So, coronavirus...

Where goats go to escape
Lobby
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Saint wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:27 pm
The Druid wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:07 pm
tc27 wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:54 pm


To be fair nothings being blocked yet. And if it is one of the main ingredients for the PZ jab is made here in the UK...
Would we be able to source the Pfizer vaccine elsewhere though? I was thinking of the people waiting for their second top-up jab. I know that one of the main ingredients for the Pfizer jab is made here in the Uk but surely threatening to withhold that will just be lowering the UK to the EU hysterical theatrics.

Two global production facilities for Pfizer - USA, and EU.

USA will not export, full stop. Whilst a part of me would enjoy the schadenfreude, I really hope that we don't go down virus war route that EU MEPs appear intent on - it's going to be hard enough to repair relationships after this without us actually getting in on the act.

le I said, second dose from a different product is a problem only in that we won't know the true efficacy without long term study
Ideally, you’d get Pfizer to brief the EU that if they attempt to seize supplies intended for the UK, then they risk halting production completely, and reducing their own supplies to nothing, so that the EU gets the message without the UK having to get involved. They could, at the same time threaten to relocate their facilities if the EU try to seize their IP.
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Saint
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Lobby wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:38 pm
Saint wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:27 pm
The Druid wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:07 pm

Would we be able to source the Pfizer vaccine elsewhere though? I was thinking of the people waiting for their second top-up jab. I know that one of the main ingredients for the Pfizer jab is made here in the Uk but surely threatening to withhold that will just be lowering the UK to the EU hysterical theatrics.

Two global production facilities for Pfizer - USA, and EU.

USA will not export, full stop. Whilst a part of me would enjoy the schadenfreude, I really hope that we don't go down virus war route that EU MEPs appear intent on - it's going to be hard enough to repair relationships after this without us actually getting in on the act.

le I said, second dose from a different product is a problem only in that we won't know the true efficacy without long term study
Ideally, you’d get Pfizer to brief the EU that if they attempt to seize supplies intended for the UK, then they risk halting production completely, and reducing their own supplies to nothing, so that the EU gets the message without the UK having to get involved. They could, at the same time threaten to relocate their facilities if the EU try to seize their IP.
Relocaction of mRNA facilities not so realistic, but for the rest of it, yeah.
Lobby
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Lobby wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:38 pm
Saint wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:27 pm
The Druid wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:07 pm

Would we be able to source the Pfizer vaccine elsewhere though? I was thinking of the people waiting for their second top-up jab. I know that one of the main ingredients for the Pfizer jab is made here in the Uk but surely threatening to withhold that will just be lowering the UK to the EU hysterical theatrics.

Two global production facilities for Pfizer - USA, and EU.

USA will not export, full stop. Whilst a part of me would enjoy the schadenfreude, I really hope that we don't go down virus war route that EU MEPs appear intent on - it's going to be hard enough to repair relationships after this without us actually getting in on the act.

le I said, second dose from a different product is a problem only in that we won't know the true efficacy without long term study
Ideally, you’d get Pfizer to brief the EU that if they attempt to seize supplies intended for the UK, then they risk halting production completely, and reducing their own supplies to nothing, so that the EU gets the message without the UK having to get involved. They could, at the same time threaten to relocate their facilities if the EU try to seize their IP.
International Chamber of Commerce has warned the EU about jeopardizing vaccine supply chains

https://www.businessinsider.com/eu-plan ... ?r=US&IR=T
tc27
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Notable deescalation in language.

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Saint
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tc27 wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:47 pm Notable deescalation in language.

She's been given her marching orders by Angela

The de-escalation in language is useful, but there's a lot of walkback to go
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Enzedder
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Sandstorm wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:05 pm
Saint wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:57 am
The real risk is with the EU threatening to withhold Pfizer; we could choose to be real shits with them then and withold the component manufactured only in East Yorkshire, but then this really would start spiralling out of control.
There's only one option for UK to resolve this:

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What?? Call in the Yanks?
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Hal Jordan
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Enzedder wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:23 am
Sandstorm wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:05 pm
Saint wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:57 am
The real risk is with the EU threatening to withhold Pfizer; we could choose to be real shits with them then and withold the component manufactured only in East Yorkshire, but then this really would start spiralling out of control.
There's only one option for UK to resolve this:

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What?? Call in the Yanks?
Hey!
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Hal Jordan
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The EU have properly screwed the pooch on this one.

Sadly hearing on the radio that take up in the BAME community isn't great for various reasons, and they're very much at risk, often more so.
Biffer
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It seems what they’re saying is that the export controls can stop export of vaccines where they haven’t met their contract with the EU. So to stop the Pfizer vaccine coming to the UK, they would have to state that Pfizer are also in breach of contract, something they haven’t done. Not sure how Germany and Belgium would react to that.

So in reality this might just mean that they stop any export of AZ. Which ends up having no effect on the UK, but stops other countries getting access e.g. in North Africa. Not a great look for the EU.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Raggs
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They've said that the restrictions won't stop north Africa or covax getting vaccines.
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Biffer
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Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:53 am They've said that the restrictions won't stop north Africa or covax getting vaccines.
So it doesn’t seem like they’re doing much at all except make a lot of noise.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Sandstorm
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Biffer wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:23 am
Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:53 am They've said that the restrictions won't stop north Africa or covax getting vaccines.
So it doesn’t seem like they’re doing much at all except make a lot of noise.
It’s just Brussels arse-covering, although heads might roll over there at last!
shaggy
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So it is purely to stop vaccine export to the UK then.
Lobby
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I wonder if Sturgeon is having second thoughts this morning about her threat to inform the EU about the vaccine delivery schedules for Scotland.
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Raggs
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shaggy wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:38 am So it is purely to stop vaccine export to the UK then.
Impossible to say, I don't know who else has signed up to deals, but there's plenty of countries not covered by the exceptions.
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westport
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:clap:
tc27
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Could be the first 500k day even with Wales under reporting
Biffer
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tc27 wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:05 pm

Could be the first 500k day even with Wales under reporting
Scotland was 27/28k. Should increase this week with further mass centres opening e.g. Edinburgh International Conference Centre
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Saint
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Biffer wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:24 pm
tc27 wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:05 pm

Could be the first 500k day even with Wales under reporting
Scotland was 27/28k. Should increase this week with further mass centres opening e.g. Edinburgh International Conference Centre

Total UK number was around 490k

Averaging around 362k per day on a 7 day rolling average. or around 2.5 million a week
tc27
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Just missed half a million but if the weekly pattern repeats tomorrow should exceed todays.
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frodder
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Saint wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:25 pm
Biffer wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:24 pm
tc27 wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:05 pm

Could be the first 500k day even with Wales under reporting
Scotland was 27/28k. Should increase this week with further mass centres opening e.g. Edinburgh International Conference Centre

Total UK number was around 490k

Averaging around 362k per day on a 7 day rolling average. or around 2.5 million a week
Really good numbers. When winter sods off we'll really be moving in right direction
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Raggs
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Just reading that the EU doesn't have any Novavax on order yet.
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Saint
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Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:32 pm Just reading that the EU doesn't have any Novavax on order yet.
Nope, they had "exploratory talks" in mid December.

Not really sure what they're up to. We didn't have any Moderna ordered, but as soon as they released their Phase 3 data we got an order in almost immediately
Last edited by Saint on Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lobby
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Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:32 pm Just reading that the EU doesn't have any Novavax on order yet.
Here’s a graphic breakdown of vaccine deals by company/country

Image
C T
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Lobby wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:51 pm
Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:32 pm Just reading that the EU doesn't have any Novavax on order yet.
Here’s a graphic breakdown of vaccine deals by company/country

Image
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Raggs
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Would be interesting to see that arranged in terms of how far along each vaccine is. So those that have been released and received approval from biggest markets etc at the top, and those still in trials at the bottom etc.
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Biffer
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Lobby wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:51 pm
Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:32 pm Just reading that the EU doesn't have any Novavax on order yet.
Here’s a graphic breakdown of vaccine deals by company/country

Image
Wow, Canada.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
tc27
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Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:32 pm Just reading that the EU doesn't have any Novavax on order yet.
Not necessarily a problem when you dont recognise the concept of first come first serve.
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Saint
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GSK is one of the Sanofi partnerships, so might never actually arrive
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Saint
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Biffer wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:33 pm
Lobby wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:51 pm
Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:32 pm Just reading that the EU doesn't have any Novavax on order yet.
Here’s a graphic breakdown of vaccine deals by company/country

Image
Wow, Canada.
Well, they share a large land border with the US. They're understandably worried and need the protection
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Sandstorm
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Canada are boxing clever. They’ll sell 150m spare shots to the Yanks at 300% markup.
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Raggs
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So apparently nearly 1 in 3 people who get hospitalised (not just ICU), end up having to return to hospital within a few months of release, with multiple different organ issues. I know of someone (not personally) who's kidneys have been trashed, and is now on a transplant list, previously fit and healthy too. My dad's heart has gotten significantly worse since having covid too, with new issues arising. I know that's anecdotal, but there's significant evidence out there too now. This is so far from a dead/alive scenario. And I suspect those who now have other issues, should they die from them (as is obviously possible from heart/liver/kidney/lung damage), it wouldn't go down as a covid death.

EDIT - Also missed, 1 in 8 die within a few months of discharge.
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Sandstorm
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Raggs wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:10 pm So apparently nearly 1 in 3 people who get hospitalised (not just ICU), end up having to return to hospital within a few months of release, with multiple different organ issues. I know of someone (not personally) who's kidneys have been trashed, and is now on a transplant list, previously fit and healthy too. My dad's heart has gotten significantly worse since having covid too, with new issues arising. I know that's anecdotal, but there's significant evidence out there too now. This is so far from a dead/alive scenario. And I suspect those who now have other issues, should they die from them (as is obviously possible from heart/liver/kidney/lung damage), it wouldn't go down as a covid death.

EDIT - Also missed, 1 in 8 die within a few months of discharge.
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Raggs
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Article on it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... ve-months/

Those who had covid are 3.5 times more likely to be readmitted and die (within 140 days), than other hospital patients. Many apparently developed diabetes.

The more I read on this, the more concerned I become. I hope vaccination seriously reduces long covid, and also transmission. Makes me feel all the more ludicrous for thinking herd immunity may not be a bad approach (before the numbers started becoming apparent that it hospitalises a lot regardless).

Hopefully, from now on, a new pandemic will trigger global lockdowns far swifter, and hopefully prevent serious issues.

Overall, despite all the long covid and deaths, and the new variants, covid is still seeming a relatively tame illness compared to what it could have been.
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Enzedder
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I hope this isn't true

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mat the expat
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It is sadly
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hope.jpg
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Saint
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Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:44 amhope.jpg
Looking like we've tipped over the top. Vax should start to impact figures over the next 14 days as well
dkm57
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Saint wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:07 am
Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:44 amhope.jpg
Looking like we've tipped over the top. Vax should start to impact figures over the next 14 days as well
I really hope so. Long way to go we'll get there but hope people stick with the plan and don't give this horrible virus the chance to ramp up again.

Personally I'd like to see every one of those antivaxxers charged with manslaughter of those who die of covid because they were prevented from getting vaccinated by this action. If they don't want the vaccine fair enough, they can take their chance but they have no right to prevent others protecting themselves.
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