NPR

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:55 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:50 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:23 pm



Gove said on several occasions, in interviews and speeches, that his father’s business went to the wall as a result of EU policies, his father flatly denied it. Call it gilding the lily if you want, it was false information.

Are you saying that overfishing wasn’t an issue?

You got some quotes from his father denying it?

"My father had a fishing business in Aberdeen destroyed by the European Union and the Common Fisheries Policy," he told a live studio audience.

But it seems his father Ernest, who with his wife Christine adopted Michael when he was a baby, has a different recollection of the demise of his business in Aberdeen.

"It wasn't any hardship or things like that. I just decided to call it a day and just sold up my business and went on to work with someone else," he told The Guardian.

https://news.sky.com/story/gove-fillete ... e-10315067

He had to sell up as it wasn’t viable to continue, granted you’ve got me as you produced a quote.

Right, so saying that Gove was lying wasn’t “a pile of shite” as you called it.

Let’s move on to overfishing. Was it a problem?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:04 pm Right, so saying that Gove was lying wasn’t “a pile of shite” as you called it.

Let’s move on to overfishing. Was it a problem?

Gove wasn’t lying, his dad had to sell up as the industry was consolidating in part due to measures introduced by the EU. He gilded the lily, his old man was trying to save his blushes with that statement.

And that’s me out, family time.

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:04 pm Right, so saying that Gove was lying wasn’t “a pile of shite” as you called it.

Let’s move on to overfishing. Was it a problem?

Gove wasn’t lying, his dad had to sell up as the industry was consolidating in part due to measures introduced by the EU. He gilded the lily, his old man was trying to save his blushes with that statement.

And that’s me out, family time.

The business didn't go to the wall, it was sold as a going concern.

Gove junior must have known that, but he said the business had been destroyed.

For when you get back, was overfishing a problem or not?

The Daily Express

Super-hard Brexit: UK's secret plan to blow up Channel Tunnel with nuclear bomb exposed

Truly deranged.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:55 pm The Daily Express

Super-hard Brexit: UK's secret plan to blow up Channel Tunnel with nuclear bomb exposed

Truly deranged.

Is that real? More Sunday Sport

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:35 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:04 pm Right, so saying that Gove was lying wasn’t “a pile of shite” as you called it.

Let’s move on to overfishing. Was it a problem?

Gove wasn’t lying, his dad had to sell up as the industry was consolidating in part due to measures introduced by the EU. He gilded the lily, his old man was trying to save his blushes with that statement.

And that’s me out, family time.

The business didn't go to the wall, it was sold as a going concern.

Gove junior must have known that, but he said the business had been destroyed.

For when you get back, was overfishing a problem or not?

Knowing what NL does for a living and the part of the country he lives in there is every chance he knows Gove’s parents. I would quit whilst you are behind...

Openside wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:40 pm

Knowing what NL does for a living and the part of the country he lives in there is every chance he knows Gove’s parents. I would quit whilst you are behind...

That's a pretty poor appeal to authority.

Gove misrepresented what happened with his father's business in interviews and in public speeches.

Are you disputing that fact?

One of them, father or son, is not telling the truth.

It's in the public domain that this happened, you can't reinvent this to suit your political leanings.

For the record, I'm from a Scottish east coast fishing town myself.

Openside wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:40 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:35 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:16 pm

Gove wasn’t lying, his dad had to sell up as the industry was consolidating in part due to measures introduced by the EU. He gilded the lily, his old man was trying to save his blushes with that statement.

And that’s me out, family time.

The business didn't go to the wall, it was sold as a going concern.

Gove junior must have known that, but he said the business had been destroyed.

For when you get back, was overfishing a problem or not?

Knowing what NL does for a living and the part of the country he lives in there is every chance he knows Gove’s parents. I would quit whilst you are behind...

He holds all the cards is that?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:35 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:04 pm Right, so saying that Gove was lying wasn’t “a pile of shite” as you called it.

Let’s move on to overfishing. Was it a problem?

Gove wasn’t lying, his dad had to sell up as the industry was consolidating in part due to measures introduced by the EU. He gilded the lily, his old man was trying to save his blushes with that statement.

And that’s me out, family time.

The business didn't go to the wall, it was sold as a going concern.

Gove junior must have known that, but he said the business had been destroyed.

For when you get back, was overfishing a problem or not?

Just popped back in so it’s not a lengthy post as it’s Sunday and I don’t have the inclination to really deal with this today.

Selling a business as a going concern is a bit of a misnomer, it’s more akin to getting out when you can and securing employment to see out your time working for someone else.

I’m not getting into it tbh but there was a huge amount of consolidation at the time and only the fittest survived, I wouldn’t have classed Gove’s old man as one of the fittest.

Now if I have more time this week I can get into overfishing for you, which wasn’t even a point under contention, how the eu exacerbated it, how poor their record is in fisheries management etc etc all without a single bit of Googling. You made the bold assertion that the EU ironically saved the Scottish industry, that’s utter nonsense and if I get the chance this coming week I can elaborate on the why.

Terrific you are from a fishing town I’m sure that matters.

It's only just dawned on me why fishing is so important to the UK in these negotiations. As I posted in the Scottish politics thread, this is all about fighting Scottish independence.
Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:45 am It's only just dawned on me why fishing is so important to the UK in these negotiations. As I posted in the Scottish politics thread, this is all about fighting Scottish independence.
Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake.

So keeping Scotland is vital to the Tories; but they couldn't give a shite about NI ?

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:19 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:45 am It's only just dawned on me why fishing is so important to the UK in these negotiations. As I posted in the Scottish politics thread, this is all about fighting Scottish independence.
Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake.

So keeping Scotland is vital to the Tories; but they couldn't give a shite about NI ?

They do care about NI: it’s their permanent foothold in Ireland and keeping a neighbour under influence. uk has few friends in the world now so has to keep its few supporters sweet and bunging them a few billion to tow the line when needed.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:19 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:45 am It's only just dawned on me why fishing is so important to the UK in these negotiations. As I posted in the Scottish politics thread, this is all about fighting Scottish independence.
Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake.

So keeping Scotland is vital to the Tories; but they couldn't give a shite about NI ?

Stopping the country breaking apart is important ...... shocker

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:19 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:45 am It's only just dawned on me why fishing is so important to the UK in these negotiations. As I posted in the Scottish politics thread, this is all about fighting Scottish independence.
Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake.

So keeping Scotland is vital to the Tories; but they couldn't give a shite about NI ?

Not my call.
But I couldn't work out why something that represents such a small part of our economy is the main sticking point. Now I do. It wIll be turmoil for the SNP if Scottish waters are returned to the UK jurisdiction. Therefore iit's hard to see the UK government giving in on fishing to the EU.

Turkeys

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:23 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:19 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:45 am It's only just dawned on me why fishing is so important to the UK in these negotiations. As I posted in the Scottish politics thread, this is all about fighting Scottish independence.
Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake.

So keeping Scotland is vital to the Tories; but they couldn't give a shite about NI ?

Not my call.
But I couldn't work out why something that represents such a small part of our economy is the main sticking point. Now I do. It wIll be turmoil for the SNP if Scottish waters are returned to the UK jurisdiction. Therefore iit's hard to see the UK government giving in on fishing to the EU.

However important Fishing is to Scotland; farming is an order of magnitude more so to NI; but the UK has done zero to protect it, & actually has expended more effort to destroying it, than supporting it, e.g. it hasn't made any efforts to put in place the sanitary inspections capacity needed, regardless of any deal.

I think the difference is that Scottish MPs seats are always up for grabs; but the Unionists will always get their vote, regardless of what insanity Westminster sends NIs way.

How much is Whisky worth to the Scottish economy ?

It's another industry, with stuff like Salmon farming, that could be very badly hit by tariffs.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:38 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:23 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:19 pm

So keeping Scotland is vital to the Tories; but they couldn't give a shite about NI ?

Not my call.
But I couldn't work out why something that represents such a small part of our economy is the main sticking point. Now I do. It wIll be turmoil for the SNP if Scottish waters are returned to the UK jurisdiction. Therefore iit's hard to see the UK government giving in on fishing to the EU.

However important Fishing is to Scotland; farming is an order of magnitude more so to NI; but the UK has done zero to protect it, & actually has expended more effort to destroying it, than supporting it, e.g. it hasn't made any efforts to put in place the sanitary inspections capacity needed, regardless of any deal.

I think the difference is that Scottish MPs seats are always up for grabs; but the Unionists will always get their vote, regardless of what insanity Westminster sends NIs way.

How much is Whisky worth to the Scottish economy ?

It's another industry, with stuff like Salmon farming, that could be very badly hit by tariffs.

I want a deal
I see the damage of no deal
If there is a deal that respects UK sovereignty over UK waters - Bingo. Or at least a compromise that makes it awkward for the SNP, that is what they seek.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:38 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:23 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:19 pm

So keeping Scotland is vital to the Tories; but they couldn't give a shite about NI ?

Not my call.
But I couldn't work out why something that represents such a small part of our economy is the main sticking point. Now I do. It wIll be turmoil for the SNP if Scottish waters are returned to the UK jurisdiction. Therefore iit's hard to see the UK government giving in on fishing to the EU.

However important Fishing is to Scotland; farming is an order of magnitude more so to NI; but the UK has done zero to protect it, & actually has expended more effort to destroying it, than supporting it, e.g. it hasn't made any efforts to put in place the sanitary inspections capacity needed, regardless of any deal.

I think the difference is that Scottish MPs seats are always up for grabs; but the Unionists will always get their vote, regardless of what insanity Westminster sends NIs way.

How much is Whisky worth to the Scottish economy ?

It's another industry, with stuff like Salmon farming, that could be very badly hit by tariffs.

The whisky guys or at least their trade association reps have actually been pretty chilled about the whole Brexit shenanigans.

Seafood is also going to be crippled by the lack of EHO's able to process the health certs plus the numerous other things that havent been sorted like the lorry permits plus the wooden pallet headache. So it is all well and good wanting more quotas and to be shot of the CFP but there is going to be enormous short-term carnage/disruption until the new markets are established and the supply chains reorganise themselves to be able to deal with them.

Time is now very short and neither we nor the EU are prepared for the talks collapsing so i very much hope this is all just posturing at the moment.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:58 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:38 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:23 pm

Not my call.
But I couldn't work out why something that represents such a small part of our economy is the main sticking point. Now I do. It wIll be turmoil for the SNP if Scottish waters are returned to the UK jurisdiction. Therefore iit's hard to see the UK government giving in on fishing to the EU.

However important Fishing is to Scotland; farming is an order of magnitude more so to NI; but the UK has done zero to protect it, & actually has expended more effort to destroying it, than supporting it, e.g. it hasn't made any efforts to put in place the sanitary inspections capacity needed, regardless of any deal.

I think the difference is that Scottish MPs seats are always up for grabs; but the Unionists will always get their vote, regardless of what insanity Westminster sends NIs way.

How much is Whisky worth to the Scottish economy ?

It's another industry, with stuff like Salmon farming, that could be very badly hit by tariffs.

I want a deal
I see the damage of no deal
If there is a deal that respects UK sovereignty over UK waters - Bingo. Or at least a compromise that makes it awkward for the SNP, that is what they seek.

I dont believe the fishing is about making things awkward for the SNP, they also had fucking Farage sailing up the Thames on a fishing boat, it's about keeping these lunatics at bay as well as establishing our position outside of the EU along international norms.

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:40 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:58 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:38 pm

However important Fishing is to Scotland; farming is an order of magnitude more so to NI; but the UK has done zero to protect it, & actually has expended more effort to destroying it, than supporting it, e.g. it hasn't made any efforts to put in place the sanitary inspections capacity needed, regardless of any deal.

I think the difference is that Scottish MPs seats are always up for grabs; but the Unionists will always get their vote, regardless of what insanity Westminster sends NIs way.

How much is Whisky worth to the Scottish economy ?

It's another industry, with stuff like Salmon farming, that could be very badly hit by tariffs.

I want a deal
I see the damage of no deal
If there is a deal that respects UK sovereignty over UK waters - Bingo. Or at least a compromise that makes it awkward for the SNP, that is what they seek.

I dont believe the fishing is about making things awkward for the SNP, they also had fucking Farage sailing up the Thames on a fishing boat, it's about keeping these lunatics at bay as well as establishing our position outside of the EU along international norms.

I bow to your better insight, however you can see how it would be awkward for the SNP to sign back into to the CFP

Whisky strikes me as:
1) an export market focussed on heading across the pond and increasingly to asia, rather than necessarily to Europe
2) an industry with a healthy domestic market
3) at least to an extent being something of a luxury good where price point is less important

Irish fish and chips will be crap after Brexit.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:26 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:40 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:58 pm
I want a deal
I see the damage of no deal
If there is a deal that respects UK sovereignty over UK waters - Bingo. Or at least a compromise that makes it awkward for the SNP, that is what they seek.

I dont believe the fishing is about making things awkward for the SNP, they also had fucking Farage sailing up the Thames on a fishing boat, it's about keeping these lunatics at bay as well as establishing our position outside of the EU along international norms.

I bow to your better insight, however you can see how it would be awkward for the SNP to sign back into to the CFP

Oh definitely, it is a Brucie bonus that it will fuck them up a bit too, it's just not the primary driver (imo)

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:39 pm Whisky strikes me as:
1) an export market focussed on heading across the pond and increasingly to asia, rather than necessarily to Europe
2) an industry with a healthy domestic market
3) at least to an extent being something of a luxury good where price point is less important

The trade body rep that was at a dinner i attended a couple of years back was more or less along those lines. They are used to selling their product into areas of the world with significant trade barriers, they sell more into markets that have less of them but basically were arguing that is not the end of the world for them if they had to sell into the EU on WTO terms, it will clearly be bad for the EU citizens as they will have to make do with that inferior Irish muck if they cant afford a decent bottle of scotch with a bit of extra duty on it

More Project Fear.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eal-likely

London ‘Thrown to the Lions’ as Brexit Finance Deal Unlikely

The latest shift came Monday at 8 a.m., when London Stock Exchange Group Plc’s stock trading platform Turquoise Europe went live in Amsterdam. It joins other trading venues like Cboe Europe and Aquis Exchange Plc setting up shop on the continent as part of their no-deal Brexit plan
...
Last week, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., said it had applied to French regulators to open its SIGMA X Europe stock platform in Paris from Jan 4. Goldman partner Elizabeth Martin said that she expects most of the 8.6 billion euros ($10 billion) a day in London-based European share trading to shift to the bloc.
...
Goldman is shifting as much as $60 billion in assets to Frankfurt, while JPMorgan is moving about $230 billion to the German city.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:56 pm More Project Fear.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eal-likely

London ‘Thrown to the Lions’ as Brexit Finance Deal Unlikely

The latest shift came Monday at 8 a.m., when London Stock Exchange Group Plc’s stock trading platform Turquoise Europe went live in Amsterdam. It joins other trading venues like Cboe Europe and Aquis Exchange Plc setting up shop on the continent as part of their no-deal Brexit plan
...
Last week, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., said it had applied to French regulators to open its SIGMA X Europe stock platform in Paris from Jan 4. Goldman partner Elizabeth Martin said that she expects most of the 8.6 billion euros ($10 billion) a day in London-based European share trading to shift to the bloc.
...
Goldman is shifting as much as $60 billion in assets to Frankfurt, while JPMorgan is moving about $230 billion to the German city.

Go on tell us what this actually means for jobs in London?


For example how the platform works.

SIGMA X MTF is supported by the robust technology provided by Euronext Market Solutions. It is hosted in Euronext’s European Data Centre, along with other key liquidity venues. Participants located in Euronext’s European Data Centre may utilise existing infrastructure to access SIGMA X MTF.

mmm, no idea they they're project fearing it like then? Bloomberg & the FT just reporting about fuck all then, but you.... lemme think again... not enough space to list all your expertise.

Growing signs of trading, assets and people moving to Europe

Fears that the finance powerhouse that emerged from Margaret Thatcher’s 1986 deregulation -- known as the Big Bang -- will gradually be dismantled have deepened with a recent flurry of announcements about some business heading to the European Union as Britain enters the last month of the Brexit transition period without a financial-services deal in sight.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:30 pm mmm, no idea they they're project fearing it like then? Bloomberg & the FT just reporting about fuck all then, but you.... lemme think again... not enough space to list all your expertise.

Growing signs of trading, assets and people moving to Europe

Fears that the finance powerhouse that emerged from Margaret Thatcher’s 1986 deregulation -- known as the Big Bang -- will gradually be dismantled have deepened with a recent flurry of announcements about some business heading to the European Union as Britain enters the last month of the Brexit transition period without a financial-services deal in sight.

Its a fair deal - they get all our banking and financial business we get a 100,000 bright orange, aging, unwell and possibly ex cons British immigrants returning from Costa del Sol once they find out what its going to cost them! Don't know what you're complaining about! We knew what we were voting for!!!

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:30 pm mmm, no idea they they're project fearing it like then? Bloomberg & the FT just reporting about fuck all then, but you.... lemme think again... not enough space to list all your expertise.

Growing signs of trading, assets and people moving to Europe

Fears that the finance powerhouse that emerged from Margaret Thatcher’s 1986 deregulation -- known as the Big Bang -- will gradually be dismantled have deepened with a recent flurry of announcements about some business heading to the European Union as Britain enters the last month of the Brexit transition period without a financial-services deal in sight.

Yeah, they said 150,000 jobs, then 100,000, the highest estimate so far is 7k.

Hyperbole from remain journos is funny though. I thought you’d actually explain why the platforms registering in Paris would be a good, bad or even a thing. I’ll give you a quick go though at explaining What the platform does and for who.....

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:39 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:30 pm mmm, no idea they they're project fearing it like then? Bloomberg & the FT just reporting about fuck all then, but you.... lemme think again... not enough space to list all your expertise.

Growing signs of trading, assets and people moving to Europe

Fears that the finance powerhouse that emerged from Margaret Thatcher’s 1986 deregulation -- known as the Big Bang -- will gradually be dismantled have deepened with a recent flurry of announcements about some business heading to the European Union as Britain enters the last month of the Brexit transition period without a financial-services deal in sight.

Its a fair deal - they get all our banking and financial business we get a 100,000 bright orange, aging, unwell and possibly ex cons British immigrants returning from Costa del Sol once they find out what its going to cost them! Don't know what you're complaining about! We knew what we were voting for!!!

See IH, this is your level.

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:48 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:39 pm Whisky strikes me as:
1) an export market focussed on heading across the pond and increasingly to asia, rather than necessarily to Europe
2) an industry with a healthy domestic market
3) at least to an extent being something of a luxury good where price point is less important

The trade body rep that was at a dinner i attended a couple of years back was more or less along those lines. They are used to selling their product into areas of the world with significant trade barriers, they sell more into markets that have less of them but basically were arguing that is not the end of the world for them if they had to sell into the EU on WTO terms, it will clearly be bad for the EU citizens as they will have to make do with that inferior Irish muck if they cant afford a decent bottle of scotch with a bit of extra duty on it

Will the main problem not be that the 'Scotch' label will no longer be protected, so the Irish can sell their turpentine as Scotch Whisky?

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:17 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:48 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:39 pm Whisky strikes me as:
1) an export market focussed on heading across the pond and increasingly to asia, rather than necessarily to Europe
2) an industry with a healthy domestic market
3) at least to an extent being something of a luxury good where price point is less important

The trade body rep that was at a dinner i attended a couple of years back was more or less along those lines. They are used to selling their product into areas of the world with significant trade barriers, they sell more into markets that have less of them but basically were arguing that is not the end of the world for them if they had to sell into the EU on WTO terms, it will clearly be bad for the EU citizens as they will have to make do with that inferior Irish muck if they cant afford a decent bottle of scotch with a bit of extra duty on it

Will the main problem not be that the 'Scotch' label will no longer be protected, so the Irish can sell their turpentine as Scotch Whisky?

Scotch is protected post-Brexit under UK GI scheme.

The UK and Japan also recently signed a trade deal to protect UK goods, which could see more than 70 GIs safeguarded under the agreement.

Trade group the Scotch Whisky Association (SWA) also welcomed the new scheme.

A spokesperson for the SWA said: “The GI system is a critical guarantee of Scotch whisky’s quality and provenance, and has been an important factor in our industry’s export success, helping to deter those who wish to produce fakes. We welcome the development of the UK’s new GI scheme, which will help ensure that iconic products like Scotch whisky will continued to be protected against imitation and strengthen its protection.

“We also support the UK government’s ambition to promote best-in-class GI protection for Scotch whisky in future trade agreements.”

That protection will disappear post Independence

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:25 pm That protection will disappear post Independence

Yes, because only the wonderful EU has such a scheme.