Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Hang on are you suggesting that the NHS aren’t doing knee ops? Well that blows IH’s argument out of the water

Where did I claim that?

You did, to such a significant level (that you're yet to quantify) that apparently there are a large enough number free beds available to warrant a NHS pay rise of 1%.

That is so much shite, I maintained that the NHS was cancelling you asked me to prove it, frankly it’s on you to disprove my statement rather than me to prove it! You might want to look at today’s DT there is an article stating the NHS has a backlog of 6 million patients due to the pandemic...

Didn't you say more specifically say hospitals had been emptied of all the people normally recovering from operations? That's not the same as effecting some cancellations, indeed it's dramatically a different thing

[SaintK]

Hang on are you suggesting that the NHS aren’t doing knee ops? Well that blows IH’s argument out of the water

Where did I claim that?

You did, to such a significant level (that you're yet to quantify) that apparently there are a large enough number free beds available to warrant a NHS pay rise of 1%.

That is so much shite, I maintained that the NHS was cancelling you asked me to prove it, frankly it’s on you to disprove my statement rather than me to prove it! You might want to look at today’s DT there is an article stating the NHS has a backlog of 6 million patients due to the pandemic...

Ahh! The organ of truth and accuracy so it must be correct To be honest I'm surprised the Torygraph found room for anything other than the shite it is publishing about the Royals

[Sandstorm]

Didn't you say more specifically say hospitals had been emptied of all the people normally recovering from operations? That's not the same as effecting some cancellations, indeed it's dramatically a different thing

As far as OS is reporting, knee and hip surgeons around the country are sitting on their golf carts while their scrub nurses are all at home playing Foxy Bingo.

[Insane_Homer]

You might want to look at today’s DT there is an article stating the NHS has a backlog of 6 million patients due to the pandemic...

This one?

Waiting lists were rising in the NHS before the pandemic with hospitals already struggling to meet demands. In 2016, the total waiting list was 3.5 million but this had risen to more than 4.3 million by the end of 2019

“Average waiting times for elective treatment have fallen by 40 per cent since July and we will continue to work with the NHS to ensure all patients receive the best quality care as quickly as possible.”

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Elective surgeries are a huge concern, and that the average waiting time has come down doesn't have to mean that's good news, there are bad reasons that number could have come down. But that there's such a backlog waiting for NHS patients speaks to the importance of getting the pandemic under control, trying to create some sort of breather for the NHS (and feck knows how you do that, it's not like they can all go off on hols) and then set about the backlog. And set about the backlog with a service that's been cut of investment funding for over a decade meaning the equipment and procedures are often more expensive, and slower than might have proved the case

[Sandstorm]

Elective surgeries are a huge concern, and that the average waiting time has come down doesn't have to mean that's good news, there are bad reasons that number could have come down. But that there's such a backlog waiting for NHS patients speaks to the importance of getting the pandemic under control, trying to create some sort of breather for the NHS (and feck knows how you do that, it's not like they can all go off on hols) and then set about the backlog. And set about the backlog with a service that's been cut of investment funding for over a decade meaning the equipment and procedures are often more expensive, and slower than might have proved the case

Maybe with 125k extra dead people this will free up a few more beds for elective surgeries?

Seriously you're bang on! NHS has been underfunded and poorly managed for decades and 12 months under Covid hasn't made it a whole lot worse. It's already a shit-show.

The Brexit Factor is going to hit NHS nursing even harder!

[Insane_Homer]

For reference, 2.5 million people were waiting for hospital treatment in 2010. So the Tories have managed to add 1.8 million to that before the pandemic, the pandemic possibly, by the article, 1.7 million.



Old man angrily waves fist at pandemic on behalf of golf buddies who are too tight to go private.

[Openside]

That is so much shite, I maintained that the NHS was cancelling you asked me to prove it, frankly it’s on you to disprove my statement rather than me to prove it!

No, it's up to you to provide proof of your claim. Clearly you can't.

You are batshit if you don't think the NHS has cancelled routine operations due to the pandemic. I haven't worked out how to post articles so that doesn't mean they aren't there. I notice you have sidestepped my suggestion you read todays DT detailing a 6 million patient backlog...


Guardian Article.

Mass cancellations of NHS operations inevitable this winter, say doctors
This article is more than 4 months old
Exclusive: NHS England criticised for ordering ‘near-normal’ non-Covid care during pandemic
Coronavirus – latest updates
See all our coronavirus coverage
Denis Campbell and Ben Quinn
Fri 23 Oct 2020 16.23 BST Last modified on Sat 24 Oct 2020 04.37 BST

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A Covid-19 ward at a hospital in Merseyside
A Covid-19 ward at a hospital in Merseyside. The BMA says hospitals have too few beds and staff to maintain surgery and diagnostic testing for non-Covid illnesses during the pandemic Photograph: Peter Byrne/PA
Mass cancellations of routine operations in England are inevitable this autumn and winter despite an NHS edict that hospitals must not again disrupt normal care, doctors’ leaders have said.

Organisations representing frontline doctors, including the British Medical Association (BMA), also criticised NHS England for ordering hospitals to provide “near normal” levels of non-Covid care in the second wave of the pandemic, and demanded that fines for failing to meet targets be scrapped.

An influx of Covid-19 patients has led to planned operations being cancelled or postponed in at least seven hospital trusts. On Friday three hospital trusts in South Yorkshire postponed non-urgent surgery, a day after Nottingham University hospitals did the same.

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Sources said the hospitals in Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley were cancelling “small numbers” of elective operations and outpatient appointments involving non-urgent conditions.

“Things are very, very difficult at the moment, very challenging at the moment. It feels like a juggling act every day,” said one official in the South Yorkshire NHS. “The problem is both the growing numbers of patients coming into hospital with Covid and the numbers of staff we have off sick due to Covid, either because they are ill themselves or because someone in their household has symptoms, so they are isolating.”

In a memo to staff seen by the Guardian, Rotherham hospital’s chief operating officer, George Briggs, said: “We have taken the decision to cancel all electives apart from urgent and cancer cases.” He said staff sickness due to Covid-19 had “hit a record high over the last few days”.


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NHS national leaders have decreed that normal care should continue. There is growing evidence that widespread suspension of screening services, diagnostic testing and treatment in the spring left hundreds of thousands of patients unable to access care for cancer, heart disease and other serious illnesses. Knee and hip replacements, cataract surgery and other operations were cancelled.

As a result, some experts have estimated that tens of thousands of people could die prematurely of cancer alone. In June the NHS waiting list was projected to hit 10 million by the end of the year.

Three years ago, without a pandemic but faced with a winter health crisis including an intense strain of flu and bad weather, non-urgent surgery was postponed across the country.

Over the past week, coronavirus has led to the hospitalisation of nearly 1,000 people a day on average across the UK. The number of Covid patients treated in hospital in Liverpool surpassed the peak of the first wave.

The BMA, which represents about 70% of Britain’s 240,000 doctors, says hospitals have too few beds and staff to maintain surgery and diagnostic testing for non-Covid illness while the second wave is unfolding.

[Openside]

Where did I claim that?

You did, to such a significant level (that you're yet to quantify) that apparently there are a large enough number free beds available to warrant a NHS pay rise of 1%.

That is so much shite, I maintained that the NHS was cancelling you asked me to prove it, frankly it’s on you to disprove my statement rather than me to prove it! You might want to look at today’s DT there is an article stating the NHS has a backlog of 6 million patients due to the pandemic...

Didn't you say more specifically say hospitals had been emptied of all the people normally recovering from operations? That's not the same as effecting some cancellations, indeed it's dramatically a different thing

That is sophistry what I meant is there are no people in hospital recovering from operations so the effect is the hospital has been emptied of its usual clientele.

I think it is hugely amusing that all you people don't think this is going to be a massive problem in months /years to come. I guess we will just have to sit tight and see which one of us is correct.

[Openside]

For reference, 2.5 million people were waiting for hospital treatment in 2010. So the Tories have managed to add 1.8 million to that before the pandemic, the pandemic possibly, by the article, 1.7 million.



Old man angrily waves fist at pandemic on behalf of golf buddies who are too tight to go private.

What a twat you are, you are so entrenched in your prejudice you have decided that the friends/family I know with cancelled procedures are all golf buddies too tight to go private (which were also cancelled during the first lockdown) you know nothing about me or what these procedures are.

I disagree with most of the shit you post but I didn't think you would stoop to muttonmong levels of suggesting that people who could afford to go private(another entrenched assumption) are leeching off the NHS frankly that is offensive!!

[Insane_Homer]

Old man angrily waves fist at internet

[Openside]

Old man angrily waves fist at internet

Dribbling Moron uses irrelevant soundbite to cover the fact he is talking bollocks.

[Insane_Homer]

suggestion you read todays DT detailing a 6 million patient backlog...

Yes, easily debunked your claim this morning. ~1.7 Million and less than the actual 1.8 million added since the Tories took over. Try and keep up old man.

[Insane_Homer]

You are batshit if you don't think the NHS has cancelled routine operations due to the pandemic.

Where did I say that? you did, so far we've established that it could be anywhere between 3 (3 not 3 million) and 6 million. I was simply asking if there was a more precise figure and then you went apeshit at the idea of me asking you to backup your claim.

[Insane_Homer]

frankly that is offensive!!

If I could retort with a few choice words collected from an esteemed fellow tough guy boardie.

Alright snowflake, grow a backbone, stop being a massive fanny, whiny thin skinned princess twat.

[Openside]

You are batshit if you don't think the NHS has cancelled routine operations due to the pandemic.

Where did I say that? you did, so far we've established that it could be anywhere between 3 (3 not 3 million) and 6 million. I was simply asking if there was a more precise figure and then you went apeshit at the idea of me asking you to backup your claim.

The way you phrased it made it seem that you refuted my claim, if you merely were seeking the scale of the disaster, you went about it a strange way. As for apesjit? I don’t think so, I was merely incredulous that you were doubting a fact in the public domain. As for old man I doubt I am more than 10 years older than you. Less I suspect...

[Insane_Homer]

The way you phrased it made it seem that you refuted my claim

How many was that?

Yup, I can clearly see how that confused you

[Openside]

frankly that is offensive!!

If I could retort with a few choice words collected from an esteemed fellow tough guy boardie.

Alright snowflake, grow a backbone, stop being a massive fanny, whiny thin skinned princess twat.

typical thick Saffa, I don’t give a shit what you think of me,. You should just be grateful your adopted homeland has an NHS - what I find offensive is your view that ‘well off’ people are effectively stealing services from the NHS when there is a good chance they have contributed way more than average for their provision.

[Insane_Homer]

your view that ‘well off’ people are effectively stealing services from the NHS

Where did I say that?

You should just be grateful your adopted homeland has an NHS

Again, not sure why you think I'm not. I'm very grateful, which is why I think NHS staff deserve more than a 1% pay increase. It's one of primary reasons I don't vote Tory.

[Openside]

your view that ‘well off’ people are effectively stealing services from the NHS

Where did I say that?

To paraphrase “ old man waves fist at the pandemic on behalf of golf buddies too tight to go private.”

At this point you had been lumped in with muttonmong and his leaching comments...

[Openside]

your view that ‘well off’ people are effectively stealing services from the NHS

Where did I say that?

You should just be grateful your adopted homeland has an NHS

Again, not sure why you think I'm not. I'm very grateful, which is why I think NHS staff deserve more than a 1% pay increase.

Almost Everyone deserves more than a 1% pay increase I just don’t feel that with millions out of work and people losing businesses left right and centre to protect the NHS it isn’t the time to splash the cash. It isn’t a particularly controversial opinion, in fact I would argue it is the majority one.

[Insane_Homer]

To paraphrase “ old man waves fist at the pandemic on behalf of golf buddies too tight to go private.”

At this point you had been lumped in with muttonmong and his leaching comments...

You got 'well off' and 'stealing' from that?

It says a lot more about you than it does me if that's the sort of assumptions and conclusions you draw from that statement, which was, by the way, a continuation of Sandstorm's (not Muttons) jesty jape of a joke that clear hit a nerve.

Almost Everyone deserves more than a 1% pay increase I just don’t feel that with millions out of work and people losing businesses left right and centre to protect the NHS it isn’t the time to splash the cash. It isn’t a particularly controversial opinion, in fact I would argue it is the majority one.

oh no! I have an opinion that's contrary to the majority and it makes me..... ungrateful ???

[Openside]

To paraphrase “ old man waves fist at the pandemic on behalf of golf buddies too tight to go private.”

At this point you had been lumped in with muttonmong and his leaching comments...

You got 'well off' and 'stealing' from that?

It says a lot more about you than it does me if that's the sort of assumptions and conclusions you draw from that statement, which was, by the way, a continuation of Sandstorm's (not Muttons) jesty jape of a joke that clear hit a nerve.

Almost Everyone deserves more than a 1% pay increase I just don’t feel that with millions out of work and people losing businesses left right and centre to protect the NHS it isn’t the time to splash the cash. It isn’t a particularly controversial opinion, in fact I would argue it is the majority one.

oh no! I have an opinion that's contrary to the majority and it makes me..... ungrateful ???

I haven’t suggested you are ungrateful I have merely stated you should be grateful.

My comments were nothing to do with sandstorms ‘joke’ (which didn’t strike a nerve in fact it was moderately amusing) and everything to do with you and mutton mong.

[Openside]

Anyhoo have a good day I am off to split logs

[Insane_Homer]

I haven’t suggested you are ungrateful I have merely stated you should be grateful.

and if I wasn't grateful, that would make me... a Tory?

[Insane_Homer]

Anyhoo have a good day I am off to split logs

I WIN!



(again)

[Insane_Homer]

My comments were nothing to do with sandstorms ‘joke’ (which didn’t strike a nerve in fact it was moderately amusing) and everything to do with you and mutton mong.

Confused old man attributes the statements of one poster to another, so there! (and took offence at a post that neither quoted or mentioned him directly )

All inspired by the Simpsons

[SaintK]

More incompetent bollocks from Williamson's department. No 10 has to "clarify" what the Children's Minister was saying in her broadcast rounds this morning!!!

Oh dear. Ministerial slap down from No 10.
Children's minister Vicky Ford said if kids get lateral flow test positive, then PCR negative, they CAN’T go back to school
That is wrong, No 10 makes clear. Lateral flow test positive then PCR negative means kids CAN go back to school

[Insane_Homer]

The same Nadine that gave her daughter a 50% pay increase in 2013....

and was forced to pay back claimed £3000 of personal travel expenses

who claimed she'd "stop claiming parliamentary expenses"

but started again in 2016

Who paid £50,000 of allowances to a close friend

[SaintK]

The rowing back has started. The polls and focus groups not looking good on this one?

No 10 refused to rule out NHS staff in England being given a one-off bonus in addition to their proposed 1% pay rise. The prime minister’s spokesman defended the planned pay rise - but repeatedly refused to rule out staff being topped up with a bonus outside the pay review process.

[Insane_Homer]

The rowing back has started. The polls and focus groups not looking good on this one?

No 10 refused to rule out NHS staff in England being given a one-off bonus in addition to their proposed 1% pay rise. The prime minister’s spokesman defended the planned pay rise - but repeatedly refused to rule out staff being topped up with a bonus outside the pay review process.

Fuck that was fast! At 2:45pm this afternoon the majority opinion was, in fact, not that

Almost Everyone deserves more than a 1% pay increase I just don’t feel that with millions out of work and people losing businesses left right and centre to protect the NHS it isn’t the time to splash the cash. It isn’t a particularly controversial opinion, in fact I would argue it is the majority one.

[ASMO]

The rowing back has started. The polls and focus groups not looking good on this one?

No 10 refused to rule out NHS staff in England being given a one-off bonus in addition to their proposed 1% pay rise. The prime minister’s spokesman defended the planned pay rise - but repeatedly refused to rule out staff being topped up with a bonus outside the pay review process.

It is how they will get around the pay rise row without admitting they got it wrong, technically it is not a payrise, it is a one off payment and they can badge it to make themselves look good, so something like "For all the hard work and effort you put into caring for people during the covid crisis" Virtue signalling at its very best.

[Openside]

Anyhoo have a good day I am off to split logs

I WIN!



(again)

Ok I think I have worked out why you think I am an old man...it’s because you are clearly a child

[Mahoney]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... 2#t=04m02s

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The one of bonus would be doing it on the cheap, it doesn't build into long term salary and pension costs, and they can account for it quite differently to claim various points on controlling the spend. It's the Gordon Brown school of chancellory, it's not spending or borrowing if you call it something else sort of thing. But mostly it'll be it doesn't put the on hook for longer term spending commitments and limits the claim from other public sector workers.

They've still got a problem though because whilst they don't have any money they could be taxing certain people/groups and they've found billions to spaff up the wall when it's suited them. And one of the reasons they've got less money is Brexit, which just about the entire cabinet was in favour of, whether because they liked Brexit itself or they liked what it could do for their career. So again they can to a large extent do one when claiming they've not got the money, that's their fault and their job to fix

[Rhubarb & Custard]

More incompetent bollocks from Williamson's department. No 10 has to "clarify" what the Children's Minister was saying in her broadcast rounds this morning!!!

Oh dear. Ministerial slap down from No 10.
Children's minister Vicky Ford said if kids get lateral flow test positive, then PCR negative, they CAN’T go back to school
That is wrong, No 10 makes clear. Lateral flow test positive then PCR negative means kids CAN go back to school

She got pushed on a subject she wasn't sure about and tried to bluff her way out using the line in her head that sounded like it was reinforcing what she'd just said, as soon as she said it one was left thinking that's not going to survive any longer than the position on whether a Scotch Egg is a meal. No reason this is an area you'd expect her to be paying attention to her brief on of course, and probably nobody could have foreseen such a question

[Insane_Homer]

Ok I think I have worked out why you think I am an old man...it’s because you are clearly a child

You outed yourself, I made a post referencing an old man, you assumed it was about you...

[Ymx]

Well, maybe as you posted this.

My comments were nothing to do with sandstorms ‘joke’ (which didn’t strike a nerve in fact it was moderately amusing) and everything to do with you and mutton mong.

Confused old man attributes the statements of one poster to another, so there! (and took offence at a post that neither quoted or mentioned him directly )

All inspired by the Simpsons

[Insane_Homer]

Well, maybe as you posted this.

Try and keep up. That's not the old man post he got 'offended' by.

[Insane_Homer]

...suggesting that people who could afford to go private(another entrenched assumption)...

I should think a reasonably significant majority of those ex pats are financially solvent and at the slightest whiff of a medical issue are on the plane back to the UK and going Private No?

You'd be wrong. A report in the Economist last year said the biggest drain on public health care provision in Andalucia was retired and decrepit British expats

"flying back to the UK at the slightest whiff of a medical issue" what sort of fantasy land do you live in

Do you have a link to that. ?

Just because my experiences are not the same as yours no need to get all sniffy. All the people I know that live in Spain do exactly that, although not sure why Spanish hospitals seem better than ours without them spending ridiculous sums on them)

Apologies, I have no idea where that entrenched assumption came from...