Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[JM2K6]

Daly's not been playing on the wing. How's Watson?

[Yr Alban]

Daly's not been playing on the wing. How's Watson?

Beg his pardon. Watson made 15 and missed 7 (68%).

[JM2K6]

Daly's not been playing on the wing. How's Watson?

Beg his pardon. Watson made 15 and missed 7 (68%).

Cheers!

[FalseBayFC]

Would love to see a Ben Youngs, Finn Russell starting half combo. Also AWJ who is a 6N legend but now just an aging poor man's Martin Johnson.

[Uncle fester]

Which bolters has Gatland taken before? Aside from giving his welsh squad members some experience, I mean.

Can't remember for certain but wasn't Sinkler something of a bolter 4 years ago? Could have sworn Coles was still England no 1 at the time.

[JM2K6]

Which bolters has Gatland taken before? Aside from giving his welsh squad members some experience, I mean.

Can't remember for certain but wasn't Sinkler something of a bolter 4 years ago? Could have sworn Coles was still England no 1 at the time.

He was playing a lot of minutes for England, and starting occasionally iirc.

Simmonds has like 4 caps and hasn't been in the squad for years.

[Slick]

Which bolters has Gatland taken before? Aside from giving his welsh squad members some experience, I mean.

Can't remember for certain but wasn't Sinkler something of a bolter 4 years ago? Could have sworn Coles was still England no 1 at the time.

He was playing a lot of minutes for England, and starting occasionally iirc.

Simmonds has like 4 caps and hasn't been in the squad for years.

Sinkler only had 8 caps

[JM2K6]

Can't remember for certain but wasn't Sinkler something of a bolter 4 years ago? Could have sworn Coles was still England no 1 at the time.

He was playing a lot of minutes for England, and starting occasionally iirc.

Simmonds has like 4 caps and hasn't been in the squad for years.

Sinkler only had 8 caps

So twice as many, and, crucially, was playing in every match for England (and having huge impact) when he got the call up...

Simmonds getting selected would be like Lozowski or Shields getting one. Players who've been outside the international arena for ages, who aren't proven internationals either.

[Slick]

He was playing a lot of minutes for England, and starting occasionally iirc.

Simmonds has like 4 caps and hasn't been in the squad for years.

Sinkler only had 8 caps

So twice as many, and, crucially, was playing in every match for England (and having huge impact) when he got the call up...

Simmonds getting selected would be like Lozowski or Shields getting one. Players who've been outside the international arena for ages, who aren't proven internationals either.

Yeah, or 4 more.

[JM2K6]

Sinkler only had 8 caps

So twice as many, and, crucially, was playing in every match for England (and having huge impact) when he got the call up...

Simmonds getting selected would be like Lozowski or Shields getting one. Players who've been outside the international arena for ages, who aren't proven internationals either.

Yeah, or 4 more.

Right. 8 caps from (I think) the previous 8 matches for a high-flying England team, including wins over South Africa and Australia.

As opposed to 4 caps 3 years ago.

Sinckler was a brave choice but he was an active international player making waves. That's all I'm saying. Quite a few of England's "finishers" got callups because of that.

[Kawazaki]

He was playing a lot of minutes for England, and starting occasionally iirc.

Simmonds has like 4 caps and hasn't been in the squad for years.

Sinkler only had 8 caps

So twice as many, and, crucially, was playing in every match for England (and having huge impact) when he got the call up...

Simmonds getting selected would be like Lozowski or Shields getting one. Players who've been outside the international arena for ages, who aren't proven internationals either.

It would only be the same as Lozowski or Shields getting selected if Lozowski or Shields had been scoring twice as many tries as their peers for the last 3 years, plus helping win the premiership and the european cup. Apart from that, yeah, just the same!

[JM2K6]

Sinkler only had 8 caps

So twice as many, and, crucially, was playing in every match for England (and having huge impact) when he got the call up...

Simmonds getting selected would be like Lozowski or Shields getting one. Players who've been outside the international arena for ages, who aren't proven internationals either.

It would only be the same as Lozowski or Shields getting selected if Lozowski or Shields had been scoring twice as many tries as their peers for the last 3 years, plus helping win the premiership and the european cup. Apart from that, yeah, just the same!

We are talking purely in terms of whether they'd be considered bolters. It's mad to try and argue that selecting someone who has a handful of sub appearances years ago is the same as selecting someone getting lots of game time now. It's not a comment on quality. I'd love Simmonds to get a call up, but he'd definitely be a bolter.

[Slick]

So twice as many, and, crucially, was playing in every match for England (and having huge impact) when he got the call up...

Simmonds getting selected would be like Lozowski or Shields getting one. Players who've been outside the international arena for ages, who aren't proven internationals either.

Yeah, or 4 more.

Right. 8 caps from (I think) the previous 8 matches for a high-flying England team, including wins over South Africa and Australia.

As opposed to 4 caps 3 years ago.

Sinckler was a brave choice but he was an active international player making waves. That's all I'm saying. Quite a few of England's "finishers" got callups because of that.

You’re funny

[Madness]

With the tour sort of confirmed but with SA not getting Covid much under control will Gatland be forced to take a much larger squad as the option to fly in injury replacements may be severely limited. In that case I think we could be looking at a Woodward 05 tour size, which to be fair was not that much bigger than 17. (44 v 41)

So here's my COVID sized squad - assumes some players getting fit and players who can play in different positions more likely to be picked than single position players and as the thread title states some just to wind people up!

LH prop
Mako
Sutherland
Jones
Marler

Hooker
George
LCD
Owens
Mcinally

TH prop
Furlong
Sinckler
Porter
Stuart

Locks
Itoje
Ryan
AWJ
Launchbury
Lawes

Back row
Curry
Underhill
Faletau
Tipuric
Watson
Henderson
Billy
Doris
Beirne

SH
Murray
Youngs
Price
Williams

FH
Russell
Farrell
Biggar

Centres
Henshaw
North
Tuilagi
Slade
Ringrose
Davies

Back 3
Hogg
Williams
Watson
May
Nowell
Rees Zammit
Van der Merwe
Keenan

[Margin__Walker]

I do think Simmonds has an outside shot. Exeter having a good Champions Cup knock out run would help. But I do agree with JM, that it wouldn't be comparable to the Sinkler call up last time. Simmonds is completely in the international wilderness, where as Sinkler was very much involved at the time.

[Kawazaki]

That squad is unmanageable. They'll only be playing about 8 games including 3 tests. Smarter play would be to pick a smaller squad with a reserve bubble in case of injuries.

Squad of 36 should be enough.

3x front rows - 9 players
2x second rows - 4 players
2x back rows - 6 players
2x hybrid back-5 - 2 players

21 forwards

3x scrumhalves - 3 players
2x flyhalves - 2 players
4x centres - 4 players
2x back-3 players - 6 players

15 backs

[Madness]

That squad is unmanageable. They'll only be playing about 8 games including 3 tests. Smarter play would be to pick a smaller squad with a reserve bubble in case of injuries.

Squad of 36 should be enough.

3x front rows - 9 players
2x second rows - 4 players
2x back rows - 6 players
2x hybrid back-5 - 2 players

21 forwards

3x scrumhalves - 3 players
2x flyhalves - 2 players
4x centres - 4 players
2x back-3 players - 6 players

15 backs

Gatland took 41 players to NZ, he's not going to take a much smaller squad to a COVID infested SA!

[Kawazaki]

That squad is unmanageable. They'll only be playing about 8 games including 3 tests. Smarter play would be to pick a smaller squad with a reserve bubble in case of injuries.

Squad of 36 should be enough.

3x front rows - 9 players
2x second rows - 4 players
2x back rows - 6 players
2x hybrid back-5 - 2 players

21 forwards

3x scrumhalves - 3 players
2x flyhalves - 2 players
4x centres - 4 players
2x back-3 players - 6 players

15 backs

Gatland took 41 players to NZ, he's not going to take a much smaller squad to a COVID infested SA!

It's a much smaller tour.

[dkm57]

2 fly halfs isn't enough you just know the Boks are going to target them and it'll be attritioanl. I'd take Ford, Russell, Sexton and Biggar, Farrell is a 12.

[Madness]

That squad is unmanageable. They'll only be playing about 8 games including 3 tests. Smarter play would be to pick a smaller squad with a reserve bubble in case of injuries.

Squad of 36 should be enough.

3x front rows - 9 players
2x second rows - 4 players
2x back rows - 6 players
2x hybrid back-5 - 2 players

21 forwards

3x scrumhalves - 3 players
2x flyhalves - 2 players
4x centres - 4 players
2x back-3 players - 6 players

15 backs

Gatland took 41 players to NZ, he's not going to take a much smaller squad to a COVID infested SA!

It's a much smaller tour.

One less game! It'll be a big squad

[Madness]

2 fly halfs isn't enough you just know the Boks are going to target them and it'll be attritioanl. I'd take Ford, Russell, Sexton and Biggar, Farrell is a 12.

Possibly but Russell, Biggar, Farrell and then back up options with Hogg and Slade although I wouldn't want either of them in a test!

[Biffer]

That squad is unmanageable. They'll only be playing about 8 games including 3 tests. Smarter play would be to pick a smaller squad with a reserve bubble in case of injuries.

Squad of 36 should be enough.

3x front rows - 9 players
2x second rows - 4 players
2x back rows - 6 players
2x hybrid back-5 - 2 players

21 forwards

3x scrumhalves - 3 players
2x flyhalves - 2 players
4x centres - 4 players
2x back-3 players - 6 players

15 backs

No chance. Asking all of your props to play three games in ten or eleven days is a recipe for disaster.

[Kawazaki]

Gatland took 41 players to NZ, he's not going to take a much smaller squad to a COVID infested SA!

It's a much smaller tour.

One less game! It'll be a big squad

I think a big squad would be a mistake.

[Kawazaki]

That squad is unmanageable. They'll only be playing about 8 games including 3 tests. Smarter play would be to pick a smaller squad with a reserve bubble in case of injuries.

Squad of 36 should be enough.

3x front rows - 9 players
2x second rows - 4 players
2x back rows - 6 players
2x hybrid back-5 - 2 players

21 forwards

3x scrumhalves - 3 players
2x flyhalves - 2 players
4x centres - 4 players
2x back-3 players - 6 players

15 backs

No chance. Asking all of your props to play three games in ten or eleven days is a recipe for disaster.

How do you work that out?!

[Yr Alban]

It's a much smaller tour.

One less game! It'll be a big squad

I think a big squad would be a mistake.

I think there’s a strong argument that there should be backups on the plane to avoid flying out any injury replacements.

[Biffer]

That squad is unmanageable. They'll only be playing about 8 games including 3 tests. Smarter play would be to pick a smaller squad with a reserve bubble in case of injuries.

Squad of 36 should be enough.

3x front rows - 9 players
2x second rows - 4 players
2x back rows - 6 players
2x hybrid back-5 - 2 players

21 forwards

3x scrumhalves - 3 players
2x flyhalves - 2 players
4x centres - 4 players
2x back-3 players - 6 players

15 backs

No chance. Asking all of your props to play three games in ten or eleven days is a recipe for disaster.

How do you work that out?!

Wednesday Saturday Wednesday Saturday
11 days

Each game needs two front rows in each position. And universally nowadays both play a significant part, at least 20, more usually 30 minutes

So you're asking each position to do 4 starts and 4 subs in eleven days across 3 players. Two of the players play three games, one of them gets a game off.

[Hal Jordan]

I don't think it matters who goes. Whoever Gatland selects, the team nationalities will be 10 Welshmen, 3 Irish, 2 English and a Scottish waterboy.

[Biffer]

Another point - no Itoje, George, Vuniploas in my squad. First few England games showed how undercooked they are playing in the championship. You can’t use a Lions tour to play yourself into form.

Affects forwards more imo, so Farrell still in the mix.

[Margin__Walker]

The Sarries lads hadn't been playing in the championship. The 6N was their pre season.

Itoje is going. Possibly Farrell too as a known quantity.

The others are struggling.

[Kawazaki]

Another point - no Itoje, George, Vuniploas in my squad. First few England games showed how undercooked they are playing in the championship. You can’t use a Lions tour to play yourself into form.

Affects forwards more imo, so Farrell still in the mix.

I'll have a bet with you that Itoje gets in the Lions squad. And gets in the first test starting XV.

[Biffer]

Another point - no Itoje, George, Vuniploas in my squad. First few England games showed how undercooked they are playing in the championship. You can’t use a Lions tour to play yourself into form.

Affects forwards more imo, so Farrell still in the mix.

I'll have a bet with you that Itoje gets in the Lions squad. And gets in the first test starting XV.

I'm not saying what will happen, that's my opinion on what should happen. Itoje will probably be in the squad

[Jock42]

Not dominant though....

[Slick]

Not dominant though....

That’s an outrageous stat

Talking of which, has anyone heard an update on Frillage?

[Jock42]

Not dominant though....

That’s an outrageous stat

Talking of which, has anyone heard an update on Frillage?

HP says he's still alive and assumes he's doing well.

[Slick]

Not dominant though....

That’s an outrageous stat

Talking of which, has anyone heard an update on Frillage?

HP says he's still alive and assumes he's doing well.

That’s good, thanks. I’ll try him again

[Caley_Red]

That’s an outrageous stat

Talking of which, has anyone heard an update on Frillage?

HP says he's still alive and assumes he's doing well.

That’s good, thanks. I’ll try him again

Keep us up to date on that please.

[SaintK]

Gatland's proposed coaching tean is falling apart
Farrell (defence) staying in Ireland
Borthwick (forwards) staying with Leicester
Rowntree(scrum) staying at home for family reasons

Leaving just Townsend (attack) and Jenkins (kicking) from the original coaching line up
Should imagine Gatland is busy on the phone this weekend as he was due to publicly confirm the coaches this week.

[Lobby]

Gatland's proposed coaching tean is falling apart
Farrell (defence) staying in Ireland
Borthwick (forwards) staying with Leicester
Rowntree(scrum) staying at home for family reasons

Leaving just Townsend (attack) and Jenkins (kicking) from the original coaching line up
Should imagine Gatland is busy on the phone this weekend as he was due to publicly confirm the coaches this week.

I think he should be bold, and look for some new coaches who can bring valuable experience in their particular fields, but haven't been sullied by too much international exposure, such as:

Dan Parks (attack)
Xavier Garbajosa (defence)
Martin Williams (kicking)
Johnny May (scrum)
Austin Healy (forwards)

[SaintK]

Gatland's proposed coaching tean is falling apart
Farrell (defence) staying in Ireland
Borthwick (forwards) staying with Leicester
Rowntree(scrum) staying at home for family reasons

Leaving just Townsend (attack) and Jenkins (kicking) from the original coaching line up
Should imagine Gatland is busy on the phone this weekend as he was due to publicly confirm the coaches this week.

I think he should be bold, and look for some new coaches who can bring valuable experience in their particular fields, but haven't been sullied by too much international exposure, such as:

Dan Parks (attack)
Xavier Garbajosa (defence)
Martin Williams (kicking)
Johnny May (scrum)
Austin Healy (forwards)

[sorCrer]

If I was you lads, I'd call in sick...

https://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/sprin ... d1d8923784