NPR

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:41 pm Apropos of nothing, Matt Fagerson is 24 today. 24. How is he still only 24?!

C T wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:45 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:41 pm Apropos of nothing, Matt Fagerson is 24 today. 24. How is he still only 24?!

Zander's 50th cap today too. There will be dancing on the streets of Perth.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:57 pm Well that was a fun 40.

Defence has been pretty good.

Kinghorn has been generally excellent as has Price and both Fagersons. Seeing wee glimpses of how good Smith is going to be.

Ashman has been brilliant around the park, his throwing has been poor, but that front row looks really solid.

Every game Darge plays makes Jamie Richies return more interesting

Ref is awful

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:01 pm Shit the bed.

Soapy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:05 pm Bye, bye Gregor. Dreadful selector. Dreadful coach. But still will be there for another early exit from the WC …

Charles wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:20 am The good thing is we are showing incredible consistency. Repeating the same errors, penalties, disorganisation, lack of clarity of thought and execution, mental weakness and inability to perform under any pressure. This comes from this imposter of a coach and his total failure to select, man manage and implement. And it is obvious the squad have no belief or confidence in him and he is creating scisms all over the place. He has to go now for us to even get a chance to stabalise for us to even have a chance to stand still over the next few years. We are going to get crushed at the world cup no matter what! But he won’t go and the SRU won’t sack him! We’re just going to fall further and further now!

Charles wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:12 pm I think that my post reflects my total frustration and disillusionment with Scottish rugby and the SRU which is at the worst it has been over more than 40 years of being involved in/following Scottish rugby. Part of that is with the game generally and the way in which it is run and officiated, which is ruining it as a spectacle. So probably the only thing Eddie Jones has ever said or done with which I agree.

And massively by the mismanagement of the pro and age grade game by the SRU, the cliqueiness of its structures (especially on the coaching front) and its abject neglect of grass routes and youth rugby.

And the one aspect of the game that they do commit to - the Men’s National team - they allowed themselves to be dictated to by GT to usurp a coach who was putting down proper foundations who then proves to be out of his depth and unable to properly utilise the best talent a Scottish coach has had available to him for over 30 years!

Charles wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:07 pm With respect, whilst there were undoubtedly dark days for a large part of those 40 years you could see the limited availabel resources and so we had to measure our disappointment against acceptance we were limited in what we could realistically achieve with what was available. However, that isn’t the case now and that drives the annoyance and frustration. And we are light years behind in our pathways and youth coaching and also promoting the game to a wider audience- that is all on the SRU!

Charles wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:03 pm Great we agree and undoubtedly we are paupers on resources no matter what! It is so depressing on the youth rugby front. My fried with kids at school in Dublin talks about every rugby playing having full time s&c and skills coaches and blocks of 8 weeks every summer where these boys week days being expected to come in and commit to the programme. All IRFU co-ordinated and part funded. Where as here …?

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:34 pm

Charles wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:03 pm Great we agree and undoubtedly we are paupers on resources no matter what! It is so depressing on the youth rugby front. My fried with kids at school in Dublin talks about every rugby playing having full time s&c and skills coaches and blocks of 8 weeks every summer where these boys week days being expected to come in and commit to the programme. All IRFU co-ordinated and part funded. Where as here …?

Does his son go to a private school? Because the private schools here have S&C's (as do English private schools). They all do summer training as well. The problem is the public schools not getting the support. But Irish schools rugby is very private dominated as well - I doubt the IRFU are funding skills coaches and S&C's in all 400 schools across the country. The Welsh would be a better example to copy.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:59 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:34 pm

Charles wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:03 pm Great we agree and undoubtedly we are paupers on resources no matter what! It is so depressing on the youth rugby front. My fried with kids at school in Dublin talks about every rugby playing having full time s&c and skills coaches and blocks of 8 weeks every summer where these boys week days being expected to come in and commit to the programme. All IRFU co-ordinated and part funded. Where as here …?

Does his son go to a private school? Because the private schools here have S&C's (as do English private schools). They all do summer training as well. The problem is the public schools not getting the support. But Irish schools rugby is very private dominated as well - I doubt the IRFU are funding skills coaches and S&C's in all 400 schools across the country. The Welsh would be a better example to copy.

Exactly this - the hugely impressive pathways in Ireland are centered around the fee-paying schools and especially the Dublin fee-paying schools. Whilst the IRFU is certainly involved, my understanding from Irish family is that the schools themselves are predominantly responsible for this and the IRFU got involved after they were established, not before. The likes of Blackrock or whatever see it as one of the key differentiators for their school and heavily promote the quality of their rugby programmes. Whilst the Irish deserve enormous praise for the way they have developed their systems over the last 20 years to become arguably one of the pre-eminent pathways in world rugby, we have to be careful to understand how exactly they developed if we seek to copy them in any way. We also have to be aware, as neeps points out, that our own Independent schools are well on their way, at least in Edinburgh, to replicating some of these structures. This is not where the bulk of the SRU focus should be (not suggesting you said it was btw).

Once again I'm going to bang the drum for Performance Schools. We need to find ways to expand the number of schools with genuine high quality rugby programmes. Support the Independent schools to ensure they can maximise their impact, but we need to have non-fee paying schools with rugby programmes too and those must be linked to the clubs who do the vast majority of the early development. Independently educated children in Scotland make up less than 4% of the total enrollment, it beggars belief that the SRU can effectively ignore the 96% who don't come through that system which is what many seem to be suggesting is happening.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:33 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:59 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:34 pm

Does his son go to a private school? Because the private schools here have S&C's (as do English private schools). They all do summer training as well. The problem is the public schools not getting the support. But Irish schools rugby is very private dominated as well - I doubt the IRFU are funding skills coaches and S&C's in all 400 schools across the country. The Welsh would be a better example to copy.

Exactly this - the hugely impressive pathways in Ireland are centered around the fee-paying schools and especially the Dublin fee-paying schools. Whilst the IRFU is certainly involved, my understanding from Irish family is that the schools themselves are predominantly responsible for this and the IRFU got involved after they were established, not before. The likes of Blackrock or whatever see it as one of the key differentiators for their school and heavily promote the quality of their rugby programmes. Whilst the Irish deserve enormous praise for the way they have developed their systems over the last 20 years to become arguably one of the pre-eminent pathways in world rugby, we have to be careful to understand how exactly they developed if we seek to copy them in any way. We also have to be aware, as neeps points out, that our own Independent schools are well on their way, at least in Edinburgh, to replicating some of these structures. This is not where the bulk of the SRU focus should be (not suggesting you said it was btw).

Once again I'm going to bang the drum for Performance Schools. We need to find ways to expand the number of schools with genuine high quality rugby programmes. Support the Independent schools to ensure they can maximise their impact, but we need to have non-fee paying schools with rugby programmes too and those must be linked to the clubs who do the vast majority of the early development. Independently educated children in Scotland make up less than 4% of the total enrollment, it beggars belief that the SRU can effectively ignore the 96% who don't come through that system which is what many seem to be suggesting is happening.

They don't ignore it, it's just you've got such limited options. Rugby clubs run basically on volunteer coaches - hugely passionate about the game and use their time. Supplemented with SRU development officers regionally and the SRU boost the coaching skills of these guys. So makes sense for this to be the focus.

Public schools PE teachers won't be specialist in rugby, even if they like it which isn't guaranteed like clubs and they won't have the time with all the nonsense work teachers have to go and coach up kids for league games and take time out to do so. But it's part of the job for private schools to provide this. Only so much the SRU can do. They'd need to hire hundreds of people to be based in schools for this to be a success and even then it doesn't really work as you'd need coaches for matches.

Agree you'd need a similar system to the SFA performance schools but it's not a silver bullet and logistically very difficult.

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:50 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:33 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:59 am

Exactly this - the hugely impressive pathways in Ireland are centered around the fee-paying schools and especially the Dublin fee-paying schools. Whilst the IRFU is certainly involved, my understanding from Irish family is that the schools themselves are predominantly responsible for this and the IRFU got involved after they were established, not before. The likes of Blackrock or whatever see it as one of the key differentiators for their school and heavily promote the quality of their rugby programmes. Whilst the Irish deserve enormous praise for the way they have developed their systems over the last 20 years to become arguably one of the pre-eminent pathways in world rugby, we have to be careful to understand how exactly they developed if we seek to copy them in any way. We also have to be aware, as neeps points out, that our own Independent schools are well on their way, at least in Edinburgh, to replicating some of these structures. This is not where the bulk of the SRU focus should be (not suggesting you said it was btw).

Once again I'm going to bang the drum for Performance Schools. We need to find ways to expand the number of schools with genuine high quality rugby programmes. Support the Independent schools to ensure they can maximise their impact, but we need to have non-fee paying schools with rugby programmes too and those must be linked to the clubs who do the vast majority of the early development. Independently educated children in Scotland make up less than 4% of the total enrollment, it beggars belief that the SRU can effectively ignore the 96% who don't come through that system which is what many seem to be suggesting is happening.

They don't ignore it, it's just you've got such limited options. Rugby clubs run basically on volunteer coaches - hugely passionate about the game and use their time. Supplemented with SRU development officers regionally and the SRU boost the coaching skills of these guys. So makes sense for this to be the focus.

Public schools PE teachers won't be specialist in rugby, even if they like it which isn't guaranteed like clubs and they won't have the time with all the nonsense work teachers have to go and coach up kids for league games and take time out to do so. But it's part of the job for private schools to provide this. Only so much the SRU can do. They'd need to hire hundreds of people to be based in schools for this to be a success and even then it doesn't really work as you'd need coaches for matches.

Agree you'd need a similar system to the SFA performance schools but it's not a silver bullet and logistically very difficult.

Not all the private schools in Scotland focus on rugby either - it tends to be a small number of them who have a focus on rugby, and offer rugby scholarships, which means we end up with a very small pool to work with. Would a better approach not be for clubs to twin up with local schools and the SRU try and support them both through joint appointments and coaching programmes. I know this happens in some schools/clubs already and it seems successful?

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:16 pm The more I have thought about it today the more it has annoyed me. Can someone with a greater rugby knowledge than mine explain to me why the fuck Price thought it was a good idea to box kick away possession with a couple of minutes to go. These guys are meant to have professional rugby brains so why couldn't he see we had soundly lost the aerial battle but had retained possession with easy when we had trucked it up. The chances of us gathering the box kick were minimal compared with the chances of the forwards retaining possession for enough phases to waste a few minutes.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:51 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:16 pm The more I have thought about it today the more it has annoyed me. Can someone with a greater rugby knowledge than mine explain to me why the fuck Price thought it was a good idea to box kick away possession with a couple of minutes to go. These guys are meant to have professional rugby brains so why couldn't he see we had soundly lost the aerial battle but had retained possession with easy when we had trucked it up. The chances of us gathering the box kick were minimal compared with the chances of the forwards retaining possession for enough phases to waste a few minutes.

Not that I have better rugby knowledge but it's because holding onto your position with about 5 minutes to go in your own half is not a good idea. I doubt anyone can hold the ball that long in top level right these days. It's very likely you concede a penalty or are turned over. Kicking is always the right option there. Price's kick was awful which is the problem.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:25 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:51 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:16 pm The more I have thought about it today the more it has annoyed me. Can someone with a greater rugby knowledge than mine explain to me why the fuck Price thought it was a good idea to box kick away possession with a couple of minutes to go. These guys are meant to have professional rugby brains so why couldn't he see we had soundly lost the aerial battle but had retained possession with easy when we had trucked it up. The chances of us gathering the box kick were minimal compared with the chances of the forwards retaining possession for enough phases to waste a few minutes.

Not that I have better rugby knowledge but it's because holding onto your position with about 5 minutes to go in your own half is not a good idea. I doubt anyone can hold the ball that long in top level right these days. It's very likely you concede a penalty or are turned over. Kicking is always the right option there. Price's kick was awful which is the problem.

I just don't see that, not with a box kick. The ground gained is minimal if you are wanting to give your chasers even a small chance. I really can't see how retaining the ball for a few more phases until you waste another thirty seconds, get better field position and then kick the ball deep, is not a far better option. Allows you to receive their attack well into their half and also allows time to set your defence. What am I missing.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:30 pm
Accies, Broughton and Trinity have the BATs club that combines the youth teams and goes into schools, seems quite successful

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:03 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:30 pm
Accies, Broughton and Trinity have the BATs club that combines the youth teams and goes into schools, seems quite successful

I was trying to remember what BATs was called when this topic was brought up.

I'm a little bit jealous of you moving to Porty, my mate had one of the nice sandstone terraced houses near the beach, lovely place.

Beach bonfires at Slicks for Hogmanay, then :-)

I don't know much about the club, but they are an old one, they used to play quite high up the leagues, no idea now

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:10 pm Anyone know anything about Portobello rugby club? Going to be my new local club in a couple of weeks so keen to get involved

westport wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:59 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:10 pm Anyone know anything about Portobello rugby club? Going to be my new local club in a couple of weeks so keen to get involved

A friend is a member there, it is good club with lots of good guys there Ian Goodall is also a member there

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:25 pm

westport wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:59 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:10 pm Anyone know anything about Portobello rugby club? Going to be my new local club in a couple of weeks so keen to get involved

A friend is a member there, it is good club with lots of good guys there Ian Goodall is also a member there

Cheers!

Who’s Ian Goodall?