NPR

Jamie Ritchie is back running again

westport wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:54 pm Jamie Ritchie is back running again

Good news, I hope we get a good run without injuries this year, last season was ridiculous, twenty players out some weeks.

*chucks grenade*




*hides*

westport wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:53 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:25 pm

westport wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:59 am

A friend is a member there, it is good club with lots of good guys there Ian Goodall is also a member there

Cheers!

Who’s Ian Goodall?

Used to be the referees manager

When my son played for another Embra team I was always very impressed with the Porty club and the warm welcome we got. They made a real effort to be part of the community and reach out to kids who wouldn't normally play rugby. I don't know his name but the guy who ran their u14-u16 teams 12-14 years ago was a real enthusiast and worked incredibly hard with the boys, some of whom came from difficult backgrounds.

My only complaint was when we asked our guys where they wanted to go for their last ever Tour when they were 17-18 they spoke to some mates at Porty and they recommended Whitley Bay because they said going out on Friday night was like shooting fish in a barrel. We played and beat Percy Park and Alnwick. Whitley Bay however was an experience for the boys and the dads ... never again!

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:26 pm *chucks grenade*




*hides*

He did create a few nice tries...

However, since when has assist been a stat in rugby? Someone can correct me but I've genuinely never heard it.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:14 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:26 pm *chucks grenade*




*hides*

He did create a few nice tries...

However, since when has assist been a stat in rugby? Someone can correct me but I've genuinely never heard it.

What does it even mean? Give the final pass?

Laura Muir 3rd and Jake Wightman first at the World Championship 1500m, that’s pretty cool

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:49 am

What does it even mean? Give the final pass?

"An action by an attacking player that has led to or created a try scoring chance for his team mate"


This is good fun

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:06 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:49 am

What does it even mean? Give the final pass?

"An action by an attacking player that has led to or created a try scoring chance for his team mate"


This is good fun

Number 8 isn't very fun!

Who gets the assist for a try from a maul? The hooker I presume?

Interesting it's a thing. I'd heard of it in football but never rugby. I bet there's some interesting stats of 10s getting fewer assists as teams start to play off 9 more.

Scotland 7s are getting binned as Team GB will be competing on the World 7s circuit.

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:09 am Scotland 7s are getting binned as Team GB will be competing on the World 7s circuit.

Utter disgrace. How can the SRU justify agreeing to this. No matter how you look at it this decision is detrimental to rugby in Scotland.

The latest in a long line of astonishing ineptitude. It’s almost as if the SRU want us to be shit.

Tattie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:10 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:09 am Scotland 7s are getting binned as Team GB will be competing on the World 7s circuit.

Utter disgrace. How can the SRU justify agreeing to this. No matter how you look at it this decision is detrimental to rugby in Scotland.

The latest in a long line of astonishing ineptitude. It’s almost as if the SRU want us to be shit.

It's almost certain to be a financial decision rather than a rugby one.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:12 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:10 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:09 am Scotland 7s are getting binned as Team GB will be competing on the World 7s circuit.

Utter disgrace. How can the SRU justify agreeing to this. No matter how you look at it this decision is detrimental to rugby in Scotland.

The latest in a long line of astonishing ineptitude. It’s almost as if the SRU want us to be shit.

It's almost certain to be a financial decision rather than a rugby one.

Yes but we are where we are because of “financial decisions” of the past.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:52 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:06 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:49 am

What does it even mean? Give the final pass?

"An action by an attacking player that has led to or created a try scoring chance for his team mate"


This is good fun

Number 8 isn't very fun!

Who gets the assist for a try from a maul? The hooker I presume?

Interesting it's a thing. I'd heard of it in football but never rugby. I bet there's some interesting stats of 10s getting fewer assists as teams start to play off 9 more.

It's been part of most stats for as long as I can remember (ESPN Scrum's ones, for example) but it's largely meaningless without context so no-one makes a big deal of it.

I think it's a smart decision. The sevens team is crap, has been since the likes of Wight and Robertson retired and isn't an effective development tool. Now we don't have a sevens leg what's the following the national side even has in Scotland? I can't imagine anyone watches the sevens legs often.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:36 pm I think it's a smart decision. The sevens team is crap, has been since the likes of Wight and Robertson retired and isn't an effective development tool. Now we don't have a sevens leg what's the following the national side even has in Scotland? I can't imagine anyone watches the sevens legs often.

Might as well ditch the U20s in that case.

Just another erosion of the number of Scottish players playing high level rugby. The SRU should be doing all they can to expand the game not contract it.

Tattie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:46 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:36 pm I think it's a smart decision. The sevens team is crap, has been since the likes of Wight and Robertson retired and isn't an effective development tool. Now we don't have a sevens leg what's the following the national side even has in Scotland? I can't imagine anyone watches the sevens legs often.

Might as well ditch the U20s in that case.

Just another erosion of the number of Scottish players playing high level rugby. The SRU should be doing all they can to expand the game not contract it.

I guess it depends where that money is going - create this new U20's S6 team? new pathway development for the U20's? Outreach to schools and supporting non traditional schools? Any of those would be quite useful and it would be good to know.

Probably not though.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:36 pm I think it's a smart decision. The sevens team is crap, has been since the likes of Wight and Robertson retired and isn't an effective development tool. Now we don't have a sevens leg what's the following the national side even has in Scotland? I can't imagine anyone watches the sevens legs often.

I disagree. Admittedly it's not great as a pure development tool, but even recently we've seen Kyle Rowe go from 7s to pro and then the national squad in fairly short order. And it's handy for the two pro teams to have access to an additional bank of players who are fit and conditioned and have the skills to step up if there is need in the main squad.

It also doesn't say much for Scottish ambitions for a 3rd development pro team if a 7s squad isn't sustainable.

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:59 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:36 pm I think it's a smart decision. The sevens team is crap, has been since the likes of Wight and Robertson retired and isn't an effective development tool. Now we don't have a sevens leg what's the following the national side even has in Scotland? I can't imagine anyone watches the sevens legs often.

I disagree. Admittedly it's not great as a pure development tool, but even recently we've seen Kyle Rowe go from 7s to pro and then the national squad in fairly short order. And it's handy for the two pro teams to have access to an additional bank of players who are fit and conditioned and have the skills to step up if there is need in the main squad.

It also doesn't say much for Scottish ambitions for a 3rd development pro team if a 7s squad isn't sustainable.

Kyle Rowe had two years of 20s and then a one of the better players in the s6 was put on the sevens as he couldn't get gametime with a pro club (as is usually the case for 7s players it's a warehouse rather than development tool). He worked nights at Amazon when his 7s contract was taken away and got a gig with London Irish. The SRU don't deserve any credit at all for Kyle Rowe as they didn't give him a pro contract because they didn't think he was good enough even after his 7s contract was torn up post covid which is a clear failure in scouting.

Look at the current 7s squad. There's one academy player in there Jacob Henry (warehousing him because he can't get in an Edinburgh back 3 and also did very well in the super6), Sofolarin a student at Newcastle, a few veterans e.g. Farndale and Ferguson (who the 7s did resurrect post cancer and that's great but a lot of money for at best club back ups) and then a load of super6s best players - Barretto, Elms etc. (Who then missed the sprint and so it wasn't as high quality as the first time round). So at the minute it's not doing any development, it's weakening the super6 and as is no doubt quite expensive.

If we kept the Murrayfield leg investment in a core group and using the 7s to attract kids would be the way to go. But we didn't, so there's little visibility of 7s and it's not being used for anything productive currently and I'd argue is actively weakening the super6 and academy players development because it's too easy to say give them 2 legs of the sevens and that's great development time. Without a plan it really is not.

I'd also argue the conditioning element is not that helpful - I listened to Ciaran Beattie on the SRU post and he and Paterson spoke at length that it takes time to get to "sevens conditioning" because it's completely different to 15s conditioning. Not sure how helpful that is for someone like Jacob Henry who has to be conditioned for pro rugby, then gets sevens conditioned, then has to transition back to pro condition. Obviously less of an issue for the super6 boys.

A third pro team is not sustainable as well know. But the problem is different for the sevens. It's a different sport than even dyed in the wool fans like us barely watch because it's two days every few months and the team you want to watch plays am hour spread across a day.

Tattie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:46 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:36 pm I think it's a smart decision. The sevens team is crap, has been since the likes of Wight and Robertson retired and isn't an effective development tool. Now we don't have a sevens leg what's the following the national side even has in Scotland? I can't imagine anyone watches the sevens legs often.

Might as well ditch the U20s in that case.

Just another erosion of the number of Scottish players playing high level rugby. The SRU should be doing all they can to expand the game not contract it.

Quick question if you will - how many current Scotland internationals have played under20s and then how many have played 7s?

And I'll be generous you can include Kinghorns two 7s legs after he'd played 2 years of pro rugby for Edinburgh and Bennett's sevens years after he'd played for Glasgow.

Or players who didn't play in the u20s but did play 7s who then went pro. You can have Kyle Steyn despite the circumference there.

The 7s is not now nor has ever been an effective player development tool. The u20s is.

The 7s should be used to increase interest in rugby as it's more accessible to 15s but we don't need a national team for that.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:50 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:46 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:36 pm I think it's a smart decision. The sevens team is crap, has been since the likes of Wight and Robertson retired and isn't an effective development tool. Now we don't have a sevens leg what's the following the national side even has in Scotland? I can't imagine anyone watches the sevens legs often.

Might as well ditch the U20s in that case.

Just another erosion of the number of Scottish players playing high level rugby. The SRU should be doing all they can to expand the game not contract it.

Quick question if you will - how many current Scotland internationals have played under20s and then how many have played 7s?

And I'll be generous you can include Kinghorns two 7s legs after he'd played 2 years of pro rugby for Edinburgh and Bennett's sevens years after he'd played for Glasgow.

That’s a poor argument. How many adults/kids from teams throughout Scotland have ever made it to the national team? Let’s just ditch all those teams too.

The more players playing at all levels can only be a good thing. I don’t think Ireland’s success is down to them intentionally shrinking participation at all levels, the opposite infact.

Tattie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:02 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:50 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:46 pm

Might as well ditch the U20s in that case.

Just another erosion of the number of Scottish players playing high level rugby. The SRU should be doing all they can to expand the game not contract it.

Quick question if you will - how many current Scotland internationals have played under20s and then how many have played 7s?

And I'll be generous you can include Kinghorns two 7s legs after he'd played 2 years of pro rugby for Edinburgh and Bennett's sevens years after he'd played for Glasgow.

That’s a poor argument. How many adults/kids from teams throughout Scotland have ever made it to the national team? Let’s just ditch all those teams too.

The more players playing at all levels can only be a good thing. I don’t think Ireland’s success is down to them intentionally shrinking participation at all levels, the opposite intact.

The better argument is the sevens is a separate sport requiring separate skills and fitness. But you didn't accept that. Look at how basically every country uses it - none of them really for development of 15s players. We should use it for participation but the fitness required means it's only really kids and good standard players who can play it. Sevens and touch should be used as a summer gateway for rugby union but we don't need a national team for either.

Ireland's success has nothing to do with 7s as they ignored it for years. It can't be the opposite as they didn't even have a sevens team until 6 or so years back. Their current squads are usually players who don't make pro clubs and they want to warehouse them too. Keenan came through right enough. But it's not a key part of their player development pathway at all.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:05 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:02 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:50 pm

Quick question if you will - how many current Scotland internationals have played under20s and then how many have played 7s?

And I'll be generous you can include Kinghorns two 7s legs after he'd played 2 years of pro rugby for Edinburgh and Bennett's sevens years after he'd played for Glasgow.

That’s a poor argument. How many adults/kids from teams throughout Scotland have ever made it to the national team? Let’s just ditch all those teams too.

The more players playing at all levels can only be a good thing. I don’t think Ireland’s success is down to them intentionally shrinking participation at all levels, the opposite intact.

The better argument is the sevens is a separate sport requiring separate skills and fitness. But you didn't accept that. Look at how basically every country uses it - none of them really for development of 15s players. We should use it for participation but the fitness required means it's only really kids and good standard players who can play it. Sevens and touch should be used as a summer gateway for rugby union but we don't need a national team for either.

Ireland's success has nothing to do with 7s as they ignored it for years. It can't be the opposite as they didn't even have a sevens team until 6 or so years back. Their current squads are usually players who don't make pro clubs and they want to warehouse them too. Keenan came through right enough. But it's not a key part of their player development pathway at all.

A better idea then would be for us just to ditch international 7s altogether (I’m a little uncomfortable with that due to the historical significance of 7s in Scotland). I would much rather that than the SRU part-funding what will basically be an England side.

All or nothing.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:50 pm
Kyle Rowe had two years of 20s and then a one of the better players in the s6 was put on the sevens as he couldn't get gametime with a pro club (as is usually the case for 7s players it's a warehouse rather than development tool). He worked nights at Amazon when his 7s contract was taken away and got a gig with London Irish. The SRU don't deserve any credit at all for Kyle Rowe as they didn't give him a pro contract because they didn't think he was good enough even after his 7s contract was torn up post covid which is a clear failure in scouting.

How do you think Rowe ended up on London Irish's radar though? It's almost certain that it involved video footage of him playing on the World 7s circuit.

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:29 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:50 pm
Kyle Rowe had two years of 20s and then a one of the better players in the s6 was put on the sevens as he couldn't get gametime with a pro club (as is usually the case for 7s players it's a warehouse rather than development tool). He worked nights at Amazon when his 7s contract was taken away and got a gig with London Irish. The SRU don't deserve any credit at all for Kyle Rowe as they didn't give him a pro contract because they didn't think he was good enough even after his 7s contract was torn up post covid which is a clear failure in scouting.

How do you think Rowe ended up on London Irish's radar though? It's almost certain that it involved video footage of him playing on the World 7s circuit.

He was on the books at Edinburgh (assume they picked him up mid season). Couldn't get a game though.

No idea how he got on the radar at LI but props to whoever made that call. To be fair, a lot of his best highlight footage was him playing for Ayr or the U20s

He's got a ruptured ACL by the way, so will be out the picture for a good while.

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:29 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:50 pm
Kyle Rowe had two years of 20s and then a one of the better players in the s6 was put on the sevens as he couldn't get gametime with a pro club (as is usually the case for 7s players it's a warehouse rather than development tool). He worked nights at Amazon when his 7s contract was taken away and got a gig with London Irish. The SRU don't deserve any credit at all for Kyle Rowe as they didn't give him a pro contract because they didn't think he was good enough even after his 7s contract was torn up post covid which is a clear failure in scouting.

How do you think Rowe ended up on London Irish's radar though? It's almost certain that it involved video footage of him playing on the World 7s circuit.

Potentially, but he only played 5 legs and they signed him about a year after despite him not having a contract so seems unlikely.

In any case, he wasn't on the sevens as a development tool as they SRU as he was released by the SRU when the 7s ground to a halt, if the long term plan was for him to develop on the 7s then sign for a pro team he would have signed for a pro team. It shows the sevens is not being used as a specific development tool and it's not treated as a separate sport we can build a side for. So what's it really for? What's the plan? The halfway house serves nobody because we aren't good at 7s and it's not developing anyone.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:49 am Laura Muir 3rd and Jake Wightman first at the World Championship 1500m, that’s pretty cool

And Josh Kerr (brother of Jake Kerr) 5th in the 1500.

Jemma Reekie was 4th in the Olympic 800 and she still has to run.

Scotland, middle distance super power.

I may have missed something in the posts about the Sevens, but there is no point in debating it as it is a World Rugby decision to align with the Olympics.

As far as I can see there was no choice.

Playing devils advocate here, if we see sevens as a development tool and we think we have one or two players who might become 15s professionals from the experience, do we think they will develop more in a team scraping around in 12th place hoping to win the bowl, or in a team potentially challenging for the title in the main cup competition?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:57 am Playing devils advocate here, if we see sevens as a development tool and we think we have one or two players who might become 15s professionals from the experience, do we think they will develop more in a team scraping around in 12th place hoping to win the bowl, or in a team potentially challenging for the title in the main cup competition?

Team GB won't be interested in developing 15s players. It'll come down to as Tattie said a mostly English side (but he's incorrect in that they'll be using it for development. The RFU do not use the 7s as a development tool, if a club wants to sign a player from them have at it but they aren't trying to develop the 7s boys for union) with Farndale and a couple other stallwarts in there. If you're competing for titles you won't want a 21 year old academy player who lacks experience and 7s fitness/know how.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:57 am Playing devils advocate here, if we see sevens as a development tool and we think we have one or two players who might become 15s professionals from the experience, do we think they will develop more in a team scraping around in 12th place hoping to win the bowl, or in a team potentially challenging for the title in the main cup competition?

How concerned do you think the RFU coaches in charge of the GB team will be about developing Scottish players? Presumably there will be some sort of quota for selection but there will be different focus and priorities in the GB setup.

I don't think it is just a development tool though. It's keeping fringe pro players motivated and involved in high level competition and it's part of the pyramid for players that want to progress. If you are playing in the Super 6, if you perform well you might be one of the 2-3 players the pro teams look at or with the 7s you might play some representative rugby and spend more of your year playing and training. There will be fewer opportunities now.

robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:28 am
How concerned do you think the RFU coaches in charge of the GB team will be about developing Scottish players?

Will it be just RFU coaches in charge and doing the selecting?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:34 am

robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:28 am
How concerned do you think the RFU coaches in charge of the GB team will be about developing Scottish players?

Will it be just RFU coaches in charge and doing the selecting?

The coaching will be interesting as you would think they'll want specialist 7s coaches rather than the development path coaching Scotland goes for so hard to know who we'd ever put forward.

Embra's opening fixtures of the big cup


Heineken Champions Cup pool stage fixtures
Round 1 – Saracens (A) on w/o 9/10/11 December
Round 2 – Castres (H) on w/o 16/17/18 December
Round 3 – Castres (A) on w/o 13/14/15 January
Round 4 – Saracens (H) on w/o 20/21/22 January

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/454e ... a9b7fff406

This is very interesting.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:27 pm https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/454e ... a9b7fff406

This is very interesting.

Looks like Mark Palmer is not on Team Toonie.

robmatic wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:32 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:27 pm https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/454e ... a9b7fff406

This is very interesting.

Looks like Mark Palmer is not on Team Toonie.

Yeah. I’m still in the careful what you wish for camp

Touting Mike Blair for the job in '23 is lunacy.

He has to win something at Edinburgh first, then he should go and work with a big club in France or England, then perhaps look at the Scotland job.

I want Blair to stay at Edinburgh for at least another four years, and if we don't win anything it will be in the knowledge that he took the squad as far as it could possibly go, whilst bringing on young guys like Currie, Henry, Brown and others and overseeing them develop in to fully fledged international players.

robmatic wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:32 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:27 pm https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/454e ... a9b7fff406

This is very interesting.

Looks like Mark Palmer is not on Team Toonie.

He has been off team Toonie since last year. It is crazy how in toonie's tenure we have one top half six nations finish. I thought it would be more.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:52 pm Touting Mike Blair for the job in '23 is lunacy.

He has to win something at Edinburgh first, then he should go and work with a big club in France or England, then perhaps look at the Scotland job.

I want Blair to stay at Edinburgh for at least another four years, and if we don't win anything it will be in the knowledge that he took the squad as far as it could possibly go, whilst bringing on young guys like Currie, Henry, Brown and others and overseeing them develop in to fully fledged international players.

Yeah, he still has to prove he can maintain the base that Cockerill out in place of being a club, fighting for each other, having self imposed discipline etc, rather than just layering something extra on top of an existing setup but fading when the existing but is neglected.