dpedin wrote: Sat Apr 05, 2025 8:15 am
EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! [cut]
Yeeb said the EU retaliated with tariffs, a few times on this thread - par for the course coming from your average Brexiteer. Although in his case, seemingly ex-Brexiteer? ex-Brexit-curious, in rehab?
Trans Brexit.
Trexiteer?
Ex brexiteer ?
Lolz, if anything this past week as bolstered the successful case for Brexit. We may yet come through relatively unscathed with our lower tariffs am& service based economy , Starmers best course of action may well be take no action for now, an international political equivalent of heading down the Winchester and having a pint and waiting for it to blow over.
EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!
You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..
And with this I think we are done here!
Lolz, you lose again it seems. Kid yourself all you want about Brexit or that it was done for economic or trading basis reasons, look where the votes were, average person has no interest or understanding about economics or trade
To be clear, I am not disagreeing with you in the slightest re voting decisions having very real impacts on economics. But your method of comparing apples with oranges is warped because of your own agenda
Uk didn’t impose extra tariffs though , the remaining EU did, as at the time didn’t need any UK money, military capacity or world influence.
Remains to be seen how Trump lunacy pans out for world trade , right now uk has gained a bit comparatively
EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!
You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..
The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity
Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much
EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!
You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..
The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity
Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much
I agree 100%!
However we are trying to play chess against a pigeon when trying to discuss this seriously with Yeeb. Happy for you to take over the mantle, I gave up.
EU didnt impose tariffs on the UK ... we asked them to! The UK decided leave the club, to step out of the EU, SM and CU and therefore chose to become a '3rd country' in the eyes of the EU and be subject to all the rules and regulations that brings with it, many of which were designed and voted for by the UK when we were a member. We, by voting for Brexit, decided to impose all the various financial and non financial barriers to trade with the EU upon ourselves. We knew what the consequences were, it was just that many decided to ignore the realities and decided self delusion was a better option than cold hard economics. TO make matters worse we left without a proper deal to help minimize the impact of leaving and ever since we left we have been trying hard to minimize the self harm through things like the TCA but that does require us to become a rule taker rather than a rule maker in areas such as agriculture, etc. As with the US tariffs and the rest of the world, Brexit was a decision to create additional barriers to trade with our biggest, closest and most important markets. Putting aside all the bullshit about Sovrenty etc from a purely economic and trading basis it was taking a shotgun to one of not both our knees!
You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..
The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity
Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much
Agree with all of that, expecting all of the benefits without paying for the club fees was bonkers. It’s nice that a lot of dust has settled and a fair number of things have sort of kept the status quo just with more admin.
The ‘more people coming in’ is also sadly true , there have been decades where we could have made our borders tougher but didn’t, and it still baffles me why don’t is so inept at preventing HMS poolshitter docking daily. I maintain that Brexit only occurred because of immigration & the population free movement 4th pillar.
Trump & Putin / Ukraine have forced somewhat the bendy bananas and 350m side of buses onto the back burner thank goodness, Uk and Eu seemed more aligned now on the important stuff.
You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..
The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity
Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much
I agree 100%!
However we are trying to play chess against a pigeon when trying to discuss this seriously with Yeeb. Happy for you to take over the mantle, I gave up.
You seem to casually forgot things like Ursula & her ‘real teeth’ speech, the EV tariffs saga, the French PM requests, how EU treated say Switzerland …
FWIW I don’t blame EU at all for the actions post brexit and trying to set an example , but to somehow say the uk requested the tariffs is a bit warped. Another somewhat major difference is that Brexit was (in theory) done for political reasons not economic, and trumps tariffs bonanza done for economic reasons. But yeah, apart from all those differences , it’s exactly the same …..
The UK, well some Tory Brexit loons, didn't want tariffs but wanted to stay in the trading club without paying dues and without being tied by similar regulation. But that's utterly ignorant as to how trade works and what that would have meant for the access of others outside the EU trading block into EU markets had the EU even tried to allow the UK an odd get out of jail free card. Here we are years later, with a vastly expanded civil service, and less access to our major international trading parters, and all because of some lying and rancid misunderstanding of let's spend £350 million a week on the NHS instead and that a huge number of people are racist, really the only amusing part is they ended up with more people coming in who aren't white as a reward for their racism/stupidity
Now there's a fair argument these trading clubs are inherently unfair when looking to global trade and especially global poverty, but they are what they are. In essence if you step outside the single market then you've stepped outside , and saying Get Brexit Done or Brexit means Brexit doesn't mean anything, bar I suppose one of those idiotic slogans will win you votes from lunatics and the other not so much
I agree 100%!
However we are trying to play chess against a pigeon when trying to discuss this seriously with Yeeb. Happy for you to take over the mantle, I gave up.
Yeeb is on ignore, so I might bother to look at 1 in 10 posts.
More widely it'll be interesting to see what trade deal with the EU is developed by Canada, especially if Carney wins power. That could be something we'd want to join, it could prove very useful, and you might even get interest from Australia, Japan, NZ...
The USA, certainly the current GOP, and China would hate it, not sure what India might make of it. It would be a hell of a power base, and drag the EU away from some of its focus on culture back to being a trading block. Whatever standards were set by such group would prove hugely influential
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 1:58 pm
by Insane_Homer
Back in New York, the main US indexes have slid further in the first few minutes of trade.
The Dow Jones is now down 4.4%, the S&P 500 has lost 4.7% while the Nasdaq has fallen 5%.
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:02 pm
by Rhubarb & Custard
Be nice, Trump said the tariffs are going to make then 'wealthy again like never before'. There is something of a poetry to his asininity
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:03 pm
by Rhubarb & Custard
Does anyone know the details as to what's going on in the voting shenanigans for a place on the North Carolina Supreme Court?
Seemingly after the Democratic candidate won, and won a recount (or two), there has been a push to set aside the votes of over 50,000 legal voters absent them stumping up voting ID inside either 8 or 15 days, and it's a close race so if around 800 voters don't show who voted Democratic the GOP will hold the position.
Are the reasons for discounting votes valid, desirable, or just out and out BS? (And fwiw the move will in particular hit families of US service personnel working overseas)
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 4:09 pm
by geordie_6
After China stated they would impose retaliatory tariffs of 34%, the Toxic Wotsit has spilled the ketchup and demanded they remove them or face additional tariffs of 50%.
"How dare you respond appropriately to my batshit economic policies..."
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 4:10 pm
by geordie_6
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:03 pm
Does anyone know the details as to what's going on in the voting shenanigans for a place on the North Carolina Supreme Court?
Seemingly after the Democratic candidate won, and won a recount (or two), there has been a push to set aside the votes of over 50,000 legal voters absent them stumping up voting ID inside either 8 or 15 days, and it's a close race so if around 800 voters don't show who voted Democratic the GOP will hold the position.
Are the reasons for discounting votes valid, desirable, or just out and out BS? (And fwiw the move will in particular hit families of US service personnel working overseas)
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:03 pm
Does anyone know the details as to what's going on in the voting shenanigans for a place on the North Carolina Supreme Court?
Seemingly after the Democratic candidate won, and won a recount (or two), there has been a push to set aside the votes of over 50,000 legal voters absent them stumping up voting ID inside either 8 or 15 days, and it's a close race so if around 800 voters don't show who voted Democratic the GOP will hold the position.
Are the reasons for discounting votes valid, desirable, or just out and out BS? (And fwiw the move will in particular hit families of US service personnel working overseas)
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:03 pm
Does anyone know the details as to what's going on in the voting shenanigans for a place on the North Carolina Supreme Court?
Seemingly after the Democratic candidate won, and won a recount (or two), there has been a push to set aside the votes of over 50,000 legal voters absent them stumping up voting ID inside either 8 or 15 days, and it's a close race so if around 800 voters don't show who voted Democratic the GOP will hold the position.
Are the reasons for discounting votes valid, desirable, or just out and out BS? (And fwiw the move will in particular hit families of US service personnel working overseas)
Was that the race that Muskrat threw $25m at?
Nope, that was Wisconsin
Thanks
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 7:03 pm
by Niegs
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:03 pm
Does anyone know the details as to what's going on in the voting shenanigans for a place on the North Carolina Supreme Court?
Seemingly after the Democratic candidate won, and won a recount (or two), there has been a push to set aside the votes of over 50,000 legal voters absent them stumping up voting ID inside either 8 or 15 days, and it's a close race so if around 800 voters don't show who voted Democratic the GOP will hold the position.
Are the reasons for discounting votes valid, desirable, or just out and out BS? (And fwiw the move will in particular hit families of US service personnel working overseas)
I think the crux from last week is...
In the ruling, the Republican majority involved in the decision ordered that a group of more than 65,000 voters, whose eligibility was challenged by Republican Supreme Court candidate Jefferson Griffin and his lawyers, now have 15 business days to provide state elections officials with the necessary proof of identity that would verify their votes.
A disgrace but I guess they've sewed enough doubt over voter ID down there? Hopefully people are motivated enough to confirm or alert people who might not be following. I can't even fathom the level of mental gymnastics needed for judges to feel this kind of supression is okay. It's evil.
Insane_Homer wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:50 am
Markets continue their nosedive today.
Dax down almost 10% early on recovered to 7%
CAC 6%
TFSE 6%
Hang Seng closed 13.22%
Any comments on where the money is going? It can't all be going into bonds and gold, even before many indices will even be required to hold securities
It's gone. This is something people don't appreciate. It's not all tucked away somewhere, there is now less money in our economy, in everyone's economy.
It should be noted that markets like Taiwan are limited in their allowed drop/ day. The key point though for places like Hong Kong and Taiwan where the relative cost of housing is so high is that a huge number of average Joe’s borrow money to invest in stocks to try to get ahead. It’s carnage in Taiwan at the moment.
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:03 pm
Does anyone know the details as to what's going on in the voting shenanigans for a place on the North Carolina Supreme Court?
Seemingly after the Democratic candidate won, and won a recount (or two), there has been a push to set aside the votes of over 50,000 legal voters absent them stumping up voting ID inside either 8 or 15 days, and it's a close race so if around 800 voters don't show who voted Democratic the GOP will hold the position.
Are the reasons for discounting votes valid, desirable, or just out and out BS? (And fwiw the move will in particular hit families of US service personnel working overseas)
I think the crux from last week is...
In the ruling, the Republican majority involved in the decision ordered that a group of more than 65,000 voters, whose eligibility was challenged by Republican Supreme Court candidate Jefferson Griffin and his lawyers, now have 15 business days to provide state elections officials with the necessary proof of identity that would verify their votes.
A disgrace but I guess they've sewed enough doubt over voter ID down there? Hopefully people are motivated enough to confirm or alert people who might not be following. I can't even fathom the level of mental gymnastics needed for judges to feel this kind of supression is okay. It's evil.
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:03 pm
Does anyone know the details as to what's going on in the voting shenanigans for a place on the North Carolina Supreme Court?
Seemingly after the Democratic candidate won, and won a recount (or two), there has been a push to set aside the votes of over 50,000 legal voters absent them stumping up voting ID inside either 8 or 15 days, and it's a close race so if around 800 voters don't show who voted Democratic the GOP will hold the position.
Are the reasons for discounting votes valid, desirable, or just out and out BS? (And fwiw the move will in particular hit families of US service personnel working overseas)
I think the crux from last week is...
In the ruling, the Republican majority involved in the decision ordered that a group of more than 65,000 voters, whose eligibility was challenged by Republican Supreme Court candidate Jefferson Griffin and his lawyers, now have 15 business days to provide state elections officials with the necessary proof of identity that would verify their votes.
A disgrace but I guess they've sewed enough doubt over voter ID down there? Hopefully people are motivated enough to confirm or alert people who might not be following. I can't even fathom the level of mental gymnastics needed for judges to feel this kind of supression is okay. It's evil.
just wondering how much if any legitimacy might be attached to supposed concerns around voter ID?
both sides have statements out, what the truth might be I don't know
Another update ...
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 3:57 am
by Gumboot
It seems that Judge Jefferson Griffin has been a fan of disenfranchising voters for quite some time.
Here he is as a student at the University of North Carolina way back in 2001...
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 4:20 am
by Niegs
I like this analogy summing up Trumps view on trade deficits (aka 'subsidizing other countries')
Last year I bought 125 loaves of bread from the bakery. But the bakery didn't buy anything from me. I'm not going to get ripped off anymore. What a nasty baker.
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 5:15 am
by Uncle fester
Niegs wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 4:20 am
I like this analogy summing up Trumps view on trade deficits (aka 'subsidizing other countries')
Last year I bought 125 loaves of bread from the bakery. But the bakery didn't buy anything from me. I'm not going to get ripped off anymore. What a nasty baker.
The Baker should pay me a fee for the privilege of selling to me.
Niegs wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 4:20 am
I like this analogy summing up Trumps view on trade deficits (aka 'subsidizing other countries')
Last year I bought 125 loaves of bread from the bakery. But the bakery didn't buy anything from me. I'm not going to get ripped off anymore. What a nasty baker.
The Baker should pay me a fee for the privilege of selling to me.
If you negotiate up front (without being an orange cnut) to buy 150 loaves this year, you’ll likely get a discount.
It should be noted that markets like Taiwan are limited in their allowed drop/ day. The key point though for places like Hong Kong and Taiwan where the relative cost of housing is so high is that a huge number of average Joe’s borrow money to invest in stocks to try to get ahead. It’s carnage in Taiwan at the moment.
[/quote]
The same systems are in place in Japan, for both falls and rises in a given day. The circuit breakers almost kicked in last Friday.
Yeeb said the EU retaliated with tariffs, a few times on this thread - par for the course coming from your average Brexiteer. Although in his case, seemingly ex-Brexiteer? ex-Brexit-curious, in rehab?
Trans Brexit.
Trexiteer?
Ex brexiteer ?
Lolz, if anything this past week as bolstered the successful case for Brexit. We may yet come through relatively unscathed with our lower tariffs am& service based economy , Starmers best course of action may well be take no action for now, an international political equivalent of heading down the Winchester and having a pint and waiting for it to blow over.
If everyone is tariffed to the eyeballs and the UK decides not to be, then any goods business the UK has (or desires to have) will be under fierce competition at home (low/no tariffs = comparatively low barriers to entry for foreign producers) and not be able to expand outside the UK that easily. On the other side of the coin prices will be low for UK consumers who have money.
Where the Brexit problem comes back is if the UK does increase tariffs to protect UK goods, those producers may then survive but are then locked into a small market compared to US/EU/China. Which means over time they could become uncompetitive compared to rivals from those markets without the protection of tariffs, maybe higher prices for UK consumers too.
Not so much of a problem for the UK because it's a services based economy. But is a big headache for anyone who thought the structure of the economy was creating problems. Places all the eggs into the services basket.
Ex brexiteer ?
Lolz, if anything this past week as bolstered the successful case for Brexit. We may yet come through relatively unscathed with our lower tariffs am& service based economy , Starmers best course of action may well be take no action for now, an international political equivalent of heading down the Winchester and having a pint and waiting for it to blow over.
If everyone is tariffed to the eyeballs and the UK decides not to be, then any goods business the UK has (or desires to have) will be under fierce competition at home (low/no tariffs = comparatively low barriers to entry for foreign producers) and not be able to expand outside the UK that easily. On the other side of the coin prices will be low for UK consumers who have money.
Where the Brexit problem comes back is if the UK does increase tariffs to protect UK goods, those producers may then survive but are then locked into a small market compared to US/EU/China. Which means over time they could become uncompetitive compared to rivals from those markets without the protection of tariffs, maybe higher prices for UK consumers too.
Not so much of a problem for the UK because it's a services based economy. But is a big headache for anyone who thought the structure of the economy was creating problems. Places all the eggs into the services basket.
Indeed, precisely two hours and 17 minutes after insisting that his policies would never change, Trump returned to Truth Social to announce excitedly that the policies were going to change: “Just had a very productive call with To Lam, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, who told me that Vietnam wants to cut their Tariffs down to ZERO if they are able to make an agreement with the U.S. I thanked him on behalf of our Country, and said I look forward to a meeting in the near future.”
This bit of commentary perhaps bother me more than the rest. Because the Vietnamese response to the USA killing millions of its citizens was to rebuild their shattered nation/economy and as part of that sell unto the Americans things the Americans wanted. And for that Trump wants to deliver them unto poverty. Deplorable doesn't even come close for Trump, no doubt he'll raise the America first agenda, but by heavens he's a piece of shit (with perhaps apologies being needed here to redeem the good name of shit)
He's done the same thing to AGOA. It was an FTA which allowed African countries that met democratic standards tariff free access to the US. It was disguised aid. Trump has decided any trade deficit is bad and must be eliminated. Lesotho grew a textiles industry which exported to the US under AGOA, they're poor and buy not much from the US, which means a trade deficit. Lesotho goods entering the US now have a 50% tariff.
I'm sure all this will help with his anti-China policy. Making lots of friends.
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 7:38 am
by Rhubarb & Custard
Niegs wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 1:18 am
Another update ...
I'm not sure BTC is the impartial take I'd be after
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 9:55 am
by Hal Jordan
I for one am shocked that the right wing arseholes that successive GOP adminsitrations have installed in the Supreme Court with the intention of an effective takeover of all institutions by right wing arseholes have sided with the rascist in chief's deportation policies.
Ex brexiteer ?
Lolz, if anything this past week as bolstered the successful case for Brexit. We may yet come through relatively unscathed with our lower tariffs am& service based economy , Starmers best course of action may well be take no action for now, an international political equivalent of heading down the Winchester and having a pint and waiting for it to blow over.
If everyone is tariffed to the eyeballs and the UK decides not to be, then any goods business the UK has (or desires to have) will be under fierce competition at home (low/no tariffs = comparatively low barriers to entry for foreign producers) and not be able to expand outside the UK that easily. On the other side of the coin prices will be low for UK consumers who have money.
Where the Brexit problem comes back is if the UK does increase tariffs to protect UK goods, those producers may then survive but are then locked into a small market compared to US/EU/China. Which means over time they could become uncompetitive compared to rivals from those markets without the protection of tariffs, maybe higher prices for UK consumers too.
Not so much of a problem for the UK because it's a services based economy. But is a big headache for anyone who thought the structure of the economy was creating problems. Places all the eggs into the services basket.
Uk eggs have been in services basket for about 4 decades so no real change there. Brexit analogy is amusing to me as economic effects were not the main purpose of it, unlike trumps tariffs. You are choosing to only see one side of what tariffs are and who pays them , and what will actually benefit people in the Uk more. - fierce competition seems to be a bad thing for you? If these Trump tariffs remain (I doubt they will last 5 mins) then there is in theory plenty of opportunity for a Euro manufacturer to ‘make’ something in the Uk before shipping to the US, the extra costs of putting a badge on outweighed by saving 10% to the importer in the US.
This is just weapons grade sabre rattling from the Don, using financial Nukes. His associates I’m sure are making a killing on trading right now as this is market manipulation and scaremonging with dial turns up to 11
Ex brexiteer ?
Lolz, if anything this past week as bolstered the successful case for Brexit. We may yet come through relatively unscathed with our lower tariffs am& service based economy , Starmers best course of action may well be take no action for now, an international political equivalent of heading down the Winchester and having a pint and waiting for it to blow over.
If everyone is tariffed to the eyeballs and the UK decides not to be, then any goods business the UK has (or desires to have) will be under fierce competition at home (low/no tariffs = comparatively low barriers to entry for foreign producers) and not be able to expand outside the UK that easily. On the other side of the coin prices will be low for UK consumers who have money.
Where the Brexit problem comes back is if the UK does increase tariffs to protect UK goods, those producers may then survive but are then locked into a small market compared to US/EU/China. Which means over time they could become uncompetitive compared to rivals from those markets without the protection of tariffs, maybe higher prices for UK consumers too.
Not so much of a problem for the UK because it's a services based economy. But is a big headache for anyone who thought the structure of the economy was creating problems. Places all the eggs into the services basket.
Uk eggs have been in services basket for about 4 decades so no real change there. Brexit analogy is amusing to me as economic effects were not the main purpose of it, unlike trumps tariffs. You are choosing to only see one side of what tariffs are and who pays them , and what will actually benefit people in the Uk more. - fierce competition seems to be a bad thing for you? If these Trump tariffs remain (I doubt they will last 5 mins) then there is in theory plenty of opportunity for a Euro manufacturer to ‘make’ something in the Uk before shipping to the US, the extra costs of putting a badge on outweighed by saving 10% to the importer in the US.
This is just weapons grade sabre rattling from the Don, using financial Nukes. His associates I’m sure are making a killing on trading right now as this is market manipulation and scaremonging with dial turns up to 11
Competition is bad if the game is zero sum and you cannot win. Which is why UK agri has been protected.
Brexit was about the economics. If we park that the Brexiters talked up the sunlit uplands (indeed there was a time when Brexiters said it was racist to say it was all about immigration). Lots of the areas which voted Brexit lost their industrial base because it wasn't competitive, then had little to no investment from government, then had austerity dumped disproportionately onto them. This was all blamed on immigrants, even though those areas typically are very white British. The UK economy being services and London focused, is where a lot of the political problems ultimately come from. That manifests as continually raging about immigrants.
Why would an EU manufacturer want to use the UK as a bridge? Can you drive a truck from the UK to the US? Surely the better move would be to setup in the US if the EU manufacturer thought setting up in the UK was economically viable then the US itself would be more viable? Trump has also invented something called "secondary tariffs", clearly copying the idea of secondary sanctions, if he thinks a country is being used to circumvent then that country will be tariffed at the same rate as the country using it to circumvent.
_Os_ wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 7:12 am
If everyone is tariffed to the eyeballs and the UK decides not to be, then any goods business the UK has (or desires to have) will be under fierce competition at home (low/no tariffs = comparatively low barriers to entry for foreign producers) and not be able to expand outside the UK that easily. On the other side of the coin prices will be low for UK consumers who have money.
Where the Brexit problem comes back is if the UK does increase tariffs to protect UK goods, those producers may then survive but are then locked into a small market compared to US/EU/China. Which means over time they could become uncompetitive compared to rivals from those markets without the protection of tariffs, maybe higher prices for UK consumers too.
Not so much of a problem for the UK because it's a services based economy. But is a big headache for anyone who thought the structure of the economy was creating problems. Places all the eggs into the services basket.
Uk eggs have been in services basket for about 4 decades so no real change there. Brexit analogy is amusing to me as economic effects were not the main purpose of it, unlike trumps tariffs. You are choosing to only see one side of what tariffs are and who pays them , and what will actually benefit people in the Uk more. - fierce competition seems to be a bad thing for you? If these Trump tariffs remain (I doubt they will last 5 mins) then there is in theory plenty of opportunity for a Euro manufacturer to ‘make’ something in the Uk before shipping to the US, the extra costs of putting a badge on outweighed by saving 10% to the importer in the US.
This is just weapons grade sabre rattling from the Don, using financial Nukes. His associates I’m sure are making a killing on trading right now as this is market manipulation and scaremonging with dial turns up to 11
Competition is bad if the game is zero sum and you cannot win. Which is why UK agri has been protected.
Brexit was about the economics. If we park that the Brexiters talked up the sunlit uplands (indeed there was a time when Brexiters said it was racist to say it was all about immigration). Lots of the areas which voted Brexit were in areas which lost their industrial base because it wasn't competitive, then had little to no investment from government, then had austerity dumped disproportionately onto them. This was all blamed on the immigrants, even though those areas typically are very white British. The UK economy being services and London focused, is where a lot of the political problems ultimately come from.
Why would an EU manufacturer want to use the UK as a bridge? can you drive a truck from the UK to the US? Surely the better move would be to setup in the US if the EU manufacturer thought setting up in the UK was economically viable then the US itself would be more viable? Trump has also invented something called "secondary tariffs", clearly copying the idea of secondary sanctions, if he thinks a country is being used to circumvent then that country will be tariffed at the same rate as the country using it to circumvent.
It really wasn’t about economics , the areas that voted for Brexit had lost their industrial base & in some cases raison d etre , before uk even joined the EEC. Average Joe cares little about economics and even less about cross border tariffs, stock markets , bendy bananas - but do care when they can play spot the honky, or perceive pool shitters getting housing ahead of army veterans, or food coupons etc. economic effect of all these forrins is actually pretty small, especially compared to what uk spends now on debt repayments , and especially state pensions . Trying to somehow say our world class services sector is to blame , is odd - it’s all competitive advantage , turns out our financial services sector for example was better performer globally than our shipbuilding sector was.
Not disagreeing at all with the London bit though , far too dominant and regional policy has failed UK for decades.
Secondary tariffs and actual ‘where were things actually made’ is as impossible to police as it is easy to circumvent , Trump will have more problems with his own beloved car industry whose chains involve Canada and Mexico , than to worry about stellantis sticking a badge on a car in ellesmere and claiming it British. It’s one reason all his ‘they don’t buy from us, it’s unfair’ is such bullshit
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 11:04 am
by Sandstorm
Trump's Tariffs are even more batshit that Truss' proposed tax changes in 2022. Sadly you can't just dump a US President for being an economic idiot.
Uk eggs have been in services basket for about 4 decades so no real change there. Brexit analogy is amusing to me as economic effects were not the main purpose of it, unlike trumps tariffs. You are choosing to only see one side of what tariffs are and who pays them , and what will actually benefit people in the Uk more. - fierce competition seems to be a bad thing for you? If these Trump tariffs remain (I doubt they will last 5 mins) then there is in theory plenty of opportunity for a Euro manufacturer to ‘make’ something in the Uk before shipping to the US, the extra costs of putting a badge on outweighed by saving 10% to the importer in the US.
This is just weapons grade sabre rattling from the Don, using financial Nukes. His associates I’m sure are making a killing on trading right now as this is market manipulation and scaremonging with dial turns up to 11
Competition is bad if the game is zero sum and you cannot win. Which is why UK agri has been protected.
Brexit was about the economics. If we park that the Brexiters talked up the sunlit uplands (indeed there was a time when Brexiters said it was racist to say it was all about immigration). Lots of the areas which voted Brexit were in areas which lost their industrial base because it wasn't competitive, then had little to no investment from government, then had austerity dumped disproportionately onto them. This was all blamed on the immigrants, even though those areas typically are very white British. The UK economy being services and London focused, is where a lot of the political problems ultimately come from.
Why would an EU manufacturer want to use the UK as a bridge? can you drive a truck from the UK to the US? Surely the better move would be to setup in the US if the EU manufacturer thought setting up in the UK was economically viable then the US itself would be more viable? Trump has also invented something called "secondary tariffs", clearly copying the idea of secondary sanctions, if he thinks a country is being used to circumvent then that country will be tariffed at the same rate as the country using it to circumvent.
It really wasn’t about economics , the areas that voted for Brexit had lost their industrial base & in some cases raison d etre , before uk even joined the EEC. Average Joe cares little about economics and even less about cross border tariffs, stock markets , bendy bananas - but do care when they can play spot the honky, or perceive pool shitters getting housing ahead of army veterans, or food coupons etc. economic effect of all these forrins is actually pretty small, especially compared to what uk spends now on debt repayments , and especially state pensions . Trying to somehow say our world class services sector is to blame , is odd - it’s all competitive advantage , turns out our financial services sector for example was better performer globally than our shipbuilding sector was.
Not disagreeing at all with the London bit though , far too dominant and regional policy has failed UK for decades.
The entire anti-immigrant argument is "immigration bad because they are stealing the jobs/wealth/welfare/the entire economy", it isn't what you're saying there. I agree it was based on dog whistle racism, I agree too that when a lot of people say "immigrants" they actually mean "I see people in the street who are not white". In other words they see British people who aren't white and dislike it. Thing is, the more diverse areas didn't fall for it because they also tend to be economically better off. It's why Reform is winning in areas that are poorer and overwhelmingly white British.
Obviously a more diverse economy is going to mean greater economic inclusion. If everything is put into one sector and region then some are going to lose out. The services sector is built around London and not many other places in the UK, because that's where all the state investment has gone, you just need to look at London's infrastructure to know that.
Yeeb wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 10:52 am
Secondary tariffs and actual ‘where were things actually made’ is as impossible to police as it is easy to circumvent , Trump will have more problems with his own beloved car industry whose chains involve Canada and Mexico , than to worry about stellantis sticking a badge on a car in ellesmere and claiming it British. It’s one reason all his ‘they don’t buy from us, it’s unfair’ is such bullshit
His stated goal is no trade deficits. Which means in your circumventing scenario UK exports to the US increase and he responds with higher tariffs.
Niegs wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 1:18 am
Another update ...
I'm not sure BTC is the impartial take I'd be after
No, but he talked directly with the affected candidate. Sounds like she has a plan not only to appeal the appeal but get to the people who’d need to cure votes. I assume they’d be able to mobilize a lot of volunteers to track people down… but talk about an underhanded thing to do when the race is down to 700 odd votes, after a couple (iirc) recounts, and over five months when people may have moved, military reposted, even some may have passed away. Her opponent’s picture makes me think ‘psychopath’.
Niegs wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 1:18 am
Another update ...
I'm not sure BTC is the impartial take I'd be after
No, but he talked directly with the affected candidate. Sounds like she has a plan not only to appeal the appeal but get to the people who’d need to cure votes. I assume they’d be able to mobilize a lot of volunteers to track people down… but talk about an underhanded thing to do when the race is down to 700 odd votes, after a couple (iirc) recounts, and over five months when people may have moved, military reposted, even some may have passed away. Her opponent’s picture makes me think ‘psychopath’.
I have heard from her, and she seems normal. But she's almost bound to have a political take on this and for obvious reasons.
My sense in advance would be I don't like the ruling/precedent. I merely wonder whether my sense is in any way relevant, and so is there anything of substance in the objection being raised, the only takes I've seen supporting the decisions to appeal and/or the ruling seem unhinged, but they could just be takes garnered from loons
So I'd like to slam the mess made, but I could easily be missing a very valid point
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 11:10 pm
by Enzedder
The mad ferals are starting to attack one another. And so the end begins - God knows what will be left but it's great theatre
[*]It's been a rollercoaster ride for US stocks, which have closed down as uncertainty reigns over Trump's tariff moves, after an earlier rally.
[*]Elon Musk has called Trump's tariff advisor Peter Navarro, "truly a moron" and "dumber than a sack of bricks".
[*]China faces 104% tariffs after it said it will "fight to the end" rather than take down its own retaliatory tariffs against the US. It's now started a dispute process with the World Trade Organisation.
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:26 am
by Flockwitt
The US needs computers, routers, parts for their Made in America manufacturing.
China needs… nothing from the US.
The stupid is strong about this one.
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:37 am
by Guy Smiley
Flockwitt wrote: Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:26 am
The US needs computers, routers, parts for their Made in America manufacturing.
China needs… nothing from the US.
The stupid is strong about this one.
I had a conversation with my neighbour yesterday about this. Nice guy who watches a LOT of television. He's convinced the US is in the dominant position here because they have everything they need and can be self sufficient. I suggested they couldn't manufacture a toaster to save themselves and he did see the funny side... but this Mighty US Will Stand Alone schtick is kinda weird.
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 1:16 am
by TB63
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Today, we took historic action to help American workers, miners, families and consumers. We're ending Joe Biden's war on beautiful, clean coal once and for all, and we're going to put the miners back to work!
Clean coal????wtf
Re: President Trump and US politics catchall
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 5:09 am
by Chilli2
Flockwitt wrote: Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:26 am
The US needs computers, routers, parts for their Made in America manufacturing.
China needs… nothing from the US.
The stupid is strong about this one.
China needs the US to buy the things that China manufacturers.
