met him and he's at least 5' tall!!

[Slick]

They still have to toe the party line though, or have the whip removed, very few are willing to go down that line, so whilst they will work hard to represent their constituants this only holds so long as it is in line with the Party policies, as soon as that line is crossed their true colours show.

Well, they were elected on their party policy.

[Rinkals]

mute me. I'll relent when they stop being despicable scum.

I guess the whole cabinet are working pretty hard at the moment

On nativity scenes and such and such?

or telling blatant lies?

or avoiding answering questions

Christ, IH.

Have some pity.

[sturginho]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

All right snowflake, I have no trouble believing that a 5ft 2” woman could bully you

You're such a manly man

[C69]

Os

[Paddington Bear]

Frankly the whole bullying thing is bizarre, a knight of the realm quivering before some diminutive lady. People get shouted at - grow a backbone.

Bizarre is the tough guy ex-army mysogynist that doesn't believe a woman in power could be a bully because of her size and because bullying is obvs all about being physically intimidationing...

All right snowflake, I have no trouble believing that a 5ft 2” woman could bully you

The only time in my life I've felt properly bullied and not known how to deal with it was by a former manager who was a 5ft3" woman. The reason being that:
1) Most bullying is mental, particularly once we leave the playground
2) I could never bring myself to go off the handle/lamp her for obvious reasons, and she knew this

[Insane_Homer]

Another slip of the tongue eh, working hard or hardly workin?

[SaintK]

Another slip of the tongue eh, working hard or hardly workin?

What a monumental twat!
If I were him I would stear clear of any fishing ports for the foreseeable future
Not that he would deign to dirty his £700 a pair hand crafted Lobb Oxfords anywhere near one

[Insane_Homer]

[SaintK]

The Spartans are getting restless. They did for May but I can't believe they'd start rocking the boat in the middle of the worst crisis since WW2

Steve Baker, the deputy chair of the Covid Recovery Group (CRG), which represents anti-lockdown or lockdown-sceptic Conservative MPs, is urging colleagues to tell the chief whip that Boris Johnson could be forced out of office if he does not set out a clear plan for the end of restrictions, the Sun’s Harry Cole is reporting.

[media] [/media]

[JM2K6]

I do think it's important that the Government be open about what has to happen for lockdown to be eased - what milestones need to be hit, what metrics they're using. But fuck Baker and his cronies.

[Un Pilier]

I have, however the difference is that politicians dont do it for the benefit of people, only for political ends, the benefit of them or their mates or the party, those are the filters through which all of their decision making is made. I speak from experience having worked closely with politicians from all sides for many many years.

Really interesting.

That recent experience?

Not being a dick, I’m genuinely curious as to what sort of experience you’ve had, as I’m tip toeing into a more political world myself at the minute.

No, it’s nonsense. There are certain parameters that most will stick by like in any organisation and there are some that are only in it for themselves, but the vast majority of politicians work bloody hard and are doing it for the right reasons.

I too have been very close at a local and national level and there is truth in what Slick says, particularly at local level. I’m all for calling a wanker a wanker but there is far too much generalisation and instant stereotypical judgement imo. Overall, Twitter and stuff has proved to be a bit of a curse.

[Un Pilier]

I do think it's important that the Government be open about what has to happen for lockdown to be eased - what milestones need to be hit, what metrics they're using. But fuck Baker and his cronies.

This, this and this.

[Openside]

I have, however the difference is that politicians dont do it for the benefit of people, only for political ends, the benefit of them or their mates or the party, those are the filters through which all of their decision making is made. I speak from experience having worked closely with politicians from all sides for many many years.

Really interesting.

That recent experience?

Not being a dick, I’m genuinely curious as to what sort of experience you’ve had, as I’m tip toeing into a more political world myself at the minute.

No, it’s nonsense. There are certain parameters that most will stick by like in any organisation and there are some that are only in it for themselves, but the vast majority of politicians work bloody hard and are doing it for the right reasons.

That was my understanding too but I didn't want to stand in the way of rubbishing for rubbishing sake.