Aircraft thread

[laurent]

Air nerds - anyone get this one?
I will admit, I never heard of this before I found it !

Absolute minger of an aircraft !

Not as bad as some of Fairey's horror this is a Liore Olivier / SNCASE prototype SE100 supposed to replace the Potez 630.

[mat the expat]

At one point, with a flying career out the window, I was considering Photographic interpretation in the RAF.

I was lucky living in North Wales - I live high up and could look down onto the jets in the valleys below - My high-point was standing with my bike and an brace of F15E's rolling inverted over the ridge and the back seater giving me the thumbs up as they passed over me

Ditto-ish for me. Flying career went West. Now I play with this:

[Yeeb]

Air nerds - anyone get this one?
I will admit, I never heard of this before I found it !

Absolute minger of an aircraft !

Not as bad as some of Fairey's horror this is a Liore Olivier / SNCASE prototype SE100 supposed to replace the Potez 630.

Tres bien
Possibly the least french looking ww2 era aircraft of all time , hideously ugly but had decent performance , armament, and propellers & gunsights. You are going to have to post which Fairey aircraft you mean as I can’t place something as horrible as that, possibly the gannet but that had a specific role and those aircraft often look very odd.

[Torquemada 1420]

You are going to have to post which Fairey aircraft you mean as I can’t place something as horrible as that, possibly the gannet but that had a specific role and those aircraft often look very odd.

I think Blackburn would have a serious shot at taking all 3 podium slots in this comp. Firebrand, Beverley, Roc, Botha...............

[Yeeb]

You are going to have to post which Fairey aircraft you mean as I can’t place something as horrible as that, possibly the gannet but that had a specific role and those aircraft often look very odd.

I think Blackburn would have a serious shot at taking all 3 podium slots in this comp. Firebrand, Beverley, Roc, Botha...............

Don’t know how they survived at the time because every one of their aircraft was dogshit
The US equivalent was Brewster which was basically a scam artist getting money out of the government.

[Yeeb]

There are actually lots of aircraft ‘what-if’ questions from that era.
Why were fw190’s produced more when it was clearly superior to me109
Why didn’t the defiant get forward guns or a variant with no turret
Why didn’t the whirlwind get new engines as it was a lovely plane
Why was the liberator produced more than the b17 when it was worse in every respect bar range
Why wasn’t frank whittle given more help earlier ? BoB would have been easier had we had meteors then !
What if Mitchell’s bomber prototype not got destroyed ?
We was the Herschel Uhu largely ignored as it was decent ?
Why didn’t Germany get a proper 4 engine heavy bomber ? (Or for that matter, ussr or japan)

[Torquemada 1420]

There are actually lots of aircraft ‘what-if’ questions from that era.
Why were fw190’s produced more when it was clearly superior to me109
Why didn’t the defiant get forward guns or a variant with no turret
Why didn’t the whirlwind get new engines as it was a lovely plane
Why was the liberator produced more than the b17 when it was worse in every respect bar range
Why wasn’t frank whittle given more help earlier ? BoB would have been easier had we had meteors then !
What if Mitchell’s bomber prototype not got destroyed ?
We was the Herschel Uhu largely ignored as it was decent ?
Why didn’t Germany get a proper 4 engine heavy bomber ? (Or for that matter, ussr or japan)

I'll try and answer a couple quickly
- Defiant. Awful aircraft but there was an RAF obsession with mid gun turrets at the time. Ironically, this made it suitable as night fighter against bombers.
- I think the Liberator was a production thing. US simply could not retool for an entire switch without hampering desperately needed production: losses of B17s and B24s were huge.
- Whittle. Because the MOD/RAF were conservatively minded morons hence the delays in the bouncing bomb and the non production of Miles 20 or MB5. They hated new tech.
- The Germans did have a proper 4 engine bomber. They just never seemed to recognise it. FW-200.

[Sandstorm]

There are actually lots of aircraft ‘what-if’ questions from that era.
Why were fw190’s produced more when it was clearly superior to me109
Why didn’t the defiant get forward guns or a variant with no turret
Why didn’t the whirlwind get new engines as it was a lovely plane
Why was the liberator produced more than the b17 when it was worse in every respect bar range
Why wasn’t frank whittle given more help earlier ? BoB would have been easier had we had meteors then !
What if Mitchell’s bomber prototype not got destroyed ?
We was the Herschel Uhu largely ignored as it was decent ?
Why didn’t Germany get a proper 4 engine heavy bomber ? (Or for that matter, ussr or japan)

Tory Scum and Idiot Republicans. Same as 2020.

[Yeeb]

There are actually lots of aircraft ‘what-if’ questions from that era.
Why were fw190’s produced more when it was clearly superior to me109
Why didn’t the defiant get forward guns or a variant with no turret
Why didn’t the whirlwind get new engines as it was a lovely plane
Why was the liberator produced more than the b17 when it was worse in every respect bar range
Why wasn’t frank whittle given more help earlier ? BoB would have been easier had we had meteors then !
What if Mitchell’s bomber prototype not got destroyed ?
We was the Herschel Uhu largely ignored as it was decent ?
Why didn’t Germany get a proper 4 engine heavy bomber ? (Or for that matter, ussr or japan)

I'll try and answer a couple quickly
- Defiant. Awful aircraft but there was an RAF obsession with mid gun turrets at the time. Ironically, this made it suitable as night fighter against bombers.
- I think the Liberator was a production thing. US simply could not retool for an entire switch without hampering desperately needed production: losses of B17s and B24s were huge.
- Whittle. Because the MOD/RAF were conservatively minded morons hence the delays in the bouncing bomb and the non production of Miles 20 or MB5. They hated new tech.
- The Germans did have a proper 4 engine bomber. They just never seemed to recognise it. FW-200.

Hmmm I read that the defiant was quite nice to fly and comparable to a hurricane in speed despite lugging the weight around
The fw200 was only in low numbers and used to break apart as it’s spar was too weak, couldn’t handle the loads of lifting 14000lb or bombs like the Lancaster could.

[Calculon]

[
- I think the Liberator was a production thing. US simply could not retool for an entire switch without hampering desperately needed production: losses of B17s and B24s were huge.

The liberators were consideredly faster
could carry a similar payload much further or a larger payload the same distance
had a lower loss per sortie ratio (even when looking at the same theatre)
Served in transport and anti U-boat roles for which the b17 was less suitable
Completely replaced the b17 in the Pacific

[Yeeb]

[
- I think the Liberator was a production thing. US simply could not retool for an entire switch without hampering desperately needed production: losses of B17s and B24s were huge.

The liberators were consideredly faster
could carry a similar payload much further or a larger payload the same distance
had a lower loss per sortie ratio (even when looking at the same theatre)
Served in transport and anti U-boat roles for which the b17 was less suitable
Completely replaced the b17 in the Pacific

The loss ratio was worse for the b24 until 1945, it wasn’t as combat robust / better than the b17.
Once ze Luftwaffe stopped being as effective toward the end, the greater numbers of b24s helped skew the overall stats in its favour , but earlier on in the war, the Doolittle’s etc much preferred the b17 in Europe. B17 also flew higher with its chunkier wing.

Seeing as it was designed years later, it wasn’t as big a step up as say b17 to b29 in performance.

[Calculon]

[
- I think the Liberator was a production thing. US simply could not retool for an entire switch without hampering desperately needed production: losses of B17s and B24s were huge.

The liberators were consideredly faster
could carry a similar payload much further or a larger payload the same distance
had a lower loss per sortie ratio (even when looking at the same theatre)
Served in transport and anti U-boat roles for which the b17 was less suitable
Completely replaced the b17 in the Pacific

The loss ratio was worse for the b24 until 1945, it wasn’t as combat robust / better than the b17.
Once ze Luftwaffe stopped being as effective toward the end, the greater numbers of b24s helped skew the overall stats in its favour , but earlier on in the war, the Doolittle’s etc much preferred the b17 in Europe. B17 also flew higher with its chunkier wing.

Seeing as it was designed years later, it wasn’t as big a step up as say b17 to b29 in performance.

From what I've read the loss ratio was worse during the same period. The b24 was heavier, so arguably more "robust", but that is fairly subjective. Would have though that even though the b17 could fly higher when lightly loaded, under combat loads it flew at the same altitude as the b24

[Yeeb]

The liberators were consideredly faster
could carry a similar payload much further or a larger payload the same distance
had a lower loss per sortie ratio (even when looking at the same theatre)
Served in transport and anti U-boat roles for which the b17 was less suitable
Completely replaced the b17 in the Pacific

The loss ratio was worse for the b24 until 1945, it wasn’t as combat robust / better than the b17.
Once ze Luftwaffe stopped being as effective toward the end, the greater numbers of b24s helped skew the overall stats in its favour , but earlier on in the war, the Doolittle’s etc much preferred the b17 in Europe. B17 also flew higher with its chunkier wing.

Seeing as it was designed years later, it wasn’t as big a step up as say b17 to b29 in performance.

From what I've read the loss ratio was worse during the same period. The b24 was heavier, so arguably more "robust", but that is fairly subjective. Would have though that even though the b17 could fly higher when lightly loaded, under combat loads it flew at the same altitude as the b24

Can’t recall what book it was , but a German fighter pilot said that b17’s were much harder to knock out of the sky for several reasons:
Thicker wings meant they could take more damage before failure ban b24 who could have a shell blow a hole right through it.
Thicker b17 wing allowed for greater height, which one model of fighter (let’s say 109g) really struggles to get the height and any manouverbility with as was near limits & stall. The much later b36 could out turn some fighters at altitude because of its thick wing
And overall in fuselage the b17 was more robust also.

[mat the expat]

Why didn’t the defiant get forward guns or a variant with no turret

Addding the weight of guns+ammo made it a dog

It was very effective as a night-fighter

[Torquemada 1420]

Why didn’t the defiant get forward guns or a variant with no turret

Addding the weight of guns+ammo made it a dog

It was very effective as a night-fighter

See above

[Niegs]

What's the role of the lad in the bubble?

[tc27]

The label says observer. Makes sense in so far as the cockpit has limited FoV.

[Torquemada 1420]

What's the role of the lad in the bubble?

Nav: but agree it was an odd layout.

[mat the expat]

What's the role of the lad in the bubble?

Nav: but agree it was an odd layout.

Reloading the 20mm Oerlikon cannon as well as they were drum fed

Oddly, the beast version of Whispering Death had 2 .50" guns in the left wing and 4 in the right

[RichieRich89]

Some Beaufighters had a rear-facing machine gun for the observer.

[Torquemada 1420]

Some Beaufighters had a rear-facing machine gun for the observer.

The 1/72nd I made as a kid did.

[Phredd]

From the BAe archive shows rear facing machine gun

[mat the expat]

From the BAe archive shows rear facing machine gun

I think it was mainly the European theatre ones - more risk of being jumped

[Yeeb]

What's the role of the lad in the bubble?

Nav: but agree it was an odd layout.

Reloading the 20mm Oerlikon cannon as well as they were drum fed

Oddly, the beast version of Whispering Death had 2 .50" guns in the left wing and 4 in the right

I think the machine guns were .303’s not 50 cals
It’s the most overpowered aircraft on War thunder , it just zaps foes

[Torquemada 1420]

Who has this guy got in his pocket to get away so lightly with this?
https://ukaviation.news/arrogant-pilot- ... -raf-base/

Illegal landing on RAF base without even having a pilot's licence. And in a PC12 FFS.

[GogLais]

Who has this guy got in his pocket to get away so lightly with this?
https://ukaviation.news/arrogant-pilot- ... -raf-base/

Illegal landing on RAF base without even having a pilot's licence. And in a PC12 FFS.

It's astonishing but I guess it's a lot of money by Caernarfon standards. I grew up within a stone's throw of Valley - Vampires, Gnats and Vickers Varsities.

[Torquemada 1420]

It's astonishing but I guess it's a lot of money by Caernarfon standards. I grew up within a stone's throw of Valley - Vampires, Gnats and Vickers Varsities.

I know this is a massive long shot given the commonality of name, but did you know a petite goth girl, Tracey Thomas?

[Sandstorm]

Who has this guy got in his pocket to get away so lightly with this?
https://ukaviation.news/arrogant-pilot- ... -raf-base/

Illegal landing on RAF base without even having a pilot's licence. And in a PC12 FFS.

Pussy Government’s fault again. Should have confiscated and crushed his plane.

[GogLais]

It's astonishing but I guess it's a lot of money by Caernarfon standards. I grew up within a stone's throw of Valley - Vampires, Gnats and Vickers Varsities.

I know this is a massive long shot given the commonality of name, but did you know a petite goth girl, Tracey Thomas?

Afraid not, goths hadn't been invented when I left.

[mat the expat]

Who has this guy got in his pocket to get away so lightly with this?
https://ukaviation.news/arrogant-pilot- ... -raf-base/

Illegal landing on RAF base without even having a pilot's licence. And in a PC12 FFS.

It's astonishing but I guess it's a lot of money by Caernarfon standards. I grew up within a stone's throw of Valley - Vampires, Gnats and Vickers Varsities.

My old stomping ground in the Cadets - 1310 Eryri!

We used to go to Valley to be "bodies" for the SARTU unit. Great fun being dropped off on the mountains.

The AEF at Woodvale would often fly over and base themselves at Valley.

The base is one of the best for spotting unusual aircraft as it's the designated emergency base for landings post Atlantic crossing

[Torquemada 1420]

It's astonishing but I guess it's a lot of money by Caernarfon standards. I grew up within a stone's throw of Valley - Vampires, Gnats and Vickers Varsities.

I know this is a massive long shot given the commonality of name, but did you know a petite goth girl, Tracey Thomas?

Afraid not, goths hadn't been invented when I left.

LOL. She would be 54 now so an original goth. Reason I asked is she was closest friends with the 1st boss and Valley probably only has 10 inhabitants..........

[GogLais]

I know this is a massive long shot given the commonality of name, but did you know a petite goth girl, Tracey Thomas?

Afraid not, goths hadn't been invented when I left.

LOL. She would be 54 now so an original goth. Reason I asked is she was closest friends with the 1st boss and Valley probably only has 10 inhabitants..........

I'm a farm boy, I didn't grow up anywhere as cosmopolitan as Valley. Valley even had traffic lights.

[Torquemada 1420]

Afraid not, goths hadn't been invented when I left.

LOL. She would be 54 now so an original goth. Reason I asked is she was closest friends with the 1st boss and Valley probably only has 10 inhabitants..........

I'm a farm boy, I didn't grow up anywhere as cosmopolitan as Valley. Valley even had traffic lights.

[Torquemada 1420]

Brings a tear to the eye

https://wingstv.uscreen.io/programs/fly ... ryId=25791

[Yeeb]

Quiz time !

Anyone recognise this bad boy ?

[GogLais]

Quiz time !

Anyone recognise this bad boy ?

It may look like a random collection of letters but I believe it's an FMA AeMB.2. The trouser fairings were the clue.

[Torquemada 1420]

Quiz time !

Anyone recognise this bad boy ?

It may look like a random collection of letters but I believe it's an FMA AeMB.2. The trouser fairings were the clue.

Quality banana republic engineering.

[Yeeb]

Jeez you guys are good

Yep you are correct - I will freely admit until a week or so ago, I had never heard of it. I know they did a mosquito style plane, and one after with six cannon, but never knew the predecessor until now. Just reminded me of a seventies dude wearing flares, wearing a tit.

[Torquemada 1420]

Here's a thing I heard in a doco recently that I thought had to be incorrect......... but turns out to be true.

The B17's bomb load was no more than a Mosquitos!!!!

B17
Bombs:
Short range missions (<400 mi): 8,000 lb (3,600 kg)
Long range missions (≈800 mi): 4,500 lb (2,000 kg)

Mosquito
Bombs: 4,000 lb (1,800 kg)

And for comparison........

Lancaster
Bombs: Maximum normal bomb load of 14,000 lb (6,400 kg) of bombs

although I've seen specs listed as high as 21,000lb i.e. 5x what the B17 could manage.

BTW, the Liberator was not much better than her sibling.

[Yeeb]

You are a massive plane nerd torq, how did you not know this already ??!
Iirc the b17 it was for the longer range, some of the rear bomb bay was filled with an auxiliary tank for fuel . The Lanc 21k was only when they removed the H2S dome underneath and was for special occasions , 12k was normal load I think - one big bomb, four medium ones , and then a bunch of smaller 250lb ones or incendiaries (depending on what wave they were, first waves were HE to blow up buildings and gas mains, later ones had incendiaries to set all the gas on fire )