So, coronavirus...

Where goats go to escape
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Marylandolorian
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:47 pm
Location: Amerikanuak

Fangle wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:00 pm Which vaccine did you get? I think I’m going to get the Pfizer.
Good article yesterday in The NY Times about Pfzr vaccine
Spoiler
Show



The Covid-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE generates robust immunity after one dose and can be stored in ordinary freezers instead of at ultracold temperatures, according to new research and data released by the companies.

The findings provide strong arguments in favor of delaying the second dose of the two-shot vaccine, as the U.K. has done. They could also have substantial implications on vaccine policy and distribution around the world, simplifying the logistics of distributing the vaccine.

A single shot of the vaccine is 85% effective in preventing symptomatic disease 15 to 28 days after being administered, according to a peer-reviewed study conducted by the Israeli government-owned Sheba Medical Center and published in the Lancet medical journal. Pfizer and BioNTech recommend that a second dose is administered 21 days after the first.

The finding is a vindication of the approach taken by the U.K. government to delay a second dose by up to 12 weeks so it could use limited supplies to deliver a single dose to more people, and could encourage others to follow suit. Almost one-third of the U.K.’s adult population has now received at least one vaccine shot. Other authorities in parts of Canada and Europe have prioritized an initial shot, hoping they will have enough doses for a booster when needed.


Preliminary data also suggest that the other widely used vaccine in the U.K. developed by AstraZeneca PLC and the University of Oxford could have a substantial effect after a first dose.

The Israeli findings came from the first real-world data about the effect of the vaccine gathered outside of clinical trials in one of the leading nations in immunization against the coronavirus. Israel has given the first shot to 4.2 million people—more than two-thirds of eligible citizens over 16 years old—and a second shot to 2.8 million, according to its health ministry. The country has around 9.3 million citizens.

PFIZER’S VACCINE


Symptomatic Cases Dropped 94% With Pfizer Vaccine, Data Show (Feb. 15)
How Pfizer Delivered a Covid Vaccine in Record Time (Dec. 11)
The study, which involved about 9,000 people, also found a 75% reduction in both symptomatic and asymptomatic infections after the first shot. The study was published as a correspondence, meaning it represents the views of the authors and not the Lancet.

“This is the first study assessing effectiveness of a single vaccine dose in real-life conditions and shows early effectiveness, even before the second dose was administered,” said Eyal Leshem, director of Sheba’s Center for Travel Medicine and Tropical Diseases and one of the authors of the study.

Separately, the vaccine, which has been authorized in the U.S., the U.K., the EU and elsewhere, can be stored and transported at between minus 25 and minus 15 degrees Celsius, or minus 13 and 5 degrees Fahrenheit—similar to a consumer freezer—Pfizer and BioNTech said. Currently, the vaccine’s labels say it must be stored at between minus 80 and minus 60 degrees Celsius, requiring sophisticated equipment.

The companies said they were seeking approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to change the vaccine’s storage rules, a move that would make it much easier to handle and potentially accessible to poorer countries with no access to ultracold distribution and storage equipment.

Ugur Sahin, the co-founder of BioNTech, said the temperature data would enable the vaccine to be handled by ordinary pharmacies.

Pfizer’s original clinical study showed 52.4% effectiveness after one shot, but didn’t differentiate between before and after two weeks. That focused on a two-dose regime and found 95% efficacy a week after the second shot. The Sheba study shows just one dose could reach close to that level of efficacy.

During the period when the data was gathered, a coronavirus variant that was first detected in the U.K. and is considered more contagious than the original pathogen made up over 81% of confirmed infections. The data amount to strong evidence that the vaccine is highly effective against a mutation that has forced European governments to prolong their lockdowns.
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Saint
Posts: 2274
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am

Marylandolorian wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:12 pm
Fangle wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:00 pm Which vaccine did you get? I think I’m going to get the Pfizer.
Good article yesterday in The NY Times about Pfzr vaccine
Spoiler
Show



The Covid-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE generates robust immunity after one dose and can be stored in ordinary freezers instead of at ultracold temperatures, according to new research and data released by the companies.

The findings provide strong arguments in favor of delaying the second dose of the two-shot vaccine, as the U.K. has done. They could also have substantial implications on vaccine policy and distribution around the world, simplifying the logistics of distributing the vaccine.

A single shot of the vaccine is 85% effective in preventing symptomatic disease 15 to 28 days after being administered, according to a peer-reviewed study conducted by the Israeli government-owned Sheba Medical Center and published in the Lancet medical journal. Pfizer and BioNTech recommend that a second dose is administered 21 days after the first.

The finding is a vindication of the approach taken by the U.K. government to delay a second dose by up to 12 weeks so it could use limited supplies to deliver a single dose to more people, and could encourage others to follow suit. Almost one-third of the U.K.’s adult population has now received at least one vaccine shot. Other authorities in parts of Canada and Europe have prioritized an initial shot, hoping they will have enough doses for a booster when needed.


Preliminary data also suggest that the other widely used vaccine in the U.K. developed by AstraZeneca PLC and the University of Oxford could have a substantial effect after a first dose.

The Israeli findings came from the first real-world data about the effect of the vaccine gathered outside of clinical trials in one of the leading nations in immunization against the coronavirus. Israel has given the first shot to 4.2 million people—more than two-thirds of eligible citizens over 16 years old—and a second shot to 2.8 million, according to its health ministry. The country has around 9.3 million citizens.

PFIZER’S VACCINE


Symptomatic Cases Dropped 94% With Pfizer Vaccine, Data Show (Feb. 15)
How Pfizer Delivered a Covid Vaccine in Record Time (Dec. 11)
The study, which involved about 9,000 people, also found a 75% reduction in both symptomatic and asymptomatic infections after the first shot. The study was published as a correspondence, meaning it represents the views of the authors and not the Lancet.

“This is the first study assessing effectiveness of a single vaccine dose in real-life conditions and shows early effectiveness, even before the second dose was administered,” said Eyal Leshem, director of Sheba’s Center for Travel Medicine and Tropical Diseases and one of the authors of the study.

Separately, the vaccine, which has been authorized in the U.S., the U.K., the EU and elsewhere, can be stored and transported at between minus 25 and minus 15 degrees Celsius, or minus 13 and 5 degrees Fahrenheit—similar to a consumer freezer—Pfizer and BioNTech said. Currently, the vaccine’s labels say it must be stored at between minus 80 and minus 60 degrees Celsius, requiring sophisticated equipment.

The companies said they were seeking approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to change the vaccine’s storage rules, a move that would make it much easier to handle and potentially accessible to poorer countries with no access to ultracold distribution and storage equipment.

Ugur Sahin, the co-founder of BioNTech, said the temperature data would enable the vaccine to be handled by ordinary pharmacies.

Pfizer’s original clinical study showed 52.4% effectiveness after one shot, but didn’t differentiate between before and after two weeks. That focused on a two-dose regime and found 95% efficacy a week after the second shot. The Sheba study shows just one dose could reach close to that level of efficacy.

During the period when the data was gathered, a coronavirus variant that was first detected in the U.K. and is considered more contagious than the original pathogen made up over 81% of confirmed infections. The data amount to strong evidence that the vaccine is highly effective against a mutation that has forced European governments to prolong their lockdowns.
So, one of the issues of the Pfizer and Moderna trials is that the FDA mandated the 3 week 2nd dose period at least partially to try and restore public confidence in vaccine trials after various publications suggested that these vaccines were too risky. As a result, real world data on the best delivery methodology is now short in supply I.e. risky, and we're only now starting to learn tge best delivery methodology.
GogLais
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:06 pm
Location: Wirral/Cilgwri

Ymx wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:16 am
GogLais wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:05 pm
SaintK wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:32 pm
Had mine last weekend
Arm ached a bit for 3 days and felt a bit listless/ tired for 48 hours
Had no effect on my autism though!
Same here. Ms GL had the shakes and chills, ok now. You’ll be pleased to hear.
How old are you lot and which area?

Just wondering which age it’s being dished out to now across the country?
71, on the Wirral, the Leisure Peninsula.
dpedin
Posts: 2975
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:35 am

Jasonstry wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:29 pm Based close to J11 of the M6 near Birmingham but in a rural area. I am 60 with mild COPD and had my first dose on 17th, which suprised me. I gather that a few others in the village also had their first dose. I suppose that, if they are going to set up a centre to target the most vulnerable, they might as well cover as many people as they can on the day but within limits. My wife is 58 and has mild asthma wasn't invited. Very efficiently done but very laid back and friendly. Arm ached a bit and I was physically wrecked for 2 days but almost back to, ahem "normal".
I am also mildly asthmatic and initially thought I would be vaccinated due to underlying conditions. However it now seems that if you haven't been hospitalised with it, I have never been, and are taking a particular type of steroid/preventer inhaler, ones containing budesonide, then they reckon this might actually be preventing you catching or developing serious covid19! See https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-09-co ... ents-study. I take low dose Symbiocort for my asthma and looks like that and my daily Vitamin D is doing the job ... touch wood. Check your wife's inhaler, she might be lucky.
Jasonstry
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dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:24 pm
Jasonstry wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:29 pm Based close to J11 of the M6 near Birmingham but in a rural area. I am 60 with mild COPD and had my first dose on 17th, which suprised me. I gather that a few others in the village also had their first dose. I suppose that, if they are going to set up a centre to target the most vulnerable, they might as well cover as many people as they can on the day but within limits. My wife is 58 and has mild asthma wasn't invited. Very efficiently done but very laid back and friendly. Arm ached a bit and I was physically wrecked for 2 days but almost back to, ahem "normal".
I am also mildly asthmatic and initially thought I would be vaccinated due to underlying conditions. However it now seems that if you haven't been hospitalised with it, I have never been, and are taking a particular type of steroid/preventer inhaler, ones containing budesonide, then they reckon this might actually be preventing you catching or developing serious covid19! See https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-09-co ... ents-study. I take low dose Symbiocort for my asthma and looks like that and my daily Vitamin D is doing the job ... touch wood. Check your wife's inhaler, she might be lucky.
Thanks for that and I will do.
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Enzedder
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Location: Hamilton NZ

So, what;s on the road map. Potholes, detours and speed bumps?
I drink and I forget things.
dpedin
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Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:00 pm So, what;s on the road map. Potholes, detours and speed bumps?
It will be interesting to see who wins - the right wing, Brexit Ultras/ERG/Covid Recovery Group who want to open everything up tomorrow or the scientists/clinicians who are urging caution and a slower and more measured unlocking over next 3-6 months. Hopefully the latter will prevail but I suspect the blonde Bumblecunt will bow to the internal pressure, wave a Union Jack, give us another 'Oh, eh, umm' speech and declare covid19 is over.
tc27
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Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:00 pm So, what;s on the road map. Potholes, detours and speed bumps?
In the normal fashion its being brieifed well ahead of schedule:



Reading a bit more it looks like each step will be prerequisite on case numbers (not hospitalizations or deaths) being at particular levels
Ovals
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dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:22 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:00 pm So, what;s on the road map. Potholes, detours and speed bumps?
It will be interesting to see who wins - the right wing, Brexit Ultras/ERG/Covid Recovery Group who want to open everything up tomorrow or the scientists/clinicians who are urging caution and a slower and more measured unlocking over next 3-6 months. Hopefully the latter will prevail but I suspect the blonde Bumblecunt will bow to the internal pressure, wave a Union Jack, give us another 'Oh, eh, umm' speech and declare covid19 is over.
I don't think he will - although I'm sure he'll throw them a bone or two.

By the end of March - we should have 30M (and counting) vaccinated - should be some scope to make lives a little more tolerable by then - and let lots of businesses start earning money again.
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Saint
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tc27 wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:53 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:00 pm So, what;s on the road map. Potholes, detours and speed bumps?
In the normal fashion its being brieifed well ahead of schedule:



Reading a bit more it looks like each step will be prerequisite on case numbers (not hospitalizations or deaths) being at particular levels
About what you would expect tbh, and every stage will be caveated. I may have even posted a timeline something like this 20-30 pages ago
Ovals
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TBH I'm more interested in when we can mix, indoors, with family and friends. None of this 'rule of six' nonsense - my family is too big for that.
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BnM
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Get my vaccine next week. Not 100% sure why I'm next week but I'm not complaining. Early on they were giving out Pfizer by Dad however a few weeks back got AZ so I'm assuming I will too. Though the Pfizer looks best
Ovals
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BnM wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:14 pm Get my vaccine next week. Not 100% sure why I'm next week but I'm not complaining. Early on they were giving out Pfizer by Dad however a few weeks back got AZ so I'm assuming I will too. Though the Pfizer looks best
I don't think there's anything in it - one is as good as another - just results analysed differently.
dpedin
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Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:55 pm
dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:22 pm
Enzedder wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:00 pm So, what;s on the road map. Potholes, detours and speed bumps?
It will be interesting to see who wins - the right wing, Brexit Ultras/ERG/Covid Recovery Group who want to open everything up tomorrow or the scientists/clinicians who are urging caution and a slower and more measured unlocking over next 3-6 months. Hopefully the latter will prevail but I suspect the blonde Bumblecunt will bow to the internal pressure, wave a Union Jack, give us another 'Oh, eh, umm' speech and declare covid19 is over.
I don't think he will - although I'm sure he'll throw them a bone or two.

By the end of March - we should have 30M (and counting) vaccinated - should be some scope to make lives a little more tolerable by then - and let lots of businesses start earning money again.
When you say vaccinated is that one or two jabs? If one jab then they have only been partially vaccinated? 30m is c45% of the population, with the increase in transmissibility of the new variants we need c80+% vaccination levels to get to herd immunity. Whilst indications are that the single jab brings a higher level of immunisation than previously thought and lowers the risk of transmission, there is also increasing evidence that long covid is impacting upon the younger population more than previously thought.

Everyone is desperate to get out of lock down but I'm also desperate that we don't go back into another lock down if we exit too fast and case numbers spiral again. Hopefully the fear of having another lock down will curb BB's desire to be good news man and release too early. I agree the prospects look very good for spring and summer but we need to stay calm and not feck it up in the rush to exit lock down. My worry is the route map will be the right one but he will feck up the messaging so badly that everyone only hears what they want to hear and decide lock down is finished and go wild too early. He really needs to get this right.
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Saint
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Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:13 pm TBH I'm more interested in when we can mix, indoors, with family and friends. None of this 'rule of six' nonsense - my family is too big for that.
June/July if you want a "no restrictions" policy. Anything earlier than that will be a bonus
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Sandstorm
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Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:13 pm TBH I'm more interested in when we can mix, indoors, with family and friends. None of this 'rule of six' nonsense - my family is too big for that.
Meet too early and your family could be smaller afterwards.



*Harsh, but true
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Saint
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dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:30 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:55 pm
dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:22 pm

It will be interesting to see who wins - the right wing, Brexit Ultras/ERG/Covid Recovery Group who want to open everything up tomorrow or the scientists/clinicians who are urging caution and a slower and more measured unlocking over next 3-6 months. Hopefully the latter will prevail but I suspect the blonde Bumblecunt will bow to the internal pressure, wave a Union Jack, give us another 'Oh, eh, umm' speech and declare covid19 is over.
I don't think he will - although I'm sure he'll throw them a bone or two.

By the end of March - we should have 30M (and counting) vaccinated - should be some scope to make lives a little more tolerable by then - and let lots of businesses start earning money again.
When you say vaccinated is that one or two jabs? If one jab then they have only been partially vaccinated? 30m is c45% of the population, with the increase in transmissibility of the new variants we need c80+% vaccination levels to get to herd immunity. Whilst indications are that the single jab brings a higher level of immunisation than previously thought and lowers the risk of transmission, there is also increasing evidence that long covid is impacting upon the younger population more than previously thought.

Everyone is desperate to get out of lock down but I'm also desperate that we don't go back into another lock down if we exit too fast and case numbers spiral again. Hopefully the fear of having another lock down will curb BB's desire to be good news man and release too early. I agree the prospects look very good for spring and summer but we need to stay calm and not feck it up in the rush to exit lock down. My worry is the route map will be the right one but he will feck up the messaging so badly that everyone only hears what they want to hear and decide lock down is finished and go wild too early. He really needs to get this right.
I think you're overplaying the vaccination level requirement, but at the same time I agree that there's a risk of Boris being held to any timetable he proposes without any consideration of changes to the situation vis a vis new strains etc. Frankly, if I were Boris I would be standing up tomorrow and say something along the lines of we're going to relax restrictions as soon as we feel safe - but I'm not going to give you any timelines at all as we don't know how things will change. If you want to replace me as PM go ahead, otherwise shut the fuck up
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fishfoodie
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Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:53 pm
dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:30 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:55 pm

I don't think he will - although I'm sure he'll throw them a bone or two.

By the end of March - we should have 30M (and counting) vaccinated - should be some scope to make lives a little more tolerable by then - and let lots of businesses start earning money again.
When you say vaccinated is that one or two jabs? If one jab then they have only been partially vaccinated? 30m is c45% of the population, with the increase in transmissibility of the new variants we need c80+% vaccination levels to get to herd immunity. Whilst indications are that the single jab brings a higher level of immunisation than previously thought and lowers the risk of transmission, there is also increasing evidence that long covid is impacting upon the younger population more than previously thought.

Everyone is desperate to get out of lock down but I'm also desperate that we don't go back into another lock down if we exit too fast and case numbers spiral again. Hopefully the fear of having another lock down will curb BB's desire to be good news man and release too early. I agree the prospects look very good for spring and summer but we need to stay calm and not feck it up in the rush to exit lock down. My worry is the route map will be the right one but he will feck up the messaging so badly that everyone only hears what they want to hear and decide lock down is finished and go wild too early. He really needs to get this right.
I think you're overplaying the vaccination level requirement, but at the same time I agree that there's a risk of Boris being held to any timetable he proposes without any consideration of changes to the situation vis a vis new strains etc. Frankly, if I were Boris I would be standing up tomorrow and say something along the lines of we're going to relax restrictions as soon as we feel safe - but I'm not going to give you any timelines at all as we don't know how things will change. If you want to replace me as PM go ahead, otherwise shut the fuck up
So you're expecting the bumblecunt to not bind his Government into a hard deadline; & instead to risk unpopularity; by insisting that relaxing of restrictions will be tied to actual data ??? .....

Image
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Saint
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fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:35 pm
Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:53 pm
dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:30 pm

When you say vaccinated is that one or two jabs? If one jab then they have only been partially vaccinated? 30m is c45% of the population, with the increase in transmissibility of the new variants we need c80+% vaccination levels to get to herd immunity. Whilst indications are that the single jab brings a higher level of immunisation than previously thought and lowers the risk of transmission, there is also increasing evidence that long covid is impacting upon the younger population more than previously thought.

Everyone is desperate to get out of lock down but I'm also desperate that we don't go back into another lock down if we exit too fast and case numbers spiral again. Hopefully the fear of having another lock down will curb BB's desire to be good news man and release too early. I agree the prospects look very good for spring and summer but we need to stay calm and not feck it up in the rush to exit lock down. My worry is the route map will be the right one but he will feck up the messaging so badly that everyone only hears what they want to hear and decide lock down is finished and go wild too early. He really needs to get this right.
I think you're overplaying the vaccination level requirement, but at the same time I agree that there's a risk of Boris being held to any timetable he proposes without any consideration of changes to the situation vis a vis new strains etc. Frankly, if I were Boris I would be standing up tomorrow and say something along the lines of we're going to relax restrictions as soon as we feel safe - but I'm not going to give you any timelines at all as we don't know how things will change. If you want to replace me as PM go ahead, otherwise shut the fuck up
So you're expecting the bumblecunt to not bind his Government into a hard deadline; & instead to risk unpopularity; by insisting that relaxing of restrictions will be tied to actual data ??? .....

Image
If he had half a brain cell he could guarantee re-election right there and then. This stuff should be so easy for him to play to the public that the right wing nutters would get sidelined by all the moderates he would bring on board. Showing a bit of backbonbe and leadership right now is, frankly, very easy
Ovals
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dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:30 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:55 pm
dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:22 pm

It will be interesting to see who wins - the right wing, Brexit Ultras/ERG/Covid Recovery Group who want to open everything up tomorrow or the scientists/clinicians who are urging caution and a slower and more measured unlocking over next 3-6 months. Hopefully the latter will prevail but I suspect the blonde Bumblecunt will bow to the internal pressure, wave a Union Jack, give us another 'Oh, eh, umm' speech and declare covid19 is over.
I don't think he will - although I'm sure he'll throw them a bone or two.

By the end of March - we should have 30M (and counting) vaccinated - should be some scope to make lives a little more tolerable by then - and let lots of businesses start earning money again.
When you say vaccinated is that one or two jabs? If one jab then they have only been partially vaccinated? 30m is c45% of the population, with the increase in transmissibility of the new variants we need c80+% vaccination levels to get to herd immunity. Whilst indications are that the single jab brings a higher level of immunisation than previously thought and lowers the risk of transmission, there is also increasing evidence that long covid is impacting upon the younger population more than previously thought.

Everyone is desperate to get out of lock down but I'm also desperate that we don't go back into another lock down if we exit too fast and case numbers spiral again. Hopefully the fear of having another lock down will curb BB's desire to be good news man and release too early. I agree the prospects look very good for spring and summer but we need to stay calm and not feck it up in the rush to exit lock down. My worry is the route map will be the right one but he will feck up the messaging so badly that everyone only hears what they want to hear and decide lock down is finished and go wild too early. He really needs to get this right.
One jab - but it still gives far better protection than, say, the Flu jab - and it appears to substantially reduce transmission. We had none of these benefits last summer and cases were minimal by the summer with a lockdown that didn't start until late March. I think we have to be very cautious - which is why I said 'some scope to make lives more tolerable' not go for a free for all.
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fishfoodie
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Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:38 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:35 pm
Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:53 pm

I think you're overplaying the vaccination level requirement, but at the same time I agree that there's a risk of Boris being held to any timetable he proposes without any consideration of changes to the situation vis a vis new strains etc. Frankly, if I were Boris I would be standing up tomorrow and say something along the lines of we're going to relax restrictions as soon as we feel safe - but I'm not going to give you any timelines at all as we don't know how things will change. If you want to replace me as PM go ahead, otherwise shut the fuck up
So you're expecting the bumblecunt to not bind his Government into a hard deadline; & instead to risk unpopularity; by insisting that relaxing of restrictions will be tied to actual data ??? .....

Image
If he had half a brain cell he could guarantee re-election right there and then. This stuff should be so easy for him to play to the public that the right wing nutters would get sidelined by all the moderates he would bring on board. Showing a bit of backbonbe and leadership right now is, frankly, very easy
I don't think he cares any more.

The job has turned out to be entirely more work than he is prepared to do; & now I expect him to wait until; effectively the entire population has been vaccinated; & then declare victory, & piss off to the after-dinner speech circuit. He'll leave the stinking mess of a flat lining economy, the brexit shambles, & a Union about to blow apart into its constituent parts, to some other stupid sod.

New Tory Leadership battle over the summer so.
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Saint
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fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:09 pm
Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:38 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:35 pm

So you're expecting the bumblecunt to not bind his Government into a hard deadline; & instead to risk unpopularity; by insisting that relaxing of restrictions will be tied to actual data ??? .....

Image
If he had half a brain cell he could guarantee re-election right there and then. This stuff should be so easy for him to play to the public that the right wing nutters would get sidelined by all the moderates he would bring on board. Showing a bit of backbonbe and leadership right now is, frankly, very easy
I don't think he cares any more.

The job has turned out to be entirely more work than he is prepared to do; & now I expect him to wait until; effectively the entire population has been vaccinated; & then declare victory, & piss off to the after-dinner speech circuit. He'll leave the stinking mess of a flat lining economy, the brexit shambles, & a Union about to blow apart into its constituent parts, to some other stupid sod.

New Tory Leadership battle over the summer so.
Maybe so - but the irony is that right now it would be very easy to be his hero and do the Churchill thing, without actually having to do anything particularly difficult. It;s wierd, but being PM right now is one of the easiest jobs in the world. The difficult stuff is the next 10 years, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Instead, he seems to be worried about a short term approval level inside his own parliamentary party - which he could sideline in a heartbeat if he had an an ounce of common sense.
Ovals
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Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:52 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:09 pm
Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:38 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:35 pm

So you're expecting the bumblecunt to not bind his Government into a hard deadline; & instead to risk unpopularity; by insisting that relaxing of restrictions will be tied to actual data ??? .....

Image
If he had half a brain cell he could guarantee re-election right there and then. This stuff should be so easy for him to play to the public that the right wing nutters would get sidelined by all the moderates he would bring on board. Showing a bit of backbonbe and leadership right now is, frankly, very easy
I don't think he cares any more.

The job has turned out to be entirely more work than he is prepared to do; & now I expect him to wait until; effectively the entire population has been vaccinated; & then declare victory, & piss off to the after-dinner speech circuit. He'll leave the stinking mess of a flat lining economy, the brexit shambles, & a Union about to blow apart into its constituent parts, to some other stupid sod.

New Tory Leadership battle over the summer so.
I think you underestimate a politician's thirst for power.
tc27
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I think the plan is relatively sensible as long as the criteria for opening up are observed.

BYW There is no chance of Johnson going anytime soon. The damage bounce/back from Covid will hide most of the Brexit damage and he will want to define his premiership beyond Brexit and Covid. The only thing that sends him off early is loosing the Union but hs not stupid enough to put it to a vote (and the SNP is in absolute internal turmoil).
dpedin
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Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:16 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:09 pm
Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:38 pm

If he had half a brain cell he could guarantee re-election right there and then. This stuff should be so easy for him to play to the public that the right wing nutters would get sidelined by all the moderates he would bring on board. Showing a bit of backbonbe and leadership right now is, frankly, very easy
I don't think he cares any more.

The job has turned out to be entirely more work than he is prepared to do; & now I expect him to wait until; effectively the entire population has been vaccinated; & then declare victory, & piss off to the after-dinner speech circuit. He'll leave the stinking mess of a flat lining economy, the brexit shambles, & a Union about to blow apart into its constituent parts, to some other stupid sod.

New Tory Leadership battle over the summer so.
I think you underestimate a politician's thirst for power.
Its going to be difficult to justify one of the worst death rates in the world along with one of the worst drops in GDP in the world! Once the dust has settled it is going to be patently clear that the UK has done exceptionally badly in managing the covid19 response and the economic response ... never mind the long term negative impact of Brexit. Its going to get too tough for the Blonde Bumbelcunt and his Brexit Ultras, they'll feck off to their city jobs within a couple of years and leave the clean up to the grown ups.
dpedin
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Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:08 pm
dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:30 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:55 pm

I don't think he will - although I'm sure he'll throw them a bone or two.

By the end of March - we should have 30M (and counting) vaccinated - should be some scope to make lives a little more tolerable by then - and let lots of businesses start earning money again.
When you say vaccinated is that one or two jabs? If one jab then they have only been partially vaccinated? 30m is c45% of the population, with the increase in transmissibility of the new variants we need c80+% vaccination levels to get to herd immunity. Whilst indications are that the single jab brings a higher level of immunisation than previously thought and lowers the risk of transmission, there is also increasing evidence that long covid is impacting upon the younger population more than previously thought.

Everyone is desperate to get out of lock down but I'm also desperate that we don't go back into another lock down if we exit too fast and case numbers spiral again. Hopefully the fear of having another lock down will curb BB's desire to be good news man and release too early. I agree the prospects look very good for spring and summer but we need to stay calm and not feck it up in the rush to exit lock down. My worry is the route map will be the right one but he will feck up the messaging so badly that everyone only hears what they want to hear and decide lock down is finished and go wild too early. He really needs to get this right.

One jab - but it still gives far better protection than, say, the Flu jab - and it appears to substantially reduce transmission. We had none of these benefits last summer and cases were minimal by the summer with a lockdown that didn't start until late March. I think we have to be very cautious - which is why I said 'some scope to make lives more tolerable' not go for a free for all.
Sorry - misread your post! Yeh better than flu jab but covid19 is far more dangerous and has a higher hospitalisation and death rate. I think the next 3 months will be absolutely crucial, do it right and we might be on easy street come summer, depending on new variants, get it wrong and we could be in another lock down in April/May. Problem is we have a week or two of good weather and everyone thinks we are in summer, only two weeks ago we were in depths of winter and the weather could easily turn nasty again. Remember the 'Beast from the East' came at the end of Feb/early March, same again and we have everyone mixing indoors spreading the virus. Get this wrong and we could see cases rising quickly in March and, with built in time lags, hospitalisations, bed occupancy and ICU numbers going up in April and May.
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fishfoodie
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Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:16 pm
I think you underestimate a politician's thirst for power.
Since when was he a politician ?

He's a shit journo; with a 3rd class degree* in classics; who has been repeatedly fired for lying; & who is infamously lazy.

He doesn't have a thirst for power; he had a thirst for position. Power requires actual effort, that I don't think he's capable of; position only required him to go thru a series of, lesser positions; which ultimately led him to #10.

Any fucking cabbage can become UK PM; as long as they first get to the Leadership of the Tory Party.

* he would have had, if his daddy wasn't a Politician
dpedin
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fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:39 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:16 pm
I think you underestimate a politician's thirst for power.
Since when was he a politician ?

He's a shit journo; with a 3rd class degree* in classics; who has been repeatedly fired for lying; & who is infamously lazy.

He doesn't have a thirst for power; he had a thirst for position. Power requires actual effort, that I don't think he's capable of; position only required him to go thru a series of, lesser positions; which ultimately led him to #10.

Any fucking cabbage can become UK PM; as long as they first get to the Leadership of the Tory Party.

* he would have had, if his daddy wasn't a Politician
All the above is correct! In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

The Blonde Bumblecunt has surfed on the worldwide wave of the populist movement led by Trump and supported by a Murdoch/etc funded media. However as usual he got to the peak just too late and as the tide turns against populism he is reaching his zenith. The Tory party will go through the same process as the Republicans in the US, and face the same quandary. Stick with the jingoistic, xenophobic and racist policies led by an individual with no political, economic or moral compass or face the realities of what they have done, how big the hole is they have dug and start building a ladder? The Tories have the same problem, they have sold the jerseys and are all in on the BB ticket, they can't back down now so just have to keep going all in. They purged their party of the middle ground MPs and the new recruits were mostly hand picked for their loyalty to the BB. The Republicans are in the same hole, they can't escape the Trump/Cruz/Qanon/etc ticket so have to keep going in the same direction even though the more moderate ones know where it will end. As with all 'Dictatorships' of this ilk it will end in a spectacular failure - the US have seen it with Trump losing every election and the storming of the Capitol. We will have the same dramatic ending with the Blonde Bumblecunt, just in a far more British understated way.
Ovals
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fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:39 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:16 pm
I think you underestimate a politician's thirst for power.
Since when was he a politician ?

He's a shit journo; with a 3rd class degree* in classics; who has been repeatedly fired for lying; & who is infamously lazy.

He doesn't have a thirst for power; he had a thirst for position. Power requires actual effort, that I don't think he's capable of; position only required him to go thru a series of, lesser positions; which ultimately led him to #10.

Any fucking cabbage can become UK PM; as long as they first get to the Leadership of the Tory Party.

* he would have had, if his daddy wasn't a Politician
The guy is a total arse and a waste of space - he is most definitely a politician though - that's how he became leader of the Tories.

And his position gives him power - he doesn't have to do all the work - as long as those doing it, do what he wants - he's shown he'll get shot of those that don't toe his line - to the extent he'll even have them removed from the party. Despite all his flaws, and they are plentiful, he has still managed to get the top job and get a landslide election win - that's how politicians work. He may be an total opportunist - but that's how the game works.
Ovals
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dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:38 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:08 pm
dpedin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:30 pm

When you say vaccinated is that one or two jabs? If one jab then they have only been partially vaccinated? 30m is c45% of the population, with the increase in transmissibility of the new variants we need c80+% vaccination levels to get to herd immunity. Whilst indications are that the single jab brings a higher level of immunisation than previously thought and lowers the risk of transmission, there is also increasing evidence that long covid is impacting upon the younger population more than previously thought.

Everyone is desperate to get out of lock down but I'm also desperate that we don't go back into another lock down if we exit too fast and case numbers spiral again. Hopefully the fear of having another lock down will curb BB's desire to be good news man and release too early. I agree the prospects look very good for spring and summer but we need to stay calm and not feck it up in the rush to exit lock down. My worry is the route map will be the right one but he will feck up the messaging so badly that everyone only hears what they want to hear and decide lock down is finished and go wild too early. He really needs to get this right.

One jab - but it still gives far better protection than, say, the Flu jab - and it appears to substantially reduce transmission. We had none of these benefits last summer and cases were minimal by the summer with a lockdown that didn't start until late March. I think we have to be very cautious - which is why I said 'some scope to make lives more tolerable' not go for a free for all.
Sorry - misread your post! Yeh better than flu jab but covid19 is far more dangerous and has a higher hospitalisation and death rate. I think the next 3 months will be absolutely crucial, do it right and we might be on easy street come summer, depending on new variants, get it wrong and we could be in another lock down in April/May. Problem is we have a week or two of good weather and everyone thinks we are in summer, only two weeks ago we were in depths of winter and the weather could easily turn nasty again. Remember the 'Beast from the East' came at the end of Feb/early March, same again and we have everyone mixing indoors spreading the virus. Get this wrong and we could see cases rising quickly in March and, with built in time lags, hospitalisations, bed occupancy and ICU numbers going up in April and May.
Yeah - the next 100 days will be very telling. We could have done another 35M vaccinations in that time - and the number of people with both doses will be getting substantial. If it works, as expected, and the test and trace keeps control of variants, we should be in a pretty good place with very few deaths and cases low enough that the T&T system can manage them. But it does all depend on not letting the virus run riot again, before we get there. The vast majority of those vaccinated, so far, will not be the main sources of transmission - that will be the age groups we haven't yet got to - and won't for some while.
Biffer
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Ovals wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:00 am
fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:39 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:16 pm
I think you underestimate a politician's thirst for power.
Since when was he a politician ?

He's a shit journo; with a 3rd class degree* in classics; who has been repeatedly fired for lying; & who is infamously lazy.

He doesn't have a thirst for power; he had a thirst for position. Power requires actual effort, that I don't think he's capable of; position only required him to go thru a series of, lesser positions; which ultimately led him to #10.

Any fucking cabbage can become UK PM; as long as they first get to the Leadership of the Tory Party.

* he would have had, if his daddy wasn't a Politician
The guy is a total arse and a waste of space - he is most definitely a politician though - that's how he became leader of the Tories.

And his position gives him power - he doesn't have to do all the work - as long as those doing it, do what he wants - he's shown he'll get shot of those that don't toe his line - to the extent he'll even have them removed from the party. Despite all his flaws, and they are plentiful, he has still managed to get the top job and get a landslide election win - that's how politicians work. He may be an total opportunist - but that's how the game works.
Difference is Johnson hasn't ever really wanted to be PM. He's always wanted to have been PM. I don't think he ever really realised that himself.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Biffer
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Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:38 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:35 pm
Saint wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:53 pm

I think you're overplaying the vaccination level requirement, but at the same time I agree that there's a risk of Boris being held to any timetable he proposes without any consideration of changes to the situation vis a vis new strains etc. Frankly, if I were Boris I would be standing up tomorrow and say something along the lines of we're going to relax restrictions as soon as we feel safe - but I'm not going to give you any timelines at all as we don't know how things will change. If you want to replace me as PM go ahead, otherwise shut the fuck up
So you're expecting the bumblecunt to not bind his Government into a hard deadline; & instead to risk unpopularity; by insisting that relaxing of restrictions will be tied to actual data ??? .....

Image
If he had half a brain cell he could guarantee re-election right there and then. This stuff should be so easy for him to play to the public that the right wing nutters would get sidelined by all the moderates he would bring on board. Showing a bit of backbonbe and leadership right now is, frankly, very easy
'If' and 'should' are working very hard in this paragraph.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Ovals
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Biffer wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 am
Ovals wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:00 am
fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:39 pm

Since when was he a politician ?

He's a shit journo; with a 3rd class degree* in classics; who has been repeatedly fired for lying; & who is infamously lazy.

He doesn't have a thirst for power; he had a thirst for position. Power requires actual effort, that I don't think he's capable of; position only required him to go thru a series of, lesser positions; which ultimately led him to #10.

Any fucking cabbage can become UK PM; as long as they first get to the Leadership of the Tory Party.

* he would have had, if his daddy wasn't a Politician
The guy is a total arse and a waste of space - he is most definitely a politician though - that's how he became leader of the Tories.

And his position gives him power - he doesn't have to do all the work - as long as those doing it, do what he wants - he's shown he'll get shot of those that don't toe his line - to the extent he'll even have them removed from the party. Despite all his flaws, and they are plentiful, he has still managed to get the top job and get a landslide election win - that's how politicians work. He may be an total opportunist - but that's how the game works.
Difference is Johnson hasn't ever really wanted to be PM. He's always wanted to have been PM. I don't think he ever really realised that himself.
He'll be very disappointed that he hasn't realised that, but you, someone who doesn't even know him, has worked it out with such certainty.
Biffer
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Ovals wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:25 am
Biffer wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 am
Ovals wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:00 am

The guy is a total arse and a waste of space - he is most definitely a politician though - that's how he became leader of the Tories.

And his position gives him power - he doesn't have to do all the work - as long as those doing it, do what he wants - he's shown he'll get shot of those that don't toe his line - to the extent he'll even have them removed from the party. Despite all his flaws, and they are plentiful, he has still managed to get the top job and get a landslide election win - that's how politicians work. He may be an total opportunist - but that's how the game works.
Difference is Johnson hasn't ever really wanted to be PM. He's always wanted to have been PM. I don't think he ever really realised that himself.
He'll be very disappointed that he hasn't realised that, but you, someone who doesn't even know him, has worked it out with such certainty.
Ah, ok. You’re allowed an opinion on him but I’m not. I’d hadn’t realised that was the case.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Rinkals
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Ovals wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:25 am
Biffer wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 am
Ovals wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:00 am

The guy is a total arse and a waste of space - he is most definitely a politician though - that's how he became leader of the Tories.

And his position gives him power - he doesn't have to do all the work - as long as those doing it, do what he wants - he's shown he'll get shot of those that don't toe his line - to the extent he'll even have them removed from the party. Despite all his flaws, and they are plentiful, he has still managed to get the top job and get a landslide election win - that's how politicians work. He may be an total opportunist - but that's how the game works.
Difference is Johnson hasn't ever really wanted to be PM. He's always wanted to have been PM. I don't think he ever really realised that himself.
He'll be very disappointed that he hasn't realised that, but you, someone who doesn't even know him, has worked it out with such certainty.
I think that we've all seen enough of Boris as both a Television Personality in HIGNFY and divers other doccies to be able to make an assessment of his character without the need to know him personally.
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Saint
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First published data from Scotland comparing efficacy of Pfizer and AZ in the real world. By the 4th week after vaccination, Pfizer reduced hospitalisations for Covid by 84%. For AstraZeneca, hospitalisations were reduced by 94%. Stunningly good numbers
dpedin
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Saint wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:53 am First published data from Scotland comparing efficacy of Pfizer and AZ in the real world. By the 4th week after vaccination, Pfizer reduced hospitalisations for Covid by 84%. For AstraZeneca, hospitalisations were reduced by 94%. Stunningly good numbers
Brilliant news! Large study in Scotland and English one coming shortly. Fingers crossed no new variant come along and feck this up! Presents an even stronger case for stricter border controls to stop us importing new variants whilst vaccination programme steams ahead.
Glaston
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fishfoodie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:39 pm
Ovals wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:16 pm
I think you underestimate a politician's thirst for power.
Since when was he a politician ?

He's a shit journo; with a 3rd class degree* in classics; who has been repeatedly fired for lying; & who is infamously lazy.

He doesn't have a thirst for power; he had a thirst for position. Power requires actual effort, that I don't think he's capable of; position only required him to go thru a series of, lesser positions; which ultimately led him to #10.

Any fucking cabbage can become UK PM; as long as they first get to the Leadership of the Tory Party.

* he would have had, if his daddy wasn't a Politician
Err do you actually have any PROOF of this?

Stanley Johnson worked for the World Bank and then EC.
Only Parliament election he stood for, he lost and that was in 2005
and one term as MEP
If you are going to spout , at least give it some semblance of truth.



btw when did we have Duncan Smith as PM? or Hague or Howard?
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Margin__Walker
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Saint wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:53 am First published data from Scotland comparing efficacy of Pfizer and AZ in the real world. By the 4th week after vaccination, Pfizer reduced hospitalisations for Covid by 84%. For AstraZeneca, hospitalisations were reduced by 94%. Stunningly good numbers
So you're telling us it's not quasi ineffective? Someone should probably tell Macron.
Biffer
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dpedin wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:06 am
Saint wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:53 am First published data from Scotland comparing efficacy of Pfizer and AZ in the real world. By the 4th week after vaccination, Pfizer reduced hospitalisations for Covid by 84%. For AstraZeneca, hospitalisations were reduced by 94%. Stunningly good numbers
Brilliant news! Large study in Scotland and English one coming shortly. Fingers crossed no new variant come along and feck this up! Presents an even stronger case for stricter border controls to stop us importing new variants whilst vaccination programme steams ahead.
Might be good news to come on the variant front as well

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/alumni/new ... ccine.aspx
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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