The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[robmatic]

It's a bit disappointing that on this development tour we've seen Johnson and Tuipulotu at 12 and not Hutchinson. Admittedly the injury hasn't helped but that is how it's ended up.

[I like neeps]

It's a bit disappointing that on this development tour we've seen Johnson and Tuipulotu at 12 and not Hutchinson. Admittedly the injury hasn't helped but that is how it's ended up.

We have seen Hutchinson increase his value though through versatility.

[Big D]

It's a bit disappointing that on this development tour we've seen Johnson and Tuipulotu at 12 and not Hutchinson. Admittedly the injury hasn't helped but that is how it's ended up.

We have seen Hutchinson increase his value though through versatility.

Agree but he hasn't yet been offered a start in his best position. Granted he's injured but he deserves a start at 12 in the autumn if GT plans to rotate.

On the team picked. Not sure why Gray needs rotated in and Tuipolotu is arguably the 4th best 12 playing in Scotland. He runs hard and occasionally steps but is average at best. A different type of centre only works if they are up to it.

[Slick]

Pourquoi?

His defence at this level was badly exposed last year

Against South Africa?

This is not that level, South Africa's back division is way under-rated, the 21 year old made a mistake on his second cap for the first try down his wing when he was facing a 2 on 1, from out here it looks like he should have drifted and let the cover take Kolisi. The second one saw Johnson bite too early and de Allende did him for pace,

Sigh. OK

[KingBlairhorn]

His defence at this level was badly exposed last year

Against South Africa?

This is not that level, South Africa's back division is way under-rated, the 21 year old made a mistake on his second cap for the first try down his wing when he was facing a 2 on 1, from out here it looks like he should have drifted and let the cover take Kolisi. The second one saw Johnson bite too early and de Allende did him for pace,

Sigh. OK

He got badly exposed in that game for sure. I still think he has the potential to be a really special player, but you are right Slick that we have seen none of that promise since autumn last year. That SA game seemed to have a really tough impact on him, and then his season was very bitty too with injuries etc.

[KingBlairhorn]

It's a bit disappointing that on this development tour we've seen Johnson and Tuipulotu at 12 and not Hutchinson. Admittedly the injury hasn't helped but that is how it's ended up.

We have seen Hutchinson increase his value though through versatility.

Agree but he hasn't yet been offered a start in his best position. Granted he's injured but he deserves a start at 12 in the autumn if GT plans to rotate.

On the team picked. Not sure why Gray needs rotated in and Tuipolotu is arguably the 4th best 12 playing in Scotland. He runs hard and occasionally steps but is average at best. A different type of centre only works if they are up to it.

I'm still waiting for that Tuipolotu performance when we all go, 'Ah, that's what Toonie was seeing'. How long do we wait for it? Harris had had his by this point in his Scotland career, Javan Sebastian has had his already.

[Tichtheid]

His defence at this level was badly exposed last year

Against South Africa?

This is not that level, South Africa's back division is way under-rated, the 21 year old made a mistake on his second cap for the first try down his wing when he was facing a 2 on 1, from out here it looks like he should have drifted and let the cover take Kolisi. The second one saw Johnson bite too early and de Allende did him for pace,

Sigh. OK

Ok.

You can sigh all you like, but saying a 21 year old in his second game had his defence badly exposed after his pack had been beaten up by the world champions and getting done by a 2 on 1 by a top quality international flanker and winger is a bit harsh in my book.

I had a bit of time so I looked up player ratings for that game
edit, btw Rugby Pass match stats have McLean making 3 tackles and missing one in that game, that will be the Mapimpi try

The Offside Line
14. Rufus McLean – 6
Solid enough in defence apart from being caught too tight on Makazole Mapimpi’s first try. Not many chances to show what he can do with the ball in hand, and you wonder whether Darcy Graham might have found a way to ask the Springboks a few more questions.

Rugby Pass
After a brace of tries on debut a fortnight ago, this was a big step up. A couple of glimpses of his attacking prowess but caught too narrow as Mapimpi scampered up the touchline for the Springboks opening score.

Scottish Rugby Blog
Showed great strength to throw of Kwagga Smith in his own 22 and relieve pressure when Scotland were struggling. WIll find more space against other opposition but did well to disrupt in the build up to Mapimpi's second try, only to find his Captain out of position.

Scotsman
Saw little of the ball and was caught out by Makazole Mapimpi for South Africa’s first try. Made way for Blair Kinghorn early in the second half.

Herald
Caught slightly out of position for South Africa’s first try, and although he took the game to the opposition whenever he had the chance, was well policed by the defence.


He was narrow, the whole defence was narrow, and he should have trusted Ritchie covering across and drifted out, you'd almost certainly get that from Maitland. Hopefully he's learned what everyone says, you get far less time in international rugby than in any other game

The incident is here, at 1:36 in this vid if it doesn't go to the time stamp

[Big D]

We have seen Hutchinson increase his value though through versatility.

Agree but he hasn't yet been offered a start in his best position. Granted he's injured but he deserves a start at 12 in the autumn if GT plans to rotate.

On the team picked. Not sure why Gray needs rotated in and Tuipolotu is arguably the 4th best 12 playing in Scotland. He runs hard and occasionally steps but is average at best. A different type of centre only works if they are up to it.

I'm still waiting for that Tuipolotu performance when we all go, 'Ah, that's what Toonie was seeing'. How long do we wait for it? Harris had had his by this point in his Scotland career, Javan Sebastian has had his already.

At this stage he doesnt have it and it's actually unfair on him as he has almost played 12 for Scotland more often than Glasgow.

[I like neeps]

Agree but he hasn't yet been offered a start in his best position. Granted he's injured but he deserves a start at 12 in the autumn if GT plans to rotate.

On the team picked. Not sure why Gray needs rotated in and Tuipolotu is arguably the 4th best 12 playing in Scotland. He runs hard and occasionally steps but is average at best. A different type of centre only works if they are up to it.

I'm still waiting for that Tuipolotu performance when we all go, 'Ah, that's what Toonie was seeing'. How long do we wait for it? Harris had had his by this point in his Scotland career, Javan Sebastian has had his already.

At this stage he doesnt have it and it's actually unfair on him as he has almost played 12 for Scotland more often than Glasgow.

I think there's some revisionist history on Harris. Tuipolotu has 6 caps (including the training run Vs Tonga's B team) and was widely disliked still with supporters.

I've seen it with Tuipolotu - he has shown he can make hard metres, I think he's the best crash call carrier Scotland have as an option. What's a bit annoying is Townsend has picked Sam Johnson through a ban run of form and after his best game in a while he gets dropped. I guess the rotations were planned pre tour.

[Biffer]

For use when any prick tries to call Ewan Ashman a poach

[Big D]

I'm still waiting for that Tuipolotu performance when we all go, 'Ah, that's what Toonie was seeing'. How long do we wait for it? Harris had had his by this point in his Scotland career, Javan Sebastian has had his already.

At this stage he doesnt have it and it's actually unfair on him as he has almost played 12 for Scotland more often than Glasgow.

I think there's some revisionist history on Harris. Tuipolotu has 6 caps (including the training run Vs Tonga's B team) and was widely disliked still with supporters.

I've seen it with Tuipolotu - he has shown he can make hard metres, I think he's the best crash call carrier Scotland have as an option. What's a bit annoying is Townsend has picked Sam Johnson through a ban run of form and after his best game in a while he gets dropped. I guess the rotations were planned pre tour.

Yeah Harris really didn't start well inuding the GT brain fart of Jones at 12 with Harris at 13.

Tuipolotu offers more of a crash ball threat than the others but has yet to show he is a good crash ball threat at international level to the point it is worth dispensing with the better all round players that provide alternative options. One of them is yet to get a chance at 12. With the aim of beating Ireland twice next season (amongst other teams) I can't see a crash ball 12 helping really challenging well organised, good tackling defences.

[Slick]

For use when any prick tries to call Ewan Ashman a poach

That’s great, brings back a lot of emotional memories.

Read this morning that Ollie Smiths mum and dad have followed him all over the world watching him and were at the first 2 tests, but have had to come home for the 3rd!! His old man was running through all the options he has looked at for getting there including flying to Chile and a bus trip over the Andes!

[Biffer]

At this stage he doesnt have it and it's actually unfair on him as he has almost played 12 for Scotland more often than Glasgow.

I think there's some revisionist history on Harris. Tuipolotu has 6 caps (including the training run Vs Tonga's B team) and was widely disliked still with supporters.

I've seen it with Tuipolotu - he has shown he can make hard metres, I think he's the best crash call carrier Scotland have as an option. What's a bit annoying is Townsend has picked Sam Johnson through a ban run of form and after his best game in a while he gets dropped. I guess the rotations were planned pre tour.

Yeah Harris really didn't start well inuding the GT brain fart of Jones at 12 with Harris at 13.

Tuipolotu offers more of a crash ball threat than the others but has yet to show he is a good crash ball threat at international level to the point it is worth dispensing with the better all round players that provide alternative options. One of them is yet to get a chance at 12. With the aim of beating Ireland twice next season (amongst other teams) I can't see a crash ball 12 helping really challenging well organised, good tackling defences.

Tuipolotou is going to have GT considering him as an alternative all the way through to the next World Cup but he won’t be taken because ‘limited squad size’ which is Townsend’s way to not admit to anyone, even himself, that his idea didn’t work.

[Jock42]

For use when any prick tries to call Ewan Ashman a poach

That’s great, brings back a lot of emotional memories.

Read this morning that Ollie Smiths mum and dad have followed him all over the world watching him and were at the first 2 tests, but have had to come home for the 3rd!! His old man was running through all the options he has looked at for getting there including flying to Chile and a bus trip over the Andes!

Ah that's absolutely brutal hope he gets there.

[Tichtheid]

It’s difficult to know how to introduce this story

Tom Philip, ex Embra and Scotland

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/behin ... ix-nations

[Big D]

It’s difficult to know how to introduce this story

Tom Philip, ex Embra and Scotland

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/behin ... ix-nations

Yeah it is awful.

[dpedin]

It’s difficult to know how to introduce this story

Tom Philip, ex Embra and Scotland

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/behin ... ix-nations

Yeah it is awful.

Hard to read. I always thought that he was one of the best players I ever saw play, shame that rugby didnt look after him.

[I like neeps]

At this stage he doesnt have it and it's actually unfair on him as he has almost played 12 for Scotland more often than Glasgow.

I think there's some revisionist history on Harris. Tuipolotu has 6 caps (including the training run Vs Tonga's B team) and was widely disliked still with supporters.

I've seen it with Tuipolotu - he has shown he can make hard metres, I think he's the best crash call carrier Scotland have as an option. What's a bit annoying is Townsend has picked Sam Johnson through a ban run of form and after his best game in a while he gets dropped. I guess the rotations were planned pre tour.

Yeah Harris really didn't start well inuding the GT brain fart of Jones at 12 with Harris at 13.

Tuipolotu offers more of a crash ball threat than the others but has yet to show he is a good crash ball threat at international level to the point it is worth dispensing with the better all round players that provide alternative options. One of them is yet to get a chance at 12. With the aim of beating Ireland twice next season (amongst other teams) I can't see a crash ball 12 helping really challenging well organised, good tackling defences.

Even the world cup I remember when the ball was ripped from Harris Vs Japan who went on to score the dagger and everyone was either furious or bemused he was in that position anyway! I can't remember when he became popular. I imagine around lockdown 2.

I fully agree we won't beat Ireland with Tuipolotu, I think the best chance we have is a huge regression in Ireland's performance levels. Then pick Russell, Hutchinson, Bennett and go full mental. But I think Vs Wales Tuipolotu actually carried quite well but got turned over because he outran support - I don't remember the other six nations games as after Wales I just kind of gave up on them. And his passing is awful and that's a big problem. Let's see how he goes Vs Argentina. Not that I agree with the selection, if Hutch isn't at 12 I'd have wanted Chris Dean.

[Slick]

It’s difficult to know how to introduce this story

Tom Philip, ex Embra and Scotland

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/behin ... ix-nations

Yeah it is awful.

Hard to read. I always thought that he was one of the best players I ever saw play, shame that rugby didnt look after him.

Jesus that’s tough to read. Jonny Wilkinson also some boy

[Yr Alban]

It’s difficult to know how to introduce this story

Tom Philip, ex Embra and Scotland

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/behin ... ix-nations

Yeah it is awful.

Hard to read. I always thought that he was one of the best players I ever saw play, shame that rugby didnt look after him.

That sounds horrific. The poor guy clearly has a lot of issues, and rugby really didn’t help him with them. He was a huge talent who never got the chance to show it.

[Big D]

I think there's some revisionist history on Harris. Tuipolotu has 6 caps (including the training run Vs Tonga's B team) and was widely disliked still with supporters.

I've seen it with Tuipolotu - he has shown he can make hard metres, I think he's the best crash call carrier Scotland have as an option. What's a bit annoying is Townsend has picked Sam Johnson through a ban run of form and after his best game in a while he gets dropped. I guess the rotations were planned pre tour.

Yeah Harris really didn't start well inuding the GT brain fart of Jones at 12 with Harris at 13.

Tuipolotu offers more of a crash ball threat than the others but has yet to show he is a good crash ball threat at international level to the point it is worth dispensing with the better all round players that provide alternative options. One of them is yet to get a chance at 12. With the aim of beating Ireland twice next season (amongst other teams) I can't see a crash ball 12 helping really challenging well organised, good tackling defences.

Even the world cup I remember when the ball was ripped from Harris Vs Japan who went on to score the dagger and everyone was either furious or bemused he was in that position anyway! I can't remember when he became popular. I imagine around lockdown 2.

I fully agree we won't beat Ireland with Tuipolotu, I think the best chance we have is a huge regression in Ireland's performance levels. Then pick Russell, Hutchinson, Bennett and go full mental. But I think Vs Wales Tuipolotu actually carried quite well but got turned over because he outran support - I don't remember the other six nations games as after Wales I just kind of gave up on them. And his passing is awful and that's a big problem. Let's see how he goes Vs Argentina. Not that I agree with the selection, if Hutch isn't at 12 I'd have wanted Chris Dean.

As always I hope the player proves me wrong. Harris did the hard yards and earned his place/starts over time, my concern is that ST is potentially the 4th best 12 in Scotland. I think he's the third before Hutch gets added to the mix. So he's not really "earning it" and that's perhaps what is turning people off him.

Biggest concern tbh is that GT has no apparent idea or gameplan for the physical teams we are due to face in important games.

[Big D]

I expect them to go well on Saturday tbh. Looking forward to catching up when I'm home from holiday.

[dkm57]

Have to say I've yet to be convinced about Tuipolotu, at the moment I see him as the black hole where Scottish ball goes to die.

At the moment the backs are way too keen to take the ball into contact away from support and get turned over and the passing has been pretty unsympathetic, more in hope than expecting the guy to catch it.

Reasonably hopeful of a decent win. Providing we don't get any dumb cards.

[KingBlairhorn]

Dalziel apparently not in the running for Glasgow according to Jim Mallinder.

Apparently the SRU are also considering putting the U20s into the Super6 as a team, which I think is an excellent idea.

[Tichtheid]

Apparently the SRU are also considering putting the U20s into the Super6 as a team, which I think is an excellent idea.

That would be a good start, reinforcing them with one of two guys who have recently been in the U20s, but not too many, would make them a decent outfit.

They were really off the pace in the 6N this year and I could only bring myself to watch two games in the most recent tournament, the backs in particular looked poorly coached and, frankly, out-classed.

The junior world cup and shield tournament start again next year, when we were supposed to be playing in Spain in the shield before Covid struck we had a really good cohort and I was confident of us gaining promotion back to the big table.

Right now I'm less bullish about it.

[I like neeps]

Apparently the SRU are also considering putting the U20s into the Super6 as a team, which I think is an excellent idea.

That would be a good start, reinforcing them with one of two guys who have recently been in the U20s, but not too many, would make them a decent outfit.

They were really off the pace in the 6N this year and I could only bring myself to watch two games in the most recent tournament, the backs in particular looked poorly coached and, frankly, out-classed.

The junior world cup and shield tournament start again next year, when we were supposed to be playing in Spain in the shield before Covid struck we had a really good cohort and I was confident of us gaining promotion back to the big table.

Right now I'm less bullish about it.

The issue is, a u20 super 6(but this is probably expansion so super8 team) has no natural base of supporters and so what are the commercial opportunities - super6 was meant to be running mini pro-lite clubs which this wouldn't be. And if it's u20s with supplementing recent graduates the player pool of the other 7 teams is weaker. That said, it's maybe the best of an unideal situation.

[Tichtheid]

The issue is, a u20 super 6(but this is probably expansion so super8 team) has no natural base of supporters and so what are the commercial opportunities - super6 was meant to be running mini pro-lite clubs which this wouldn't be. And if it's u20s with supplementing recent graduates the player pool of the other 7 teams is weaker. That said, it's maybe the best of an unideal situation.

Actually this is a decent point, the clubs would be, as per usual, moaning their pusses off about it, complaining that it should be one of them who get the status and the backing.

My point about supplementing was exactly what I said, one or two guys, not many.

We have to do something to get the U20s playing regularly, this is a creative way to achieve it, I like the idea.

[Biffer]

Thee should be conditions on super 6 that they have to include a certain number of age grade players in each 23.

[I like neeps]

The issue is, a u20 super 6(but this is probably expansion so super8 team) has no natural base of supporters and so what are the commercial opportunities - super6 was meant to be running mini pro-lite clubs which this wouldn't be. And if it's u20s with supplementing recent graduates the player pool of the other 7 teams is weaker. That said, it's maybe the best of an unideal situation.

Actually this is a decent point, the clubs would be, as per usual, moaning their pusses off about it, complaining that it should be one of them who get the status and the backing.

My point about supplementing was exactly what I said, one or two guys, not many.

We have to do something to get the U20s playing regularly, this is a creative way to achieve it, I like the idea.

Yeah that's true. I think it would also be a shame for Stirling, Ayr and Muir who brings boys through from the juniors to the super6 only to lose them.

I think it's also quite challenging as where will it be based? You'd have lads coming from everywhere for two training sessions and one match per week.

I agree creative solutions are needed. I think biffer is correct in each club needs to play x amount of u21s per week. I'm pleased the next super5 has academies not deciding what club you're given to but club need.

[KingBlairhorn]

The other way to do it is to add Glasgow and Edinburgh as Super6 teams using only (and it has to be only) their non-URC playing U20 (U23 perhaps) squad members. All players should be training in the respective locations regularly already, plus it would resolve the no-Glasgow team issue (although reinforce the too many Edinburgh teams issue).

Any other URC level player should then be drafted and if available should play for whichever current Super6 team they are drafted to. Might give a best of both worlds, however I'm not sure there would be sufficient players to support both an Edinburgh and a Glasgow team.

[KingBlairhorn]

The other way to do it is to add Glasgow and Edinburgh as Super6 teams using only (and it has to be only) their non-URC playing U20 (U23 perhaps) squad members. All players should be training in the respective locations regularly already, plus it would resolve the no-Glasgow team issue (although reinforce the too many Edinburgh teams issue).

Any other URC level player should then be drafted and if available should play for whichever current Super6 team they are drafted to. Might give a best of both worlds, however I'm not sure there would be sufficient players to support both an Edinburgh and a Glasgow team.

Actually, I take this back, it wouldn't work. There aren't enough players aligned with the two teams and it would necessitate taking at least stage 3 players away from their clubs and probably academy supported players too.

[Crash669]

It’s difficult to know how to introduce this story

Tom Philip, ex Embra and Scotland

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/behin ... ix-nations

Yeah it is awful.

Hard to read. I always thought that he was one of the best players I ever saw play, shame that rugby didnt look after him.

Tom's a friend of mine and he has nothing good at all to say about the SRU from his time in the set up. Not in the article but he told me he had to play his first cap with a double hernia because the doctor said "You're going to play for your country, harden the fuck up." He's still a fitness freak but his body is a wreck really from how much he overtrained.

It's very sad what's happened to him. He won't even really watch union these days.

[Slick]

Apparently the SRU are also considering putting the U20s into the Super6 as a team, which I think is an excellent idea.

That would be a good start, reinforcing them with one of two guys who have recently been in the U20s, but not too many, would make them a decent outfit.

They were really off the pace in the 6N this year and I could only bring myself to watch two games in the most recent tournament, the backs in particular looked poorly coached and, frankly, out-classed.

The junior world cup and shield tournament start again next year, when we were supposed to be playing in Spain in the shield before Covid struck we had a really good cohort and I was confident of us gaining promotion back to the big table.

Right now I'm less bullish about it.

The issue is, a u20 super 6(but this is probably expansion so super8 team) has no natural base of supporters and so what are the commercial opportunities - super6 was meant to be running mini pro-lite clubs which this wouldn't be. And if it's u20s with supplementing recent graduates the player pool of the other 7 teams is weaker. That said, it's maybe the best of an unideal situation.

Realistically are there any commercial opportunities anyway? Crowds are pretty sparse.

Is there a potential link up with uni/colleges in the cities? Could some of the big companies take on players in some kind of apprenticeship

[Scottish Caley Fan]

I really like the idea of putting under 20 team into Super 6 so maybe Kenny Murray doesn't need the axe yet lol, most coaches winless in over 16 tests would be out the day after the tournament ended but I suppose Messrs Mallinder and Dobson can see the issue and believe its not a coaching one, though I'm in 2 minds about that, on one hand, yes it's not his fault his players don't get any matches throughout the year but, on the other hand, he picks the team, tactics etc.

Anyway, I like Biffer's idea of there needing to be a rule about clubs having a certain number of youngsters in their match day squad, this also needs to happen in football too but their results aren't bad as the rugby team plus a lot of these youngsters can go out on loan to teams leagues below, like my team ICT lol.

I also like KingBlairhorn's idea of having a Glasgow and Edinburgh team in the Super 6 and again will go back to football and use the example of Rangers/Celtic B going into Leagues so that their players can them get matches week in week out without the need to go on loan to smaller league clubs.

I know not everyone on here is a football fan but Rugby should use Football as a guide as to how changes can be made to benefit our under 20s because we certainly want them to succeed otherwise the future for the senior team will be bleak and I for one certainly DO NOT want to go back to the days of that clown Matt Williams!

[dkm57]

I like both super 6 (10) ideas, anything that gets the youngsters and fringe players more real game time is good.

[Jock42]

If my mate was looking for a stream for the match tonight where should he look?

[Jockaline]

If my mate was looking for a stream for the match tonight where should he look?

https://vipleague.im using firefox, may be an option, but also might also infect your computer.

[Jock42]

If my mate was looking for a stream for the match tonight where should he look?

https://vipleague.im using firefox, may be an option, but also might also infect your computer.

Cheers.

Itll be on a phone unless I can find somewhere in Nijmegen that will show it. Not even sure if any broadcaster will be nevermind a bar.

[KingBlairhorn]

Apropos of nothing, Matt Fagerson is 24 today. 24. How is he still only 24?!

[C T]

Apropos of nothing, Matt Fagerson is 24 today. 24. How is he still only 24?!

Zander's 50th cap today too. There will be dancing on the streets of Perth.