So, coronavirus...

[Amethyst]

One time use.

One time use can't be afforded by most. Wearing a cheap, proper visor = effective way of reducing spread of virus and cost-effective; wearing face mask/cloth = preparing for a beauty contest hoping you don't get infected/ could be expensive and out of reach for many. No-brainer. Use a proper, cheap visor

You asked why it wasn't necessary to decontaminate a mask. If you're washing a reusable mask properly you're effectively decontaminating it, this doesn't negate decontaminating a visor.

If people are wearing masks visors aren't necessary. If you want to cut about in one thats up to you.

It's easier and faster to decontaminate a visor than a cloth mask. Comprehendo? All I'm saying is that a visor is a better option for a lot of obvious reasons mentioned. But if a cloth mask floats your boat....

[Raggs]

One time use can't be afforded by most. Wearing a cheap, proper visor = effective way of reducing spread of virus and cost-effective; wearing face mask/cloth = preparing for a beauty contest hoping you don't get infected/ could be expensive and out of reach for many. No-brainer. Use a proper, cheap visor

You asked why it wasn't necessary to decontaminate a mask. If you're washing a reusable mask properly you're effectively decontaminating it, this doesn't negate decontaminating a visor.

If people are wearing masks visors aren't necessary. If you want to cut about in one thats up to you.

It's easier and faster to decontaminate a visor than a cloth mask. Comprehendo? All I'm saying is that a visor is a better option for a lot of obvious reasons mentioned. But if a cloth mask floats your boat....

It doesn't matter if it's easier. It's not as good as preventing infection from spreading.

[Jock42]

You're seriously asking me if I "comprehendo?"

[Amethyst]

You asked why it wasn't necessary to decontaminate a mask. If you're washing a reusable mask properly you're effectively decontaminating it, this doesn't negate decontaminating a visor.

If people are wearing masks visors aren't necessary. If you want to cut about in one thats up to you.

It's easier and faster to decontaminate a visor than a cloth mask. Comprehendo? All I'm saying is that a visor is a better option for a lot of obvious reasons mentioned. But if a cloth mask floats your boat....

It doesn't matter if it's easier. It's not as good as preventing infection from spreading.

Of course it is ..for "sender AND "receiver"

[Raggs]

Of course it is ..for "sender AND "receiver"

No. It isn't.

...

There's a reason why those doctors and nurses wear masks underneath.

When you say droplet, you're talking about a big old dollop of water you can see splatter on the visor after a sneeze aren't you.

The rest of us are talking about the sort of droplet you see when you breath out on a very cold day (those are actually bigger than the droplets we're talking about, which is why they're visible). The sort that form condensation when you breath on a piece of glass.

A visor will stop a big old bit of water splatting in your eyes. A mask will stop that droplet from shooting out in the first place.

A mask will also stop a shit ton more droplets that spread every time you breath, whereas they'd just go around a visor.

[Amethyst]

You're seriously asking me if I "comprehendo?"

Yes, I am actually starting to question your logical thinking ability.

[Amethyst]

Of course it is ..for "sender AND "receiver"

No. It isn't.

...

There's a reason why those doctors and nurses wear masks underneath.

When you say droplet, you're talking about a big old dollop of water you can see splatter on the visor after a sneeze aren't you.

The rest of us are talking about the sort of droplet you see when you breath out on a very cold day (those are actually bigger than the droplets we're talking about, which is why they're visible). The sort that form condensation when you breath on a piece of glass.

A visor will stop a big old bit of water splatting in your eyes. A mask will stop that droplet from shooting out in the first place.

A mask will also stop a shit ton more droplets that spread every time you breath, whereas they'd just go around a visor.

You missed the part about wearing a PROPER visor. By the way - many doctors in Covid ICU's wear visors without masks. None of them wear ONLY a mask though as far as I have seen.

[Raggs]

Of course it is ..for "sender AND "receiver"

No. It isn't.

...

There's a reason why those doctors and nurses wear masks underneath.

When you say droplet, you're talking about a big old dollop of water you can see splatter on the visor after a sneeze aren't you.

The rest of us are talking about the sort of droplet you see when you breath out on a very cold day (those are actually bigger than the droplets we're talking about, which is why they're visible). The sort that form condensation when you breath on a piece of glass.

A visor will stop a big old bit of water splatting in your eyes. A mask will stop that droplet from shooting out in the first place.

A mask will also stop a shit ton more droplets that spread every time you breath, whereas they'd just go around a visor.

You missed the part about wearing a PROPER visor. By the way - many doctors in Covid ICU's wear visors without masks. None of them wear ONLY a mask though as far as I have seen.

You're going to need to show me some pictures of "proper" visors then.

And if you can show me some pictures of ICU Covid doctors without masks, that'd be great. Normal ICU/psych etc, sure, masks stop spit/fluids etc.

[Amethyst]

No. It isn't.

You missed the part about wearing a PROPER visor. By the way - many doctors in Covid ICU's wear visors without masks. None of them wear ONLY a mask though as far as I have seen.

You're going to need to show me some pictures of "proper" visors then.

And if you can show me some pictures of ICU Covid doctors without masks, that'd be great. Normal ICU/psych etc, sure, masks stop spit/fluids etc.

Those they wear in ICU is sufficient (they also wear protective clothing). Of course many wear both for "double assurance". Will post a picture if I do voluntary work at the hospital again. It's quite common wearing the visor without a mask at my local hospital (in ICU that is). In other parts of the hospital only masks are worn from what I've seen.

[Sandstorm]

Stop feeding the troll, lads. He's a tool.

[Amethyst]

Stop feeding the troll, lads. He's a tool.

So your contribution has regressed to talking kak. Doos, vokof from the thread if you don't have something constructive to contribute . Doos

[Sandstorm]

Stop feeding the troll, lads. He's a tool.

So your contribution has regressed to talking kak. Doos, vokof from the thread if you don't have something constructive to contribute . Doos

"You are talking shite"

That's my constructive contribution.

[Amethyst]

The guy who's playing with my avatar is fucking childish.

[Jock42]

You're seriously asking me if I "comprehendo?"

Yes, I am actually starting to question your logical thinking ability.

Chaff

[Koalabyte]

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany on school reopenings:

"The science should not stand in the way of this.”

Everything you need to know about the WH handling of the virus.

What a bimbo, as dumb as her boss.

[FujiKiwi]

Koalabyte, do you have any idea why why your case of covid was so bad? Did the doctors have any thoughts?

No need to respond if it's too personal a question. Just ignore.

[CM11]

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany on school reopenings:

"The science should not stand in the way of this.”

Everything you need to know about the WH handling of the virus.

What a bimbo, as dumb as her boss.

Wtf? That's a bizarre statement.

[fishfoodie]

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany on school reopenings:

"The science should not stand in the way of this.”

Everything you need to know about the WH handling of the virus.

What a bimbo, as dumb as her boss.

Wtf? That's a bizarre statement.

This is the bint who on her first day in the job walked into the WH briefing room & told them that she would, "never lie to them"

[The Druid]

This is the bint who on her first day in the job walked into the WH briefing room & told them that she would, "never lie to them

You would, you know you would.

[Raggs]

So the Imperial vaccine group have been advised to make their vaccine in the UK, to prevent the USA from simply buying it all up.

[Saint]

So the Imperial vaccine group have been advised to make their vaccine in the UK, to prevent the USA from simply buying it all up.

And the conversion of the US into "International pariah" is complete

[Raggs]

So the Imperial vaccine group have been advised to make their vaccine in the UK, to prevent the USA from simply buying it all up.

And the conversion of the US into "International pariah" is complete

Same thread of articles had one saying that intelligence agencies weren't sharing with the USA as much, due to being afraid that Trump would leak it whilst being boastful etc.

[fishfoodie]

This is the bint who on her first day in the job walked into the WH briefing room & told them that she would, "never lie to them

You would, you know you would.

I think the thought of who she fucked to get the job would make that unlikely.

[Longshanks]

So this reporting of deaths from Covid-19 in England has Matt Hancock miffed. I think he's suggesting that in some deaths recorded the actual cause of death may not of been coronavirus, but that the person had the illness some time before they died, perhaps a month before. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have not recorded deaths in the same way so will make the ratio of deaths in England appear higher.

[Jock42]

Thats definitely been happening up here too, perhaps not to the same extent.

[Un Pilier]

It’s important they sort it out, otherwise it will muddy the waters in judging what is really happening in the anticipated second wave this winter. It may be inflating England’s death statistics by 10 percent or more, I’ve read.

I wondered why we never produced statistics for recovered cases. We don’t have any

Edit : wave not cave.

[Jock42]

They did for thise hospitalised. The problem is without everyone being tested you cant accurately state who has recovered from covid or who just had a chest infection or other illness.

[Longshanks]

This might be why some think devolution sucks
Independence or all together

[robmatic]

So this reporting of deaths from Covid-19 in England has Matt Hancock miffed. I think he's suggesting that in some deaths recorded the actual cause of death may not of been coronavirus, but that the person had the illness some time before they died, perhaps a month before. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have not recorded deaths in the same way so will make the ratio of deaths in England appear higher.

I don't think the reporting is 100% accurate anywhere, but the excess mortality stats for England are pretty horrific however they were recorded.

[dpedin]

There is real problems with trying to compare covid19 deaths, best just to focus on excess deaths as this is a far more robust and reliable measure. Most countries across Europe have fairly robust death registration systems and if you allow for any time lags in registration it paints a fairly accurate picture. The UK doesn't do well when using this as a measure when compared against comparable european countries, Hancock is just trying to muddy the waters as the UK Gov is under pressure with comparing their performance against that of the devolved administrations. Releasing lock down in England so fast with the number of cases they still have looks pretty risky and even foolhardy, not quite in the Trump or Bolsano league but not far off!

[Bimbowomxn]

There is real problems with trying to compare covid19 deaths, best just to focus on excess deaths as this is a far more robust and reliable measure. Most countries across Europe have fairly robust death registration systems and if you allow for any time lags in registration it paints a fairly accurate picture. The UK doesn't do well when using this as a measure when compared against comparable european countries, Hancock is just trying to muddy the waters as the UK Gov is under pressure with comparing their performance against that of the devolved administrations. Releasing lock down in England so fast with the number of cases they still have looks pretty risky and even foolhardy, not quite in the Trump or Bolsano league but not far off!

None of the excess deaths compared to the other regions was after the divergence in lockdown procedures. The attempt at othering here and has lighting the comparison is nasty and inaccurate.

[Ovals]

There is real problems with trying to compare covid19 deaths, best just to focus on excess deaths as this is a far more robust and reliable measure. Most countries across Europe have fairly robust death registration systems and if you allow for any time lags in registration it paints a fairly accurate picture. The UK doesn't do well when using this as a measure when compared against comparable european countries, Hancock is just trying to muddy the waters as the UK Gov is under pressure with comparing their performance against that of the devolved administrations. Releasing lock down in England so fast with the number of cases they still have looks pretty risky and even foolhardy, not quite in the Trump or Bolsano league but not far off!

None of the excess deaths compared to the other regions was after the divergence in lockdown procedures. The attempt at othering here and has lighting the comparison is nasty and inaccurate.

"The attempt at othering here and has lighting"

Gookidegobble

[CM11]

I very briefly tried to decipher, then checked the poster and, sadly, have my first 'foe' on this bored.

Incidentally, who thought up the whole friend or foe shite for message boards. Bimbo isn't a 'foe'. I just have no interest in seeing his posts. What was wrong with just calling it an ignore list?

[Gav]

So bimbobot got through the firewall somehow.

[Sidney Parade]

Extract from the IFOA continuous mortality Investigation newsletter send on July 7th 2020......


Coronavirus pandemic and the CMI

During the pandemic, we have published weekly updates on mortality in England & Wales, to supplement our usual quarterly updates. The latest version of each covers data to 26 June 2020 and shows that:

There were around 58,000 more deaths registered in England & Wales between 29 February 2020 and 26 June 2020, than would have been expected based on mortality rates in the same period in 2019.
Weekly mortality is now below expected levels, having been more than twice as high as expected in mid-April.
Cumulative standardised mortality to 26 June 2020 is 7.0% above the 2010-19 average.
In the earlier part of the pandemic, “excess” mortality (actual minus expected) was higher than cases where COVID-19 was recorded on the death certificate, but the opposite has been the case since week 21.
Now that mortality has returned to a more typical level, we intend to reduce the frequency of updates, but:

we will continue to monitor experience, and may resume more frequent updates if mortality diverges from expected levels;.

not sure if this link works......

https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy ... 122234.PNG

[Enzedder]

Yes!!!! In 2 weeks there will be no new cases in the USA.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/a ... ZOvoTnQMJo

US Covid 19 coronavirus data will now go straight to White House. What this means for the world
19 Jul, 2020 3:47pm

Led by physicians, scientists and epidemiologists, the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is one of the most reliable sources of knowledge during disease outbreaks. But now, with the world in desperate need of authoritative information, one of the foremost agencies for fighting infectious disease has gone conspicuously silent.

For the first time since 1946, when the CDC came to life in a cramped Atlanta office to fight malaria, the agency is not at the front line of a public health emergency.

On April 22, CDC director Robert Redfield stood at the White House briefing room lectern and conceded that the coronavirus pandemic had "overwhelmed" the United States. Following Redfield at the podium, President Donald Trump said the CDC director had been "totally misquoted" in his warning that Covid-19 would continue to pose serious difficulties as the US moved into its winter 'flu season in late 2020.

Invited to clarify, Redfield confirmed he had been quoted correctly in giving his opinion that there were potentially "difficult and complicated" times ahead.

Trump tried a different tack. "You may not even have corona coming back," the president said, once again contradicting the career virologist. "Just so you understand."

The exchange was interpreted by some pundits as confirmation that the CDC's venerated expertise had been sidelined as the coronavirus continued to ravage the US.

In the latest development, the New York Times reported this week the CDC has even been bypassed in its data collection, with the Trump administration ordering hospitals to send Covid-19 data directly to the White House.

Diminished role
When facing previous public health emergencies, the CDC was a hive of activity, holding regular press briefings and developing guidance that was followed by governments around the world. But during the greatest public health emergency in a century, it appears the CDC has been almost entirely erased by the White House as the public face of the Covid-19 pandemic response.

This diminished role is obvious to former leaders of the CDC, who say their scientific advice has never before been politicised to this extent.
As the Covid-19 crisis was unfolding, several CDC officials issued warnings, only to promptly disappear from public view. Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC's National Center for Immunisation and Respiratory Diseases, predicted on February 25 that the virus was not contained and would grow into a pandemic.

The stock market plunged and Messonnier was removed from future White House press briefings. Between March 9 and June 12 there was no CDC presence at White House press briefings on Covid-19.

The CDC has erred during the pandemic, most significantly in its initial efforts to develop a test for Covid-19. The testing kits proved to be faulty – a problem compounded by sluggish efforts to rectify the situation – and then by severe delays in distributing enough tests to the public.

But many public health specialists are nevertheless baffled by the CDC's low profile as the pandemic continues to sweep the globe.

"They have been sidelined," said Howard Koh, former US assistant secretary for health. "We need their scientific leadership right now."

What does it mean for the world?
The CDC being bypassed in the collection of Covid-19 data is another body blow to the agency's standing.

Hospitals have instead been ordered to send all Covid-19 patient information to a central database in Washington DC.

This will have a range of likely knock-on effects. For starters, the new database will not be available to the public, prompting inevitable questions over the accuracy and transparency of data which will now be interpreted and shared by the White House.

The Department of Health and Human Services, which issued the new order, says the change will help the White House's coronavirus task force allocate resources. But epidemiologists and public health experts around the world fear the new system will make it harder for people outside the White House to track the pandemic or access information.

This affects all nations, because one of the CDC's roles is to provide sound, independent public health guidance on issues such as infectious diseases, healthy living, travel health, emergency and disaster preparedness, and drug efficacy. Other jurisdictions can then adapt this information to their local context — expertise that has become even more essential during a pandemic, when uncertainty is the norm.

It is difficult to recall a previous public health emergency when political pressure led to a change in the interpretation of scientific evidence.

What happens next?
Despite the inevitable challenges that come with tackling a pandemic in real time, the CDC remains the best-positioned agency – not just in the US but the entire world – to help us manage this crisis as safely as possible.

In the absence of US leadership, nations should start thinking about developing their own national centres for disease control. In Australia's case, these discussions have been ongoing since the 1990s, stymied by cost and lack of political will.

Covid-19, and the current sidelining of the CDC, may be the impetus needed to finally dust off those plans and make them a reality.

[MrMojo]

There is real problems with trying to compare covid19 deaths, best just to focus on excess deaths as this is a far more robust and reliable measure. Most countries across Europe have fairly robust death registration systems and if you allow for any time lags in registration it paints a fairly accurate picture. The UK doesn't do well when using this as a measure when compared against comparable european countries, Hancock is just trying to muddy the waters as the UK Gov is under pressure with comparing their performance against that of the devolved administrations. Releasing lock down in England so fast with the number of cases they still have looks pretty risky and even foolhardy, not quite in the Trump or Bolsano league but not far off!

Not quite as simple as that. The death figures in England are absurd and need fixing. As things stand, everyone who has ever tested positive for the virus will eventually become a Covid death statistic when they eventually die. It doesn't matter if they die of cancer, get hit by a bus, die of old age, shoot themselves.... they will get added to the number. The UK death number will therefore keep rising long after the virus is gone. This is clearly ridiculous. Given many of the positive tests are probably older folk and that they may have recovered from the virus (or never had any symptoms anyway) and they then died from something else, the UK death numbers are inflated compared to other countries. Probably not a huge difference but a difference nonetheless.

[Slick]

Thats definitely been happening up here too, perhaps not to the same extent.

My gran in Glasgow had COVID on her death certificate without ever having had it. At least, not tested but never had symptoms

[Biffer]

There is real problems with trying to compare covid19 deaths, best just to focus on excess deaths as this is a far more robust and reliable measure. Most countries across Europe have fairly robust death registration systems and if you allow for any time lags in registration it paints a fairly accurate picture. The UK doesn't do well when using this as a measure when compared against comparable european countries, Hancock is just trying to muddy the waters as the UK Gov is under pressure with comparing their performance against that of the devolved administrations. Releasing lock down in England so fast with the number of cases they still have looks pretty risky and even foolhardy, not quite in the Trump or Bolsano league but not far off!

None of the excess deaths compared to the other regions was after the divergence in lockdown procedures. The attempt at othering here and has lighting the comparison is nasty and inaccurate.

Line 40

[Un Pilier]

There is real problems with trying to compare covid19 deaths, best just to focus on excess deaths as this is a far more robust and reliable measure. Most countries across Europe have fairly robust death registration systems and if you allow for any time lags in registration it paints a fairly accurate picture. The UK doesn't do well when using this as a measure when compared against comparable european countries, Hancock is just trying to muddy the waters as the UK Gov is under pressure with comparing their performance against that of the devolved administrations. Releasing lock down in England so fast with the number of cases they still have looks pretty risky and even foolhardy, not quite in the Trump or Bolsano league but not far off!

Not quite as simple as that. The death figures in England are absurd and need fixing. As things stand, everyone who has ever tested positive for the virus will eventually become a Covid death statistic when they eventually die. It doesn't matter if they die of cancer, get hit by a bus, die of old age, shoot themselves.... they will get added to the number. The UK death number will therefore keep rising long after the virus is gone. This is clearly ridiculous. Given many of the positive tests are probably older folk and that they may have recovered from the virus (or never had any symptoms anyway) and they then died from something else, the UK death numbers are inflated compared to other countries. Probably not a huge difference but a difference nonetheless.

It is a nonsense. My worry is not international comparisons and bored willy waving. It’s how messy it makes assessing the situation on the ground at a local level. I know how many infections there have been where I live. How many are still active? No idea, and that appears to be the case throughout England. As we move towards managing outbreaks locally we need much better data than this.