The Official English Rugby Thread

[sockwithaticket]

I have no ideas whether the players are shit or Gustard is but several years of Quins being less than the sum of the parts makes me worried that the issue is elsewhere.

Bit of column A and a bit of column B I reckon.

Quins might actually benefit from someone like Steve Diamond coming in - an established head guy with a, let's say, forceful personality. A middling, somewhat aimless side like Quins is probably not the ideal place for a newby like Gustard to cut his teeth and might need someone with a bull in a china shop approach to buck them up. I could, of course, be speaking absolute bollocks.

I wonder where and in what capacity he'll re-surface next. Will he take a head role with some other strugglers in hopes of keeping that dream alive or will he go back to being a defence specialist.

I'm less knowledgeable, but saw Gustard in a community coaches' clinic uploaded to youtube and it wouldn't surprise me if he is ALSO that kind of bully coach. Seemed gruff, blunt, and even swore - I recall him saying "fuck that" at an option in defence he didn't like. And this was with a bunch of school and club coaches. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard he's a fan of the ol' hair dryer set to max power.

For all that we have a certain impression of Diamond, those he worked with all seemed to like him a good deal. I think it's possible to be forthright and commanding, without being abusive or unpleasant (though Dimes certainly reserved some of that for certain members of the press!).

I saw it pointed out elsewhere that not only is Gustard himself a newby in the head role, where perhaps the demeanour you've described would fly a lot less well than as a specialist within a team, a lot of the coaches under him are in their first role or very green: Evans, Jones and Flannery.

[SaintK]

Bit of column A and a bit of column B I reckon.

Quins might actually benefit from someone like Steve Diamond coming in - an established head guy with a, let's say, forceful personality. A middling, somewhat aimless side like Quins is probably not the ideal place for a newby like Gustard to cut his teeth and might need someone with a bull in a china shop approach to buck them up. I could, of course, be speaking absolute bollocks.

I wonder where and in what capacity he'll re-surface next. Will he take a head role with some other strugglers in hopes of keeping that dream alive or will he go back to being a defence specialist.

I'm less knowledgeable, but saw Gustard in a community coaches' clinic uploaded to youtube and it wouldn't surprise me if he is ALSO that kind of bully coach. Seemed gruff, blunt, and even swore - I recall him saying "fuck that" at an option in defence he didn't like. And this was with a bunch of school and club coaches. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard he's a fan of the ol' hair dryer set to max power.

For all that we have a certain impression of Diamond, those he worked with all seemed to like him a good deal. I think it's possible to be forthright and commanding, without being abusive or unpleasant (though Dimes certainly reserved some of that for certain members of the press!).

I saw it pointed out elsewhere that not only is Gustard himself a newby in the head role, where perhaps the demeanour you've described would fly a lot less well than as a specialist within a team, a lot of the coaches under him are in their first role or very green: Evans, Jones and Flannery.

Good point. I assume that's why they've asked Bily Millard Rugby Operations Manager to oversee the coaching team on a temporary basis

[JM2K6]

Hmm, bit of a surprise even though it's clear we haven't had a coherent approach under Gustard, that if you were ever gonna change horses mid-stream this is the year to do it, and that he doesn't have a track record of head coach success to back him up.

Worryingly the Mail says we've been offering Marcus Smith to other clubs which, if true, is fucking ridiculous and genuinely one of the stupidest things a sports team has ever done.

[Raggs]

Hmm, bit of a surprise even though it's clear we haven't had a coherent approach under Gustard, that if you were ever gonna change horses mid-stream this is the year to do it, and that he doesn't have a track record of head coach success to back him up.

Worryingly the Mail says we've been offering Marcus Smith to other clubs which, if true, is fucking ridiculous and genuinely one of the stupidest things a sports team has ever done.

Dai Young has recently come forward and said that part of the reason he left mid season is because it had been announced that Sarries were being relegated regardless, and that it made sense to do it during a season you cannot relegate in. Likely Quins taking the same approach.

There were calls of player power being influential at quins with previous coaches wasn't there? Or was that just Glaws?

[SaintK]

Hmm, bit of a surprise even though it's clear we haven't had a coherent approach under Gustard, that if you were ever gonna change horses mid-stream this is the year to do it, and that he doesn't have a track record of head coach success to back him up.

Worryingly the Mail says we've been offering Marcus Smith to other clubs which, if true, is fucking ridiculous and genuinely one of the stupidest things a sports team has ever done.

Dai Young has recently come forward and said that part of the reason he left mid season is because it had been announced that Sarries were being relegated regardless, and that it made sense to do it during a season you cannot relegate in. Likely Quins taking the same approach.

There were calls of player power being influential at quins with previous coaches wasn't there? Or was that just Glaws?

Think that may have been the Easter era with Brown and Robshaw to the fore?
Gustard to Wales as defence coach worth a punt?

[JM2K6]

Hmm, bit of a surprise even though it's clear we haven't had a coherent approach under Gustard, that if you were ever gonna change horses mid-stream this is the year to do it, and that he doesn't have a track record of head coach success to back him up.

Worryingly the Mail says we've been offering Marcus Smith to other clubs which, if true, is fucking ridiculous and genuinely one of the stupidest things a sports team has ever done.

Dai Young has recently come forward and said that part of the reason he left mid season is because it had been announced that Sarries were being relegated regardless, and that it made sense to do it during a season you cannot relegate in. Likely Quins taking the same approach.

There were calls of player power being influential at quins with previous coaches wasn't there? Or was that just Glaws?

My memory sucks but it's probably true. It usually is the case when you have a group of senior players who've been part of the club's greatest successes and have had long international careers that they essentially embody the club, and that can be problematic when you have rookie coaches, are in a period of real inconsistency, and those players are no longer producing the goods.

What annoys me the most about this is that some of the most irritating posters on the Quins board were right

[Mahoney]

If Simpson Daniel is available, Probables by a country mile.

Very good!

Someone explain this one to a thickie, it's driving me nuts...

[JM2K6]

If Simpson Daniel is available, Probables by a country mile.

Very good!

Someone explain this one to a thickie, it's driving me nuts...

Is it not just a call-back to the "England 'A' would beat England" days?

[Mahoney]

Oh right, makes sense.

[SaintK]

Not sure what this is about? Must be the only one available!

Ed Robinson, the son of former England and Scotland head coach Andy Robinson, is to join Eddie Jones' coaching team for the Six Nations campaign.
The 27-year-old, who is currently backs coach at Championship side Jersey Reds, will support skills coaching after Jones' assistant Jason Ryles' decision to stay in Australia due to Covid-19.
Jones will miss part of this month's training camp, isolating after forwards coach Matt Proudfoot tested positive.
"Ed's a talented coach," said Jones.
"We're looking forward to welcoming Ed to our coaching staff for the tournament and we'd like to thank Jersey Reds for their cooperation and support in making it happen.
"He will work to help the players improve.

[sockwithaticket]

Not sure what this is about? Must be the only one available!

Ed Robinson, the son of former England and Scotland head coach Andy Robinson, is to join Eddie Jones' coaching team for the Six Nations campaign.
The 27-year-old, who is currently backs coach at Championship side Jersey Reds, will support skills coaching after Jones' assistant Jason Ryles' decision to stay in Australia due to Covid-19.
Jones will miss part of this month's training camp, isolating after forwards coach Matt Proudfoot tested positive.
"Ed's a talented coach," said Jones.
"We're looking forward to welcoming Ed to our coaching staff for the tournament and we'd like to thank Jersey Reds for their cooperation and support in making it happen.
"He will work to help the players improve.

That's... certainly a novel move. Here's hoping he hasn't picked up too much from his dad.

Jersey consistently punch above there weight as far as I'm aware, so it might be a reasonable enough stop gap appointment.

[Kawazaki]

Not sure what this is about? Must be the only one available!

Ed Robinson, the son of former England and Scotland head coach Andy Robinson, is to join Eddie Jones' coaching team for the Six Nations campaign.
The 27-year-old, who is currently backs coach at Championship side Jersey Reds, will support skills coaching after Jones' assistant Jason Ryles' decision to stay in Australia due to Covid-19.
Jones will miss part of this month's training camp, isolating after forwards coach Matt Proudfoot tested positive.
"Ed's a talented coach," said Jones.
"We're looking forward to welcoming Ed to our coaching staff for the tournament and we'd like to thank Jersey Reds for their cooperation and support in making it happen.
"He will work to help the players improve.

Possibly he had to pick a Championship coach as the Premiership clubs wouldn't allow England to borrow one of theirs to use.

[Hal Jordan]

Very good!

Someone explain this one to a thickie, it's driving me nuts...

Is it not just a call-back to the "England 'A' would beat England" days?

Specifically the glory days of the late 2000s.

[Raggs]

Prem coaches are too busy, foreign coaches won't be willing to come over for a short term appointment. Pick a good guy from the champ to give more experience.

[Paddington Bear]

Very surprised at how poor a coach Gustard has turned out to be. Personal issues or not it was clear Sarries thought he had potential.

As has been pointed out though, no one likes a rat and doubt that door is open to him anymore...

[sockwithaticket]

Very surprised at how poor a coach Gustard has turned out to be. Personal issues or not it was clear Sarries thought he had potential.

As has been pointed out though, no one likes a rat and doubt that door is open to him anymore...

I think saying he's been poor is a bit harsh; Quins haven't got markedly better, though there is a definite improvement from the Kingston era, but nor have they declined particularly.

The Quins job as I see it is taking charge of:
- a middling squad with some big senior player voices
- a team that's long been mid-table and prone to inconsistency
- a young group of coaches, some of whom are fairly recent ex-players

He might have done better slotting into a set up where one or two of those factors were absent. It may also be that a head role is not in his skillset and he'd be best set reverting back to being a defence specialist.

[SaintK]

Prem coaches are too busy, foreign coaches won't be willing to come over for a short term appointment. Pick a good guy from the champ to give more experience.

Hmm, interesting! Maybe there are a couple of coaches that could/would do it. Not sure Ben Ward would go anywhere as Ealing are on a mission and we all saw what happened to Alex Codling when he went to Quins. Perhaps Harvey Biljon could make the step from Jersey where he does an excellent job with very limited resources. Can't think of any others to be honest

[JM2K6]

Prem coaches are too busy, foreign coaches won't be willing to come over for a short term appointment. Pick a good guy from the champ to give more experience.

Hmm, interesting! Maybe there are a couple of coaches that could/would do it. Not sure Ben Ward would go anywhere as Ealing are on a mission and we all saw what happened to Alex Codling when he went to Quins. Perhaps Harvey Biljon could make the step from Jersey where he does an excellent job with very limited resources. Can't think of any others to be honest

Raggs is talking about the Jersey guy joining England, not Quins.

Also Alex Codling is a serial quitter of jobs, so I'm not sure Quins had much to do with anything there. Seems to be a really weird guy.

[JM2K6]

Very surprised at how poor a coach Gustard has turned out to be. Personal issues or not it was clear Sarries thought he had potential.

As has been pointed out though, no one likes a rat and doubt that door is open to him anymore...

I think saying he's been poor is a bit harsh; Quins haven't got markedly better, though there is a definite improvement from the Kingston era, but nor have they declined particularly.

The Quins job as I see it is taking charge of:
- a middling squad with some big senior player voices
- a team that's long been mid-table and prone to inconsistency
- a young group of coaches, some of whom are fairly recent ex-players

He might have done better slotting into a set up where one or two of those factors were absent. It may also be that a head role is not in his skillset and he'd be best set reverting back to being a defence specialist.

Nah, he's been poor. Our defence has at times been fucking woeful and he's a defence coach. Completely agree with the structural problems with the squad, but that doesn't excuse what we've been seeing at times under Gustard.

[sockwithaticket]

Very surprised at how poor a coach Gustard has turned out to be. Personal issues or not it was clear Sarries thought he had potential.

As has been pointed out though, no one likes a rat and doubt that door is open to him anymore...

I think saying he's been poor is a bit harsh; Quins haven't got markedly better, though there is a definite improvement from the Kingston era, but nor have they declined particularly.

The Quins job as I see it is taking charge of:
- a middling squad with some big senior player voices
- a team that's long been mid-table and prone to inconsistency
- a young group of coaches, some of whom are fairly recent ex-players

He might have done better slotting into a set up where one or two of those factors were absent. It may also be that a head role is not in his skillset and he'd be best set reverting back to being a defence specialist.

Nah, he's been poor. Our defence has at times been fucking woeful and he's a defence coach. Completely agree with the structural problems with the squad, but that doesn't excuse what we've been seeing at times under Gustard.

Fair enough, you'll be watching them more often and with a greater deal of scrutiny than me.

[JM2K6]

I think saying he's been poor is a bit harsh; Quins haven't got markedly better, though there is a definite improvement from the Kingston era, but nor have they declined particularly.

The Quins job as I see it is taking charge of:
- a middling squad with some big senior player voices
- a team that's long been mid-table and prone to inconsistency
- a young group of coaches, some of whom are fairly recent ex-players

He might have done better slotting into a set up where one or two of those factors were absent. It may also be that a head role is not in his skillset and he'd be best set reverting back to being a defence specialist.

Nah, he's been poor. Our defence has at times been fucking woeful and he's a defence coach. Completely agree with the structural problems with the squad, but that doesn't excuse what we've been seeing at times under Gustard.

Fair enough, you'll be watching them more often and with a greater deal of scrutiny than me.

Defence (and effort) are areas where the quality of the players doesn't actually matter too much, and Quins' squad isn't so bad as to be completely uncompetitive. We've had some really good performances at times so it can be done, but just too often they look disorganised, not particularly enthusiastic, and a bit clueless. These are all coaching / man-management issues. You could explain a few players by pointing to their attitude but it's very unlikely the entire squad is like that, particularly when some of them are good internationals.

[sockwithaticket]

Nah, he's been poor. Our defence has at times been fucking woeful and he's a defence coach. Completely agree with the structural problems with the squad, but that doesn't excuse what we've been seeing at times under Gustard.

Fair enough, you'll be watching them more often and with a greater deal of scrutiny than me.

Defence (and effort) are areas where the quality of the players doesn't actually matter too much, and Quins' squad isn't so bad as to be completely uncompetitive. We've had some really good performances at times so it can be done, but just too often they look disorganised, not particularly enthusiastic, and a bit clueless. These are all coaching / man-management issues. You could explain a few players by pointing to their attitude but it's very unlikely the entire squad is like that, particularly when some of them are good internationals.

Did you hear Ashton on the BBC podcast after the Racing game? He did seem to be questioning the effort and will of his team mates. The word embarassing got chucked around a couple of times. I have wondered if there's a bit of a mentality that's settled in that it's enough to just go out and play each week rather than really drive for success. Obviously being on that podcast we hear from Care after pretty much every loss and he says all the right things about being disappointed and learning lessons, but the delivery seems pretty perfunctory and you can't help but wonder if some are just going through the motions.

[JM2K6]

Fair enough, you'll be watching them more often and with a greater deal of scrutiny than me.

Defence (and effort) are areas where the quality of the players doesn't actually matter too much, and Quins' squad isn't so bad as to be completely uncompetitive. We've had some really good performances at times so it can be done, but just too often they look disorganised, not particularly enthusiastic, and a bit clueless. These are all coaching / man-management issues. You could explain a few players by pointing to their attitude but it's very unlikely the entire squad is like that, particularly when some of them are good internationals.

Did you hear Ashton on the BBC podcast after the Racing game? He did seem to be questioning the effort and will of his team mates. The word embarassing got chucked around a couple of times. I have wondered if there's a bit of a mentality that's settled in that it's enough to just go out and play each week rather than really drive for success. Obviously being on that podcast we hear from Care after pretty much every loss and he says all the right things about being disappointed and learning lessons, but the delivery seems pretty perfunctory and you can't help but wonder if some are just going through the motions.

I haven't listened to it myself but it provoked a lot of 'discussion' on the Quins forum - 50% people agreeing, 50% using it as a reason to slag Ashton off.

[sockwithaticket]

Defence (and effort) are areas where the quality of the players doesn't actually matter too much, and Quins' squad isn't so bad as to be completely uncompetitive. We've had some really good performances at times so it can be done, but just too often they look disorganised, not particularly enthusiastic, and a bit clueless. These are all coaching / man-management issues. You could explain a few players by pointing to their attitude but it's very unlikely the entire squad is like that, particularly when some of them are good internationals.

Did you hear Ashton on the BBC podcast after the Racing game? He did seem to be questioning the effort and will of his team mates. The word embarassing got chucked around a couple of times. I have wondered if there's a bit of a mentality that's settled in that it's enough to just go out and play each week rather than really drive for success. Obviously being on that podcast we hear from Care after pretty much every loss and he says all the right things about being disappointed and learning lessons, but the delivery seems pretty perfunctory and you can't help but wonder if some are just going through the motions.

I haven't listened to it myself but it provoked a lot of 'discussion' on the Quins forum - 50% people agreeing, 50% using it as a reason to slag Ashton off.

That's not surprising. He didn't say anything unreasonable, but given who he is and how little he's done for the club so far he's probably not the right person to be speaking publicly in that way.

[SaintK]

Prem coaches are too busy, foreign coaches won't be willing to come over for a short term appointment. Pick a good guy from the champ to give more experience.

Hmm, interesting! Maybe there are a couple of coaches that could/would do it. Not sure Ben Ward would go anywhere as Ealing are on a mission and we all saw what happened to Alex Codling when he went to Quins. Perhaps Harvey Biljon could make the step from Jersey where he does an excellent job with very limited resources. Can't think of any others to be honest

Raggs is talking about the Jersey guy joining England, not Quins.

Also Alex Codling is a serial quitter of jobs, so I'm not sure Quins had much to do with anything there. Seems to be a really weird guy.

Ah, Andy Robinson's youngest son.
Don't know about the Codling serial quitter thing, but I think you'll find he quit Quins because of Gustard's penchant for dressing down and belittling his staff in front of the players and other coaching staff. That is according to someone who regularly attended Quins training sessions. And of course the main reason Gustard left Quins yesterday by "mutual agreement"

[JM2K6]

Hmm, interesting! Maybe there are a couple of coaches that could/would do it. Not sure Ben Ward would go anywhere as Ealing are on a mission and we all saw what happened to Alex Codling when he went to Quins. Perhaps Harvey Biljon could make the step from Jersey where he does an excellent job with very limited resources. Can't think of any others to be honest

Raggs is talking about the Jersey guy joining England, not Quins.

Also Alex Codling is a serial quitter of jobs, so I'm not sure Quins had much to do with anything there. Seems to be a really weird guy.

Ah, Andy Robinson's youngest son.
Don't know about the Codling serial quitter thing, but I think you'll find he quit Quins because of Gustard's penchant for dressing down and belittling his staff in front of the players and other coaching staff. That is according to someone who regularly attended Quins training sessions. And of course the main reason Gustard left Quins yesterday by "mutual agreement"

Yes, you posted that already. Codling left and rejoined Ealing. Then quit them again. He's done stuff like that before.

Does your source say that's why Codling left or are you adding that yourself? I can certainly see the attitude being part of why Sean Long left, especially as he expressed frustration about having his ideas shot down by Gustard, but Codling's career is a history of leaving places before time.

[SaintK]

Raggs is talking about the Jersey guy joining England, not Quins.

Also Alex Codling is a serial quitter of jobs, so I'm not sure Quins had much to do with anything there. Seems to be a really weird guy.

Ah, Andy Robinson's youngest son.
Don't know about the Codling serial quitter thing, but I think you'll find he quit Quins because of Gustard's penchant for dressing down and belittling his staff in front of the players and other coaching staff. That is according to someone who regularly attended Quins training sessions. And of course the main reason Gustard left Quins yesterday by "mutual agreement"

Yes, you posted that already. Codling left and rejoined Ealing. Then quit them again. He's done stuff like that before.

Does your source say that's why Codling left or are you adding that yourself? I can certainly see the attitude being part of why Sean Long left, especially as he expressed frustration about having his ideas shot down by Gustard, but Codling's career is a history of leaving places before time.

Why on earth would I add that myself? I mentioned it it because that's what I was told. If you think Codling left because he's a "serial quitter" that's entirely up to you.

[JM2K6]

Ah, Andy Robinson's youngest son.
Don't know about the Codling serial quitter thing, but I think you'll find he quit Quins because of Gustard's penchant for dressing down and belittling his staff in front of the players and other coaching staff. That is according to someone who regularly attended Quins training sessions. And of course the main reason Gustard left Quins yesterday by "mutual agreement"

Yes, you posted that already. Codling left and rejoined Ealing. Then quit them again. He's done stuff like that before.

Does your source say that's why Codling left or are you adding that yourself? I can certainly see the attitude being part of why Sean Long left, especially as he expressed frustration about having his ideas shot down by Gustard, but Codling's career is a history of leaving places before time.

Why on earth would I add that myself? I mentioned it it because that's what I was told. If you think Codling left because he's a "serial quitter" that's entirely up to you.

Sorry, to rephrase: you said in a previous post that you knew someone who regularly attended Quins training sessions, and they reported on Gustard's actions. Then this time you said the same, only adding that's why Codling quit. I was merely asking if you were using your knowledge to assume (it's a reasonable assumption, after all), or if that had been something else you were told. That's all. It wasn't intended to be hostile or anything.

"Look what happened to Codling when he went to Quins" just made my raise my eyebrows a little bit, because, well, look what happened to Codling when he went to <insert list of clubs he bailed on, including Ealing after rejoining them from Quins!>. If your source specifically states that why Codling left then fair enough! I suspect he wouldn't have lasted long regardless.

[SaintK]

Yes, you posted that already. Codling left and rejoined Ealing. Then quit them again. He's done stuff like that before.

Does your source say that's why Codling left or are you adding that yourself? I can certainly see the attitude being part of why Sean Long left, especially as he expressed frustration about having his ideas shot down by Gustard, but Codling's career is a history of leaving places before time.

Why on earth would I add that myself? I mentioned it it because that's what I was told. If you think Codling left because he's a "serial quitter" that's entirely up to you.

Sorry, to rephrase: you said in a previous post that you knew someone who regularly attended Quins training sessions, and they reported on Gustard's actions. Then this time you said the same, only adding that's why Codling quit. I was merely asking if you were using your knowledge to assume (it's a reasonable assumption, after all), or if that had been something else you were told. That's all. It wasn't intended to be hostile or anything.

"Look what happened to Codling when he went to Quins" just made my raise my eyebrows a little bit, because, well, look what happened to Codling when he went to <insert list of clubs he bailed on, including Ealing after rejoining them from Quins!>. If your source specifically states that why Codling left then fair enough! I suspect he wouldn't have lasted long regardless.

Ahh, I see, fair call. I was indeed reporting what I was told as to why Codling quit Quins.

[JM2K6]

Cheers, it's good info!

[Yr Alban]

Are we really so desperate for an advantage (over Italy!) that we give out caps to players who were only ever likely to be fringe at the most given he depth at the position?

Fair point. I'm more surprised that EJ's not gone for Cam Redpath who looks like he's being selected for the Scottish squad having played for England through the age groups. Very impressive for Bath this season

Sorry to intrude lads. I saw two people post this. Wanted to point out that Redpath actually started in the Scotland age groups at U16 and U18 level before switching to England.

Only Cam knows what his original intentions were. I don’t recall seeing him say he felt no affinity for Scotland - every time I’ve seen him quoted he was quite careful not to say anything definitive in either direction. I suspect he was genuinely conflicted, and he probably would have quite happily turned out for England if he’d made the tour a couple of years ago. I do wonder who he supported as a kid though...

[JM2K6]

Are we really so desperate for an advantage (over Italy!) that we give out caps to players who were only ever likely to be fringe at the most given he depth at the position?

Fair point. I'm more surprised that EJ's not gone for Cam Redpath who looks like he's being selected for the Scottish squad having played for England through the age groups. Very impressive for Bath this season

Sorry to intrude lads. I saw two people post this. Wanted to point out that Redpath actually started in the Scotland age groups at U16 and U18 level before switching to England.

Only Cam knows what his original intentions were. I don’t recall seeing him say he felt no affinity for Scotland - every time I’ve seen him quoted he was quite careful not to say anything definitive in either direction. I suspect he was genuinely conflicted, and he probably would have quite happily turned out for England if he’d made the tour a couple of years ago. I do wonder who he supported as a kid though...

Think he was England at U18 as well.

Have to say I'm a little disappointed to lose someone who English rugby's invested a decent amount in, but it was always a risk.

[Yr Alban]

Fair point. I'm more surprised that EJ's not gone for Cam Redpath who looks like he's being selected for the Scottish squad having played for England through the age groups. Very impressive for Bath this season

Sorry to intrude lads. I saw two people post this. Wanted to point out that Redpath actually started in the Scotland age groups at U16 and U18 level before switching to England.

Only Cam knows what his original intentions were. I don’t recall seeing him say he felt no affinity for Scotland - every time I’ve seen him quoted he was quite careful not to say anything definitive in either direction. I suspect he was genuinely conflicted, and he probably would have quite happily turned out for England if he’d made the tour a couple of years ago. I do wonder who he supported as a kid though...

Think he was England at U18 as well.

Have to say I'm a little disappointed to lose someone who English rugby's invested a decent amount in, but it was always a risk.

It’s quite possible - I’ve just read two articles that said contradictory things.

[JM2K6]

Sorry to intrude lads. I saw two people post this. Wanted to point out that Redpath actually started in the Scotland age groups at U16 and U18 level before switching to England.

Only Cam knows what his original intentions were. I don’t recall seeing him say he felt no affinity for Scotland - every time I’ve seen him quoted he was quite careful not to say anything definitive in either direction. I suspect he was genuinely conflicted, and he probably would have quite happily turned out for England if he’d made the tour a couple of years ago. I do wonder who he supported as a kid though...

Think he was England at U18 as well.

Have to say I'm a little disappointed to lose someone who English rugby's invested a decent amount in, but it was always a risk.

It’s quite possible - I’ve just read two articles that said contradictory things.

I think he somehow did both at U18.

[Raggs]

Think he was England at U18 as well.

Have to say I'm a little disappointed to lose someone who English rugby's invested a decent amount in, but it was always a risk.

It’s quite possible - I’ve just read two articles that said contradictory things.

I think he somehow did both at U18.

Six nations vs summer tour?

[Margin__Walker]

He was playing England U18 a year young. Think he may also have featured for Scotland U18 at 16. Good luck to him

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/feature ... 8s-centre/

[Margin__Walker]

Mail reckon Randall is in the 6N squad, which will be refreshing

[SaintK]

Think he was England at U18 as well.

Have to say I'm a little disappointed to lose someone who English rugby's invested a decent amount in, but it was always a risk.

It’s quite possible - I’ve just read two articles that said contradictory things.

I think he somehow did both at U18.

Cameroon Boon, Saracen's 20 year old 6'10" lock who came through my club's mini/junior section played for both Ireland and England U18's so it ios obviously possible

[SaintK]

Things not running to smoothly for Sarries

Saracens forfeit Trailfinders Challenge Cup match against Doncaster with 34 players unavailable. Saracens lost 27-26 to Ealing in their first match of the Trailfinders Challenge Cup last weekend; Doncaster Knights awarded four points and Saracens two as Mark McCall's men forfeit Saturday's game at Castle Park
Following their weekly PCR Covid-19 testing programme, Saracens reported that two Academy players had returned positive results, with a further 16 members of the squad forced to isolate due to contact tracing.
Saracens said they are therefore without 34 players for the match at Castle Park on Saturday through a combination of isolation, injury and suspension, and subsequently cannot field a side.

[Hal Jordan]

Mail reckon Randall is in the 6N squad, which will be refreshing

The latest to pick up a smattering of caps consisting of fifteen minutes in matches we're in no danger of losing when Jones decides Youngs has done enough damage?