So, coronavirus...

[tc27]

Looks like it was full steam ahead on Saturday - when all nations report it should be just under 500k

[Saint]

Looks like it was full steam ahead on Saturday - when all nations report it should be just under 500k

All reported now on the covid dashboard. 491k doses across the whole UK

[Rinkals]

TBF to OS, I don't think he's intrinsically dishonest like Bimbo.

I think he's just a little bit dim.

pot calling the kettle black

Fair enough.

I'm not English, which obviously counts against me.

[Slick]

And yet another

Covid: Hackney railway arch rave attended by '300 people'

Police have issued more than £15,000 in fines after 300 people attended an illegal rave in a railway arch.

Officers raided an unlicensed music event in Nursery Road, Hackney, at 01.30 GMT on Sunday.

Many people fled the scene, while organisers padlocked the doors from the inside to stop officers getting in, police said.

No arrest were reported, but 78 fines of up to £200 for breaching lockdown restrictions were issued.

A dog unit and helicopter were deployed to the scene, with police saying they made numerous attempts to contact the organisers.

time to add another zero to the fine; as they clearly aren't big enough to stop these being organized.

It’s the idiocy of not realising that their actions are making it worse for themselves

[fishfoodie]

And yet another

time to add another zero to the fine; as they clearly aren't big enough to stop these being organized.

It’s the idiocy of not realising that their actions are making it worse for themselves

It's very hard to stop people being idiots; especially when there are a few hundred of them; but what you can do is make an example of those seeking to profiteer off the backs of these idiots; & cause more work for the NHS.

[Marylandolorian]

1,429 per million is hardly carnage(its .15%) there have been worse years in the last 10 esp. if you accept that UK is taking every opportunity to put Covid 19 on the death certificate.

You're going to need to back that statement up with some actual facts.

It’s from the Retired Middle Class Morons with Money Facebook page.

How can you compare places like San Marino or Gibraltar with a pop: 30k and the UK ? Makes you feel good?

Between this thread and the Brexit, PCphil- Openside- Bimbox are making an awesome trio.

[Un Pilier]

You're going to need to back that statement up with some actual facts.

It’s from the Retired Middle Class Morons with Money Facebook page.

How can you compare places like San Marino or Gibraltar with a pop: 30k and the UK ? Makes you feel good?

Between this thread and the Brexit, PCphil- Openside- Bimbox are making an awesome trio.

This is all getting a bit ad hominem isn’t it guys? Play the ball ffs.

[Bimbowomxn]

You're going to need to back that statement up with some actual facts.

It’s from the Retired Middle Class Morons with Money Facebook page.

How can you compare places like San Marino or Gibraltar with a pop: 30k and the UK ? Makes you feel good?

Between this thread and the Brexit, PCphil- Openside- Bimbox are making an awesome trio.

Well we’ve had to directly compare to New Zealand for 9 months.

[Sandstorm]

[Lobby]

A group of volunteers has recently launched a new website devoted to countering the claims of lockdown and covid sceptics:

https://www.covidfaq.co/

AS well as demolishing the claims made by sceptics (eg false positive, no excess deaths, masks don't work, Barrington declaration etc), they are also documenting the shifting claims made by the most prominent sceptics, such as Toby Young and other journalists, as well as Sunetra Gupta.

Could be a useful reference point when dealing with Bimbot's shifting goalposts (personally, I have him on ignore).

[Saint]

Anopther 32 mass vax centres opening across the UK today. Given that the doses being delivered to the UK will be lower this week, now we see just how much build up of stock there's been

[Insane_Homer]

[Torquemada 1420]

This is interesting
https://www.rt.com/news/513443-german-c ... itutional/

According to the court, the government lacked sufficient legal grounds to impose the restrictions since there was no “epidemic situation of national importance” at that time

The lockdown imposed in Thuringia represented “the most comprehensive and far-reaching restrictions on fundamental rights in the history of the Federal Republic,” the court said while calling the measures an attack on the “foundations of our society” that was “disproportionate.”

The bit in red is probably in question for anyone who was around in the 30s and 40s but the underlined bit has serious merit.

[tc27]

Big drop from Saturday but a Sunday with shitty weather may explain why to an extent.

Hopefully new vaccination centres coming online this week should see some days breaching 500k.

[JM2K6]

This is interesting
https://www.rt.com/news/513443-german-c ... itutional/

According to the court, the government lacked sufficient legal grounds to impose the restrictions since there was no “epidemic situation of national importance” at that time

The lockdown imposed in Thuringia represented “the most comprehensive and far-reaching restrictions on fundamental rights in the history of the Federal Republic,” the court said while calling the measures an attack on the “foundations of our society” that was “disproportionate.”

The bit in red is probably in question for anyone who was around in the 30s and 40s but the underlined bit has serious merit.

The Federal Republic only started in 1949, so probably not.

[Saint]

Moderna reporting that lab tests show their vaccine works against both Kent and SA strains. Needs further monitoring in real world patients, but likely that Pfizer and AZ will report the same

[tc27]

Moderna reporting that lab tests show their vaccine works against both Kent and SA strains. Needs further monitoring in real world patients, but likely that Pfizer and AZ will report the same

My layman understanding is all the vaccines use the same vector (training the immune system to attack the same protein spike) so if one works then all should.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Moderna reporting that lab tests show their vaccine works against both Kent and SA strains. Needs further monitoring in real world patients, but likely that Pfizer and AZ will report the same

Concerns about the duration of protection against SA variant.

From the article :

"may suggest a potential risk of earlier waning of immunity to the new B.1.351 strains"

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-re ... ty-against

[Saint]

Moderna reporting that lab tests show their vaccine works against both Kent and SA strains. Needs further monitoring in real world patients, but likely that Pfizer and AZ will report the same

My layman understanding is all the vaccines use the same vector (training the immune system to attack the same protein spike) so if one works then all should.

Broadly speaking that's right. Effectively they all generating antibodies that to all intents and purposes are identical; however we've never really generated so many vaccines at the same time using different platforms, so there's a lot of "we think this is how it works, but....." going on. Effectively they're proving a lot of their understanding of how the human body, and specifically the immune system, works

[Saint]

Moderna reporting that lab tests show their vaccine works against both Kent and SA strains. Needs further monitoring in real world patients, but likely that Pfizer and AZ will report the same

Concerns about the duration of protection against SA variant.

From the article :

"may suggest a potential risk of earlier waning of immunity to the new B.1.351 strains"

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-re ... ty-against

"May suggest" is correct. It also may not be the case.

As with everything it;s something to watch out for, and if it works in the short term then that might giuve breathing room for a tweaked version to be developed to mopre fully address this.

You only have to go back 6 months and we were thinking a vaccine that last 6 months andgave 60% immunity might be enough to buys time - now we're thinking in terms of something that's 90-95% effective and likely lasts more than 12 months as the barebones minimum standard.

[Torquemada 1420]

This is interesting
https://www.rt.com/news/513443-german-c ... itutional/

According to the court, the government lacked sufficient legal grounds to impose the restrictions since there was no “epidemic situation of national importance” at that time

The lockdown imposed in Thuringia represented “the most comprehensive and far-reaching restrictions on fundamental rights in the history of the Federal Republic,” the court said while calling the measures an attack on the “foundations of our society” that was “disproportionate.”

The bit in red is probably in question for anyone who was around in the 30s and 40s but the underlined bit has serious merit.

The Federal Republic only started in 1949, so probably not.

Moot. The first Germany as a recognised nation state was really a federation hence Bundesrat (fed council). If you mean strictly in the title name of the nation state, they yeah, whatever!

[JM2K6]

This is interesting
https://www.rt.com/news/513443-german-c ... itutional/




The bit in red is probably in question for anyone who was around in the 30s and 40s but the underlined bit has serious merit.

The Federal Republic only started in 1949, so probably not.

Moot. The first Germany as a recognised nation state was really a federation hence Bundesrat (fed council). If you mean strictly in the title name of the nation state, they yeah, whatever!

Well, no. The Federal Republic is a thing that grew out of the post-war division of Germany, referring to West Germany (at the time) and unified Germany post-1990. Whether the first Germany was really a federation or not is the moot point, because anyone talking about The Federal Republic is going to be talking about the thing that was created in 1949 and continues to exist today, rather than something else that was a federation but not The Federal Republic (like the Weimar Republic, for example). Besides, it would make no sense for them to be referring to wartime + pre-war times.

So the second point in your post, really. Because it's what they'll be talking about!

[Fangle]

Merck have given up on their development of a vaccine. According to USA Today.

[tc27]

EU commission getting hissy with AZ about cuts to vaccine deliveries.

[Lobby]

EU commission getting hissy with AZ about cuts to vaccine deliveries.

Worth remembering that the EU hasn’t yet approved the AZ vaccine yet, so even if they get their 31 million doses, they can’t start using them until the EMA gets round to approving it.

[fishfoodie]

Worth remembering that the EU hasn’t yet approved the AZ vaccine yet, so even if they get their 31 million doses, they can’t start using them until the EMA gets round to approving it.

Not really. It's down to what AZ agreed to in the contract.

If the EU chooses to use the vaccine vials as Christmas decorations, it's nothing to do with AZ. They agreed to supply stream; & they need to either meet that, or explain why they can't.

[Lobby]

Worth remembering that the EU hasn’t yet approved the AZ vaccine yet, so even if they get their 31 million doses, they can’t start using them until the EMA gets round to approving it.

Not really. It's down to what AZ agreed to in the contract.

If the EU chooses to use the vaccine vials as Christmas decorations, it's nothing to do with AZ. They agreed to supply stream; & they need to either meet that, or explain why they can't.

As with Pfizer, AZ are having production problems. In this case the problems are mainly to do with production problems at a vaccine factory in Belgium run by its partner Novasep, which is possibly why it is the supply of vaccines for the EU which are most affected.

[Saint]

Merck have given up on their development of a vaccine. According to USA Today.

They were very late to even start development. By the time they eventually had a marketable vaccine there will be so much production of alternatives that they wouldn't be able to even cover costs

[Saint]

Worth remembering that the EU hasn’t yet approved the AZ vaccine yet, so even if they get their 31 million doses, they can’t start using them until the EMA gets round to approving it.

Not really. It's down to what AZ agreed to in the contract.

If the EU chooses to use the vaccine vials as Christmas decorations, it's nothing to do with AZ. They agreed to supply stream; & they need to either meet that, or explain why they can't.

As with Pfizer, AZ are having production problems. In this case the problems are mainly to do with production problems at a vaccine factory in Belgium run by its partner Novasep, which is possibly why it is the supply of vaccines for the EU which are most affected.

AZ UK supply chain is limited enough that it can't meet UK requirements.

Everywhere globally is running into all sorts of challenges. In Brazil they've run out of needles and are running short on syringes

[fishfoodie]

Not really. It's down to what AZ agreed to in the contract.

If the EU chooses to use the vaccine vials as Christmas decorations, it's nothing to do with AZ. They agreed to supply stream; & they need to either meet that, or explain why they can't.

As with Pfizer, AZ are having production problems. In this case the problems are mainly to do with production problems at a vaccine factory in Belgium run by its partner Novasep, which is possibly why it is the supply of vaccines for the EU which are most affected.

AZ UK supply chain is limited enough that it can't meet UK requirements.

Everywhere globally is running into all sorts of challenges. In Brazil they've run out of needles and are running short on syringes

That being the case; they would just need to demonstrate to the EU, that they are scaling down everyone's orders proportionally; & will scale them back up again, as the supply problems ease.

[tc27]

Worth remembering that the EU hasn’t yet approved the AZ vaccine yet, so even if they get their 31 million doses, they can’t start using them until the EMA gets round to approving it.

Not really. It's down to what AZ agreed to in the contract.

If the EU chooses to use the vaccine vials as Christmas decorations, it's nothing to do with AZ. They agreed to supply stream; & they need to either meet that, or explain why they can't.

Presumably they have a contract with various clauses and exceptions. They will also understandably fulfill orders from those who placed them sooner and paid more.

Regardless - it looks like the issue is with the site in Belgium

Not really. It's down to what AZ agreed to in the contract.

If the EU chooses to use the vaccine vials as Christmas decorations, it's nothing to do with AZ. They agreed to supply stream; & they need to either meet that, or explain why they can't.

As with Pfizer, AZ are having production problems. In this case the problems are mainly to do with production problems at a vaccine factory in Belgium run by its partner Novasep, which is possibly why it is the supply of vaccines for the EU which are most affected.

AZ UK supply chain is limited enough that it can't meet UK requirements.

Everywhere globally is running into all sorts of challenges. In Brazil they've run out of needles and are running short on syringes

Any medium or bigger sized nation is going to need its own vaccine production hub as a strategic asset going forward.

[tc27]

As with Pfizer, AZ are having production problems. In this case the problems are mainly to do with production problems at a vaccine factory in Belgium run by its partner Novasep, which is possibly why it is the supply of vaccines for the EU which are most affected.

AZ UK supply chain is limited enough that it can't meet UK requirements.

Everywhere globally is running into all sorts of challenges. In Brazil they've run out of needles and are running short on syringes

That being the case; they would just need to demonstrate to the EU, that they are scaling down everyone's orders proportionally; & will scale them back up again, as the supply problems ease.

Unless its specified in their contract that they have to do this then I would disagree - particularly if the problem is with specific vaccine production sites.

[Saint]

AZ UK supply chain is limited enough that it can't meet UK requirements.

Everywhere globally is running into all sorts of challenges. In Brazil they've run out of needles and are running short on syringes

That being the case; they would just need to demonstrate to the EU, that they are scaling down everyone's orders proportionally; & will scale them back up again, as the supply problems ease.

Unless its specified in their contract that they have to do this then I would disagree - particularly if the problem is with specific vaccine production sites.

AZ was supposed to have 40 million doses ready in the UK by Jan 1st. The EU has a lot of scaling back to do before it meets the level of UK undersupply

Additionally the EU would have a lot of explaining to do if it started taking delivery from the UK, where it is approved and in use, so that it could warehouse it on the off chance that it will get round to approving it

[Lobby]

That being the case; they would just need to demonstrate to the EU, that they are scaling down everyone's orders proportionally; & will scale them back up again, as the supply problems ease.

Unless its specified in their contract that they have to do this then I would disagree - particularly if the problem is with specific vaccine production sites.

AZ was supposed to have 40 million doses ready in the UK by Jan 1st. The EU has a lot of scaling back to do before it meets the level of UK undersupply

Additionally the EU would have a lot of explaining to do if it started taking delivery from the UK, where it is approved and in use, so that it could warehouse it on the off chance that it will get round to approving it

I suspect the EU are making a fuss about this to distract from their disastrous vaccine procurement so far, and to assuage the anger of member states.

[tc27]

A German newspaper is claiming that the AZ vaccine is only 8% effective in over 65s. This claim is not sourced however.

Sincerly hope this is wrong

[Saint]

A German newspaper is claiming that the AZ vaccine is only 8% effective in over 65s. This claim is not sourced however.

Sincerly hope this is wrong

The AZ trial data suggests otherwise - and has actually been peer reviewed, unlike the other vaccines

[tc27]

A German newspaper is claiming that the AZ vaccine is only 8% effective in over 65s. This claim is not sourced however.

Sincerly hope this is wrong

The AZ trial data suggests otherwise - and has actually been peer reviewed, unlike the other vaccines

Yes the journalists I follow have picked it apart a bit further and it seems more like a hoax and or spitefulness on the part of someone in the German government.

Pretty extraordinary especially in context of the spate the EU is having with AZ>

[Saint]

Hotel quarantining about to be applied for "at risk" countries- SA, Portugal, Brazil. Grant Schaps appears to have talked BoJo down from all countries

[fishfoodie]

Hotel quarantining about to be applied for "at risk" countries- SA, Portugal, Brazil. Grant Schaps appears to have talked BoJo down from all countries

Seems like a decent compromise; (& cogging the Irish Governments notes )

They could also couple it with doing a sample of testing for those in quarantine; to confirm there isn't any systematic cheating of pre-flight tests, & that these tests are reliable. They could also change this sampling based on where the passenger is coming from; & what type their pre-flight test was, etc, etc.

[Saint]

Hotel quarantining about to be applied for "at risk" countries- SA, Portugal, Brazil. Grant Schaps appears to have talked BoJo down from all countries

Seems like a decent compromise; (& cogging the Irish Governments notes )

They could also couple it with doing a sample of testing for those in quarantine; to confirm there isn't any systematic cheating of pre-flight tests, & that these tests are reliable. They could also change this sampling based on where the passenger is coming from; & what type their pre-flight test was, etc, etc.

Most if that is already in the rules. Preflight tests have to be inside 72 hours, have to be PCR, and have to be at UK approved centres that confirm identity on the test certificate.

I'm of 2 minds as to the hotel quarantine. I hadn't realised just how much gpobal NGO charity would be impacted, and if you made the exception just how hard it would be to define the cutoff between.