NPR

Not to do with him asking to sit this one out for the birth of his child then...

I thought Sebastian did well over the summer, and he's been starting at Scarlets, I also like the look of Walker, though.

No Rambo, he also lost the Embra co-captaincy a few weeks ago, he does seem to pick up the knocks, it was ironic that he was playing at the top of his game before going off against the Lions.

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:28 pm Based on what I have seen this season Bayliss over Bradbury is a bit odd.

Dylan Richardson has been playing very well for Sharks apparently.

First choice from that would be something like

Schoey, Turner, Fagerson, Cummings, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Watson, Dempsey

Price, Kinghorn, vdMerwe, Tuipulotu, Bennett, Graham, Hogg

Cherry, Sutherland, Nel, Skinner, Crosbie/Fagerson, Redpath, Horne, Hastings

Repath may start, but he didn't look like he was at his very best last week, and I haven't seen Harris this season yet, White may be int he 23. Ashman was very good on Friday(?)

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:53 pm First choice from that would be something like

Schoey, Turner, Fagerson, Cummings, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Watson, Dempsey

Price, Kinghorn, vdMerwe, Tuipulotu, Bennett, Graham, Hogg

Cherry, Sutherland, Nel, Skinner, Crosbie/Fagerson, Redpath, Horne, Hastings

Repath may start, but he didn't look like he was at his very best last week, and I haven't seen Harris this season yet, White may be int he 23. Ashman was very good on Friday(?)

Pretty close to it for me - I'd probably put Cherry ahead of Turner for his darts.

Let's face it though, Townsend will stick with Harris and do something out of the ordinary, like, I dunno, Van der Merwe in the second row or something because he considers himself a genius.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:56 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:53 pm First choice from that would be something like

Schoey, Turner, Fagerson, Cummings, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Watson, Dempsey

Price, Kinghorn, vdMerwe, Tuipulotu, Bennett, Graham, Hogg

Cherry, Sutherland, Nel, Skinner, Crosbie/Fagerson, Redpath, Horne, Hastings

Repath may start, but he didn't look like he was at his very best last week, and I haven't seen Harris this season yet, White may be int he 23. Ashman was very good on Friday(?)

Pretty close to it for me - I'd probably put Cherry ahead of Turner for his darts.

Let's face it though, Townsend will stick with Harris and do something out of the ordinary, like, I dunno, Van der Merwe in the second row or something because he considers himself a genius.

I agree on Cherry, I really like Ashman too

I didn't deliberately pick a mostly Scotland-based team, but it worked out that way, Bennett will get his chance against Australia.

Bhatti in for Sutherland on the pine, Thompson in for Hastings and maybe McDowall or Steyn for Redpath for that first game.
Hoyland at FB?
Graham at FB?

edit, I missed Ollie Smith's name on the team sheet, he could start against Oz

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:53 pm First choice from that would be something like

Schoey, Turner, Fagerson, Cummings, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Watson, Dempsey

Price, Kinghorn, vdMerwe, Tuipulotu, Bennett, Graham, Hogg

Cherry, Sutherland, Nel, Skinner, Crosbie/Fagerson, Redpath, Horne, Hastings

Repath may start, but he didn't look like he was at his very best last week, and I haven't seen Harris this season yet, White may be int he 23. Ashman was very good on Friday(?)

Skinner in for Gilchrist
Hastings in for Kinghorn
Not sure Price deserves a start on current form
I’d probably still risk Redpath over Tuipolotu

No Hutchinson in the squad then, I know Scotland have a few options at centre but it still seems ridiculous to me. Good for Saints though so I shouldn't moan too much.

Meh.

I don’t have a major issue with Dempsey. He’s made a commitment to Glasgow, he is eligible, and if John Allan and Tiaan Strauss can change countries, I don’t see why he can’t. Gives us another option, which is a definite plus.

No Russell, which as I said, doesn’t impress me a lot. If you have pots of good players, you can afford to leave good ones out. That is not where we are.

No Hutch - he seems to be a player who never gets a fair crack of the whip. No Richardson - odd given the Darge injury? No Bradbury.

No other surprises - no Dingwall, no Roebuck, no Fin Smith. Can’t make them opt for us, but shame that we haven’t managed to secure any of them.

Oxbow wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:50 pm No Hutchinson in the squad then, I know Scotland have a few options at centre but it still seems ridiculous to me. Good for Saints though so I shouldn't moan too much.

Seems like that for most of us as well

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:51 pm Meh.

I don’t have a major issue with Dempsey. He’s made a commitment to Glasgow, he is eligible, and if John Allan and Tiaan Strauss can change countries, I don’t see why he can’t. Gives us another option, which is a definite plus.

No Russell, which as I said, doesn’t impress me a lot. If you have pots of good players, you can afford to leave good ones out. That is not where we are.

No Hutch - he seems to be a player who never gets a fair crack of the whip. No Richardson - odd given the Darge injury? No Bradbury.

No other surprises - no Dingwall, no Roebuck, no Fin Smith. Can’t make them opt for us, but shame that we haven’t managed to secure any of them.

Good, can't say I'm unhappy with that

Has Fin Smith played a game this season yet? Dingwall has been in and around the England squad over the last 12 months too.

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:08 pm Has Fin Smith played a game this season yet? Dingwall has been in and around the England squad over the last 12 months too.

Don’t think Smith has and only joined Saints full time last week
Dingwall has made the last 2 training squads but is surplus to Eddiots requirements again

Mark Palmer is nae happy.

(Worth remembering Palmer is the journalist the Russell camp do interviews with, for anyone still of the mind that this is Russell's decision).

I have a really unpleasant feeling that this is entirely Toony’s ego.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:14 pm

Mark Palmer is nae happy.

(Worth remembering Palmer is the journalist the Russell camp do interviews with, for anyone still of the mind that this is Russell's decision).

He's also not wrong. Thomson whilst promising can't be a form selection over Finn.

It will be interesting to see if Price gets any senior leadership role because if Finn and Hoggy are being punished then Price should be too as a senior player.

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:12 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:14 pm

Mark Palmer is nae happy.

(Worth remembering Palmer is the journalist the Russell camp do interviews with, for anyone still of the mind that this is Russell's decision).

He's also not wrong. Thomson whilst promising can't be a form selection over Finn.

It will be interesting to see if Price gets any senior leadership role because if Finn and Hoggy are being punished then Price should be too as a senior player.

Thompson is only there because Hastings isn't available for the Aus game and who is better Thompson or Savala though. It's not a Thompson or Russell it's a Hastings/Kinghorn or Russell.

I also think if the plan is for Kinghorn to be starter it's probably better Russell isn't in the squad. We know that Russell isn't a happy camper at times.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:32 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:12 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:14 pm

Mark Palmer is nae happy.

(Worth remembering Palmer is the journalist the Russell camp do interviews with, for anyone still of the mind that this is Russell's decision).

He's also not wrong. Thomson whilst promising can't be a form selection over Finn.

It will be interesting to see if Price gets any senior leadership role because if Finn and Hoggy are being punished then Price should be too as a senior player.

Thompson is only there because Hastings isn't available for the Aus game and who is better Thompson or Savala though. It's not a Thompson or Russell it's a Hastings/Kinghorn or Russell.

I also think if the plan is for Kinghorn to be starter it's probably better Russell isn't in the squad. We know that Russell isn't a happy camper at times.

I am sure they've called up players only for the 1st game before. Sykes and others for Tonga game?

It is daft for Townsend to talk about form then stick Thompson in, that's before the risk given him only having played 21 minutes this season. He will be hugely undercooked. I'm not so sure Lang off the bench wouldn't be a better option in this exact scenario. It is a big ask for him to play these internationals even if just the 1st one.

What do we see as a good set of AIs? Min two wins but competitive in all?

Three losses and poor performances- worrying and four losses catastrophic?

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:26 pm What do we see as a good set of AIs? Min two wins but competitive in all?

Three losses and poor performances- worrying and four losses catastrophic?

Three losses and good performances is worrying! We should beat Argentina at home. So two wins is par.

Four losses and Russell dropped is Townsend's position is untenable levels of catastrophic. I don't see it though, quite confident of three wins with the loss to NZ and Kinghorn playing well every game.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:00 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:26 pm What do we see as a good set of AIs? Min two wins but competitive in all?

Three losses and poor performances- worrying and four losses catastrophic?

Three losses and good performances is worrying! We should beat Argentina at home. So two wins is par.

Four losses and Russell dropped is Townsend's position is untenable levels of catastrophic. I don't see it though, quite confident of three wins with the loss to NZ and Kinghorn playing well every game.

Has to be a minimum of 2 wins and giving NZ a game. I think it’s largely irrelevant for the WC mind you as none of the teams we are playing are a similar test to our group there.

Would like us to come out the other end having settled on some combinations, or at least close, in the 2nd row, back row and centres. I think the half back combinations will continue to change for a while yet much as I’d like to see White and Hastings given a run.

I’d be pretty devastated if we not only lose 3 of them, but manage to lose them all from a winning position

I am not a ‘sack the coach’ type. But I am really struggling to see the non-selection of Russell as anything other than a fit of pique by Townsend, and I’m hoping that Russell will be open to selection by whoever takes over after our inevitable failure at the RWC.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:56 pm I am not a ‘sack the coach’ type. But I am really struggling to see the non-selection of Russell as anything other than a fit of pique by Townsend, and I’m hoping that Russell will be open to selection by whoever takes over after our inevitable failure at the RWC.

To be fair, Fin has been a pain in the arse for a few years now so it’s not really a fit of pique. I have a bit of sympathy for Toony, he has a whole team to look after and there must come a time when he just feels enough is enough

Just gonna leave this here

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:04 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:56 pm I am not a ‘sack the coach’ type. But I am really struggling to see the non-selection of Russell as anything other than a fit of pique by Townsend, and I’m hoping that Russell will be open to selection by whoever takes over after our inevitable failure at the RWC.

To be fair, Fin has been a pain in the arse for a few years now so it’s not really a fit of pique. I have a bit of sympathy for Toony, he has a whole team to look after and there must come a time when he just feels enough is enough

I don't believe that all the fault is on Finn's side. Some of it, certainly, but I think Toony has just as large an ego and has more or less zero tolerance for being challenged. The best coaches find a way to work with their temperamental players. Toony would rather do without them, and Scotland simply aren't blessed with the resources to do that.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:25 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:04 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:56 pm I am not a ‘sack the coach’ type. But I am really struggling to see the non-selection of Russell as anything other than a fit of pique by Townsend, and I’m hoping that Russell will be open to selection by whoever takes over after our inevitable failure at the RWC.

To be fair, Fin has been a pain in the arse for a few years now so it’s not really a fit of pique. I have a bit of sympathy for Toony, he has a whole team to look after and there must come a time when he just feels enough is enough

I don't believe that all the fault is on Finn's side. Some of it, certainly, but I think Toony has just as large an ego and has more or less zero tolerance for being challenged. The best coaches find a way to work with their temperamental players. Toony would rather do without them, and Scotland simply aren't blessed with the resources to do that.

I don't think that's fair. A National coach has to deal with maybe ~50 players, & the player just has to deal with one coach.

How/Why is a coach expected to change all their plans for one prick who puts their situation ahead of everyone elses ?

Sure coaches can have egos that can be a problem; but they're the ones who'll be sacked if the plan fails, & history shows, the players will never be held to account for their performances, long term.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:25 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:04 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:56 pm I am not a ‘sack the coach’ type. But I am really struggling to see the non-selection of Russell as anything other than a fit of pique by Townsend, and I’m hoping that Russell will be open to selection by whoever takes over after our inevitable failure at the RWC.

To be fair, Fin has been a pain in the arse for a few years now so it’s not really a fit of pique. I have a bit of sympathy for Toony, he has a whole team to look after and there must come a time when he just feels enough is enough

I don't believe that all the fault is on Finn's side. Some of it, certainly, but I think Toony has just as large an ego and has more or less zero tolerance for being challenged. The best coaches find a way to work with their temperamental players. Toony would rather do without them, and Scotland simply aren't blessed with the resources to do that.

I think that’s unfair as well, he has been challenged publicly on several occasions now and then usuallly found a way to bring him back in.

Just off the top off my head:

After the 31-31 game
Fin walking out then doing an interview
His interview a couple of weeks back where he said they had argued
The piss up after Italy

I love Fin, I love watching him, that is how rugby should be played. But I can absolutely see it from Toonys side that there has to come a point where enough is enough as fishfoodie says above

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:04 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:56 pm I am not a ‘sack the coach’ type. But I am really struggling to see the non-selection of Russell as anything other than a fit of pique by Townsend, and I’m hoping that Russell will be open to selection by whoever takes over after our inevitable failure at the RWC.

To be fair, Fin has been a pain in the arse for a few years now so it’s not really a fit of pique. I have a bit of sympathy for Toony, he has a whole team to look after and there must come a time when he just feels enough is enough

It's still not a great situation.

One thing is that it has taken the attention away from the other odd selections. No Bradbury or Richardson? Stafford McDowall ahead of Hutchinson, Lang and Dean?

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:05 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:25 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:04 pm

To be fair, Fin has been a pain in the arse for a few years now so it’s not really a fit of pique. I have a bit of sympathy for Toony, he has a whole team to look after and there must come a time when he just feels enough is enough

I don't believe that all the fault is on Finn's side. Some of it, certainly, but I think Toony has just as large an ego and has more or less zero tolerance for being challenged. The best coaches find a way to work with their temperamental players. Toony would rather do without them, and Scotland simply aren't blessed with the resources to do that.

I don't think that's fair. A National coach has to deal with maybe ~50 players, & the player just has to deal with one coach.

How/Why is a coach expected to change all their plans for one prick who puts their situation ahead of everyone elses ?

Sure coaches can have egos that can be a problem; but they're the ones who'll be sacked if the plan fails, & history shows, the players will never be held to account for their performances, long term.

Maybe it’s not fair. But I’m not feeling fair. I’m pissed off. It’s the paying public who are being short-changed over this. We all want a win v NZ now Ireland have broken their hoodoo. The only way that is ever going to happen is if we put out our very best players and they all have the game of their lives, while NZ underperform. We didn’t have much of a chance, but now we have none at all. The same applies to the RWC.

robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:03 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:04 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:56 pm I am not a ‘sack the coach’ type. But I am really struggling to see the non-selection of Russell as anything other than a fit of pique by Townsend, and I’m hoping that Russell will be open to selection by whoever takes over after our inevitable failure at the RWC.

To be fair, Fin has been a pain in the arse for a few years now so it’s not really a fit of pique. I have a bit of sympathy for Toony, he has a whole team to look after and there must come a time when he just feels enough is enough

It's still not a great situation.

One thing is that it has taken the attention away from the other odd selections. No Bradbury or Richardson? Stafford McDowall ahead of Hutchinson, Lang and Dean?

McDowell isn't in there ahead of Hutchinson though. He's there for the reason Thompson is and that's the moneyspinner Vs Aus. I guess Townsend has made his decision on Dean and Lang. I guess McDowall is a bit younger than both.

Bradbury just needs to find consistency which he's never really managed. I think you know what you get from Matt Fagerson, Bayliss and Christie whereas Bradbury could be good but equally he could disappear. I am concerned re Dempsey because he wasn't ever amazing for Australia. However, his form for Glasgow week in week out has been consistently very good.

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:26 pm What do we see as a good set of AIs? Min two wins but competitive in all?

Three losses and poor performances- worrying and four losses catastrophic?

Four losses would be catastrophic, but I don't see it happening.

I had a look at the Fiji squad and I didn't see many of the truly frightening names of the recent past - Yato, Nakarawa, Nadolo etc aren't there. I don't think Radrardra has played this season yet.
Bill is there, of course.
I hope I don't eat these words, but we should be okay at home with as close to a full team as possible without Finn.

We were very close to Argentina away over the summer, it came down to a bit of a collapse in the last few minutes of the deciding test, that should never have happened. It did, so we have to make amends, home advantage will help.

Australia, we're not as badly off as I first feared with playing outside of the window - Hogg, Harris, Redpath, Johnny Gray and Sutherland have able replacements, the one concern for me is fullback (I'm not going to go into the Finn debate on this), but Smith shows promise, and perhaps Hogg is the only one who would walk straight into the team without a discussion being had.
Oz had their moments in the recent RC, I find this a difficult one to call, much will of course depend on selection.

New Zealand, can this Scottish side be the first to beat the mighty All Blacks?
Fuck it, yes we can - I'll cry into my ginger beer afterwards, but I hope we give them a real game

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:06 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:05 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:25 pm

I don't believe that all the fault is on Finn's side. Some of it, certainly, but I think Toony has just as large an ego and has more or less zero tolerance for being challenged. The best coaches find a way to work with their temperamental players. Toony would rather do without them, and Scotland simply aren't blessed with the resources to do that.

I don't think that's fair. A National coach has to deal with maybe ~50 players, & the player just has to deal with one coach.

How/Why is a coach expected to change all their plans for one prick who puts their situation ahead of everyone elses ?

Sure coaches can have egos that can be a problem; but they're the ones who'll be sacked if the plan fails, & history shows, the players will never be held to account for their performances, long term.

Maybe it’s not fair. But I’m not feeling fair. I’m pissed off. It’s the paying public who are being short-changed over this. We all want a win v NZ now Ireland have broken their hoodoo. The only way that is ever going to happen is if we put out our very best players and they all have the game of their lives, while NZ underperform. We didn’t have much of a chance, but now we have none at all. The same applies to the RWC.

There is a fair amount of revisionism going on on social media and beyond about this. When Fin is good he’s very good, but he has never been terribly consistent for Scotland and I can think of at least 3 periods where the knives were very much out for him. The year that he stormed off Hastings was superb.

I’ll say it again, I love Fin, but let’s not pretend that Scotland without him are always hopeless and can’t win anything

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:00 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:06 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:05 am

I don't think that's fair. A National coach has to deal with maybe ~50 players, & the player just has to deal with one coach.

How/Why is a coach expected to change all their plans for one prick who puts their situation ahead of everyone elses ?

Sure coaches can have egos that can be a problem; but they're the ones who'll be sacked if the plan fails, & history shows, the players will never be held to account for their performances, long term.

Maybe it’s not fair. But I’m not feeling fair. I’m pissed off. It’s the paying public who are being short-changed over this. We all want a win v NZ now Ireland have broken their hoodoo. The only way that is ever going to happen is if we put out our very best players and they all have the game of their lives, while NZ underperform. We didn’t have much of a chance, but now we have none at all. The same applies to the RWC.

There is a fair amount of revisionism going on on social media and beyond about this. When Fin is good he’s very good, but he has never been terribly consistent for Scotland and I can think of at least 3 periods where the knives were very much out for him. The year that he stormed off Hastings was superb.

I’ll say it again, I love Fin, but let’s not pretend that Scotland without him are always hopeless and can’t win anything

Oh, I know he is inconsistent and frustrating as hell. But who else do you see pulling off something outrageous to beat NZ?

Well GT thinks BK. Here's hoping!

The back row is stronger than I hoped, Sykes is injured, as is Vellacott, Hutchison, Lang & McInally. The others are away in international duty.

I can't wait to see Goosen, I hope we can get him into a half a yard of space.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:16 am The back row is stronger than I hoped, Sykes is injured, as is Vellacott, Hutchison, Lang & McInally. The others are away in international duty.

I can't wait to see Goosen, I hope we can get him into a half a yard of space.

That's not a bad team on paper and I'm pleased that we have Skinner back. Blair seems to rotate his team better than any coach we've had for a while so even with the internationals missing it doesn't look like a scratch team.

I reckon Zebre might really go for this game though, they've been only just falling short in their home games so far this season.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:16 am The back row is stronger than I hoped, Sykes is injured, as is Vellacott, Hutchison, Lang & McInally. The others are away in international duty.

I can't wait to see Goosen, I hope we can get him into a half a yard of space.

Skinner, Haining & Crosbie are in the Scotland squad, no? So presumably confirms Ritchie, Demspey/Fagerson & Mish for the back row in Australia match?

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:40 am

Skinner, Haining & Crosbie are in the Scotland squad, no? So presumably confirms Ritchie, Demspey/Fagerson & Mish for the back row in Australia match?

You'd think so, aye.

Also means Cummings and Gilcho in the second row, Skinner could still be on the pine next week

Mish took a hell of a dunt to the heid the other week, but if he's fit he starts, if not I'd have no qualms starting Ritchie, Fagerson and Dempsey

Did Glasgow and Ulster travel together to South Africa for their games? It seems a bit odd otherwise for both squads to have come down with stomach bugs simultaneously...?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:45 pm Did Glasgow and Ulster travel together to South Africa for their games? It seems a bit odd otherwise for both squads to have come down with stomach bugs simultaneously...?

Glasgow were in Durban the week before Ulster. A South African mate elsewhere tells me that seemingly both squads had been swimming in the sea.

I won't go into the detail he did, but seemingly it's an open toilet